İlkay Gündoğan

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Has anyone any knowledge of the Express or Star EVER calling one right? I have been following the last few summer transfer windows religiously and I have never seen either break a story and that story then proceed to be true. I'd like to see them, the sun and the metro banned. The Mail is the only tabloid that seems to have connected journalists.

I used to be a journalist and know a few guys from Uni who've gone on to be football writers. I can confirm 100% that both those papers don't even bother to try and find legit sources. They literally call up the journo up, tell them which club or player they'd like a story on (usually, it's one of the big clubs) and roughly how many words they need, and that's the whole process right there.

Given their respective records I think we all knew that anyway. You'd think they'd call a few more right just by pure chance than they actually manage to do.
 
I used to be a journalist and know a few guys from Uni who've gone on to be football writers. I can confirm 100% that both those papers don't even bother to try and find legit sources. They literally call up the journo up, tell them which club or player they'd like a story on (usually, it's one of the big clubs) and roughly how many words they need, and that's the whole process right there.

Given their respective records I think we all knew that anyway. You'd think they'd call a few more right just by pure chance than they actually manage to do.
Thought as much. I know a job is a job but i must say that that form of journalism is a pretty pathetic existence.
 
Has anyone any knowledge of the Express or Star EVER calling one right? I have been following the last few summer transfer windows religiously and I have never seen either break a story and that story then proceed to be true. I'd like to see them, the sun and the metro banned. The Mail is the only tabloid that seems to have connected journalists.
What about the mirror, too?
 
I used to be a journalist and know a few guys from Uni who've gone on to be football writers. I can confirm 100% that both those papers don't even bother to try and find legit sources. They literally call up the journo up, tell them which club or player they'd like a story on (usually, it's one of the big clubs) and roughly how many words they need, and that's the whole process right there.

Given their respective records I think we all knew that anyway. You'd think they'd call a few more right just by pure chance than they actually manage to do.

Take it from me agents get stories in the papers by phoning journalists and saying this clubs enquired about such and such just to give the appearance of an in demand player and also free advertisement that this player could be open to an offer or is not happy here etc. that's how it works although there is times where the papers just speculate to sell papers.
 
SPORT saying his transfer to Barca could be officially announced today. This one's dead in the water.
 
SPORT saying his transfer to Barca could be officially announced today. This one's dead in the water.

I don't see them talking about it on Barca Forum yet. Anyone got the link directly from SPORT?
 
I don't see them talking about it on Barca Forum yet. Anyone got the link directly from SPORT?
I got it from the Twitter thread but the official SPORT site isn't saying anything new about Gundogan other than Pogba may also be an option for Barca.
 
Nothing yet, it's just that the board is resigning in a couple of hours, so the transfer talks will definitely be widespread. The Sport article says that we have agreed with Gundogan, but the main target is actually Pogba. So I doubt they will announce anything today.
 
So If things are to be believed Bayern wouldn't pay him what he wanted so he has agreed with Barca, but they aren't sure and want Pogba instead, and we are there with our offer waiting like a puppy to see if Barca whom he can't actually play with for four months decide to follow it through.

I might be in the minority but I don't really want to be third choice, so he can get lost now for me if things go tits up with Barca, other players out there.
 
So If things are to be believed Bayern wouldn't pay him what he wanted so he has agreed with Barca, but they aren't sure and want Pogba instead, and we are there with our offer waiting like a puppy to see if Barca whom he can't actually play with for four months decide to follow it through.

I might be in the minority but I don't really want to be third choice, so he can get lost now for me if things go tits up with Barca, other players out there.


Let's be realistic here, I don't think there are many players out there (especially not among the foreign ones) who would join United if Barca and/or Bayern (or Real for that matter) offered equal terms - at least at the moment.
 
So If things are to be believed Bayern wouldn't pay him what he wanted so he has agreed with Barca, but they aren't sure and want Pogba instead, and we are there with our offer waiting like a puppy to see if Barca whom he can't actually play with for four months decide to follow it through.

I might be in the minority but I don't really want to be third choice, so he can get lost now for me if things go tits up with Barca, other players out there.
United are still a work in progress this season whereas Bayern and Barca are much more stable and have got good teams that he can jump into and win trophies immediately. It's not nice that we are in this back seat position but we have to be realistic and acknowledge our status in the game right now. So unless it is a Dutch player or an English player, we probably aren't going to have much to persuade them to come.
 
United are still a work in progress this season whereas Bayern and Barca are much more stable and have got good teams that he can jump into and win trophies immediately. It's not nice that we are in this back seat position but we have to be realistic and acknowledge our status in the game right now. So unless it is a Dutch player or an English player, we probably aren't going to have much to persuade them to come.

If the player have a little bit of dignity, he chooses a club that actually wants him.
 
I don't believe he is our first choice, Pogba and Vidal would be infront of him imo, maybe even Nainggolan.
 
If the player have a little bit of dignity, he chooses a club that actually wants him.

So you think clubs pay €15-30m in transfer fees and €6-12m p.a. in wages for a player they actually don't want?
 
Let's be realistic here, I don't think there are many players out there (especially not among the foreign ones) who would join United if Barca and/or Bayern (or Real for that matter) offered equal terms - at least at the moment.

I won't count Bayern in that list. Luckily for Bayern, all the top German talents like to go there and Germany is overflowing with talent right now. In terms of players from a different nationality, we have as good a chance as Bayern.
 
I won't count Bayern in that list. Luckily for Bayern, all the top German talents like to go there and Germany is overflowing with talent right now. In terms of players from a different nationality, we have as good a chance as Bayern.

In terms of recent success in the CL Bayern are pretty much the number two in Europe and far ahead of any other team - aside from Real. They also have a coaching icon in pep, I think with most players that counts for something.
 
United are still a work in progress this season whereas Bayern and Barca are much more stable and have got good teams that he can jump into and win trophies immediately. It's not nice that we are in this back seat position but we have to be realistic and acknowledge our status in the game right now. So unless it is a Dutch player or an English player, we probably aren't going to have much to persuade them to come.

I'd be far more understanding on this if it was a player like Pogba, or Vidal, a real top draw player that can take us to the next level.

But for me Gundagun is a risk, and a big one at that, we could well have put our cards on the table early and said we'll pay him well and take the risk, but then some close to him allegedly tells a German paper it's done with united to garner interest from other clubs, And 2 months on we're still waiting.

No I don't like it and I never will.
 
So you think clubs pay €15-30m in transfer fees and €6-12m p.a. in wages for a player they actually don't want?

I think that a player like Gundogan should sign for a club who wants him more than anyone else, a club who doesn't see him as second or third option.
 
In terms of recent success in the CL Bayern are pretty much the number two in Europe and far ahead of any other team aside from Real and they have a coaching icon in pep, I think with most players that counts for something.
We were far, far better than Real when we had Ronaldo and even then we lost him to Real. Success is great but pedigree of teams along with history and money is equally important. Else players would have been rushing to join Dortmund over Bayern 3 seasons back when they won back to back Bundesliga. For me Bayern and United are on equal footing notwithstanding the recent success of Bayern. Bayern get the best German players and best ones who ply their trade in Germany. That is absolutely true. For other players from the continent, I think United can rival Bayern.
 
We were far, far better than Real when we had Ronaldo and even then we lost him to Real. Success is great but pedigree of teams along with history and money is equally important. Else players would have been rushing to join Dortmund over Bayern 3 seasons back when they won back to back Bundesliga. For me Bayern and United are on equal footing notwithstanding the recent success of Bayern. Bayern get the best German players and best ones who ply their trade in Germany. That is absolutely true. For other players from the continent, I think United can rival Bayern.

Real are a special case. They are the most prestigious club in the world and thus defy some of football's logic.
Dortmund's success is very recent, they basically only had one truly great CL season and they never even got close to the top in terms of finances, so I don't know why you chose to compare them to a club like Bayern that's been around the top for decades.
Sure history and money are probably important factors for most players, but I have a hard time believing that they outweight title chances for most players.

And why should Bayern have some kind of special advantage when it comes to signing Bundesliga foreigners? The times where Bundesliga players didn't attract any interest from English/Spanish/Italian clubs or simply got overlooked have been over for a while now.

I think that a player like Gundogan should sign for a club who wants him more than anyone else, a club who doesn't see him as second or third option.

Again: agreeing to pay a total of like €50m for a player implies a healthy amount of trust towards a player to me. If someone is not the best player in the world chances are that there will always be a one or two players who club's would rather sign if they could, but that doesn't mean they won't rely on him once the deal is finalized.


I'd be far more understanding on this if it was a player like Pogba, or Vidal, a real top draw player that can take us to the next level.

But for me Gundagun is a risk, and a big one at that, we could well have put our cards on the table early and said we'll pay him well and take the risk, but then some close to him allegedly tells a German paper it's done with united to garner interest from other clubs, And 2 months on we're still waiting.

No I don't like it and I never will.

Oh yeah, Gündogan definitly is not a sure thing. Clubs basically gamble on him regaining his old form, because the past season's Gündogan was nowhere near top level and personally I'm a bit surprised that clubs like Barca and Bayern are supposedly showing serious interest.




Good for them. That status didn't stop us from losing Ronaldo and doubt it will do anything for them unless you are German.

Real have a special standing in football, they can probably turn almost any player's head, but that doesn't really translate to any other club and in that aspect United is probably a lot more in Bayern's tier than in Real's.
I don't really get why so many people seem convinced that recent success and chances to win trophies don't mean anything to players.
 
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In terms of recent success in the CL Bayern are pretty much the number two in Europe and far ahead of any other team - aside from Real. They also have a coaching icon in pep, I think with most players that counts for something.

Good for them. That status didn't stop us from losing Ronaldo and doubt it will do anything for them unless you are German.
 
Still beleive we are currently his most likely destination.
 
Again: agreeing to pay a total of like €50m for a player implies a healthy amount of trust towards a player to me. If someone is not the best player in the world chances are that there will always be a one or two players who club's would rather sign if they could, but that doesn't mean they won't rely on him once the deal is finalized.

He will still be a second choice, they aren't finalizing the deal because they think that Pogba is better, if Gundogan is okay with that it's fine, but in my opinion a player like him should have a higher opinion of himself.
 
Sport in Spain are about as credible as The Express.....I'm sure we still have a chance for this guy and he would be awesome but I don't doubt that Barca would be his first choice if they are willing to pay him what we are
 
He will still be a second choice, they aren't finalizing the deal because they think that Pogba is better, if Gundogan is okay with that it's fine, but in my opinion a player like him should have a higher opinion of himself.

And what club would sign Gündogan (especially in his current state) if they could pick Pogba (or any CM in the world) instead?
 
And what club would sign Gündogan (especially in his current state) if they could pick Pogba (or any CM in the world) instead?

The other clubs who made him an offer?
 
The other clubs who made him an offer?

And what makes you think that they expect to be able to sign Pogba if they wanted to?

Do you think van Gaal is like: "oh yeah Pogba is younger and actually performed really well over the past couple of seasons, but I'd rather have that guy who was injured for a whole season and then was mediocre at best the following one".
 
And what makes you think that they expect to be able to sign Pogba if they wanted to?

What makes you think that they don't expect to be able to sign Pogba, if they try?

The difference here is that Barcelona negociated with both, Pogba rejected them, maybe temporarily, and Gundogan didn't, but instead of signing Gundogan they stalled the negotiations and publicly claimed that Pogba was their first choice.
For me it's as if a player agree to join a club but tell them to wait in case an other club want to sign him.
 
Real are a special case. They are the most prestigious club in the world and thus defy some of football's logic.
Dortmund's success is very recent, they basically only had one truly great CL season and they never even got close to the top in terms of finances, so I don't know why you chose to compare them to a club like Bayern that's been around the top for decades.
Sure history and money are probably important factors for most players, but I have a hard time believing that they outweight title chances for most players.

And why should Bayern have some kind of special advantage when it comes to signing Bundesliga foreigners? The times where Bundesliga players didn't attract any interest from English/Spanish/Italian clubs or simply got overlooked have been over for a while now.



Again: agreeing to pay a total of like €50m for a player implies a healthy amount of trust towards a player to me. If someone is not the best player in the world chances are that there will always be a one or two players who club's would rather sign if they could, but that doesn't mean they won't rely on him once the deal is finalized.




Oh yeah, Gündogan definitly is not a sure thing. Clubs basically gamble on him regaining his old form, because the past season's Gündogan was nowhere near top level and personally I'm a bit surprised that clubs like Barca and Bayern are supposedly showing serious interest.






Real have a special standing in football, they can probably turn almost any player's head, but that doesn't really translate to any other club and in that aspect United is probably a lot more in Bayern's tier than in Real's.
I don't really get why so many people seem convinced that recent success and chances to win trophies don't mean anything to players.

Or you forgetting the fact they actually won the CL in 1997???
 
Real are a special case. They are the most prestigious club in the world and thus defy some of football's logic.
Dortmund's success is very recent, they basically only had one truly great CL season and they never even got close to the top in terms of finances, so I don't know why you chose to compare them to a club like Bayern that's been around the top for decades.
Sure history and money are probably important factors for most players, but I have a hard time believing that they outweight title chances for most players.

And why should Bayern have some kind of special advantage when it comes to signing Bundesliga foreigners? The times where Bundesliga players didn't attract any interest from English/Spanish/Italian clubs or simply got overlooked have been over for a while now.
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Bayern will obviously have better chances of signing players from other Bundesliga teams mainly because many players are settled in the Bundesliga and many have families settled there. It is similar in the EPL. If a young non-English player plying his trade in the EPL for a while is available, United will have a better chance of getting him than Bayern. Does not prove that United will have a bigger pull than Bayern.

Anyway, it is difficult to prove either way. But Real and Barca are special cases and then Bayern and United are at a similar playing level.
 
Bayern will obviously have better chances of signing players from other Bundesliga teams mainly because many players are settled in the Bundesliga and many have families settled there. It is similar in the EPL. If a young non-English player plying his trade in the EPL for a while is available, United will have a better chance of getting him than Bayern. Does not prove that United will have a bigger pull than Bayern.

Anyway, it is difficult to prove either way. But Real and Barca are special cases and then Bayern and United are at a similar playing level.
Madrid were only a special case since the turn of the millennium, even then their specialness consisted of spending obscene amounts of money on players that no other side would match.
Who were Barca pre Ronaldinho? Where were all the players clammering to play for them?
They were big sides and all, but this reputation for being the destination that all players strive to play for is a modern notion that will soon end.
It won't last because it can't last. Look at Madrid. From signing the likes of Zidane and Ronaldo they are now signing their stars from The likes of Spurs / Monaco / Bremen / Lyon / Celta Vigo / Porto etc. The step up clubs. Yet they still have this reputation as a club who takes any player they want regardless of who they play for.
There are players like DDG but that has personal complications that sets it apart but It's not as if they're walking in and saying we will have Hazard / Pogba / Muller / Vidal and name your price.
How many big money established players have they signed from other major clubs that they're stolen away? Kross?
The lustre of their pre Ronaldo era shone a little less due to the English and Barca domination. They come into prominence yet again when the English are at their lowest ebb.
My theory for that is the Premiership doesn't necessarily sign the best in the world. Our sides won't go out and sign Naymar from Barca for example. Our sides would be the clubs rivalling Madrid for the James or Varanes, the players who are ready to reach that top tier.
The English have been atrocious in this regard which has held us back and allowed Madrid to have the market to themselves. It's not as if I'm saying United will stop this single handedly, but it's the English top 4. Not only is it 4 other rivals for the signature, it's rivals that can pick them up earlier with more guarentees than Madrid could offer.
There's examples of our sides dropping the ball. Varane was ours until we confused him with the Jones signing. Modric belonged to Chelsea until Levy interfered. Suarez was Arsenal bound before they refused to honour the buy out clause. United turned down James when he was on trial. Bale was ours until he was guarenteed game time at Spurs.
That's Madrid inadvertently profiting off inexplicable sloppiness. Would they have persued these players if they already made the step up like they have or would they have looked elsewhere, for example would Herrera be a Madrid player right now if Modric opted for Chelsea? Would they have signed Silva if Bayern wanted Ozil?
Yet in these instances, whoever they did sign would be paraded as the best in their position and always getting who they wanted.
 
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