He only got injured sometime at the beginning of September or end of August. Remember he had that amazing game against bayern in the supercup?
İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Also what I thought, our main competitors down, now we just need him to turn down an extensionSurely this is on now that Barcelona are out of the picture?
Would be an amazing signing if it could happen, I really can't think of a more perfect signing for the midfield if he gets over the injury problems. He's quick, hard working, intelligent, very good on the ball and can dictate tempo, good defensively, offers plenty of movement and would be the perfect player to play next to carvalho or whatever other defensive mid we get.
Surely this is on now that Barcelona are out of the picture?
I think you should expand for people probably not all clued up....
We should defo get him now though
Barcelona have been handed a 14 month transfer ban. So they wont be able to sign anyone for the next 2 transfer windows. But I expect that to be shortened, if not completely overturned because hey, its Barcelona isnt it.I think you should expand for people probably not all clued up....
We should defo get him now though
On the subject of this clearing a path to Gundogan for us, Im not too sure. Say the ban stays in place for Barca, it gives Barca a year to assess how Ilkay's back has healed up and let them go at him next summer.
I doubt the ban will be upheld as it would be rather unprecedented and major piece of news. If it holds then obviously it's a more realistic ambition for us to sign him. If we are to sign him, it would be this summer. The midfield will surely be addressed once and for all (well, with the next few years in mind) this summer.
I think this should stay (the ban) there's no excuses for this behaviour, the rules should not be broken, same with FFP, any people breaking rules should be punished.
Well Chelsea had a longer ban shortened didnt they, iirc. I can see that happening for Barca aswell, just a ban for this summers transfer window.
It could cause them problems though if Valdes and Puyol keep to their words and leave this summer. Pinto as a first choice GK and no depth beyond Pique and Mascherano at CB isn't good enough for a club that is one of the best in Europe.
I could see Valdes reversing his decision though. It would benefit both him and the club. Difficult to start a new challenge with a new club on the back of a long injury.
Fifa have apparently told cadena ser that there's no chance the ban will be revoked, as this is for a case of over 10 youngsters I think over the last 4-5 years. It might get shortened a little or lightened up a bit, but I'm fairly certain it will be 1 window at least, probably 2. Most reporters also saying its different from the Chelsea situation in that there's a much smaller chance of it getting revoked.
When is this guy back? Is he training?
Gundogan is the player that could transform our fortunes...he's a phenomenon...But doubt he is seriously considering coeming to play for a defensive coach with no champions league but nice to dream
It is a big mystery. He was back for pre-season in January at one point but had to withdraw during a training session due to a cold he caught - apparently. His back problem then reoccured and he's done some light jogging since but nothing more.
You have not seen the MUTV interview when SAF says that Scholes is the world worst tackler? Funny reaction from Scholes, seems that SAF has not said it to his face.
Scholes is a horrible tackler, really poor timing. Giggs however, one of the best. How he actually starts directing the ball the direction he wants and starting thinking about getting up from the Pitch "in-tackle" is fantastic.
He was always going to Real, not Barcelona according to most muppets!
Were getting Barkley and Ward-Prowse. Accept it.
Were getting Barkley and Ward-Prowse. Accept it.
I could almost guarantee you that we won't be getting Barkley.
I thought he was paralysed or something awful like that?! Why would we want him?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/19/roberto-martinez-david-moyes-everton-ross-barkleyThanks mate... Everton for life Once a blue etc...
According to Kicker he can't even run at the moment and might need surgery. Don't know if we'll ever see that Gündogan again
That's hardly something to have to accept to be fair. Barkley is an amazing talent.
This is a real shame if true. He's just an outstanding talent and was the best young central midfielder in the game.
That's quite sad. Doesn't look like he will be going anywhere this summer, just focusing on rehab I imagine.
What exactly has he done to his back? Does anyone know?
Herniated disc
I had same injury and surgery for it (laminectomy L4/5). The level of recovery is hard to predict. I used to be a road runner (what probably buggered it in the first place) and I had to give that up - just too painful after the surgery; could hardly move the day after a run. I fear for him.
Fortunately, Ilkay is a priority for Barcelona as evidenced by them being able to send their own physician to evaluate him - still a strange occurrence, IMHO. But it doesn't sound like he'll be leaving Dortmund anytime in the near future as surgery sounds very probable at this point. It'll be 2015, at the earliest, if at all that he hits the market
He certainly is. Remember when Rooney burst into the scene? I don't think even he scored as many goals as Barkley has. He'd be a great buy!
i would we happy with this if we got someone experienced for 2-3 years. Xabi Alosno would be fantastic but the prospect of getting him is science-fiction.
He plays with a very similar swagger to a teenaged Rooney. I'd be over the moon if we get him. I also think we'd have been nailed on to get him if Fergie was here.
Well thinking of what would happen if Fergie were here is pointless. I don't blame Moyes for United paying £27m. That is Ed Woodward's job. He ought to have done a much better job with it and obviously he didn't. Anyone who has read any book on modern day football finances will tell you that it's the Execs that pay the cash and negotiate. Gone are the days when managers bag players under the noses of owners, a la Brian Clough at Derby. If we didn't have Fellaini, we'd be playing with bloody Cleverley in midfield which is a scarier sight to me. We need players in, the Execs fecked up and Moyes faces the stick
I hope the lad recovers fully, whether it to play for us, Dortmund or any other club. Such a fantastic talent, it'l be really sad if an injury destroys his career.
That's silly. You don't blame fergie for us signing young for 18 million and paying him big wages? The buck stops with the manager. Moyes had all summer to get someone. No one forced him to get Fellaini at that price.
Bit of a simplistic way of looking at it.
At most clubs it's surely the case that the manager identifies a list of targets and asks the club to go and get them.
The manager will if course be involved in deciding what he thinks players are worth, how best to spend a finite budget and what targets to move on to if things don't work out, but to lay a poor summers transfer business all at the feet of the manager isn't fair or accurate.
Hopefully all involved have learned from last year and they can get it right this summer.
And then accept or reject the signing based on the fee, surely?
I doubt Moyes would be forced to accepted a 50 million signing which he thought was worth 20 million max.
And I'm not saying it comes down one single individual. But responsibility does lay on the guy at the top. Even united's failings this season are all a 100% Moyes' doing. But he is accountable foe the end result.
Possibly - but it depends what sort of money is available. They might set a top limit for a player - but if the manager wants a player he might not be overly concerned if they spend a bit more than they wanted too - especially if time is running out and options are limited.
But you suggested "Moyes had all summer and only got Fellaini". Seems clear he wanted a number of players, probably identified early on. For whatever reason it didn't happen.
Hard to say who's to blame - those involved at the club as well as the manager - but it can't all be on Moyes. He can't get deals done if the club don't get a deal agreed in principle.
As I've said, hopefully all have learned about the shambles last summer.
THe manager picks the man. The Execs hash out the cash. The the execs go to the manager after and say:"This is what we've managed to get out of this Mr Manager, £XXm with wages of £XXXXXX. Do you want him?"
At that point of the situation, the manager comes in and says Yes or No. That is just how it works. I live in London. I do journalism. I've met with many senior football journalists who concur with the process.
Now, is Moyes to blame for accepting the £27m offer the Execs managed to hash out with Everton? I would say, yes. But, David Moyes is not a stupid man. This is a man who built an extensive scouting system at Everton and made some very good deals over the years. Suddenly, he goes tits up and doesn't know how to do transfers? No, I don't believe for one second that that's what happened. There was a massive top-down change at Old Trafford and everyone was new to the job. Ed Woodward was the finance man and he didn't know anything about transfer deals. Everton took the mickey out of him and everyone who comments on football knows it. Note that almost every single pundit, the sensible ones I mean, say that Manchester United had a bad transfer window. Not Moyes, Manchester United. It was a group screw up. But, the guys who hashed out the deal gave Moyes two very poor options - Sign no player or Sign someone he knows has skill and ability, and has shown glimpses of real quality. Granted £27m was way over the top.
This is why you saw Moyes running around in January. He took matters into his own hands in trying to set up deals. He realises that a lot of groundwork needed to be done before the summer so that deals could be done quickly and efficiently. Let us look at the summer and see just how well he does.
If he really was so callous about Fellaini, then theoretically he will spend a lot of money poorly this summer. Why does the United board trust him with the cash? Why are they willing to let him spend? Because they know it wasn't his fault entirely, as to what went wrong in the summer.
I agree - but only if the manager had been given what he needs and/or what he was promised to do his job.
If that's the case it simplifies matters if success doesn't follow. You can make a decision then that he isn't the man for the job.
Regardless, whoever is on charge going forward, the club needs to go a out transfer business in a more efficient way.
You have made a LOT of assumptions in that post of yours. Why does the board feel he can handle the cash? I have no idea and I think neither do you. Just because the board feels it is right (which again we have no idea about) does not mean it is right. I am sure everyone here accepts that Woodward had a part to play in our poor transfer window. Actually most on here apportioned the majority of the blame on Woody rather than Moyes.
But it was not Woodward's fault that Moyes allegedly dallied on Thiago, spent a ridiculous amount of time in getting an almost ungettable player in Fabregas and then the major goof up in the Coentra and Herrera deals right there at the end. It was not Woodward's fault that we chased Fellaini and Baines all season. I can believe that Woodward could have screwed up the Fellaini transfer where in he could have got him for his buy out clause earlier. But since it is you who said that the manager has the final say about what he feels is the right price for a player, even that can be put down to Moyes not feeling Fellaini to be worth his buyout clause and then panic buying him for 4 million more than that.
No matter how you want to look at it, Moyes comes out of it much worse than Woodward.
Woodward has become a scapegoat for a failed transfer window, of which no one here has a clue for the real cause of the mess. Most of the finger pointing has been done based on groundless assumption made by every individual.
I don't blame any one single individual for this, because I do not have insider knowledge, and neither do I think does anyone else here. As fans, we can only say that the entire management messed up, and it is pointless to lay the blame on a single individual. Especially considering we do not have much idea about what happens behind closed doors.
That being said, the manager is included in that management team as well. Especially at a club like ours, more so than usual. The final confirmation comes from the manager. We do not have a DoF here who picks the players and handles all the transfers. The manager has the final word in regards to transfers for us. We usually have an estimation of a player's worth, which we are willing to pay for. If it exceeds that, then we do not pursue the target anymore. If we mess up as magnificently as we have last window, the blame should fall collectively on everyone involved in the decision making process. In the end, the manager holds a significant part of the blame as well. He certainly is not exempt from it.
Also, regarding the whole Fellaini saga, that was cleared up already. We did not pay the release clause for Fellaini because we wanted to make a double offer for Fellaini and Baines, something that was explained by the manager. Moyes wasted time on these targets too much, and left it too late to go for the alternatives. We only got Fellaini after we separated our double bid and put in individual bids for the players separately.
It is not just Moyes though. Even previously under SAF we did mess it up at times as well. So us messing up transfers is not something new. If and when this happened, the blame would fall on all of them, including SAF as well.
I don't blame any one single individual for this, because I do not have insider knowledge, and neither do I think does anyone else here. As fans, we can only say that the entire management messed up, and it is pointless to lay the blame on a single individual. Especially considering we do not have much idea about what happens behind closed doors.
That being said, the manager is included in that management team as well. Especially at a club like ours, more so than usual. The final confirmation comes from the manager. We do not have a DoF here who picks the players and handles all the transfers. The manager has the final word in regards to transfers for us. We usually have an estimation of a player's worth, which we are willing to pay for. If it exceeds that, then we do not pursue the target anymore. If we mess up as magnificently as we have last window, the blame should fall collectively on everyone involved in the decision making process. In the end, the manager holds a significant part of the blame as well. He certainly is not exempt from it.
Also, regarding the whole Fellaini saga, that was cleared up already. We did not pay the release clause for Fellaini because we wanted to make a double offer for Fellaini and Baines, something that was explained by the manager. Moyes wasted time on these targets too much, and left it too late to go for the alternatives. We only got Fellaini after we separated our double bid and put in individual bids for the players separately.
It is not just Moyes though. Even previously under SAF we did mess it up at times as well. So us messing up transfers is not something new. If and when this happened, the blame would fall on all of them, including SAF as well.
Of course Moyes is to blame. Woodward said that the club didn't think Herrera was worth his release clause but then paid more than Fellaini's release clause (which was already ridiculously high).
If Woodward was willing to pay more than the release clause for Fellaini than he just can't have a problem paying a wee bit more (Moyes' favourite words) for Herrera. Why should he? And if strong rumours are to be believed Fellaini is earning 125 k (he must be on at least 100 k anyway) while Herrera was willing to accept less than we were prepared to offer him in order to help us pay his release clause. But knowing Moyes he most probably told Woodward how Fellaini is PL proven and how his chest control is out of this world. A complete farce this has been from Moyes, passing on a much much better player in favour of Fellaini!
If Woodward was willing to pay more than the release clause for Fellaini than he just can't have a problem paying a wee bit more (Moyes' favourite words) for Herrera. Why should he? And if strong rumours are to be believed Fellaini is earning 125 k (he must be on at least 100 k anyway) while Herrera was willing to accept less than we were prepared to offer him in order to help us pay his release clause. But knowing Moyes he most probably told Woodward how Fellaini is PL proven and how his chest control is out of this world. A complete farce this has been from Moyes, passing on a much much better player in favour of Fellaini!
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