Offensive minded midfielder? Really?? He should be getting more goals if thats the case.
İlkay Gündoğan Transfer Thread
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Offensive minded midfielder? Really?? He should be getting more goals if thats the case.
So is Reus and he's more of a match winner plus would offer us 10 goals a season minimum. I would worry about Klopp he'd be as effective as Fergie using the race card to get Pogba to stay here.
You're embarrassing yourself, have you ever actually seen him play?
WTF?
I think he's trolling.
Offensive doesn't simply translate into goals, a playmaker is offensive, yet quite often has a low goal return.
He wrote offensive minded CM. He plays the more attacking part in a 2men central midfield and most of the time had a true defensive midfielder next to him. Along with Dortmund playing a high defensive line and using intensive pressing as part of the defensive, I also don't get why anyone would read anything in him having few blocked shots or clearances. Dortmund's system wouldn't work if he had impressive stats at those.
How is that? Frank Lampard is use to be an offensive midfielder. Gundogan is just a midfielder they do exist. Yes i have watched him play which is why i can make the statement.
Would you say Pirlo is offensive?
Gundogan plays pretty much a Scholes type role that he played before he retired.
Loves picking the ball up from deep, keeping the tempo and then once further up the pitch has a excellent eye for a pass, and has great acceleration/dribbling to burst through midfield.
I personally do not give 2 craps about stats, I can see with my own eyes that he would be a revelation in our midfield.
He told him there was a lot of racism in Italy and the league is nolonger one of the best. Point being he still moved.
I agree with you. I still remember the game he played against Bayern when we were watching Kagawa he was everywhere. Impressed me from then.
I'd say to classify a player such as Pirlo to be either offensive or defensive would be quite ignorant
Yep! Well feel the same about Gundogan.
So then Gundogan is on a similar level to Pirlo? Madness, as that's the reason I said it'd be ignorant, due to the level Pirlo has reached he can combine both.
Gundogan is an offensive minded player with defensive qualities.
So once he reaches his level he can have his own special category?? I understand that.. It makes sense.
You are surely being obtuse, but no have it your way, I'll reword for you.Pirlo and Gundogan are different players, here we are discussing Gundogan. Your original comment was
Which is quite wrong, as I pointed out that if he is a playermaker, assisting everyone, then he would be offensive, but not actually scoring. At which Point you asked about Pirlo and whether he was off/def and I said
To which you replied
Quite clearly from your first post, you don't feel the same... in fact you were overly questioning someone describing him as offensive, but would agree with me that he's both offensive and defensive?
Go home mate.
Pirlo and Gundogan are different players, here we are discussing Gundogan. Your original comment was
Which is quite wrong, as I pointed out that if he is a playermaker, assisting everyone, then he would be offensive, but not actually scoring. At which Point you asked about Pirlo and whether he was off/def and I said
To which you replied
Quite clearly from your first post, you don't feel the same... in fact you were overly questioning someone describing him as offensive, but would agree with me that he's both offensive and defensive?
Go home mate.
He's a complete midfielder. Whether he has to be on of the best the get this accolade or 10 years of footballing experience i don't care. Plus your last comment made no sense as you answered your own question.
My last comment did make sense, if you care to point out which part and discuss it, i'd be happy to, but saying after several points, that one didn't make sense while pointing, isn't the most helpful now is it...
He doesn't have to be one of the best or not? I am not sure what you are failing to comprehend, I'll lay it out in simple happy steps for you.
1. You laughed at someone for suggesting he is offensive minded and then questioned why he has such a low goal return (for someone so supposedly offensive minded)
2. I pointed out that you can be offensive minded without scoring (Again, not even relevant to Ikay's case, more a comment)
3. You then asked what I thought on Pirlo
4. I explained I thought he was Defensive and offensive.
5. You agreed he was defensive and offensive.
Can you see in point 1 you laughed at someone for suggesting he was offensive, and in point 5 you'd actually he was offensive...
That's not the craziest thing, you then try and state that my comments make no sense? Talking to you is like trying to get a conversation out of a banana, fecking pointless.
Are these trick questions? I don't get were your confused? I wish i was a banana... I wouldn't have had to have this pointless conversation with you.
He's a no8. How's it expected of him to make blocks and clearances? Football isn't played on paper, just by watching you'd notice that he doesn't lose the ball easily. He's strong on the ball and really good in tight spaces.
He isn't a world class player but he's darn close. Exactly what we could use considering his age and the potential he has. I'd say the only weakness he has is his passing can be a bit inconsistent at times. That'll probably come with time.
I disagree as I said. I watch him play, I look at the stats and for me he isn't what we need. I say again, where would he play? Alongside Carrick? That won't happen, United CM's are meant to be disciplined and defensive minded. The CM's shield our defense and spread the play, that's how it's been for several years now. So if we did buy Gindogan he'd have the same issues Kagawa is facing now.
Just because a decent young player becomes available doesn't mean we should buy him. You have to look at the squad and determine if he could fit in. In my opinion, he wouldn't. He wouldn't dislodge Rooney and he doesn't have the defensive qualities that a United CM should have. Therefore he'd be pushed out on the left like Kagawa.
Ayeeee? You taking about Reus?
Calm down, girls.
That's what I thought too. Doesn't seem to have any idea where Gundogan actually plays.He'd slot in next to Carrick like a puzzle piece.
He has a point when he says that we would be exposed with Gundogan. I rate him very highly, but he has a player like Bender besides him at Dortmund, a type of player we don't have at United.
He'd slot in next to Carrick like a puzzle piece.
I know exactly where he plays and i'm saying he doesn't have the attributes that match a Manchester United central midfielder. He doesn't have the defensive abilities imo to play it, it's why we don't play Kagawa in CM, the same would apply to Gundogan. Hence my point that he'd become yet another player that we'd struggle to fit in. You can talk all you like about having fancy attacking midfield players, but that's not what we need.
That's not what Gundogan is. By continuing to compare him to Kagawa you are betraying the fact that you don't know where he actually plays. He plays at the base of Dortmund's midfield alongside Bender. He's generally very defensively solid and whilst he is very capable driving higher up the pitch, his starting position is from deep.
Kagawa is a #10 on the verge of being a support striker. He plays a totally, totally different position.
But my point is that he doesn't do the defensive qualities well enough to be in the CM for us, Bender does all of the dirty work for him. Christ.
If you want him as a replacement for Carrick, then yes I could see that working. But if you want a partner for Carrick then no, it just doesn't work.
Gundogan is a high energy box to box player. Like Kagawa though I would say he is best suited to the particular style Dortmund play. Here the build up play is much slower and I don't think he is an eye of the needle type passer. He is a better version of Wilshere, he has that ability to beat players and make runs from deep. He is a better passer than Wilshere too. He could definitely do a good job for us.
Agreed, but you can't play him alongside Carrick, so either he replaces Carrick or he's an understudy. If he's an understudy, then do we really have the money to purchase him? What we really need is a partner for Carrick. Hence if we did buy him, the only way he'd be in the first team is either if Carrick was injured/rested or we played 3 in midfield and that rarely happens nowadays.
So it's either change formation, play him out of position, play him alongside Carrick and watch us be exposed like normal, or put him on the bench and play him when Carricks rested/injured.
That's my opinion anyway and therefore he's just not worth purchasing considering the money he'd cost.
But my point is that he doesn't do the defensive qualities well enough to be in the CM for us, Bender does all of the dirty work for him. Christ.
If you want him as a replacement for Carrick, then yes I could see that working. But if you want a partner for Carrick then no, it just doesn't work.
Is Carrick not our Bender? We wanted Fabregas for frig sack.. Now that is actually a player that is world class in the final third. Why is Gundogan getting all these offensive attributes. If you want a perfect example of what sort of player he is look to Nuri Sahin. Now if you see how Liverpool deployed him you'd understand there is no way in hell we could expect him to play this offensive midfield role its not him and yes like you did kind of suggest he would be 5 levels below Rooney.
But for your arguement sack would you feel he would fit good next to Fellaini?
You're being ridiculous. Was Scholes' job to shield our defence? Or did he not work in our system in your view? Gundogan can replace Scholes in our team, with an even better defensive contribution.
RS, he can play in a midfield two on a cold rainy night in stoke. What more would you want?
I should never have got involved with these transfer muppets! Save me Summit, you're my only hope.
What makes you say that we would be exposed? He does his fair share of defensive work. Carrick is no makalele in front of the back four and I feel Carrick is most probably best utilized in a midfield 3 but that is a conversation for another day. But I feel he can slot into the midfield beside Carrick and do a great job. He has the energy levels to get from our box to the opponents box. Unless you just feel Carrick himself isn't solid enough without his partner contributing more than Gundogan does??
This
I'm starting to think RS's point is that Carrick is no Keane in terms of defensive solidity.
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