Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I have an irrational need to ask the following: have the likes of Stephen Colbert, John Oliver, Meyers etc shared their views on what's happening in Gaza?

Not that I expect comedians to solve world crises but more in the context of highlighting the Biden administration's absurdity on this subject. Or do only Republicans get made fun of?
 
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Two Egyptian soldiers have been killed in a crossfire exchange at the Rafah crossing according to the Israeli media.

Both sides are saying the other started firing first.
 
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
 
e.cantona said:
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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So, he presented multiple shit points. Good to know.
 
e.cantona said:
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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Hamas' numbers are usually accurate. When you think about it logically, they have no reason to lie about the death count of Palestinian civilians.
 
e.cantona said:
Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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Don't most international organizations agree that the hamas numbers are generally accurate?
 
maniak said:
Don't most international organizations agree that the hamas numbers are generally accurate?
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There have been credible accusations that in previous rounds of conflict in Gaza they have classified some of their fighters as civilians and those killed by their own rocket fire as casualties of Israeli strikes.

The main argument I’ve seen in regards to their numbers in this conflict is that while in previous rounds there have always been independent organizations present in Gaza to verify/confirm the numbers published by Hamas, in this case all those organizations have left, leaving Hamas free to inflate the death toll. However I have only really seen this argument put forward by Israeli advocacy sources.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
Hamas' numbers are usually accurate. When you think about it logically, they have no reason to lie about the death count of Palestinian civilians.
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You've asked him to think logically which is a tough ask.

There hasn't been an precedence of Hamas numbers being inaccurate. If anything the numbers are conservative, there are plenty lost under the rubble that haven't been counted.
 
2cents said:
There have been credible accusations that in previous rounds of conflict in Gaza they have classified some of their fighters as civilians and those killed by their own rocket fire as casualties of Israeli strikes.

The main argument I’ve seen in regards to their numbers in this conflict is that while in previous rounds there have always been independent organizations present in Gaza to verify/confirm the numbers published by Hamas, in this case all those organizations have left, leaving Hamas free to inflate the death toll. However I have only really seen this argument put forward by Israeli advocacy sources.
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Fair enough, thanks for the info.
 
e.cantona said:
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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This is not war. This is massacre
 
e.cantona said:
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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People are annoyed at the article because the author begins with the premise that Israel is waging its war justly and with regard to collateral damage. This is a laughable and idiotic thing to believe in late may 2024, IMO. It's also annoying that the premise is largely hidden.
 
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Idxomer said:
He has good company.

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Disingenuous tweet. There is a difference between pointing out that there are circumstances where it is legal to kill someone under 18 and KSM. For instance, if a 15 year old is holding a gun on you and shooting at you, it is legal to kill that 15 year old in self defense.

Il Prete Rosso said:
Hamas' numbers are usually accurate. When you think about it logically, they have no reason to lie about the death count of Palestinian civilians.
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Logically, Hamas has every incentive to present the deaths of combatants as civilians.
 
e.cantona said:
As far as I can read into that article, the point he's making that got people up in arms, is war is ugly and innocents will die. Including children. Dosen't make it any less awful that the war is "just". Also, a larger and important point, the death toll being used is not very reliable. Hamas being the source of it.
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He's also critical of the IDF for not allowing journos into Gaza and points out discrepancies between the IDF's numbers on Hamas members killed being different than Netanyahu's. All things said, there's plenty of criticism to go around and it should come as no surprise that both sides are inflating the numbers to drive public opinion towards their respective narratives.
 


"A tragic mistake," said a genocidal maniac about people being burned alive and babies losing their heads.
 
Idxomer said:
Two Egyptian soldiers have been killed in a crossfire exchange at the Rafah crossing according to the Israeli media.

Both sides are saying the other started firing first.
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Couldn't have been Israel. They never start wars or do anything wrong. I'm sure it's Egypt's fault. Also INSERT SOMETHING about anti-Semitism.
 
Idxomer said:


"A tragic mistake," said a genocidal maniac about people being burned alive and babies losing their heads.
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At least he is admitting it, which at a later date can be used as evidence against him and whichever military commander actually ordered the bombing.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Hamas numbers can never be trusted. All they desire is to provoke Israel into attacks then make them look as bad as possible after. They don't value the lives of their own civilians at all. This time the baited Israel real good and they walked right into the trap. Its sad what the ordinary people have to suffer as a result.
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Israel don't need to be baited, they've cherished any opportunity they can get to massacre as many civilians as possible to make room for their colonial project.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Hamas numbers can never be trusted. All they desire is to provoke Israel into attacks then make them look as bad as possible after. They don't value the lives of their own civilians at all. This time the baited Israel real good and they walked right into the trap. Its sad what the ordinary people have to suffer as a result.
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Look what you made me do to you. :lol:

Are you not ashamed of the victim blaming?
 
Kaos said:
Israel don't need to be baited, they've cherished any opportunity they can get to massacre as many civilians as possible to make room for their colonial project.
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I really envy your patience with such disingenuous posts that are borderline evil.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
Hamas' numbers are usually accurate. When you think about it logically, they have no reason to lie about the death count of Palestinian civilians.
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maniak said:
Don't most international organizations agree that the hamas numbers are generally accurate?
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Sky1981 said:
This is not war. This is massacre
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Iker Quesadillas said:
People are annoyed at the article because the author begins with the premise that Israel is waging its war justly and with regard to collateral damage. This is a laughable and idiotic thing to believe in late may 2024, IMO. It's also annoying that the premise is largely hidden.
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Hamas' numbers are something like 35.000. That includes all deaths, I belive. Hamas fighters, women and children. Deaths by Hamas' failed rockets fired towards Israel and I think some argue natural caused deaths as well. Israel claim to have killed 13-14.000 Hamas fighters. I belive this is below, by some margin, other urban area "wars" faught in the past. In Mosul vs ISIS I think the ratio was 2.5:1, civilian dead vs ISIS fighters. And this is if one was to belive Hamas' numbers.

Raoul said:
He's also critical of the IDF for not allowing journos into Gaza and points out discrepancies between the IDF's numbers on Hamas members killed being different than Netanyahu's. All things said, there's plenty of criticism to go around and it should come as no surprise that both sides are inflating the numbers to drive public opinion towards their respective narratives.
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Agree. Hamas is winning the PR war.
 
Kaos said:
Israel don't need to be baited, they've cherished any opportunity they can get to massacre as many civilians as possible to make room for their colonial project.
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You would think that nothing happened before October 2023.
 
e.cantona said:
Hamas' numbers are something like 35.000. That includes all deaths, I belive. Hamas fighters, women and children. Deaths by Hamas' failed rockets fired towards Israel and I think some argue natural caused deaths as well. Israel claim to have killed 13-14.000 Hamas fighters. I belive this is below, by some margin, other urban area "wars" faught in the past. In Mosul vs ISIS I think the ratio was 2.5:1, civilian dead vs ISIS fighters. And this is if one was to belive Hamas' numbers.
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You are extremely uninformed on the subject I see.
 
JPRouve said:
You would think that nothing happened before October 2023.
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Or before 1987 - ie the year Hamas were founded. Or in the West Bank, where Hamas have close to zero presence. But yes, it's all a case of those masterminds Hamas baiting Israel into a "look what you made me do" massacre. Imagine what the region would look like if there were no Hamas - and imagine if it were called the West Bank.
 
maniak said:
There is no way that only 35k people have died so far.
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It's 45k if you count the missing people and that's just from the bombing and Israeli fire. It's likely quite a bit more than that when you count the people dying from diseases and epidemics. We still have no idea how many indirect deaths this genocide has caused and will continue to cause. In Yemen for example, most of the deaths were due to indirect causes from the war.
 
Kaos said:
Or before 1987 - ie the year Hamas were founded. Or in the West Bank, where Hamas have close to zero presence. But yes, it's all a case of those masterminds Hamas baiting Israel into a "look what you made me do" massacre. Imagine what the region would look like if there were no Hamas - and imagine if it were called the West Bank.
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Or 1967 when they started a war and occupied the whole region. Or 1948 when they also started a war by ethnically cleansing 700k Palestinian from the homes in the middle of the night.
 
Kaos said:
Or before 1987 - ie the year Hamas were founded. Or in the West Bank, where Hamas have close to zero presence. But yes, it's all a case of those masterminds Hamas baiting Israel into a "look what you made me do" massacre. Imagine what the region would look like if there were no Hamas - and imagine if it were called the West Bank.
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Honestly it's grim and tiring. I don't know if people genuinely didn't follow the news in Israel/Palestine or if they are professional gaslighters.
 
maniak said:
There is no way that only 35k people have died so far.
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According to WHO, 35k+ is the real amount of death, civilian or not. Out of those, 25k have been identified and 60% are children or women.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Logically, Hamas has every incentive to present the deaths of combatants as civilians.
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Why is it logical for them to inflate? Has 70 years of 1000s of Palestinian deaths changed Israeli or western policy? Frankly 100k children could be easily exterminated and not a single democracy on this planet will push for enforcing international law.
 
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