İlkay Gündoğan

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No, I don´t catch that many games of the club I support :rolleyes:

With transfer talks been broken down the situation has changed. Nuri Sahin (our actually most important midfielder) being injured 80% of the time is also not that likely to be repeated.

Gündogan´s successor will arrive this Summer and Gündogan will be pushed back in the picking order if he stays. Tuchel won´t plan that much with a player who is certain to be out the door after one season.

I´m asbolutely certain that he will be sold this Summer, most likely to either United or Arsenal. It is simply the best deal for all involved parties.
From watching Gundogan during this season, do you think he's getting closer to the player he was or you think that injury took a lot away from his game?

Oh, and do you think he's able to get back to his best?
 
Id say its 50/50 between us and Arsenal to get him, although I think Arsenal should be targeting a more defensive midfielder.
 
What makes you so certain you can bring his successor in so quickly?

From what I understand the supporters don't want to make him an important part of the team, since he wants to go in 2016, they want to turn the page as soon as possible.
 
Id say its 50/50 between us and Arsenal to get him, although I think Arsenal should be targeting a more defensive midfielder.

People say he's Carricks replacement how much more defensive can you be pal. LVG used xavi at 6 for barca I believe so they could be right....
 
From what I understand the supporters don't want to make him an important part of the team, since he wants to go in 2016, they want to turn the page as soon as possible.
I understand them wanting to replace him so quickly. I meant how is @Sphaero so confident they can identify a suitable player and buy him, so soon after Gundogan has announced he's off.
 
I think for the money quoted, in this day and age, we would be stupid to not go for someone of his quality.
Whoever gets him will of had a steal imo.
 
People say he's Carricks replacement how much more defensive can you be pal. LVG used xavi at 6 for barca I believe so they could be right....


He could play that deep anchor role easily but for me Arsenal need a solid defensive midfielder, someone strong who can win them the ball, they have plenty of players through the middle who can create chances.
 
I understand them wanting to replace him so quickly. I meant how is @Sphaero so confident they can identify a suitable player and buy him, so soon after Gundogan has announced he's off.

They are targeting Geis, I think. And they kind of knew that it was a possibility.
 
As an aside to who he will join, what do you think of him actually leaving @Sphaero?

Seems like a bit of a cnutish thing to do, having been supported through all his injury troubles and also given a new contract while he was still injured (iirc?) Seems very poor form that he's just going to walk out. I'm guessing a lot of Dortmund fans aren't happy with him?
 
He could play that deep anchor role easily but for me Arsenal need a solid defensive midfielder, someone strong who can win them the ball, they have plenty of players through the middle who can create chances.

I'm pretty sure some of the German based fans on here have said they don't think he could. At least not with any defensive responsibility, especially post injury.
 
He could play that deep anchor role easily but for me Arsenal need a solid defensive midfielder, someone strong who can win them the ball, they have plenty of players through the middle who can create chances.

They're linked with William Carvalho quite often, who plays that defensive role.
 
Yes but look at the part of the table they have occupied during all that time......Its completely different to what will be expected each and every game for us!
What does that have to do with one man? Just because Gundogan came back doesnt mean they were to win the title?
 
They're linked with William Carvalho quite often, who plays that defensive role.


Yeah he's exactly the player I think they'd go for, or at least the type of player I think they need. If they are interested in Gundogan then maybe Wilshere will be sold.
 
I understand them wanting to replace him so quickly. I meant how is @Sphaero so confident they can identify a suitable player and buy him, so soon after Gundogan has announced he's off.

Why couldn't they only we had an aversion to buyng midfielders for 6-7 years :)
 
Yeah he's exactly the player I think they'd go for, or at least the type of player I think they need. If they are interested in Gundogan then maybe Wilshere will be sold.

Maybe. Linked with City a fair bit at the moment. Would have been unthinkable that they'd sell him a couple of years ago when he was billed as their great hope.
 
What does that have to do with one man? Just because Gundogan came back doesnt mean they were to win the title?

I'm merely suggesting a man who couldnt lift their midfield given his post injury woes will certainly not lift our midfield anytime soon. I love the guy but jesus head over to the Blind thread to see a man crucified for one poor display after just a few games off with injury. Its completely unfair to expect Gundogan to come in and perform at our level which is a damn sight more pressured than Dortmunds currently.
 
Why couldn't they only we had an aversion to buyng midfielders for 6-7 years :)
:D I did nearly mention that as an example of how difficult it can be to identify and bring in the right player. Then I remembered we had countless opportunities to do it and fecked them all up.
 
:D I did nearly mention that as an example of how difficult it can be to identify and bring in the right player. Then I remembered we had countless opportunities to do it and fecked them all up.

I was thinking you might be thinking about us when typing that. In fairness they'll pick some youngster from somewhere I'm sure.
 
I'm merely suggesting a man who couldnt lift their midfield given his post injury woes will certainly not lift our midfield anytime soon. I love the guy but jesus head over to the Blind thread to see a man crucified for one poor display after just a few games off with injury. Its completely unfair to expect Gundogan to come in and perform at our level which is a damn sight more pressured than Dortmunds currently.
No one is expecting him to be world class anytime soon. He is 24. He can plenty of time to become that. His physical fitness needs to be taken care of over the next 12-18 months. Once he gets that down, his form will automatically come with it. We all know its a gamble if we get him. We should take the gamble since the upside is far greater than the downside.
 
No one is expecting him to be world class anytime soon. He is 24. He can plenty of time to become that. His physical fitness needs to be taken care of over the next 12-18 months. Once he gets that down, his form will automatically come with it. We all know its a gamble if we get him. We should take the gamble since the upside is far greater than the downside.

People should think of him as a brilliant cleverley squad upgrade thats all. We still need a CM to come straight into the team allowing him to continue the rehab Dortmund have started. Trust me plenty on here think he'll smash it from day dot!!
 
His massive injury problem alone lets me question whether I want us to pursue him and definitely not for 30 million.
 
I understand them wanting to replace him so quickly. I meant how is @Sphaero so confident they can identify a suitable player and buy him, so soon after Gundogan has announced he's off.

Because nobody was seriously surprised about Gündogan´s future departure and we have been scouting and planning for the time post Gündogan for quite some time now? Bringing back Sahin was mostly about lowering the reliability on Gündogan, which payed off fairly quickly. We also brought in versatile midfielders who impressed in the central midfield before (Mkhitaryan/Kampl) and could really shine in front of an defensive anchor. We are also linked with different types of alternatives, from promising talents (Weigl or the less realistic Tielemans) over big name solutions (Khedira) to league intern solutions (Castro). The often mentioned Geis should not be seen as his replacement, but as the one of the retiring Kehl in the anchor role.

People sometimes forget that it was absolutely not certain that Gündogan would return to the pitch at all, so the need of thinking about replacements has been around for a long time.
 
Thats in Euro. 20-22m pounds isnt a bad deal.

I'm not so sure, he was out for so long and from what I hear, he hasn't looked like himself ever since. A recovery requires a lot of time, I understand that but I don't believe he'll be as good as some claim he could be or once was.
 
I'm not so sure, he was out for so long and from what I hear, he hasn't looked like himself ever since. A recovery requires a lot of time, I understand that but I don't believe he'll be as good as some claim he could be or once was.
12 months ago they were saying he might not be able to kick a ball again and that he might have to retire. After being out of the game for 14 months, he has played quite a bit since his comeback. With good players around him, I think he can get back his form.
 
Ugh this is bad news. I don't want us to go near him. Hopefully Bayern or City make a move.
Same here. He isn't physically anywhere near where he was before and back problems are a long term problem. The only way anyone should take a chance on him is with a Saha-esque deal where you only pay after he plays.
 
This is a done deal, it's done. Stick a fork in it.

One player wrapped up. Depay and Hummels next followed by Clyne.

Then we can start prepping our bid for Pogba and Bale.
 
From watching Gundogan during this season, do you think he's getting closer to the player he was or you think that injury took a lot away from his game?

Oh, and do you think he's able to get back to his best?

I don´t know. The technical aspect of his game will probably return completely with time and better physical fittness, but thats only a part what made him such a good player. The part, which is harder to predict, is his mentality. He was never the strongest in that regard (tendency to overweight/overconfidence/ sensitive) and after coming back he often came across as timid: shying away from decisive tackles, taking too long with the ball on his feet and thus slowing down our play, failing to take responsibility to structure the game and infuse creativity. Yes, part of this rooted in his long injury and Dortmund not working properly as a unit, but it was also telling how Sahin, who the majority on here don´t rate nearly as high as Gündogan, managed to come back from a long injury and giving us direction as soon as he stood on the pitch again on top of being way stronger defensively and actually covering most of Gündogan´s duties in that regard.

The deciding factor for Gündogan´s future will be, if he can overcome the mental wall his injury has built for him. I´m sceptical if he can manage that in a more physical league without the standing/credit he had in Dortmund based on his past archivements. The pressure would be higher at United, which I see as a team wanting to actually be part of the title race next season. The margin of error is smaller at such a club and the chances are less frequent. This season he often played because of the lack of alternatives and not based on his performances. This will be different at United. He would not get away with so many invisible games and blunders. If he comes to the Old Trafford, the supporters would be wise to keep the expectations low.
 
This is a done deal, it's done. Stick a fork in it.

One player wrapped up. Depay and Hummels next followed by Clyne.

Then we can start prepping our bid for Pogba and Bale.
Are you sure we are going to stop there? Why did you leave out Messi and Ronaldo?
 
I don´t know. The technical aspect of his game will probably return completely with time and better physical fittness, but thats only a part what made him such a good player. The part, which is harder to predict, is his mentality. He was never the strongest in that regard (tendency to overweight/overconfidence/ sensitive) and after coming back he often came across as timid: shying away from decisive tackles, taking too long with the ball on his feet and thus slowing down our play, failing to take responsibility to structure the game and infuse creativity. Yes, part of this rooted in his long injury and Dortmund not working properly as a unit, but it was also telling how Sahin, who the majority on here don´t rate nearly as high as Gündogan, managed to come back from a long injury and giving us direction as soon as he stood on the pitch again on top of being way stronger defensively and actually covering most of Gündogan´s duties in that regard.

The deciding factor for Gündogan´s future will be, if he can overcome the mental wall his injury has built for him. I´m sceptical if he can manage that in a more physical league without the standing/credit he had in Dortmund based on his past archivements. The pressure would be higher at United, which I see as a team wanting to actually be part of the title race next season. The margin of error is smaller at such a club and the chances are less frequent. This season he often played because of the lack of alternatives and not based on his performances. This will be different at United. He would not get away with so many invisible games and blunders. If he comes to the Old Trafford, the supporters would be wise to keep the expectations low.

For some weird reason, while reading your post i got memory flash backs of Lars Ricken,not even sure what triggered it hmm
 
I struggle to get excited over Ilkay now tbh. Same as Hummels. Feels like we will be buying two players in the hope that they can be as good as they were 3 years ago. I think the reality is that the names Hummels and Gundogan don't mean what they once did. Gundogan would probably go for the amount touted whether he had a year left or not.

Yeah, I agree. Every transfer has a certain risk, but in his case it's a big if, if he will return to his best. Sphaero's comments only add to that doubt. I almost hope he goes to Arsenal, he's the sort of midfielder they need the least.
 
This is a done deal, it's done. Stick a fork in it.

One player wrapped up. Depay and Hummels next followed by Clyne.

Then we can start prepping our bid for Pogba and Bale.

Are you sure we are going to stop there? Why did you leave out Messi and Ronaldo?

I agree with the poster...depay, clyne and hummels are already wrapped up.. :D
 
If he can overcome his injuries fully then 20 odd mil is a bargain. However im not in agreement with those who say he is a holding midfielder. I would def sign kondogbia too for that role instead.

A midifield 3 of kondogbia-gundogan-herrera would be possibly the most mobile, athletic not to mention technically outstanding in europe. All can work box to box and are fantastic positionally.

Those 2, hummels and a new striker would be my wishlist.
 
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