Wasn't that supposed to be something he wore around his waist to help in his back recovery? I mean look how square it is in the first image.Oh he did.
Who ate all Depay's?
İlkay Gündoğan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Maybe. Looks like he might have eaten a Dutch winger or two to me.
I don't know, doesn't look like he has that chubby a face though? Who cares though, Rooney etc have bloated in the past, it's their current state that matters.
Best to stay away from signing players who've had bad injuries, we might end up with another Hargreaves. Paying people to turn up and cheer the team on a training is a waste of funds.
Would only really want this guy if he was in addition to another midfielder.
Having a strong midfielder that can play 30-40 games next year will be key for us.
Having a strong midfielder that can play 30-40 games next year will be key for us.
True that
Or (from a glass half full perspective) - we might end up with another Van Nistelrooy whose transfer was delayed because he was sidelined for a whole season with injury at PSV Eindhoven ? Anyway, I don't understand why Gundogan is being written off completely. Back injuries require a longer rehabilitation period and he is progressing well. The fee being quoted could be a bargain if we can get him up to full form. There's always a sense of risk involved with transfers. You could buy a player with spotless fitness and he could tear his ACL in the first pre-season game rendering all prognostications obsolete.
True. But van Nistelrooy was an exception to the rule wasn't he. Rio never seemed to fully recover from his back injury. Maybe let someone else have him, take Hummels all day long though,
In terms of back injuries, worth remembering that John Terry (who's just had a thread started about his amazing ability to play so much football, aged 34) had serious problems with his back just a few years back.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/6215445.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...erve-problem-rule-Chelsea-captain-months.html
There are numerous cases of players who made good recoveries from severe fitness issues and went on to have productive careers. Van Nistelrooy is but one of those.
@Pogue Mahone provided the great example of John Terry, and he's been the best central defender in the league this season, despite his advancing years. If we can manage Gundogan's condition, and Van Gaal is convinced that he can get him back to his best, then he is an extremely good option to consider given his relatively young age. Lest we forget, Ilkay at his best was one of the Top 5 central midfielders in Europe, someone Gunter Netzer believed was on the verge of ousting Schweinsteiger from the German national team, and consistently performances on the biggest stage of club football - was the best player irrespective of position vs City, smothered Modric vs Real Madrid, was crucial in the final vs Bayern. From a risk vs reward standpoint, the returns could be immense at a bargain fee.
Rafa said:
he cant play two games a week... Facht
Worst case scenario after signing Gundogan, he doesn't get back to his best, and we're left with a relatively cheap midfielder that's a good rotation option, and at very least better than chucking Rooney in at CM every time Carrick and Shaw(EDIT: Meaning Blind would have to play LB, of course) both have knocks.
I also thought the medication he was on caused some bloating, makes a lot of sense.
I was gonna quote the post and tag you.I'm 50/50 on Gundogan, 2 years ago he was a dream signing, now there is a large element of risk.
I would have loved him back then, too.
While he was still with Nuremberg, he said we are a dream club to go to. Apparently we were scouting him back then. Obviously it doesn't mean much, but I always felt that he is genuinely interested in joining us unlike others.
Reliable regarding most clubs in Germany. There were bettter in the past though.
Hargreaves, Falcao, Owen, almost Vermaelen.
Pretty poor examples. Hargreaves was one yeah, but he was amazing in his first season and the reason he ended up being a crock was due to him playing on when he should not of.
Owen was free, and well worthy of a sub role that he was brought in for.
Falcao was one of the best strikers in the world, and he's come here on a loan. Worth the risk imho.
How are they poor examples? We needed to strengthen after Ronaldo left and brought in Owen. Like many signings during Fergie's latter years, he wasn't what we hoped for. Hargreaves knee problems were well known in Germany and Bayern loved the fee we paid. Steadman, the surgeon where Hargreaves underwent his surgeries, said that he had never seen worse knees, considering he's know for operating on a lot of athletes, it's quite remarkable. His first season was great, but he was supposed to be one of our important signings and turned out to be mediocre one. Falcao had 3 major knee injuries and has been a mismatch when partnered with Rooney or van Persie, especially the latter. Welbeck would have been a much better fit to van Gaal's philosophy on the pitch. I merely pointing out that we've had enough risky signings with injury problems and considering everyone who joines becomes even more injury prone, I'd like us to go for the safer option.
It's not like he is a crock this season, even the current Gündogan is a decent player and would be at least a good option for our midfield. And when he gets back to his best he would be a fantastic bargain. For me it was a good first season for him and he did better than expected, I am much more confident now that he can return to his former level. Transfers are always a risk here and there, if we want to wait another year to prove his worth, his fee will increase and other teams will want him too. In the current scenario Dortmund wants to sell him and we will most likely need to sign him now. With Carricks injuries it would be the best if we sign him and Schneiderlin, wouldn't cost that much for us and the risk would be zero
Do people realize that the crock has played more than Herrera, Blind or Carrick this season?
I always like to think we could win any transfer battle for a non South American or Iberian player you are probably right, and Real Madrid did seem to be going for him after he played so well against them, but his back injury halted things.
My biggest concern is if he is our only CM buy. I think we need another great passer in midfield who can control a game, Gundogan can fit that bill but has a question mark over whether the dynamic side of his game will return to succeed in a league as physically demanding as the PL. However I just don't want anything to block us getting in a more athletic and physical option as well, I think we have all seen how important a Matic type of CM is in this league.
Has he lost all that weight he put on?
Just wondering, if say LvG also bought one of Schneiderlin/Kondogbia/Krychowiak to be a more pure DM with Gundogan as the replacement for Carrick's ability to dictate a game, would you be more inclined to take the chance on him?
That's the key for me..I don't think he will be the only signing in midfield if we get him...surely a more combative enforcer will be bought in to protect the back four and mop up...we have apparently been scouting Sporting a lot again this season..I know Nani is there but talk of Carvahlo being watched..?
We definitely need a strong and mobile presence in the middle of the park to play in Carricks position, I think the dictation of the game is Gundogan main strength, his long and short passing are equal to Carricks for sure so two players to equal all Carricks qualities will probably be needed with the added bonus of power and pace which Carrick lacks.
Hasn't he played like he has 'lead in his boots' this season?
Kagawa standing around watching others play. Plus ca change...He's still got a bit but here's an image from the weekend.
I wouldn't say so..he has never been lightening quick..as for lead in boots Mata, Carrick, Blind, Fellaini spring to mind and I would say he is faster than all of them post injury.
Possibly yes. It's not that I don't think he wouldn't be a decent signing, I just don't agree that he is what we need. IMO we need two central midfielders, who can play as an 8 or 6, hence why I'm hoping on Schneiderlin and Xhaka. One to replace Carrick, the other to improve on Fellaini. Gündogan currently looks at his best with the least amount of defensive responsibility possible. Even at his best I think he needs a player like the ones you've mentioned beside him to get the best out of him. Van Gaal talked about, how we have too many 10s; Rooney, Mata, Herrera, Fellaini and di Maria, after all it's where di Maria is supposed to play according to the caf, Gündogan would be another player, who wouldn't give van Gaal his beloved "balance" IMO.
I'm going to tag you in another thread to show you what I mean and why the two would make more sense for me, since it would be slightly off-topic.
It's definitely a two man job I think, and we have lacked enough physical presence in midfield quite some time. I don't know about Carvalho, he seemed to have been more of a Moyes target, but judging by the prices quoted we could get this midfield up to scratch for close to £50M for Gundogan and Schneiderlin.
Go and get this done...
Schneiderlin would be my preference but he seems Arsenal bound according to most reports.
Real quality player who has very similar qualities to Carricks whereas he always seems to be in the right place to intercept and sweep up, think he also has more of a tackle in him than Carrick although not necessarily a complete DM. I think the tenacity of Herrera and these two would give enough bite in the middle when defending and also offer a hell of a lot going forward and keeping the ball.
There are so many posts in this thread from posters comparing Gundogan to players with knee or other leg injuries, which are completely incomparable.
I had an operation to solve a nerve problem (sciatica) back in December, and my surgeon kept referring to Terry as an example that if all went well, I should be able to get back to playing football no problem. I told him about Gundogan who seemed to have a vaguely similar problem (although Gundogan always referred to it as 'nerve inflammation') and how he'd been struggling to find a solution, despite being able to afford the best medical advice money can buy.
He said that ultimately, the nerve pain that we all experienced is down to something pressing on the nerve. I think this was a slipped disc in all 3 cases, where the fluid that 'slips' out, isn't consumed (for want of a better word) by the body. Once that fluid is successfully removed, there is no reason you will suffer from the pain/injury again. I was told by the surgeon and 2 physio's since, that there isn't an increased chance of the injury recurring once it's fully healed. I see no reason why it would be different with Gundogan or Terry.
Terry's recovery was very quick if I remember correctly, as his operation was clearly particularly successful. Gundogan's was messy and they struggled to remove all of the fluid. From what I've read (which is quite a lot as I was interested in Gundogan's case and it's similarities to my own problems) the surgeons like to give it a reasonable amount of time after each operation, before considering the next step. That was part the reason for Gundogan's lengthy lay off, as he needed multiple operations to completely solve his problem.
Lastly for those who keep bringing up his weight - You have to know that this nerve pain is unlike any other injury. It makes ALL movement painful. It's very difficult to find any form of exercise that isn't painful, which was clearly a problem for Gundogan. Personally I found the only exercise I could do was breaststroke (every other stroke hurt) and even then only for maybe 30mins. He obviously has a stocky build, so struggled with his weight. Again, this was no doubt another reason why he was out for so long, as he must have spent sometime behind closed doors losing weight and building up basic fitness.
TL;DR - Physically there is no reason for him not to get back to his best.
It would say Kicker is reliable for all german clubs.
the reason he was out for a year was because of his "back" right? no recurrence of that injury since or what? just asking.
It does seem we are not even looking at him but that could be a good sign that we are if we are going back to how we used to do business, although I suspect we'd buy him and Clyne at the same time and there's not even a whiff of that.
More or less. Sometimes they take up rumours from elsewhere, too. But yes, compared to English newspapers Kicker really is relieable - even BILD is relieable when it is their own sources and not when they repeat stuff from the English or spanish press.
No. He is not injury prone either. Sometimes missed a match - but nothing really serious...
He missed 4 matches this season after his injury because he still had fitness deficits - and 3 single matches since then because of things like the flu etc.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ilkay-gundogan/verletzungen/spieler/53622
I've never been confident of us winning any transfer battle when pitted against top teams in Europe tbh man, but that's probably me just being cautious to some extent & not gettin my hopes up too much.
This transfer forum has done my head in & enthralled me at the same time since i first started lurkin on here in 2005 or before, so that's the reason why: "Its a done deal.." "He's on a plane right this moment.." "Breaking News: Ronaldinho has just signed for Barcelona.." etc etc..
Lest not forget his name - Peter Kenyon! The man who scuppered the Ronaldinho deal.. We got the young Ronnie instead though, but would have been great to have "The Two Ronnies"
I share your concern also man, i also have concerns that we will not only just buy 1 CM, but only 1 CB aswell - that to me, is pure madness if that happens.
We could have won the league this season if we'd bought quality 2 CB's & 2 quality CM's imo - Arsenal & City fans could say the same thing too. The games we lost were predominantly down to us being pussies in midfield & in defence & havin players out injured, with no like-for-like cover.
Its pretty plain to see, that we only tick when Carrick's playin too, which means we're a one-trick pony / one-man team. His presence in our team is immense, but i dont doubt the club know this & i hope to God they find quality back-up / someone to compete with him for a starting role. Its an absolute must!
The two CB's on my wishlist are Gundogan & Strootman. I've no doubts over Gundogan's fitness tbh (he just needs a summer rest & then a full pre-season), but Strootman is another kettle of fish. So much for knee injury's not being as critical as before, with the advent of improved science & surgery techniques etc.. Maybe players are rushing back too soon or the clubs are pushing them too hard in their recovery.
Strootman is the dynamic type we need in CM. Pure box to box all day long & loves his battles. Of course his transfer to us seems very unlikely, due to his breakdown & Cartilage damage surgery in Feb, but i'd be shocked if LvG wasnt monitoring his progress thus far, because he would have him at United already, if not for his injury.
We've seen that United arent willing to take any chances with crocked players ala Vidal, last summer, but that's the type of player we need - aswell as a Gundogan type.
We seem to be jinxed with world-class box-to-box targets - they end up with snapped knees. If i was a player in that category - i'd be prayin United weren't interested in signing me. I reckon Hargreaves has put some voodoo-like curse, on all dynamic CM's we're interested in - as he's blamed us for his knee injury problems (wanker)
Nice one in backing up what many have been sayin on here BW. Gundogan was never injury-prone - it was just the back issue, which has been resolved. He just needs a rest & then a full pre-season & his game will be back to where it was, no doubt..
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