İlkay Gündoğan

[Chaky_Best]

If he prefers being a substitute at Barca rather than an important player for us, it means how far Barca, as a club, is far above us.

He won’t play, and only train for six months, and he prefers that…

In my opinion, it would be very difficult for him to start at Barca, even if he can potentially play the three roles in their midfield. The defensive one, Busquets, the dynamic one, Rakitic, the offensive one, Iniesta.

 

[NJM78]

If he prefers being a substitute at Barca rather than an important player for us, it means how far Barca, as a club, is far above us.

He won’t play, and only train for six months, and he prefers that…

In my opinion, it would be very difficult for him to start at Barca, even if he can potentially play the three roles in their midfield. The defensive one, Busquets, the dynamic one, Rakitic, the offensive one, Iniesta.

Second that, maybe his playboy wag would prefer to prance around Barcelona in a bikini rather than Manchester which is understandable but as far as his career is concerned surely its not a good move with the stiff competition for a starting place on top of missing 6 months more football it makes no sense.

 

[Cro]

You are.

I probably am.

 

[louvega]

If he prefers being a substitute at Barca rather than an important player for us, it means how far Barca, as a club, is far above us.

He won’t play, and only train for six months, and he prefers that…

In my opinion, it would be very difficult for him to start at Barca, even if he can potentially play the three roles in their midfield. The defensive one, Busquets, the dynamic one, Rakitic, the offensive one, Iniesta.

I guess he would take Iniesta's place in the starting XI. He is a bit old and hasn't had the best of seasons and his offensive role is very limited in Luis Enrique's tactics.

 

[Striker10]

It would be great weekend if it happens. Wasnt it that Memphis deal was confirmed on weekend too?

It's been so long ago now, can't remember

 

[2 man midfield]

Can't see him wanting to go to Barcelona to just wander around the training ground. He's just come back from over a year out, the last thing he wants to do is sit out another 6 months.

Real and Bayern are our main rivals imo, and both have better options already.

 

[NJM78]

I guess he would take Iniesta's place in the starting XI. He is a bit old and hasn't had the best of seasons and his offensive role is very limited in Luis Enrique's tactics.

I don't think Iniesta was that bad watching La Liga weekly and had better offensive stats overall than Gundogan (although in a much better team). I think he has a good 2-3 years left at the top imo but yeah I would say he is more likely to replace him than Rakatic.
Just seems odd as someone who hasn't played for 6 months or so would be very unfit, it would then take a further month or so of playing before getting anywhere near the desired match fitness so I would only see him being very much used as a sub for remainder of the season. Hardly a good career move if you fancy yourself featuring for Germany in Euro 2016 - he already missed the WC through injury when looked nailed on to star for them pre injury.

If Pogba signs for Barca next summer who's place will he take in your opinion should they also sign Gundogan?

 

[Ananke]

If pogba goes to barca, surely we're favourites for gundogan?

Would seem a bit mental to buy both with the midfielders they have already :S.

 

[louvega]

If Pogba signs for Barca next summer who's place will he take in your opinion should they also sign Gundogan?

It's all speculation with the transfer ban but I guess only one of the two would come.

 

[ottosec]

He will probably announce his next club after the cup final. I think we will get him.

 

[JPRouve]

If pogba goes to barca, surely we're favourites for gundogan?

Would seem a bit mental to buy both with the midfielders they have already :S.

I they sign both, we should take Rafinha.

 

[ivaldo]

I don't think he is the player we need, imo we need a strong box-to-box player like Vidal and a replacement for Carrick in the holding midfielder position.

Well how the hell do you categorize Gundogan then?!

 

[stepic]

It's been so long ago now, can't remember

nah it was a weekday. i remember being at work when i saw it announced on bbc

 

[bucky]

Well how the hell do you categorize Gundogan then?!

He's more of a creative box-to-box midfielder who controls the game with his passing and excels at dribbling, whereas Vidal is more of a combative and goal-scoring midfielder.

 

[NJM78]

He's more of a creative box-to-box midfielder who controls the game with his passing and excels at dribbling, whereas Vidal is more of a combative and goal-scoring midfielder.

I wouldn't turn down Vidal but I think the Gundogan type is more needed. Herrera with more freedom to roam will hit double figures next season. He just needs legs in there with him which Gundogan would provide. With Carrick or hopefully Schweinsteiger behind them both that would be perfect combination for me.

 

[ravi2]

He will probably announce his next club after the cup final. I think we will get him.

I agree, I think he is already ours and he is waiting till the Cup final before announcing it.
Either Gundogan, Modric or Verratti would be ideal for our midfield with Gundogan being the most attainable at the moment.

I do not see him signing for Barca.

 

[ravi2]

He's more of a creative box-to-box midfielder who controls the game with his passing and excels at dribbling, whereas Vidal is more of a combative and goal-scoring midfielder.

I wouldn't turn down Vidal but I think the Gundogan type is more needed. Herrera with more freedom to roam will hit double figures next season. He just needs legs in there with him which Gundogan would provide. With Carrick or hopefully Schweinsteiger behind them both that would be perfect combination for me.

Agreed, Gundogan is ideal for us because he can act as a CM or CDM comfortably, which means that Carrick wouldnt have to be relied upon so much by us. He was my #1 CM target after Modric when they were both on our radar a few years ago.

 

[bucky]

Agreed, Gundogan is ideal for us because he can act as a CM or CDM comfortably, which means that Carrick wouldnt have to be relied upon so much by us. He was my #1 CM target after Modric when they were both on our radar a few years ago.

I didn't say any of that and don't want anything to do with it! Half serious.

 

[ravi2]

I didn't say any of that and don't want anything to do with it! Half serious.

Thats ok. I said it and it is true, Gundogan can play the #6 or #8 easily.... what do you find objectionable about that?

 

[bucky]

Thats ok. I said it and it is true, Gundogan can play the #6 or #8 easily.... what do you find objectionable about that?

For one, he isn't a holding midfielder or a Carrick replacement. I think we can do better than him and I'd actually prefer Vidal to him for example. And you missed the white text apparently.

 

[ravi2]

For one, he isn't a holding midfielder or a Carrick replacement. I think we can do better than him and I'd actually prefer Vidal to him for example. And you missed the white text apparently.

Oh sorry man, at work I can barely see white text.
I still think Gundogan can play that role easily if Carrick is out.

Vidal is more box to box than CDM IMO....all signs point to Juve selling Pogba this summer, I dont think they would let Vidal and Pogba go at the same time would they?

 

[bucky]

Oh sorry man, at work I can barely see white text.
I still think Gundogan can play that role easily if Carrick is out.

Vidal is more box to box than CDM IMO....all signs point to Juve selling Pogba this summer, I dont think they would let Vidal and Pogba go at the same time would they?

No big deal. You are probably right, hard to imagine that Juventus will sell both. He was just an example of a player I'd rather have than Gündogan.

 

[ivaldo]

Interesting when people say he can't play the Carrick role, what role did Carrick play when he first joined us from Spurs?

 

[Dante]

Pirlo, Schweinsteiger and Scholes all started out higher up the pitch. But their intelligence and passing range made them perfect for a dlp role. Cazorla, Mordic and Nasri have adapted well to that role too, on occasion.

It's not like Gundogan would have to learn anything new. He'd just have to shift his priorities a little bit. In a possession based system, the anchoring midfielder has more of the ball than the anyone else. I think he'd love it. If he's lost some mobility, he may not have any other choice.

 

[Anderson18]

Interesting when people say he can't play the Carrick role, what role did Carrick play when he first joined us from Spurs?

Exactly! At his best he reminds me of a better version of the 06-08 Carrick

 

[Redguern]

....He was apparently in the crowd for Barca's last La Liga game too

... maybe his playboy wag would prefer to prance around Barcelona in a bikini rather than Manchester ...

I was at the Barca game this weekend when they were collecting La Liga trophy and saying goodbye to Xavi - the atmosphere was electric.

Barca is also a fantastic city.

I have loved United since a kid, best part of 40 years, but I can certainly see why someone would choose the Catalans over us.

Would still love the German Springer to sign for us though! Here boy !!

 

[Devil may care]

No big deal. You are probably right, hard to imagine that Juventus will sell both. He was just an example of a player I'd rather have than Gündogan.

Just wondering, did you rate Gundogan before his injury?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yes he has, especially when Dortmund turned their season around

Cheers.

He was my ideal midfield signing a few years back. If he's getting back to his old level, then I hope this happens. As far as playmaking from central midfield he's got the lot, and has got all the tools to be perfect for our style too.

 

[JPRouve]

Interesting when people say he can't play the Carrick role, what role did Carrick play when he first joined us from Spurs?

No one said that he will never be able to play that role, what we are saying is that he isn't able to play that role today, the 28th May. In the future he should be able to play there, but he will need to progress a lot in term of positioning and anticipation.

 

[ivaldo]

No one said that he will never be able to play that role, what we are saying is that he isn't able to play that role today, the 28th May. In the future he should be able to play there, but he will need to progress a lot in term of positioning and anticipation.

Why not? Hes a very intelligent footballer and he has everything about his game now to play there right now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If we buy him it will be for playmaking and running the midfield. He won't be bought for covering for the defence. He's potentially a top player. Doesn't really matter if he's different to carrick.

 

[JPRouve]

Why not? Hes a very intelligent footballer and he has everything about his game now to play there right now.

Time, you don't become a deep lying playmaker overnight, you have to do it and gain experience in that position. It took him more than a year to become a #8.

Edit: Gundogan at the moment lacks the three most important aspects of the role:
- The positioning
- The defensive instinct or nous
- The capacity to analyze the entire game of the team or being a "manager" on the field.

Yes, there his nothing that in theory will prevent him from learning that, but there is also nothing who guarantees that he will learn that.
What we do know is that, he has been a world class attacking #8 and that he is very good at it today.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Why not? Hes a very intelligent footballer and he has everything about his game now to play there right now.

Gundogan has always been better while going forward and not while defending. He puts himself about, tries to win the ball but his defensive positioning is bad. His type of defending is what you would expect from someone like Modric.

 

[Dante]

There were a few games towards the end of Modric's Tottenham career when he was brilliant playing as an anchoring midfielder. He ran the show against Chelsea in one match.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I love the guy, at his best his elegance on the ball and his vision are very very impressive. If he's getting back to that level and the medical team are happy then I'd sign him in a second

 

[ivaldo]

Time, you don't become a deep lying playmaker overnight, you have to do it and gain experience in that position. It took him more than a year to become a #8.

Edit: Gundogan at the moment lacks the three most important aspects of the role:
- The positioning
- The defensive instinct or nous
- The capacity to analyze the entire game of the team or being a "manager" on the field.

Yes, there his nothing that in theory will prevent him from learning that, but there is also nothing who guarantees that he will learn that.
What we do know is that, he has been a world class attacking #8 and that he is very good at it today.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree, he has the defensive capabilities its just not as noticeable because he hasn't needed to be as disciplined, much like Modric and Carrick were. I tend to take more stock in a players intelligence, you can clearly see he understands the game and there's no reason why he can't convert to a defensive midfielder.

We don't need an immediate replacement for Carrick anyway, he's still got another season in him at the top level and Blind (with the addition of Gundogan) are more than capable of deputising for him.

 

[bucky]

Just wondering, did you rate Gundogan before his injury?

Highly and he was one of the midfielders I wanted more than most for us to sign. To make it clear, if we do sign him, I'll be happy, but there are a few, not a lot, that I'd rather have for one reason or another. Vidal has shown more improvement over the course of the season and in my eyes, he'd be a better fit to what we need.

I think van Gaal won't drop Fellaini for Gündogan, because he sees his attributes, mostly his physicality, as a necessity. Gündogan isn't capable of playing as the holding midfielder yet, so what's left? Replace Herrera? I don't think he's currently better and he would compete for a spot with him, whereas Vidal for example would immediately replace Fellaini in the starting XI.

 

[JPRouve]

I understand what you're saying but I disagree, he has the defensive capabilities its just not as noticeable because he hasn't needed to be as disciplined, much like Modric and Carrick were. I tend to take more stock in a players intelligence, you can clearly see he understands the game and there's no reason why he can't convert to a defensive midfielder.

We don't need an immediate replacement for Carrick anyway, he's still got another season in him at the top level and Blind (with the addition of Gundogan) are more than capable of deputising for him.

I agree with that, I only disagree with the strategy, I think that it would be best to sign Gundogan for his best position which is #8 while keeping in mind that he could become a #6#. But in the mean time we should buy a player who is #6 like Kondogbia.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

I agree with that, I only disagree with the strategy, I think that it would be best to sign Gundogan for his best position which is #8 while keeping in mind that he could become a #6#. But in the mean time we should buy a player who is #6 like Kondogbia.

Buy them both i say. Its not like we dont need them if we want to win the title etc. next season - which we most certainly are aiming for!

 

[JPRouve]

Buy them both i say. Its not like we dont need them if we want to win the title etc. next season - which we most certainly are aiming for!

Yeah, that's what I think, we should buy them both for what they are, not what they could be after a conversion.