That’s all part of the insane hagiography built up around her.”She’s a shit dancer but that’s actually amazing, if you really think about it!”
Music Taylor Swift
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
I don't know, I think her girl-next-door vibe is quite important in a marketing sense.
Oh I’m sure it is. Just think it’s funny that it’s being spun as some sort of hidden depths.
It's hard to tell with you, to be fair.
I think it's more a bit of a dig and some sort of explanation at the scale of her appeal.
The Swift show I saw the only grown men carrying on emotionally were very flamboyant and most likely gay men.
Agreed. I've tried expressing the sensation of being surrounded by that much positivity, especially for a demographic (i.e., the objects of the male gaze - the overwhelming victims of sexual violence, the ones who are murdered most often by their boyfriends and husbands - that can finally relax at one of her shows.
I've been to 1,000 shows. This was a unique vibe. I've been at several "hot" bands' first US shows (The Cult [apparently a word filter, so this word describes organizations like People's Temple, Branch Davidians, Heaven's Gate et al.], The Jesus & Mary Chain, Ned's Atomic Dustbin, Arctic Monkeys, Glasvegas). The excitement was palpable, but it was not this. I've seen bands' reunion shows after thinking it would never happen (The Chameleons, Sunny Day Real Estate, Gang Of Four, Jawbreaker, Bauhaus, Refused) - the crowd emotions were high, but nothing like this. I've been to secret shows that were held in coffee shops (Melt Banana, Red Krayola, Weezer, Foo Fighters, Sonic Youth) where you felt like you were seeing something rare and special, and again, nothing like this. I've been left bewildered and slack jawed after seeing a band so good it blew away other shows (NoMeansNo, Fugazi). I've stage dived and gotten in fights (NOFX, Rancid, MDC, Shelter), where my blood was absolutely pumping. I've met women at gigs who I ended up dating. I've gone through the emotions. I've done a lot more than just stand and sing along.
I think that's someone not understanding that Swift's started journaling her experiences as a 15 year old, so young kids will identify with that more readily. But then Swift has released 10 more albums, and those same 9 year olds on her first record are now 29. They grew up with her. Her music soundtracked various events in their lives. The show I saw, there were a ton of kids, but it was nothing compared to Spice Girls, which was entirely children and their moms. Swift serves as surrogate, big sister, confidante for 20 years' worth of music fans. Swift is non-threatening, by design. She's not a dancer: she walks and poses. She's relatable. She talks about being relentlessly bullied, about having very public feuds with people, with being betrayed by close friends. These are relatable topics. It's almost a rite of passage now. An older sister brings her younger sister/cousin. There are also "clean" versions of her albums that have alts for the swear words, so it's kid-friendly.
Read: approachable. She's a superstar, which is not mundane, but she is not some virtuoso talent, some shredder, or vocal gymnast.
I think you want something from a live show different from a lot of people. I think it's boring as feck when the crowd isn't singing along.
Boomer part sounds accurate. The show I saw was closer 80-20 female to male ratio. There were no other males in my entire section, for instance.
I think also that any male is not going to have Swift's lyrics or songs resonate with them in quite the same manner as a female. A person's emotional state has a lot to do with it. Swift encourages the crowd to feel it.Cool cool! You 2 are definitely her biggest cheerleaders. I was replying specifically to that post where you were being pithy with a guy that was calling you out - though in fairness, I was just reading speedily and genuinely a little bit fatigued by "repeat offenders" in this thread - apologies if that's not your case
As for the breakind down/meltdown conversations, I think there's a lot to do with demographics (a lot of her fans are teens), and for some adults, I guess it's the connection going back 10-15 years with her music?
A few years ago I broke down at a Gorillaz concert, I'd gone through a really hard year, and it wasn't the genius of lyrics of "kids with guns" or anything that got to me, rather the nostalgia completely submerging me when I was in a rather vulnerable emotional situation. I think it's fine that music can do it and trying to rationalise it doesn't make much sense.
Yep. This has always been there, though. Someone always going to say you just don't know as much as me that's why your tastes are so pedestrian. Tiresome.
Better isn't the same as more liked. I like a ton of bands better than I like The Beatles, but I would never say they are better bands or even that they wrote better music than The Beatles. Musicianship and technicality I don't give a feck about. I don't listen to Dream Theater. Music that was a part of my formative years is going to have deeper resonance for me than music that is objectively better. An example from another milieu: Spielberg makes expertly crafted films, and I can't stand them.
Bless you, my son.
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You should be grateful. Caftards are protecting you. Talking poorly about TS on the internet is like criticizing the church in the 16th century.
https://www.businessinsider.com/harassment-taylor-swift-fan-base-worse-than-far-right-hate-2023-6
https://stylecaster.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/1656617/i-dont-like-taylor-swift/
https://rock929rocks.com/listicle/i-learned-the-hard-way-dont-mess-with-taylor-swift-fans/
www.thestar.com/entertainment/taylor-swift-s-fans-are-cyberbullying-john-mayer-again-and-giving-all-swifties-a-bad/article_7e5366a5-4cb1-5bff-9cac-478755c9bf9a.amp.html
https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...f-taylor-swift-album-release-avid-fan-culture
In a way I guess I should be grateful for the shot across my bows.Fair go I’m replying to a single line… but this just makes me giggle. She’s singing hollow and hacky lyrics to children and adults that should really be listening to stuff that’s better written.
EVERY decent artist encourages the crowd to feel the art. But they back it up with better content. She’s a global Robbie Williams or Oasis. It’s real lowest common denominator stuff.
If it helps you tell me I’m a wrong headed heathen, my favourite gig moments from single people on stage with a crowd under their spell;
- Pearl Jam; Yellow Ledbetter under full house lights, past curfew in Hyde Park
- Eddie Vedder; Rockin’ in the Free World, also under full house lights in Berlin.
- John Mayer; In Repair in Brixton.
- LCD Soundsystem; All My Friends at Brixton Academy.
I could name another 100+ moments from other gigs that make Swifts performance look cartoonish.
She seems to summon this idea that ‘this is the best thing ever’ when she’s really just trotting out a pretty polished and professional set. The people that are banging the drum for her have no idea about how transcendent real live music can be. It just seems to be “Yaaaay Tay-Tay!”
As I said above, I think she put on a really good show. I can see why my daughter and other young kids liked it. But adults? Really don’t get it.
This is exactly the kind of takes I'm talking about. Daft.
Not really. She’s spoken about in really big terms.
Reality is that she’s Ed Sheeran/Coldplay levels of consumable talent with a fan base that invests more into the art than it’s truly worth.
You’re not getting the point. Swift encourages her fans to feel the occasion, the moment, like when there’s an extended pause for cheering/applause/screaming at the end of Champagne Problems. This ovation goes for 5-10 minutes, depending on the crowd. So it’s literally no music and no lyrics at this moment of bonding with her fans.
If the shows you listed are what moves you, great. I don’t share your enthusiasm for those bands (other than LCD). You don’t rate Swift, got it.
Worse than.
It genuinely is. But I expect nothing less in this thread.
I am getting the point. I just see what you’re describing as a very silly construct.
The show of appreciation comes pre encore. ‘Allowing’ people to applaud and cheer for 5-10 minutes after a song isn’t some avante garde service to fans. It’s banal and boring and corrupts the whole artist-fan contract.
It’s truly great if you like that aspect. But it also should be fine for you to accept that people on the outside looking in, think it’s childish.
I liked her show. It was fun and bouncy and she carried a crowd for a long time. But it’s very algorithmic. Lowest common denominator by the numbers nonsense.
In my opinion, The artists job is to hold the crowd in The Palm of their hand and use tension and the release of it as means to heighten the experience. The modern cohort of ‘stars’ don’t really do that. It’s very weird to me.
It takes place nowhere near the encore of the show. You don’t get the Swift experience, and you don’t get her music. I have reached the conclusion that you’re not a big fan. So you’ve stated this, in several insulting sentences, and made yourself heard. Do you need to hang around in this thread still?
Probably not.
But the “you don’t get it” suggests you’re talking about an artist with genuine depth. You’re actually talking about self affirming fandom. Which is totally cool! Enjoy what you love. I had a really fun time at her gig and I’d see her again if it was cheap enough.
But I’ll never really be convinced that most of the adults attending (the teens get a pass) aren’t akin to adults going to Comic Con. In that they’re consuming something that they love, having a great Fcuking time doing it, somehow extracting more joy from it than I do anything. But deliberately blind to the fact that the popular totality of it, isn’t really great art. It’s just popular.
But yeah. That’s me done. Do your thing bud.
No, you simply don't get what makes Swift special to her fans. it’s not a value statement, like the statements of condemnation you enjoy making, it’s just factual. Trying to help you understand what this is, is not me trying to convince you, because it makes no difference to me what you like. Not everything is meant for everyone. The problem is your firmly held belief that Swift basically sucks and her fans are too stupid to know it is what grates. And to be honest, I can’t help but laugh when I read you praising John Mayer and Pearl Jam. To each his own. Good day, sir.
Any grown man who likes her is just a strange human being. 15 year old girls who have had a bad break up, fair enough.
Not at all man! She makes some good pop songs. She doesn’t suck. I enjoyed her show! But I’ve also taken my daughter to Billie Eilish and Beyonce. We’ve seen Self Esteem together. The latter two are miles ahead in crowd control (especially Rebecca) and not letting reality in is mad.
Regarding Mayer… one of the best Guitar players of all time. Top 5 that’s still playing I reckon. And Vedder?… one of Grunge/‘soft’ rocks best front men. Go at them all you like. I wasn’t saying ‘My fave beats yours’. I just gave you a few examples of top level crowd engagement and experience.
Good day to you to sir x
I like a lot of these references. Good call.
I guess I was trolled. I'm not good with this Twitter/Tik Tok era of online interaction
In my experience he's right. The Taylor Swift fans I know have no real frame of refernence, They are frequently TS fans much moreso than music fans.
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Firstly, that doesn't matter because their experiences are as real as any other people's experiences (materless if you've been to 5 or 500 other shows). Even if they won't be as big fans as they grow older they will probably never have those kind of concert experiences again because it's quite special.
Anyway, that post was literally in reply to a poster saying he's been to a 1000 shows. It doesn't make any sense to say such a thing in response to that.
I know a lot of a Swift fans in my age (in my thirties) and we all thought it was a phenomenal show. We've all been around to gigs. Again, an absolutely daft thing to say. If you can't see why that is, I don't know what to say to you.
How can it be daft to relay what it is in my experience, prefixed with 'in my experience'.? I have explained how I mostly know abut TS through my teen daughters and their friends. We just have a different relationship with the phenomenon. It a big world. I think a football forum is not the ideal place for the sort of TS thread you want.
Of my daughters and their mates, they all loved TS as 13 year olds. The ones attending the gig in Dublin in a few weeks still love TS obviously, but they haven't expanded their musical likes, they don't eem to have any interest. The other kids, who attended the Smashing Pumpikins have broadened their horizons and all but one has left TS behind. So we have a 17 year attending only for nostalgia. That's a fact, you can call it daft, ot ignore it but it's part of a discussion. They exist, it could be an anomaly. But that's what I thought boomer fans were until I read that 25% of her fans were of that age group. More data is good. Don't be gettng upset if you don't like it. That's daft in my opinion.
You just don't want to hear anyone who disagrees with you despite what you say.
I don't care about other opinions in the sense that you don't agree with me about Taylor Swift. I have made this clear over and over.
What I do care about is making sweeping generalizations about other people's experiences and opinions. That's daft.
Again voicing an opinion that Swift sucks is fine. Telling other people they like this or that because they don't have the frame of reference is feckin' moronic. You don't really know why other people like things. How can you not see the difference?
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This thread, man.
I've never really listened to TS unless forced to (karaoke sessions, etc), she's just not my cup of tea. However, my go-to local radio station has been blasting her songs on repeat recently and whilst I didn't know those songs were by her initially, the lyrics were completely terrible and of zero substance. I heard "I think of jumping off very tall somethings" and wondered why the feck the song was being on national fecking radio (talking about committing suicide) so I shazamed it and realised it was TS. Why are people even listening to her if her lyrics are shit? This is a country where the government cancelled a black metal concert because "it got reports that the mainstream Christians were very concerned and offended by the band" wtf.
Oh they're already out in swarms calling him washed up and old.
There is more talent in Dave Grohl's fingernail than Swift has. Yet all the sheep pay a fortune to see her
Swift doesn't play live ?
Oh, you are one of those.
Nobody comes for Dave. I'll feck them all up by myself for that blasphemy!
Won't be hard, I'll just spray lynx africa over a volcano and watch them lemmings it.
Is that her actual voice? Or a parody?
I have no idea but they totally butchered that song.
Edit: I listened again and I think it's her voice.
Feck me.
To be fair, being a good singer does not necessarily make you a good rapper. Her voice is about as unsuited for rap as it gets