We've offloaded him already once, and also picked Benzema over Higuain which has proved to be the wrong decision. I think Benzema has that flo with zizou sextape
Álvaro Morata | Chelsea player
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Great numbers regarding a bench player. I think I'll change my opinion about him.
I was thinking something similar.Did it? They won 2 CL with Benzema upfront, and it's not a coincidence. While Higuain scores more (and always did), he never was as good as Benzema for Ronaldo, and that was always the main thing.
I think Morata will be one hot buy of the summer and honestly, United should be all over him and Griezmann to provide us with us with the necessary firepower along with Rashford next season. Didn't Mourinho give Morata his first break?
He's really a fantastic player, hope there is some genuine interest from us.
Yes, he did!
The probability of Mourinho playing with two CFs is practically a negative number.
If Mourinho stays in charge, Rashford will spend the next 2-3 seasons as mainly a LWF and occassionaly as a CF. Moreso Rashford is not really the type for a SS role
Way too small a sample to be changing your mind over. I'd rather trust my eyetest. This doesn't seem sustainable.
15 goals for a bench player is too much tbf. Kinda like what Hernandez was doing with us.
My complaint of him was his lack of goals with Juve but his stats look way better with Madrid.
He's been sharp this season, bagged another couple tonight, both quality finishes against a woeful Granada side.
1/3 conversion rate would suggest an absolute elite finisher. I'm not sure Morata fits that description, so that's what I mean by unsustainable.
You say that but Mourinho's main target, Griezmann is a second striker that thrives with a more conventional striker next to him. I think he would provide enough goals to allow Rashford to grow into that role as a starter with Martial to rotate with him.
Rashford as the CFi next season s not going to happen. Mourinho will not hinge his goal scoring burden for an entire season on Rashford, who has yet to show he can bear that burden, and Martial has shown even less.
With or without Griezmann, Rashford will not be our starting CF. If it seems that the new CF, Griezmann and Rashford cannot play together, it is likely Griezmann that will not be bought.
Mourinho will get a proven starting CF, with someone like Morata being the minimum requirement.
As i said, the goal scoring burden would be on Griezmann with Rashford chipping in and growing into the role. Rashford and Griezmann could play together and would actually probably link up very well and be a nightmare to defend against. Him coming seems as likely as Mourinho coming this time last season or Pogba a little later on, to much smoke for there to be no fire but we'll see.
The last thing we should or will do is buy a 24 year old striker like Morata who would push Rashford to the bench/wing just to accommodate another shiny toy. Rashford is proving himself as a number 9 every time he gets to play there. He did it last season and since Zlatans injury he is doing it this season too, would be a big shame on the club to hinder that for a marketable Madrid reject.
People forget we have 2 of the best young strikers in the world in Martial and Rashford. In Martials case some fans are willing to bin him off because of 1 difficult season and in Rashfords because he is 19, ridiculous when the same fans are getting giddy over in the M'bappe thread.
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Beast...but against already relegated Granada...no fuss about it...however i like the style of Morata...he has an elegant move for a big CF...looks powerless, but actually very dangerous...
Remind me a little bit of Berbatov...
Remind me a little bit of Berbatov...
Video was pulled, what game was this from ?
(As explained by Simeone) Against most defences, you need a more direct battering ram CF to pair with Griezmann, and not the pacy, use of space types like Torres and Rashford (cos Griezmann makes use of said spaces). When Mandzukic left, they tried the Torres+Griezmann combo with less success, and thus last summer they tried to get Costa back but had to settle for Gameiro.
I have never understood why some want Rashford playing through the middle as a CF. I really cant see the upside of him getting into physical wars with CBs and being unable to use his pace. I would rather see him in a LWF (CR7 at Madrid) role in which he can maximizes his pace and skill, and still score a lot of goals. With Rashford as LWF, the RB will think twice about getting forward. Putting the kid in the middle will just subject him to unnecessary physical abuse, and one bad injury can easily derail his development. He simply does not have the physique for it at this stage, and bulking up would likely cost him his speed. Very few defences will play a high line against Rashford given his pace and they would rather back off and give him a cushion. Even Celta understood this. The best spot for the kid development and to maximize his skills is simply as a LWF.
If you buy a young CF like Morata or belotti, it actually gives them the a longer time to play together and form a solid understanding. Rashford will still get his opportunity at CF due to switching during the game and/or absences due to injury, fatigue and/or suspension. But to make him the player that plays upfront for 40+ games would be bad for the kid imo. I would rather have those who are better built and can be more effective in that role do it.
Lol. Tbf I'd expect 15 goals when your team wins by plus 3 goals every week.
I understand where you're coming from but at the same time Rashford has scored almost every game he has started through the middle for us this season, his holdup and ability to bully defenders has progressed a ton too. Out wide he has struggled to make a big impact on games in terms of output and is wasted there at times in Mourinho's system which sees the left back stay on defensive duty and the winger on that side responsible for adding width, i think this has hurt Martials season too. I really think Rashford has the potential to become the complete number 9 over the next few years, although a season or two on the wing probably won't hurt. Even if teams defend deep against him his clever movement and link up play make him a threat and pace will only ever be a good thing for a striker to posses. Look at Aguero, arguably one of the best PL striker in history who is super effective against deep defences because his movement is so intelligent.
Rashford has grown from around 5'11 to 6'2 (imo the perfect height for a striker) since his debut and over the next year or two will get a lot stronger without necessarily adding any needless bulk due to the hormonal changes his body will be going through now. To be honest i'm suprised he hasn't majorly struggled this season as players who go through big growth spurts often do at first and Rashford himself did back when he was in the youth teams.
I just think if we buy a striker we should go for an older stop gap that Rashford can rotate with, play a bit on the wing and in a couple of seasons time make the position his own (if Mourinho doesn't think he can already).
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We can't be stalling this team to cater to any player, Jose likes a physical presence up top that can hold the ball up and act as a pivot for the 2 wider attackers, Morata fits the bill and would seem to be obtainable due to the likely De gea deal.
The defensive nature is more of a personnel problem and not ideology. At Madrid, Mourinho had Marcelo at LB and CR7 as LWF. Ronaldo rarely tracked back and played very cloe to the box while Marcelo played more like a right winger.
Aguero plays in a different system and when he was at Atletico played best as an SS along side Forlan. Even then he has had his injury problems. Those CFs just take a beating and you need to be physically durable to thrive in it.
By that logic let's look at where needs strengthening;
- Mkhi should be replaced as he has offered nothing 99% of the time he has played
- we need a left winger
- a left back
- a centre back to stop us catering for Smalling or Jones
- a couple of midfielders to stop Fellaini from stalling the team any more than he already has.
- A Rooney replacement
Jose is a great manager, capable of moulding a system around his players. I don't think he's so rigid that only one player type per position cut's the mustard in fact his history suggests otherwise. He cares more about a players mentality.
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Well that's 6 opinions for sure, but my point was we won't not buy a proper #9 purely to leave the way open for a 19 year old who might not even be a #9 long term and who doesn't have the characteristics the manager likes in his strikers, and who certainly doesn't fit with Griezmann who needs a target man to play off to be at his best. None of that effects any of the 6 opnions you have put forth. We need to buy a striker in the summer and we will IMO.
Griezmann is a very flexible player, he doesn't need a target man next to him to score goals. This season he has been partnered with Kevin Gameiro who stands at a whopping 5'6 and after a short adjustment period is consistently banging in the goals for Atletico again.
I agree that we will and should buy a 9 to compete with Rashford but we shouldnt be buying a big money 23 year old under any circumstance when we have a talent like Rashford coming through our own ranks. If we buy an older stop gap/rotation option it will be best for all parties. I would bet a toe that if Rashford came through Dortmunds academy people here would be begging to buy him to replace our own youngster breaking through.
What defines a proper 9? is Aguero a proper 9 or is Cavani a proper 9? It's not so cut and dry. Rashford has all the characteristics Mourinho loves in a striker. He's tall, fairly strong, fast, skillful and most of all is very mature and hard working, the rest will develop with playing time in the position and physical maturity.
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Griezmann has thrived most with a striker that can hold the ball up, the fact Rashford is worse at this than the guy you mentioned will be an issue, especially for a manager like Jose, plus you'll notice that Simeone has bought a striker each season since he lost Manduzick to find a contrast with Griezmann and none has really worked as they are still after a #9 and tried to bring Costa back.
We shouldn't be buying stop gaps when we don't have a single top striker in our ranks, we need a top #9 to be our main man, not some fill in whose only here so we can pander to Rashford, if he's truly as elite as you seem to think he is then he'll eventually take the slot, but we shouldn't just leave it open for him by buying some old option to stiuff in the squad so he has a free path.
This is what I think would be best value this summer
1. CF- Morata seems to be the best value in the market. Mandzukic or Dzeko might be a workable stop gap
2. CAM - Ozil or James seem the best value
3. DM - Fabinho. Matuidi has also been rumored but is not a normal DM. Matic would have been ideal or Wanyama if Spurs is selling.
4. CB - Keane is probably the best value and would address some aerial weakness. Lindelof will probablybe more expensive and dont see any other affordable or better option.
5. LB - Not convinced on anyone
Optional upgrades would be backup CF, additional CB, and backup RB
The first five I think we can accommodate with current vacancies but further additions would likely necessitate some sales to maintain appropriate squad size
Starting lineup would be
-Valencia---Bailly------Keane------LB-
-------------Fabinho--------------------
-----------------------Pogba----------
--Mkhi--------James----------------
---------------------------Rashford---
--------------Morata-----------------
1. CF- Morata seems to be the best value in the market. Mandzukic or Dzeko might be a workable stop gap
2. CAM - Ozil or James seem the best value
3. DM - Fabinho. Matuidi has also been rumored but is not a normal DM. Matic would have been ideal or Wanyama if Spurs is selling.
4. CB - Keane is probably the best value and would address some aerial weakness. Lindelof will probablybe more expensive and dont see any other affordable or better option.
5. LB - Not convinced on anyone
Optional upgrades would be backup CF, additional CB, and backup RB
The first five I think we can accommodate with current vacancies but further additions would likely necessitate some sales to maintain appropriate squad size
Starting lineup would be
-Valencia---Bailly------Keane------LB-
-------------Fabinho--------------------
-----------------------Pogba----------
--Mkhi--------James----------------
---------------------------Rashford---
--------------Morata-----------------
Agreed on Fabinho and Morata, I'd steer well clear of the other 2 though and Mhki shouldn't be a starting 11 guy ahead of Mata right now, he doesn't do nearly enough. I'd remove the Real cast off, put Herrera back in and buy Greizmann or Bernardo for the RW. The other issue here is Jose likes one defensive fullback which is why we are seeing more and more of Darmian, so we really could do with a proper wide player option in the squad as well.
This is a very simplistic way to look at those playing the CF position.
Starting to think we might gave to settle for Moratta. We hoped and planned for Ibra staying with Griezmann but are now left scrambling around for a top replacement. Think our shortlist looks like this:
1. Mbappe - turned down offer, will stay another year
2. Belotti - they don't want to sell this year either
3. Lukaku - Chelsea bound
4. Moratta - Real have been trying to offload for ages
10. Aguero
Surprised no links to Auba actually.
1. Mbappe - turned down offer, will stay another year
2. Belotti - they don't want to sell this year either
3. Lukaku - Chelsea bound
4. Moratta - Real have been trying to offload for ages
10. Aguero
Surprised no links to Auba actually.
and what would be the more sophisticated view?
Starting to think we might gave to settle for Moratta. We hoped and planned for Ibra staying with Griezmann but are now left scrambling around for a top replacement. Think our shortlist looks like this:
1. Mbappe - turned down offer, will stay another year
2. Belotti - they don't want to sell this year either
3. Lukaku - Chelsea bound
4. Moratta - Real have been trying to offload for ages
10. Aguero
Surprised no links to Auba actually.
Agreed. To have a front line capable of competing in all competitions, United need Rashford, Martial, Griezmann and a genuine number 9 target man. I think Ibra's injury will have changed the transfer plans. Moratta looks the best option and the deal would appear very possible if the De Gea move happens this summer.
It could be a huge summer of transfers.
I didn't say more sophisticated, I meant that it is a very simplistic and one-dimensional way to look at the position. Centre forwards don't need to be big and burly; Rashford's physique is just fine. Rather than get into physical battles with his opposing CBs, Rashford is more likely to take the mick out of them by getting in behind them/getting past them. That's not to say he'll shy away from the physical battle either, he's quite strong and nimble and will only improve on that as he gets older. He's quite adept at receiving the ball at feet with his back to goal as well, which is quite a critical skill for a CF.
I appreciate that you may be speaking in regard to Griezmann's potential presence in the team, and that we'd need a 'battering ram' style CF if we have Griezmann, but I still believe that Rashford is well equipped to play centrally, not right or left forward, irrespective of Griezmann's involvement. In fact, I believe that they'd link up very well, given both are very technical and thrive with fast one/two touch link up play.
Mkhi had is best season playing on the right flank for Dortmund and is better than Mata in that role. I expect him to play better next season after having time to settle into his new environment.
Bernardo Silva will likely not come cheap and given that we have others who can play well on the right flank, the money can be better spent elsewhere.
Mata is best deployed as the central attacking midfielder. If we dont get an upgrade then he will start there, but given how much we have struggled with creativity in the final third, I would expect an addition in this regards. James and Ozil are the only cheap options I can think of.
Herrera will start as a CM on the rare occasions we play a 3-man midfield, potentially as a DM against weaker opposition, and/or due to injury/suspension of either Pogba or DM. Herrera will not start in the base formation and even if we wanted to start him, the squad does not have the depth for a 3-man midfield (cos only sub would be Fellaini!). We are unlikely to buy the needed players to add that depth. Mourinho was successful with lesser players at Madrid (Alonso+Khedira) and Chelsea (Matic+Cesc) and given Pogba's abilities and the strength of the opposition, the 2-man midfield is almost a certainty.
it is not a case of liking one defensive fullback, but that for either full backs, defending comes first. At Porto, both Valente and Ferreira were allowed to bomb forward. But when he cannot get that almost perfect fullback (like Lahm) that can attack and defend, he sacrifices one flank for the other flank. What he does require though is that 3 of the back 4 have enough height which is why he liked playing Ivanovic at Chelsea.
Of course there are different types of CF that suit different system and styles, but the discussion is in the context of the current united team and I think my description is pretty accurate. I was speaking to the way Mourinho likes to play a lone CF, which means the CF is usually playing 1v2. Also Mourinho likes his team to use the long ball option on occasion which further puts the CF into those physical battles. Generally he likes CFs that can be physical and tie down the two CBs which then provides more space for other attackers. Its one of the reasons he didnt like playing with Benzema at Madrid, cos the 'cat' doesnt like getting into a dog fight.
Point taken, I just hope you're wrong, given that I love Rashford and I believe he has plenty of fight in him. A pair of CBs are just as frightened of a nippy agile CF as they are of a big bully. As per the long ball point you raise: Rashford has the threat in behind as well, which is just as good an out ball, and he will chase them all day. We shall see anyway, interesting developments, and you do raise some valid points.
United certainly need to invest in new striker for coming season whether its Morata or somebody else but they need to be in their prime or atleast approaching it .
Mourinho would need to have United competing for major trophies next season without doubt for sake of his future, so expecting him to rely on Rashford who frankly speaking has been quite underwhelming barring few games lately and who struggles majorly against half decent defences who are happy to sit back and defend in numbers thats more than 70% of teams we face in Epl would be a major gamble which Mourinho or United can't afford to take.
Mourinho would need to have United competing for major trophies next season without doubt for sake of his future, so expecting him to rely on Rashford who frankly speaking has been quite underwhelming barring few games lately and who struggles majorly against half decent defences who are happy to sit back and defend in numbers thats more than 70% of teams we face in Epl would be a major gamble which Mourinho or United can't afford to take.
We'd me much better off buying Bernardo to add creativity on the RW than playing a waster at #10, James isn't cheap either, and putting a player like him in means Pogba will be stuck too deep, it's just pissing more money away, and every time we move to a 3 we'd have no place for James because he's too slow and too lazy to operate as a wider player, there is zero need to buy expensive luxuries like him, and Mata's best football for us has come playing off the RW with freedom to roam, he's too weak and slow to play as an actual #10 and gets crowded out or bullied off the ball when he starts there, the RW floating option allows him to use his intelligence and movement to pick up pockets of space and effect the game.
This 4-2-3-1 is a complete waste of the unique talent of Pogba, put him in a 3 with another #8 that can alternate in pushing forward and you get the optimum use of him, not in a system where a lazy #10 like James takes up his space to burst into and create chances. As far as needing depth for the 4-3-3, we can buy another #8 instead of pissing away £60M on James, then along with Pereira coming back we'll have 4 options for the 2 #8 roles. You can't control games when you give up a spot in your midfield to a basic #10 who doesn't work hard.
Bar Porto he's consistently opted for one purely defensive fullback in his team, it's been a feature at Chelsea and Madrid in particular, the need for a tall fullback also really limits the options but I know Jose has his quirks. We could do with one proper wide man in the squad, he needn't be a starter but it's a good option to have as seen by all of the top teams in Europe bar Barca.
I dont see the space issue for Pogba in a 4-2-3-1 vs a 4-3-3. He will either share the space with the #10 or the other CM.
For adding depth in the 4-3-3, we will need more than another CM cos we still need to have a backup DM. With a 4-3-3 you have 3 slots and will need at least 2 quality backups. That means we need to sign two CM/DMs to avoid the nightmare that is Fellaini.
I have watched Pereira multiple times, including against Madrid today (which I am rewatching right now
) and I am not convinced he is at the level we need.The player I am intrigued by is Fosu-Mensah and would like to see him play more often in a CM/DM role. Not convinced of the RB experiment and think he looks a better prospect than Pereira for that role.
I agree we need more variation in the squad, but there are so many areas that need to be fixed in the starting XI that luxury options will likely not be addressed till next summer.
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