Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

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So Maguire will be starting considering he’s captain and we have Varane and Lindelof…..spending 50 odd million on yet another defender seems mad.


80m Maguire, 50m Varane, 38m Lindelof, 35m Bailly, 55m Martinez…

At what point do we stop buying centre backs?
 
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I agree we are changing setup and also that the will form a relationship with the scouts over time. As I wrote I think this is the way to go as there is no point in signing ETH if he doesn't get the players he wants to enable his football. Hopefully he is good enough coach to also train and coach some of the players in to it. However letting him pick all new signings on his own is rather risky, and I feel that every failure becomes more and more costly for the club.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when utterly incompetent people run a football club. That is arrested levels up from a mere manager, but still takes time to implement. In the time being we have to do something, and of those two paths, there's scouts or manager. In this instance it's not even a momentary pause to pick the more prudent path relative to our predicament.

I will say that if what we're setting up is up to standard, this will be the last window where a manager gets to veto in this manner anyway, so it's a positive for the future. Just not now.
 
With Maguire captain this makes zero sense now.

We might be thinking of going with three at the back, or playing Martinez in a deeper MF role, he is a versatile player that understands how Ten Hag wants to utilize him.
Just so long as he isn't coming in as a squad player... :rolleyes:
 
I don't know if people are being wilfully obtuse when they say Maguire being named captain changes nothing...

A high, aggressive backline with Martinez and Maguire at CB and no recovery pace or acceleration over the top changes nothing?

Varane is a supposed default because of his athleticism and his willingness to be the foil to an aggressive partner. With no Varane, you would have two players beside each other with a natural desire to go and hunt for the ball, and again no pace to recover behind themselves.

You don't play two players together who aren't complementary - can anyone state how Martinez and Maguire complement one another? They are paired with an athletic partner for a reason be that Timber or Varane.

How does Maguire being made captain not make the world of difference, seriously?
 
It's not as clear cut as that. He said that Martinez didn't fit into Ajax's 'different interpretation' of midfield in 2021


Link

But that he was a good midfielder in 2020

Link

Basically, it's going to come down to whether we need him to have 'walking ability' alongside De Jong. Whatever the hell that means. If it's 'wandering ability', we already know De Jong is a master at that in EtH's own estimation. So a Marinez+De Jong axis could potentially be the exact 'interpretation' the manager is after.

@Dante's post needs to be in here.
 
So Maguire will be starting considering he’s captain and we have Varane and Lindelof…..spending 50 odd million on yet another defender seems mad.


80m Maguire, 50m Varane, 38m Lindelof, 35m Bailly, 55m Martinez…

At what point do we stop buying centre backs?
At the point when we have at least 2 we can rely on?
 
I don't know if people are being wilfully obtuse when they say Maguire being named captain changes nothing...

A high, aggressive backline with Martinez and Maguire at CB and no recovery pace or acceleration over the top changes nothing?

Varane is a supposed default because of his athleticism and his willingness to be the foil to an aggressive partner. With no Varane, you would have two players beside each other with a natural desire to go and hunt for the ball, and again no pace to recover behind themselves.

You don't play two players together who aren't complementary - can anyone state how Martinez and Maguire complement one another? They are paired with an athletic partner for a reason be that Timber or Varane.

How does Maguire being made captain not make the world of difference, seriously?
Plenty of high lines have less quick defenders. Your high line depends on the pressing, not on the defenders just running back.
 
It's still very risky without any recovery pace. Wasn't that AVBs downfall at Chelsea, the high line with a struggling Terry?
Again the only conclusion is that AVB team structure wasn't good enough to have a high line in the premiership. Pep and klopps is. Ralfs isn't, hence why every CB we had last season including varane looked very bad at different times
 
VdS has stopped giving us mates rates hasn't he?

Ajax are fleecing us.
Not sure what VDS has to do with player transfers considering he’s the CEO & not their sporting director. He actually deals with the commercial side of Ajax and apparently is really good at it. So more Woodward than Murtough.
 
Plenty of high lines have less quick defenders. Your high line depends on the pressing, not on the defenders just running back.
Which ones as slow as the proposed one, particularly with two cb's who pressure for the ball and none who sweep behind the proactive one?

It's two flaws, not one, both absolutely disastrous for a high line.
 
So Maguire will be starting considering he’s captain and we have Varane and Lindelof…..spending 50 odd million on yet another defender seems mad.


80m Maguire, 50m Varane, 38m Lindelof, 35m Bailly, 55m Martinez…

At what point do we stop buying centre backs?
I'm not convinced he's for CB anyway. Think he will be a CDM position and CB cover if needs be.
 
Which ones as slow as the proposed one, particularly with two cb's who pressure for the ball and none who sweep behind the proactive one?

It's two flaws, not one, both absolutely disastrous for a high line.
Hummel's was slower and is one of the most celebrated high line defenders of last 20 years.

I'm not saying Maguire and Martinez will start every game. Go and look at all the lineups from every team on earth from the last 20 years. Starting 11 is a myth. But I'm sure they can play together when the squad situation and form dictates
 
Plenty of high lines have less quick defenders. Your high line depends on the pressing, not on the defenders just running back.

Indeed.

I think I'm right in saying the Ajax side ETH got to the CL semi finals had a De Ligt/Blind CB partnership? Lightning quick they weren't.
 
More likely the other way around. He's a CB. He's not a midfielder.
Pretty sure he's capable of playing both. Nobody knows what ETH is planning until we see him on the pitch.
 
Hummel's was slower and is one of the most celebrated high line defenders of last 20 years.

I'm not saying Maguire and Martinez will start every game. Go and look at all the lineups from every team on earth from the last 20 years. Starting 11 is a myth. But I'm sure they can play together when the squad situation and form dictates
You named one player, not two. I asked which partnerships.

There's also the other part of the post you've omitted which is a huge deal in high line - one sits, one hunts, not both. Maguire has the natural instinct to go after the ball; Martinez is highly regarded for it, asking either to sit is going against their natural game.

A slower player is covered by a faster one. It's pretty much an unwritten rule.

All this points towards either a 3-man backline or Martinez in midfield, to me.

Maguire next to a foil with a shield in front who can slip into defence, but no way the two of them together unless ten Hag really does believe that we can get away with a powder keg of no pace at the back in a division with probably the fastest collection of forwards on the planet. People talking about height will need to redirect to pace if that's the plan because every team we face will be testing us around the inside channels and over the top with Martinez next to Maguire, as they should.
 
How? Maguire’s distribution is better when he’s on the right.

Yes, thought that too. Maguire might still be not good enough, but that won’t be because he’s moved to the right. There’s a chance ETH doesn’t think the captaincy is that important and Maguire will be up against Varane for playing time.
 
With Maguire captain this makes zero sense now.

Unless he's being brought in to play in midfield? Ten Hag did say today that we are, "searching for players in the midfield, where we have a need, and also the offence."

No mention of the defence, despite the fact we know the club are actively trying to sign L. Martinez.
 
So Maguire will be starting considering he’s captain and we have Varane and Lindelof…..spending 50 odd million on yet another defender seems mad.


80m Maguire, 50m Varane, 38m Lindelof, 35m Bailly, 55m Martinez…

At what point do we stop buying centre backs?
At the point we have 4 quality ones.
 
You named one player, not two. I asked which partnerships.

There's also the other part of the post you've omitted which is a huge deal in high line - one sits, one hunts, not both. Maguire has the natural instinct to go after the ball; Martinez is highly regarded for it, asking either to sit is going against their natural game.

A slower player is covered by a faster one. It's pretty much an unwritten rule.

All this points towards either a 3-man backline or Martinez in midfield, to me.

Maguire next to a foil with a shield in front who can slip into defence, but no way the two of them together unless ten Hag really does believe that we can get away with a powder keg of no pace at the back in a division with probably the fastest collection of forwards on the planet. People talking about height will need to redirect to pace if that's the plan because every team we face will be testing us around the inside channels and over the top with Martinez next to Maguire, as they should.
Maguire and lindelof have no pace and were excellent a couple of seasons ago. Maguire top three defenders in the league in defence and attack. I'm sure the geniuses said it was impossible. And we didn't even have a good coach then, we probably had Michael Carrick coaching the defensive shape and protected by mcfred. Football isn't played on paper. Maguire and Martinez could work as part of a squad
 
Maguire and lindelof have no pace and were excellent a couple of seasons ago. Maguire top three defenders in the league in defence and attack. I'm sure the geniuses said it was impossible. And we didn't even have a good coach then, we probably had Michael Carrick coaching the defensive shape and protected by mcfred. Football isn't played on paper. Maguire and Martinez could work as part of a squad
I must have missed that season, Lindelof and excellent are like oil and water, replace with mediocre and it is still too generous
 
Who was the journalist that said ETH wants to drop Varane for Martinez and drop Sancho for Eriksen. They might be on to something afterall...:eek::wenger:
Not many managers take the same strategy and 11 game after game. Journalists get peoples imaginations going with this stuff but in reality lots of players can play beyond 11
 
We should move on. He is not worth 60m, fecking midget. Arsenal can have him for that price. 45m is already a good offer, but if they dont want to sell, they dont have to.
 
Maguire and lindelof have no pace and were excellent a couple of seasons ago. Maguire top three defenders in the league in defence and attack. I'm sure the geniuses said it was impossible. And we didn't even have a good coach then, we probably had Michael Carrick coaching the defensive shape and protected by mcfred. Football isn't played on paper. Maguire and Martinez could work as part of a squad
They didn't play in anything like as high a line. We played counter-attacking football at Maguire's best; soaking up pressure deep and hitting on the break. This is optimal for slower defenders.

ten Hag has his men way up the pitch playing aggressive, football. One break of those lines and recovery pace is absolutely vital. So either you don't make those mistakes, or athleticism bails out the backline. Two proactive defenders aren't even positioning themselves to run backwards let alone being too slow to get at a forward if they were already in the optimal position to do so initially.

I doubt the manager will make concessions with what he wants in a backline because it sets the tone for the entire team. I don't know how we'll set up exactly, but I'd bet the backline will be high, proactive and look very inviting to play in behind.
 
Unfortunately, this is what happens when utterly incompetent people run a football club. That is arrested levels up from a mere manager, but still takes time to implement. In the time being we have to do something, and of those two paths, there's scouts or manager. In this instance it's not even a momentary pause to pick the more prudent path relative to our predicament.

I will say that if what we're setting up is up to standard, this will be the last window where a manager gets to veto in this manner anyway, so it's a positive for the future. Just not now.
At the same time ETH did not just come to all these conclusions himself, he probably got help from scouts when he was at Ajax.
 
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