Álvaro Morata | Chelsea player

[el3mel]

No, what's happened here is you're reading into things and drawing incorrect conclusions. I'm sure Dybala is a much more difficult target to get because he's much more important to Juve. I just gave him as an example of one of a number of players who are a significant improvement on Morata if we're willing to widen our horizons a bit.

We do know that deals have been concluded in one conversation because the people who were involved in the deal said it. It's an incredibly unimportant and boring point anyway.

So why you gave example of Dybala and didn't give your example of the other easier players that can be an improvement on Morata ?

 

[roonster09]

I didn't say no one, I said many people. Was he a starter at Juventus? In his first season at Juventus in the league he started 11 games and 16 games in the second season. Many strikers score important goals for their team not just Morata, there are many average strikers who score important goals for their team. You want us to pay OTT for every player for the next couple of years?

In his first season at Juventus he started all the CL games in KO stages, he didn't start in 3 Group stages, apart from that he was starter in all games.
Next season, he started 6 out of 8 CL games.

He wasn't undisputed first 11 player but he was very much a starter in their CL games.

No i don't want us to over pay for every player but I don't mind overpaying for a player like Morata who is very good and will be important player for us.

 

[Brwned]

So why you gave example of Dybala and didn't give your example of the other players that can an improvement on Morata ?

He was the first one to come to mind. In this specific case, the difficulty of the negotiations is entirely irrelevant - what matters is if the negotiations are successful, not how long they take - and if he was to cost an extra £30m, I think most would say it's worth it.

 

[Android1974]

Anyone wants to bet Fellaini will be starting some pre-season friendlies as striker, even if Rashford and Martial are on the wings? Mourinho will insist on proving the point he needs strikers.

 

[Morpheus 7]

I would like Morata but not for the fee Real want. They want a joint record fee for a squad player, absolutely ridiculous. If we pay this it will have a knock on effect on the rest of our transfers. We should get De Gea tied down with a renewal if he stays this summer, cut ties with them for good in the future. They have fecked us so many times, no more business with them going forward.

 

[Android1974]

I would like Morata but not for the fee Real want. They want a joint record fee for a squad player, absolutely ridiculous. If we pay this it will have a knock on effect on the rest of our transfers. We should get De Gea tied down with a renewal if he stays this summer, cut ties with them for good in the future. They have fecked us so many times, no more business with them going forward.

Yeah, but the alternative? Paying the same or more for another striker Mourinho wants less?

 

[el3mel]

He was the first one to come to mind. In this specific case, the difficulty of the negotiations is entirely irrelevant - what matters is if the negotiations are successful, not how long they take - and if he was to cost an extra £30m, I think most would say it's worth it.

Not really, these kind of deals are only done if the team is stable and have a full squad of very good to great players that are challenging for and winning the league constantly so you can have you time to run behind Dybala for the whole summer without worrying about the quality of the squad even if you didn't complete any other transfer and even if you didn't get Dybala anyway. Madrid can do this with Mbappe because they aren't worried about the team for example.

We, on the other hand, need improvements on every aspect of the team and need building a strong team first by getting the realistic good targets, after this next couple of summers we can chase freely the heavy priced people without much worry about the team.

We can get Dybala for about 150-200m at the end of Aug without getting any other players but the team will still be lacking in many areas and it won't end well.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Anyone wants to bet Fellaini will be starting some pre-season friendlies as striker, even if Rashford and Martial are on the wings? Mourinho will insist on proving the point he needs strikers.

That wouldn't be so bad really. He is more an offensive player rather than defensive anyway. The further from the actions where he would need to do more tackles the better. I mean, if you see it that way, it really really really is not that bad.

Really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, it is not. IT IS NOT! REALLY!

 

[Android1974]

That wouldn't be so bad really. He is more an offensive player rather than defensive anyway. The further from the actions where he would need to do more tackles the better. I mean, if you see it that way, it really really really is not that bad., really, really, really, really, really, really, really, it is not. IT IS NOT! REALLY!

We won the Europa League with him playing as #10, so… Anyway, not the way we're hoping for the free flowing attacking football, is it?

 

[crossy1686]

Ffs. We'll need more firepower to improve our league position of 6th, never mind being competitive in the CL.

Hence the need for better wingers. If we would have had the midfield chipping in with Zlatan's goals last season we'd have finished in the top 4 no problem, maybe even challenged for the league.

 

[Brwned]

Not really, these kind of deals are only done if the team is stable and have a full squad of very good to great players that are challenging for and winning the league constantly so you can have you time to run behind Dybala for the whole summer without worrying about the quality of the squad even if you didn't complete any other transfer and even if you didn't get Dybala anyway. Madrid can do this with Mbappe because they aren't worried about the team for example.

We, on the other hand, need improvements on every aspect of the team and need building a strong team first by getting the realistic good targets, after this next couple of summers we can chase freely the heavy priced people without much worry about the team.

We can get Dybala for about 150-200m at the end of Aug without getting any other players but the team will still be lacking in many areas and it won't end well.

I think you severely understimate the size of our negotiating team and the capacity for people to do more than one thing at a time. The idea that going after a hard-to-get superstar prevents you from carrying out other transfer activity is very easily refuted by looking at the list of world record signings and who was signed alongside them that summer. It's also not very pertinent in this case because negotiating for Morata doesn't exactly seem to have been an easy task anyway.

 

[el3mel]

I think you severely understimate the size of our negotiating team and the capacity for people to do more than one thing at a time. The idea that going after a hard-to-get superstar prevents you from carrying out other transfer activity is very easily refuted by looking at the list of world record signings and who was signed alongside them that summer. It's also not very pertinent in this case because negotiating for Morata doesn't exactly seem to have been an easy task.

It's about the price paid not about dealing with more than one player. If you paid 150m for Dybala+30m for Lindelof then that's about 180m paid, if you want to get 2 other good players then we're talking of a budget at least 250-300m, something that I don't think a club has paid before in one summer.

When we paid 89m pounds for Pogba, the other transfers were Zlatan ( free ), Bailly ( 30m ) and Mikhi ( 26.5m ). We freed most of the budget for him. Something that won't happen this summer.

 

[Escobar]

Martial and Rashford are nowhere near good enough to be our only forwards.

For preseason

 

[Brwned]

It's about the price paid not about dealing with more than one player. If you paid 150m for Dybala+30m for Lindelof then that's about 180m paid, if you want to get 2 other good players then we're talking of a budget at least 250-300m, something that I don't think a club has paid before in one summer.

When we paid 89m pounds for Pogba, the other transfers were Zlatan ( free ), Bailly ( 30m ) and Mikhi ( 26.5m ). We freed most of the budget for him. Something that won't happen this summer.

Is the difference between spending £200m on Morata and co. vs. £250m on Dybala and co. really that significant? Regardless of that, I'd suggest if we signed Dybala we could afford to spend £50m less on other players given the added quality he'd provide, personally.

 

[Escobar]

It might (I doubt it) be good enough, if Mourinho knew/wanted to play with (two) mobile strikers who can't play against the goal. Maybe that's too much to ask him.

For preseason it is, for next season not. Add Morata, and we're fine with these 3 imo. All will get enough games which is crucial

 

[Android1974]

For preseason it is, for next season not. Add Morata, and we're fine with these 3 imo. All will get enough games which is crucial

Not even adding Morata will we be assured we're fine for next season. We've lost Zlatan and Rooney, and we couldn't score for s…

 

[el3mel]

Is the difference between spending £200m on Morata and co. vs. £250m on Dybala and co. really that significant? Regardless of that, I'd suggest if we signed Dybala we could afford to spend £50m less on other players given the added quality he'd provide, personally.

It's a difference in the market yes, with each player costing a load sum of money.

Dybala is a top quality addition but alone I don't think he solve all the main problems. I'm willing to run behind him if we secure other targets in attack and midfield, otherwise, I'll prefer to choose more realistic targets current!y and leave Dybala for later. He isn't going to leave Juve any soon anyway.

 

[windycityfan]

How far apart are we really? Madrid wants £79m. How much are we allegedly offering?

 

[devilish]

How far apart are we really? Madrid wants £79m. How much are we allegedly offering?

78.9m

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Is the difference between spending £200m on Morata and co. vs. £250m on Dybala and co. really that significant? Regardless of that, I'd suggest if we signed Dybala we could afford to spend £50m less on other players given the added quality he'd provide, personally.

I think Dybala is good player with potential to improve further, but I don't United need this type of player. At least not more than a 9 that would lead the line. United already have Mata, and Mkhi to play that position if needed.

 

[Android1974]

I think Dybala is good player with potential to improve further, but I don't United need this type of player. At least not more than a 9 that would lead the line. United already have Mata, and Mkhi to play that position if needed.

So why were we after Griezmann?

 

[Escobar]

Not even adding Morata will we be assured we're fine for next season. We've lost Zlatan and Rooney, and we couldn't score for s…

It would be a bit thin as we cant rely on both of them for a full season yet. And both played out wide and I don't see many players who could take their position. So adding one striker is a must for me

 

[Garethw]

We should make a final take-it-or-leave-it offer of say £70 million and walk away if it isn't accepted. They want to sell and would shit there pants if we walked away.

The crazy prices for the likes of Morata and Perisic are due to them knowing we are desperate and loaded with cash.

This posturing is due to the fact that these clubs know that we will cave in and pay up.

 

[Android1974]

We should make a final take-it-or-leave-it offer of say £70 million and walk away if it isn't accepted. They want to sell and would shit there pants if we walked away.

The crazy prices for the likes of Morata and Perisic are due to them knowing we are desperate and loaded with cash.

This posturing is due to the fact that these clubs know that we will cave in and pay up.

Not really. Inter doesn't want to get rid of Perišić and Real Madrid, despite the player being unsettled, won't get rid of him unless they get Mbappé, which is far from a certainty.

 

[windycityfan]

We should make a final take-it-or-leave-it offer of say £70 million and walk away if it isn't accepted. They want to sell and would shit there pants if we walked away.

The crazy prices for the likes of Morata and Perisic are due to them knowing we are desperate and loaded with cash.

This posturing is due to the fact that these clubs know that we will cave in and pay up.

No way. Not only we have identified the young striker to lead us ahead (and wants to come), it's also probably the best alternative in a rather dry (yet overpriced) market for the kind of asset we're seeking.

Get the deal done, and recoup the (alleged) £9m elsewhere.

 

[Brwned]

I think Dybala is good player with potential to improve further, but I don't United need this type of player. At least not more than a 9 that would lead the line. United already have Mata, and Mkhi to play that position if needed.

You're possibly right but the way I see it, Dybala is a guaranteed superstar whereas Mata and Mkhitaryan don't have that potential at all. Beyond that, I think he could play alongside one of them (probably not both) in a false 9 sort of role. Plus long-term it would leave the #9 spot open for Martial and Rashford. Bringing in Morata is probably the beginning of the end for Martial whereas Griezmann or Dybala or whoever else offer a bit more flexibility on that front. I've no idea how either Martial or Rashford will end up but it's disappointing to think we're sort of giving up on one of them in the search for short-term success. We made that choice when we brought in Mourinho I suppose.

 

[el3mel]

We should make a final take-it-or-leave-it offer of say £70 million and walk away if it isn't accepted. They want to sell and would shit there pants if we walked away.

The crazy prices for the likes of Morata and Perisic are due to them knowing we are desperate and loaded with cash.

This posturing is due to the fact that these clubs know that we will cave in and pay up.

Not really. They want him to stay and they can raise the money by selling James.

 

[Android1974]

You're possibly right but the way I see it, Dybala is a guaranteed superstar whereas Mata and Mkhitaryan don't have that potential at all. Beyond that, I think he could play alongside one of them (probably not both) in a false 9 sort of role. Plus long-term it would leave the #9 spot open for Martial and Rashford. Bringing in Morata is probably the beginning of the end for Martial whereas Griezmann or Dybala or whoever else offer a bit more flexibility on that front. I've no idea how either Martial or Rashford will end up but it's disappointing to think we're sort of giving up on one of them in the search for short-term success. We made that choice when we brought in Mourinho I suppose.

Bit weird after they both started playing forward in the last games of the season, when Zlatan got injured. To think they should go unchallenged by other forwards competition or that we should risk our success on their development is ludicrous.

 

[KarelPoborsky]

Madrid playing hardball was always likely after what happened with DDG a couple of seasons ago. They were always a hard team to do business with if you were buying from them.

Selling to them, they open their wallet and expect business to be done. Madrid the club is very pleasing on the eye with their football, Madrid the business is extremely cnuty

 

[Tiber]

Madrid playing hardball was always likely after what happened with DDG a couple of seasons ago. They were always a hard team to do business with if you were buying from them.

Selling to them, they open their wallet and expect business to be done. Madrid the club is very pleasing on the eye with their football, Madrid the business is extremely cnuty

It is extremely smart, wish United were as ruthless

 

[NotQuiteManc]

So why were we after Griezmann?

Good point. I almost forgot about him. That's how much I was disappointed because of that mini saga.

Having said that, probably United was trying to sign both of Morata and Griezmann, Morata being the 1st priority and Griezmann 3rd if you believe Di Marzio's tweet before. Perhaps, even the injury to Ibra caused the priority changes or shift of targets for attackers. Hence, Morata's name thrown into the hat only during this summer. I may be wrong though, but compared to Griezmann, his name has been in the rumour mill since before the summer break.

 

[Android1974]

Good point. I almost forgot about him. That's how much I was disappointed because of that mini saga.

Having said that, probably United was trying to sign both of Morata and Griezmann, Morata being the 1st priority and Griezmann 3rd if you believe Di Marzio's tweet before. Perhaps, even the injury to Ibra caused the priority changes or shift of targets for attackers. Hence, Morata's name thrown into the hat only during this summer. I may be wrong though, but compared to Griezmann, his name has been in the rumour mill since before the summer break.

Griezmann was clearly a first option. The point of contention is that he's not an usual Mourinho type of forward, so it was legitimate to speculate we were going to change tactically. Losing him reverts the plan or does Morata fit in them?

 

[GlastonSpur]

.... Madrid wants £79m. ...

United will be acting very stupidly if they pay that price for a striker who might not do all that well in the Prem, might not settle in England and probably would prefer to stay with Real Madrid all things being equal.

 

[Raoul]

United will be acting very stupidly if they pay that price for a striker who might not do all that well in the Prem, might not settle in England and probably would prefer to stay with Real Madrid all things being equal.

That's the new market price this year. Ordinarily 40m or thereabouts would've been the going rate for a player like Morata. Sadly, prices have gone up by 50-75% after the Pogba deal.

 

[royboy16]

We should make a final take-it-or-leave-it offer of say £70 million and walk away if it isn't accepted. They want to sell and would shit there pants if we walked away.

The crazy prices for the likes of Morata and Perisic are due to them knowing we are desperate and loaded with cash.

This posturing is due to the fact that these clubs know that we will cave in and pay up.

Im not so sure.If these prices are true they obviously value him and will do what they can to hold on to him even if that means asking for a huge fee which will play into their hands as they want to keep him and don't want him to leave.

 

[el3mel]

United will be acting very stupidly if they pay that price for a striker who might not do all that well in the Prem, might not settle in England and probably would prefer to stay with Real Madrid all things being equal.

This line can be applied on any foreign player coming to England.

People need to stop treating EPL as a league coming from another planet. Any player can succeed in any league if he has quality.

 

[cyberman]

Does the fact he returned to his honeymoon not tell us he's all but signed?
Go enjoy the rest of the week, we'll make it official just before Sunday when you fly out on tour....

 

[SachinJ22]

In his first season at Juventus he started all the CL games in KO stages, he didn't start in 3 Group stages, apart from that he was starter in all games.
Next season, he started 6 out of 8 CL games.

He wasn't undisputed first 11 player but he was very much a starter in their CL games.

No i don't want us to over pay for every player but I don't mind overpaying for a player like Morata who is very good and will be important player for us.

But he wasn't a starter in the league, if he was that good he would have started in the league games also. He might be good but can he lead the attack on his own like Zlatan? According to you he scores important goals, there are many other players who score important goals for their team, does that mean they are good enough for us? If you think he is very good that's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. You guys are saying we aren't going for Lacazette or Aubameyang because they aren't Mourinho type players, was Griezmann a Mourinho type player? We tried to sign Griezmann because he is a consistent goal scorer, even Aubameyang is a consistent goal scorer but no let's spend 80m on a player who has never been a main striker and hope that he can score 15+ goals in the league in his first season.

 

[roonster09]

United will be acting very stupidly if they pay that price for a striker who might not do all that well in the Prem, might not settle in England and probably would prefer to stay with Real Madrid all things being equal.

United will be stupid not to pay that much, might win the league, might win the CL and might go on to become ManUtd record goal scorer and finish his career as ManUtd legend.

Assumptions eh..

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Griezmann was clearly a first option. The point of contention is that he's not an usual Mourinho type of forward, so it was legitimate to speculate we were going to change tactically. Losing him reverts the plan or does Morata fit in them?

Perhaps you are right as well, but we wouldn't know for sure. Him being "3rd on the priority list" probably just means he is more attainable than Morata if not for the ban. Whether only one of them, or both (or all three if you want to include Mbappe) is included in this summer transfer's plan, again we wouldn't know for sure.

I would think because of the ban, Morata became the 1st priority with the idea of getting Griezmann in January the earliest. My bet would be next summer, hence Dybala's name is not in the list at the moment.

Now that Griezmann's plan on hold, in terms of tactic, I would think both Rashford and Martial will contest for the position of LW mainly, while being options for ST as well. Rashford might play as RW as well giving United that similar Rooney Ronaldo Tevez style. Fantasy wise, that would be fun to watch, but realistically, in terms of individual performances, those two are not yet consistent performers unlike Rooney and Ronaldo in their younger years.