Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Maybe the link in the tweet is wrong but this isnt a Reuters report, it is AFP and it doesn't mention, a mock settlement being built or that many Hamas leaders were unaware. Still an interesting article though about Israel believing economic incentives had moderated Hamas's ideologocal view against Isreal.

Yeah not sure what happened to the original link to the Reuters piece. The planning an OPSEC below.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

Israel has long prided itself on its ability to infiltrate and monitor Islamist groups. As a consequence, the source close to Hamas said, a crucial part of the plan was to avoid leaks.

Many Hamas leaders were unaware of the plans and, while training, the 1,000 fighters deployed in the assault had no inkling of the exact purpose of the exercises, the source added.

When the day came, the operation was divided into four parts, the Hamas source said, describing the various elements.

The first move was a barrage of 3,000 rockets fired from Gaza that coincided with incursions by fighters who flew hang gliders, or motorised paragliders, over the border, the source said. Israel has previously said 2,500 rockets were fired at first.

Once the fighters on hang-gliders were on the ground, they secured the terrain so an elite commando unit could storm the fortified electronic and cement wall built by Israel to prevent infiltration.

The fighters used explosives to breach the barriers and then sped across on motorbikes. Bulldozers widened the gaps and more fighters entered in four-wheel drives, scenes that witnesses described.
 
The Israelis and Egyptians should strike a deal to allow women, children, and the elderly out on the Egyptian side before the ground invasion.
Why not allow them on the Israeli side and escort them to the Westbank?

Or would that defy the ethnic cleansing purpose?
 
Times of Israel also reporting on Iran's involvement.

Israel has indications that Iran pushed Hamas into carrying out its massive infiltration and deadly assault, a senior Israeli government source tells reporters.

Iran is also pushing Hezbollah to be ready for conflict with Israel, the senior source says.
 
It would be funny if the topic wasn’t this serious.

I'm sure it's just one of many examples in this thread where people post incomplete and/or unverified tweets and add a bit of their own imagination in order to push their narrative of choice.
 
Why not allow them on the Israeli side and escort them to the Westbank?

Or would that defy the ethnic cleansing purpose?

There's no land bridge for that, and the Israelis are obviously not going to allow it given what just happened. Allowing them into Egypt is however realistic and should be considered.
 
I'm sure it's just one of many examples in this thread where people post incomplete and/or unverified tweets and add a bit of their own imagination in order to push their narrative of choice.
Which can happen to the best, honestly. But if one is so hellbent on being right that they are actually trying to explain someone how their language works, it’s a lost cause.
 


Yaaaaaaaay, going in without any clear plan. Hurrah.

my bet is that once IDF is deep enough in the Gaza mud, Hezbollah enters the war and makes Israel hurt much more.
Then we'll see what the Americans intend to do. I'd be very surprised if Biden actually allows for direct involvement.

If it was Trump, the loon would have wanted to nuke Gaza, Lebanon and Iran yesterday morning.
Biden will be much more subtle. question is, how subtle exactly.

Israel is going down if it has to handle 2 fronts simultaneously.
 
Don't want to sound like Trump but I could sort this out in about 1 day. Take that 40 billion that billionaires spend on their hobbies like Twitter. Spend 2 bill a year in Gaza on schools, job creation, sanitation, water etc. There will still be a generation of hatred and understandably so. But after 20 years of not being suppressed and with education and opportunities for a good life then I would bet there will be less of this needless destruction of life.
Maybe I'm being ridiculous but this view that there is no other option except ethnic cleansing bothers me. Someone needs to think out of the box. It's worth a go.
 
Yaaaaaaaay, going in without any clear plan. Hurrah.

my bet is that once IDF is deep enough in the Gaza mud, Hezbollah enters the war and makes Israel hurt much more.
Then we'll see what the Americans intend to do. I'd be very surprised if Biden actually allows for direct involvement.

If it was Trump, the loon would have wanted to nuke Gaza, Lebanon and Iran yesterday morning.
Biden will be much more subtle. question is, how subtle exactly.

Israel is going down if it has to handle 2 fronts simultaneously.

Could Biden even dream of winning the election if he stood by while Israel was attacked by its neighbours?
 
Yaaaaaaaay, going in without any clear plan. Hurrah.

my bet is that once IDF is deep enough in the Gaza mud, Hezbollah enters the war and makes Israel hurt much more.
Then we'll see what the Americans intend to do. I'd be very surprised if Biden actually allows for direct involvement.

If it was Trump, the loon would have wanted to nuke Gaza, Lebanon and Iran yesterday morning.
Biden will be much more subtle. question is, how subtle exactly.

Israel is going down if it has to handle 2 fronts simultaneously.

Hisbollah has absoltely zero chance to infiltrate Israel, because they secured the northern border at the same time they gather armor and forces at Gaza's. You think terrorists on motorcycles and Toyota trucks can penetrate the border against a modern army that is even superior to many western states? Their only chance is the surprise factor and Hamas has used it already. Hizbollah can only fire rockets, missiles and drones from a distance and get pounded by jets and helicopters in return. That is all.
 
Don't want to sound like Trump but I could sort this out in about 1 day. Take that 40 billion that billionaires spend on their hobbies like Twitter. Spend 2 bill a year in Gaza on schools, job creation, sanitation, water etc. There will still be a generation of hatred and understandably so. But after 20 years of not being suppressed and with education and opportunities for a good life then I would bet there will be less of this needless destruction of life.
Maybe I'm being ridiculous but this view that there is no other option except ethnic cleansing bothers me. Someone needs to think out of the box. It's worth a go.

Yes, keep them in an open air prison, but let's make the prison nicer. That should work.
 
Could Biden even dream of winning the election if he stood by while Israel was attacked by its neighbours?
Exactly. He will get rinsed if he doesn't put a strong support for Israel, regardless of how Netanyahu has been behaving.
 
Yaaaaaaaay, going in without any clear plan. Hurrah.

my bet is that once IDF is deep enough in the Gaza mud, Hezbollah enters the war and makes Israel hurt much more.
Then we'll see what the Americans intend to do. I'd be very surprised if Biden actually allows for direct involvement.

If it was Trump, the loon would have wanted to nuke Gaza, Lebanon and Iran yesterday morning.
Biden will be much more subtle. question is, how subtle exactly.

Israel is going down if it has to handle 2 fronts simultaneously.
Israel is 10 times stronger than all of its neighbours put together…

HA knows this very well and will not engage unless really forced to by the Iranian regime. Which doesn’t seem reasonable.
 
Should Jewish people be allowed to live free of harm? Of course.
Is the right of a Jew greater than that of a Palestinian? Of course not
.

Have Jews historically been targeted and killed by their host nations, again and again and again? Yes.

If a Jewish state needed to be created due to genocide on European soil, why should it come at the expense of people unconnected to WW2?

However the history of it came about, do think Israel has the right to exist now? Because it doesn't sound like it.
 
Don't want to sound like Trump but I could sort this out in about 1 day. Take that 40 billion that billionaires spend on their hobbies like Twitter. Spend 2 bill a year in Gaza on schools, job creation, sanitation, water etc. There will still be a generation of hatred and understandably so. But after 20 years of not being suppressed and with education and opportunities for a good life then I would bet there will be less of this needless destruction of life.
Maybe I'm being ridiculous but this view that there is no other option except ethnic cleansing bothers me. Someone needs to think out of the box. It's worth a go.

Yes, it's worth a go when both sides calmed down and that will take a long time, years. After recent events, you have a higher chance of convincing Putin and Zelensky getting married.
 
Hisbollah has absoltely zero chance to infiltrate Israel, because they secured the northern border at the same time they gather armor and forces at Gaza's. You think terrorists on motorcycles and Toyota trucks can penetrate the border against a modern army that is even superior to many western states? Their only chance is the surprise factor and Hamas has used it already. Hizbollah can only fire rockets, missiles and drones from a distance and get pounded by jets and helicopters in return. That is all.

They could cause a lot of problems in the north through mass rocket attacks (they apparently have thousands of them). They would obviously get pulverized by Israeli jets in response, so probably not the best idea.
 
Could Biden even dream of winning the election if he stood by while Israel was attacked by its neighbours?

Don't think so.

I don't think Biden is losing too many votes, especially in swing states. Americans are war weary.

Edit: he may lose more in Alabama but he was never winning Alabama
 
It happened 3 times right: 1948, 1967 and 1973. The first war was when Israel was a baby state, the second time they got humiliated in 6 days and the third time they caused some pain to Israel but still convincingly lost.
The intifadas are more appropriate comparisons, not the Arab-State-to-State wars. Last intifada ended with Gaza as it is and Hezbollah inflicting a defeat on Israel in the north. Hopefully there is no intifada.
 
What steps do you undertake to verify the authenticity of the sources you post here?
So because 80 years ago, the Nazi regime massacred millions of Jews, you are not allowed to condemn the current war crimes that the regime in Israel is committing.

And you think supporting the Israeli Apartheid fully and blindly is an effective way of supporting Jews?
 
Bollocks.
Gaza is 365km² and watched closer than the Korean border. As if they built a mock Israeli village and carried out training exercises with mossad being none the wiser.

That's why they call it an intelligence failure.
 
If you work in the public sector or for public institutions in Germany and paint the cruel murder of civilians, especially Jewish ones, as something without alternative, you‘re done. Within seconds. And rightly so.

https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2021/...-to-self-defence-against-hamas-rocket-terror/

During the regular government press conference on 12 May 2021, the German cabinet spokesperson made a statement on the rocket attacks on Israel, saying:
“The Federal Government strongly condemns these ongoing rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip on Israeli cities. There is no justification for this violence. Israel has the right to defend itself against these attacks.”
Asked for an assessment of the Israeli air strikes on Gaza, the cabinet spokesperson replied:
“You probably heard me just now: Israel has the right to defend itself against these ongoing rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip.”

The spokesperson for the Federal Foreign Office also indicated that air strikes by Israel on civilian objects may be justified under international humanitarian law, stating that “it is a long- known tactic of Hamas to use civilian facilities and residential buildings for their weapons and quarters.”

For context, these strikes killed 130 civilians: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/response-escalation-opt-situation-report-no-10-september-2021
 
They could cause a lot of problems in the north through mass rocket attacks (they apparently have thousands of them). They would obviously get pulverized by Israeli jets in response, so probably not the best idea.
Problems sure, but nothing in the direction of an existential threat. Many of them would be shot down by Iron Dome anyways and if they use their entire stock, they have nothing left to threaten with. Hizbollah will only move if Israel shows weakness and that will not happen. And a weakened Hizbollah could get problems inside Lebanon.
 
I don't think Biden is losing too many votes, especially in swing states. Americans are war weary.

Edit: he may lose more in Alabama but he was never winning Alabama
He can't lose too many Indie votes, showing indifference might harm him in swing state suburbs.
 
So because 80 years ago, the Nazi regime massacred millions of Jews, you are not allowed to condemn the current war crimes that the regime in Israel is committing.

And you think supporting the Israeli Apartheid fully and blindly is an effective way of supporting Jews?
So I take that as „none“.
 
Bollocks.
Gaza is 365km² and watched closer than the Korean border. As if they built a mock Israeli village and carried out training exercises with mossad being none the wiser.
Do the Mossad work independently from the government? The politicians have been focused on Westbank and supporting/managing the pogroms of their beloved radical settlers there… They’ve also invaded Jenin…

It makes sense that they didn’t expect anything big from Gaza and have been dedicating most of the intelligence capacities to speed up the job in the West Bank…
 
“it is a long- known tactic of Hamas to use civilian facilities and residential buildings for their weapons and quarters.”
This argument is a pet peeve of mine. When gun and rocket launcher toting men (military or non-state ones) knock on my door and say I want to shoot rockets from your backyard, I will not say "Over my dead body". It is not even a choice.