Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[glazed]

Ole came second only three years ago, mate. Leicester won the league in 2015/16 doing that. However, ETH hss not progressed the team from counter-attacking football in the slightest. His first season was basically oleball, this season was a suicidal "transition" style that was ultimately all about counter attacks. He is getting sacked for a bad style of play and awful results.

Only three years ago? The reality is that the top half of the EPL has become dominated by Pep/Klopp knock offs and Ole's second and Leicester were both flukes of other big teams being in the kind of transition that we have put off too long. And so we are trying to do it in much more difficult circumstances when good players aren't interested in coming to our graveyard of reputations and FFP makes it harder to wave the chequebook.

ETH's chosen style was indeed suicidal - made so by bad transfers (which ETH had a hand in but mainly down to the club's incompetence) and too many injuries (and the injuries were a result of a thin squad and other structural problems in the club, not a coincidence). Reverting back to Oleball as he did at Wembley would have saved his season but at a huge cost in the club development he was employed to make happen. The next manager will face the same problem unless we are very clever with transfers this summer.

 

[Lynty]

Other than his poor transfers (even Licha seems like he was second choice to Timber) I’ve never been Ten Hag out. You don’t become a poor manager after one poor season.

The main point people throw at him (…not changing his tactics/team selection when we were being over ran in midfield game after game) I actually admire him for sticking to his principles and asking the players to play the way he wants.

There’s really no harm in letting him have a third season. It can’t be worse than this season.

 

[edgecutter]

Imagine if Martial had played and scored yesterday. All would be forgiven with him too.

 

[GreatDane]

I think they have made their minds up but are just giving the illusion of a delay or 'considering' just for PR.

This is what I think also. Let the euphoria settle a bit first.

 

[MadMike]

Got them playing much better football than we play. If they'd had Nkunku fit to translate that +10 on their expected goals into real goals, they'd have been pushing Villa for top 4.

Didn't even need that many really. They only finished out of top 4 because they lost to Villa at home. Which only happened because Malo Gusto got a (deserved) straight red card while the game was in the balance at 0-0 with Chelsea marginally on top. Villa went on to score against 10 men and win the game.

If Chelsea had beaten Villa at Stamford Bridge with all else remaining the same (silly assumption, I know) they would have finished 4th on 66 points, due to the better GD than Spurs. They would be in the UCL and Villa would be 6th with 65 points and in the Conference League. Just in case anyone is wondering how small these margins are.

 

[glazed]

Well all you backing him now better not make a peep when the beginning of next season is a disaster and we end up sacking him in October and then appoint Southgate because he’s the only available option.

(1) I'm backing him.
(2) He's getting sacked this week.

 

[edgecutter]

Most opposition fans seem to be happy that we are keeping him on for another season. Does that not say something?

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think he's definitely getting the sack tbh. The club could easily issue a statement to the contrary but have chosen not to.

 

[Idxomer]

The swing in votes is incredible, never seen a poll change here this quick. It was like 75% in favour of his sacking a couple of days ago.

A trophy each season after more than 5 years without one is a decent achievement. Shame that his team played a relegated candidate for most of the season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Most opposition fans seem to be happy that we are keeping him on for another season. Does that not say something?

Most opposition fans have been delighted with pretty much all of our post-Fergie appointments...

 

[Hypnus]

The season is finally over, and the time has come for INEOS to make a decision on ten Hag. Personally, I don't think they have decided whether they want to keep him or if they're going to fire him.

The main reason for that is that there are no clear replacements. McKenna is inexperienced and unproven at a top club, Tuchel always falls out with some of the players, De Zerbi really isn't that good, so who else is there? Pochettino?

It has to be said that ten Hag has been very unlucky with injuries. It's clear that just having Varane and Martinez fit and available makes such a huge difference, and Shaw as well.

What I will never understand, though, and one of the reasons I wanted him out, is how he consistently lined up with Casemiro and Mainoo behind Bruno. It just doesn't work, never has and never will, yet he kept going with it. He is so incredibly stubborn, and has shown it so many times, like with rewarding Rashford, Casemiro and Antony with more playing time despite being horrendous in most matches. How can you manage a top team, and not try to make changes to something that doesn't work? To me, it is unfathomable, and even though I really wanted for ten Hag to succeed, some of the things he did are just unacceptable for a club like ours.

 

[TheNewEra]

I think he's definitely getting the sack tbh. The club could easily issue a statement to the contrary but have chosen not to.

Then we would have 100 club statements this year.

 

[DJ_21]

Got them playing much better football than we play. If they'd had Nkunku fit to translate that +10 on their expected goals into real goals, they'd have been pushing Villa for top 4.

If they had 1 player fit they’d of made top 4? We’ve had a full defence out most of season. If we had Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, all fit we might not have finished 10th and wouldn’t be conceding lots of goals/chances.

 

[Stadjer]

Most opposition fans seem to be happy that we are keeping him on for another season. Does that not say something?

Opposition of Arsenal were happy that Arsenal kept Arteta. Turned out okay for Arsenal, i dont think opponent fans opinions count for much.

 

[stevoc]

And where have we heard that before? David Moyes will be the perfect plain speaking Scottish manager post Sir Alex. Louis Van Gaal is a big name manager with the European sophistication to put United up there in the Champions League again and win titles. Mourinho has done it all, he will do it again with United. We need Ole to take United back to its signature style of football and English spine.

Manchester United`s problem is managerial musical chairs. Sacking Ten Hag who has shown some backbone in dealing with players who would have been shown the door under Sir Alex but were allowed to stay and whiteant club morale and disrespect managers.

Probably in 1986 when Big Ron was still the manager.

We haven`t seen anything like the Ferguson teams` hunger and desire especially from players who`d won so much since he departed. Moyes was the big mistake especially when he managed to piss off and underutilise/mismanage a team of winners. However, post Moyes there was too much tolerance of players undermining the club in one way or another and too many names who weren`t dropped or sold when they should have been. What the United club culture has become is the problem, not Ten Hag.

No idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[BorisManUtd]

We won the Fa Cup with van Gaal on 21st May and then on 23rd it was announced he got sacked. Think it would've been the same with ten Hag if we lost yesterday. However, we won and now the decision may not be public until end of next week or something like that. Doesn't seem like they'll offer him a new contract so either going to part ways with him or let him go into next season and save his job with his contract expiring.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Then we would have 100 club statements this year.

I don't follow?

The noise the last few days about him being sacked has been incredible. Every post match interview specifically focused on the topic. Why not release a brief statement saying that he will be in charge next season? I assume it's because he won't be.

 

[stevoc]

yeah, absolutely. There’d be a fair number of United fans though, one would assume.

Of course, no idea how many though.

 

[tjb]

Would be insane to keep him. A case of hearts trumping heads, in my opinion, but it wouldn’t be the first time at this club

This is why INEOS is here. Hate it or love it, people won't like to admit it, but the Glazers/Woodward always went with the fickle sway of fans in their decision making. I'm sure they would have kept LVG too if it wasn't for prior agreements made with Jose. This reminds me of the Ole situation. Yet fans here always act like the club should have made the smart decisions instead of being swayed by their fickle opinions.

Ten Haag's gone. His actions over the last month, his comments from the common sense to his I'll get trophies regardless of if I leave are all negative. Yet, people here treat the manager role like a charity and wonder why we haven't progressed in a decade. It's moments like this. Luckily, the football side will be run by meticulous, evidence based football people. It's just annoying that the fans will turn on the new ownership in the short term based on this decision

 

[DJ_21]

The season is finally over, and the time has come for INEOS to make a decision on ten Hag. Personally, I don't think they have decided whether they want to keep him or if they're going to fire him.

The main reason for that is that there are no clear replacements. McKenna is inexperienced and unproven at a top club, Tuchel always falls out with some of the players, De Zerbi really isn't that good, so who else is there? Pochettino?

It has to be said that ten Hag has been very unlucky with injuries. It's clear that just having Varane and Martinez fit and available makes such a huge difference, and Shaw as well.

What I will never understand, though, and one of the reasons I wanted him out, is how he consistently lined up with Casemiro and Mainoo behind Bruno. It just doesn't work, never has and never will, yet he kept going with it. He is so incredibly stubborn, and has shown it so many times, like with rewarding Rashford, Casemiro and Antony with more playing time despite being horrendous in most matches. How can you manage a top team, and not try to make changes to something that doesn't work? To me, it is unfathomable, and even though I really wanted for ten Hag to succeed, some of the things he did are just unacceptable for a club like ours.

They’ve made their mind up according to all reports before yesterday’s game. Their won’t be a better bunch of managers available than what their is right now so if they decide to keep him then it best be the correct choice because if they sack him half way through the season we’ll have no one to come in for him. We will be back to square 1.

 

[Leftback99]

The swing in votes is incredible, never seen a poll change here this quick. It was like 75% in favour of his sacking a couple of days ago.

A trophy each season after more than 5 years without one is a decent achievement. Shame that his team played a relegated candidate for most of the season.

No surprise really. Most can't remember past the last game.

 

[NLunited]

We got Reguilon as an emergency loan for him, and he never played him, choosing instead to play Amrabat there, and eventually AwB. He could have also shuffled it round ever now and then to play Dalot at LB but he didn't.

There was also an opportunity to play some youth/reserves in defence, because eventually
there wasn't really anything to lose, but he didn't.

He could have also stopped playing the suicidal midfield "formation" whilst we had our defensive injury crisis. But he didn't.

Yes, injuries have been a problem this season but there were things he could have done to mitigate that, he could have been more pragmatic. But he wasn't. So here we are.

I believe Reguilon was injured too at first, and Ten Hag clearly did not trust him.

Yes he could have been more pragmatic. That would have been a repeat of first season, not taking the next steps towards how he wants to play, again.

 

[hobbers]

If they had 1 player fit they’d of made top 4? We’ve had a full defence out most of season. If we had Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, all fit we might not have finished 10th and wouldn’t be conceding lots of goals/chances.

Chelsea had as many injuries as we did.

And like I said. They scored 20 goals more and underperformed xG. So at least Poch can get an underperforming, injury riddled team to play exciting, goal scoring football. Ten Hag cant.

 

[TheNewEra]

I don't follow?

The noise the last few days about him being sacked has been incredible. Every post match interview specifically focused on the topic. Why not release a brief statement saying that he will be in charge next season? I assume it's because he won't be.

Theres been question marks since December by the press, its a circus nobody will come out and dismiss rumours constantly.

Here's how you know if reports are true, he will get sacked. United don't need to comment on speculation.

 

[Superunknown]

He got it right yesterday and it was a really enjoyable performance to watch, especially that first half. We played well. The issue I have, and as others have already stated, this is the exception rather than the norm. We haven't had too many performances like that this season. The performances (especially in the league) have been consistently poor. I haven't seen enough in the league to convince me that he is going to be able to take us to where we need to be. As incredible as yesterday was, I will understand completely if the club decide to move him on. He's had it very hard with injuries and players being terribly inconsistent with form/underperforming. But, he has to take responsibility as the manager.

My main issues are:

1. If we keep ETH, how are we going to improve on this season?
2. If we get rid of ETH, who replaces him?
3. Similar to question 1, how are we going to support the new manager and how are we going to improve on this season?

We essentially need to go through a rebuild again. There are various players who need shifting on, and there are lots of new players who need bringing in. Far too many for 1 window. This is the start of another long-term project. Opinions are split on the goalkeeping position, centre backs need signing and we need to identify a new first choice partnership, we need to identify who Mainoo's partner is in midfield and also provide cover for that position, wide players need bringing in, attacking players need bringing in, full back positions need looking at (although Dalot has been class this season, so maybe just the left back slot, assuming he's at right back?) We could be talking 10+ players again, in terms of first 11 plus cover.

 

[sixdwarf]

Before we won the FA Cup, I was deffo in the Ten Hag out camp. But that has changed. Winning things is everything. What would you rather? Second and Champions League or winning the FA Cup and the Europa? I'd take the latter every time.

The FA Cup win celebrating with my boys will stay with me for the rest of my life. Coming second doesn't. So I would say we have had a more successful season than Arsenal and Liverpool.

He does have a point about the injuries but his signings have been bad. Mount, Onana and Antony have been expensive mistakes. Nevertheless. you can't fire a manager who has won major trophies on successive seasons. So he deserves the chance of another season under the new structure. Having said that, will he want to stay??!

 

[Robbie Boy]

Theres been question marks since December by the press, its a circus nobody will come out and dismiss rumours constantly.

Here's how you know if reports are true, he will get sacked. United don't need to comment on speculation.

Not really? It was mostly fans speculating he would get the sack. It's only this week that reputable media outlets have definitively said he's getting the sack.

Re the second paragraph: that's my point...

 

[Wumminator]

Chelsea had as many injuries as we did.

And like I said. They scored 20 goals more and underperformed xG. So at least Poch can get an underperforming, injury riddled team to play exciting, goal scoring football. Ten Hag cant.

Chelsea did not have as many injuries as we did.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Which one of you were wearing this shirt?

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[Judas]

Chelsea did not have as many injuries as we did.

I believe they had two less than us. Think we had 45 they had 43, something like that.

 

[doubleohseven]

They really aren't.

The last few matches when he's abandoned his chaos ball shows that.

It doesn't.

Though we have had some significant returns from injury in the past few games, including those who provide more depth to the bench.

Furthermore, and perhaps crucially, his abandoning unsuccessful tactical patterns for more pragmatic designs actually shows tactical flexibility many are accusing him of lacking.

The players didn't seem to mind it, yesterday.

1. the worst league run in 30 years
2. the worst CL run of any EPL club ever, in an easy group no less
3. the bizarre and stubborn tactical choices
4. a transfer record littered with poor personal choices
5. under-utilisation of the squad and favouritism
6. the manager claiming zero accountability for the failures in any of his interviews

1. Injuries. They matter.

2. Agreed on this one. However, considering we did very well in Europe last season (until certain squad members whom EtH has subsequently either removed or attempted to displayed a massive brainfart) I'd grant another go in Europe.

3. Some good, some bad.

4. Some hit, some miss.

5. 'Under-utilisation' can be explained with injuries, but EtH has advanced the likes of Garna and Mainoo. He's also had to deal with crap like Ronaldo, Greenwood and Sancho.

6. It's never Klopp or Pep's fault when they lose, nor was it ever Fergie's. Think of it the same way politicians seldom admit failure. To do so via media points to weakness and never does it stop speculation. I'm not surprised he refuses to self-flagellate in media. At all.

We won the Fa Cup with van Gaal on 21st May and then on 23rd it was announced he got sacked.

It was officially announced on the Monday, but even LvG knew the axe was coming.

 

[stevoc]

Chelsea did not have as many injuries as we did.

They possibly had more.

 

[hobbers]

Chelsea did not have as many injuries as we did.

But back in the real world, they had virtually the same number of injuries and their injuries were just as impactful as ours.

Reece-James and Nkunku both out for virtually the whole season. And Fofana.

20 more goals. 30 more xG. Poch > ETH

 

[Roario]

In the interview with ITV yesterday, he said that the problem with the many injuries was not just that the best players were unavailable, but also that there was no competition for places. This meant that however poorly a player performed, he could not be replaced out of necessity. To me, it sounded like some of these players were not taking instructions well, but he had no choice but to play them anyway.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Which one of you were wearing this shirt?

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Takes a special kind of wanker to turn up to a Cup Final wearing that.

 

[stevoc]

It doesn't.

Though we have had some significant returns from injury in the past few games, including those who provide more depth to the bench.

Furthermore, and perhaps crucially, his abandoning unsuccessful tactical patterns for more pragmatic designs actually shows tactical flexibility many are accusing him of lacking.

The players didn't seem to mind it, yesterday.

It does.

Pity he didn't get more flexible before last week. His setup hasn't been working for 9 months.

 

[Alemar]

ETH was very stubborn with Antony and benched him several months later than he should have. He was and still is stubborn with McTominay.

That said, he indeed showed yesterday that with most of the players available, he could get a very decent performance (and a result).

 

[tomaldinho1]

Giving him 1/4 of the season is pointless. A new manager would have a better change if he had preseason with them.
so, Either keep him or don’t.

I don’t see the issue with keeping him on now. The alternatives really don’t seem that great but that doesn’t mean he suddenly is immune from results, Ineos will pick their targets regardless of the coach so he won’t affect this summers plans. Crack on and if we have the same issues then bring in one of the many available coaches that are out there.

 

[MadMike]

1. Injuries. They matter.

2. Agreed on this one. However, considering we did very well in Europe last season (until certain squad members whom EtH has subsequently either removed or attempted to displayed a massive brainfart) I'd grant another go in Europe.

3. Some good, some bad.

4. Some hit, some miss.

5. 'Under-utilisation' can be explained with injuries, but EtH has advanced the likes of Garna and Mainoo. He's also had to deal with crap like Ronaldo, Greenwood and Sancho.

6. It's never Klopp or Pep's fault when they lose, nor was it ever Fergie's. Think of it the same way politicians seldom admit failure. To do so via media points to weakness and never does it stop speculation. I'm not surprised he refuses to self-flagellate in media. At all.

You do understand that when you say "some hit, some miss" and "some good, some bad" all you're doing is showcasing his ineffectiveness in the role, yes?

Anyone would have hits and misses. The reason why managers get hired and paid big bucks is to have more hits than misses, not the other way round. Otherwise might as well delegate the decisions to a magic 8 ball, it will also have a 50% success rate on average. Which might actually be higher than ETH's this past year.

Also, on the bolded, the certain squad member with the highest amount of brain-farts in the UCL by was far and away Onana. An ETH signing and an ex-player of his. He was neither removed nor attempted to be removed by anyone. Poor attempt at deflection for finishing bottom of a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray

 

[Sunny Jim]

Would be insane to keep him. A case of hearts trumping heads, in my opinion, but it wouldn’t be the first time at this club

Would be insane to sack him. FA Cup is great and that but he should not get the blame for the injuries. We won last 3 games against Newcastle, Brighton and City. Guess why? We had some players back.