It all depends on whether they truly back him in the long run. If they do, then they'll give him money to spend. I don't think we'll do anything in January though, and it could be extremely difficult trying to persuade the right calibre of player to join us if we're not in the Champions League. Bad times.
It's tough going - What side of the fence are you on
- Thread starter Wumminator
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are joined by special guest Anders (@Lyng) to celebrate the news that ETH is staying put! They also talk about the Euros so far, with special attention on England, Scotland and Denmark. They then finish with some transfer talk and the potential comings and outgoings at Old Trafford.
Sacking Moyes sets a terrible precedent, and will only make us look stupid when we're left with a choice of Villas-Boas and Roberto Martinez.
We've been struggling by with a very average side for a long time, and I think Sir Alex papered over a lot of the cracks. If the Glazers are prepared to put some money behind him next summer, and let him revamp the squad, then let's judge him at the end of next season. If they aren't prepared to do that, then we've got little hope whoever the manager is.
We've been struggling by with a very average side for a long time, and I think Sir Alex papered over a lot of the cracks. If the Glazers are prepared to put some money behind him next summer, and let him revamp the squad, then let's judge him at the end of next season. If they aren't prepared to do that, then we've got little hope whoever the manager is.
Fair enough to hold onto belief in him, it is early after all. But I also think those of us who don't have the faith in him aren't due to a lack of patience. I'd like the romance of this all coming good, but there are no clear indications that he'll prove a success, let alone anything major.
Yes to the bold bit.
This season will make us stronger. We will probably lose some money, "fans" and possibly some players, but thats fine, because we are United. Some of us has never experienced us being poor for a whole season, so I guess in a way, its a good experience. I will stand by the manager and hope for the best this season without to much expectation.
How does this season make us stronger?
Oh how I wish we've been relegated by now.
Beg Sir Alex to come back for half a season.
How exactly does losing fans, money & players make us stronger?
Saw that, he looked like he was nearly in tears. I wish some others would show they care like him.
Not wasted, no. I'm going to sit and blissfully watch our climb up the table.......
Happily, while United have a reputation of a club that has patience towards managers, the last time we really needed to show it was a long time ago. The whole football industry was more patient back then. Obviously I'm not saying we should be like everyone else, but we shouldn't stick to something just because it was the way we worked 20-30-40 years ago. We were also supposed to be in a far healthier state than we were when we signed previous managers since the second Busby retirement. It requires a lot more consideration than just sticking to old values.
When you are in the shit, you will need to fight damn hard to get up, and in this process you will be stronger than you were before. But in this process you will suffer, its just the way it is. Stand by our manager and players, and we will be fine eventually.
How does losing money, players (most likely going to be our best players) and fans make us stronger?
I appreciate the "fairy tale" aspect of it but in reality failure very rarely brings rewards, I for one have experianced the bad days and I don't want to go back there. I want us to be playing the best teams in Europe.
Moyes needs to be backed or sacked, at the moment the club has no direction, and that I'm afraid is down to Moyes. I'll back him as I would any United manager, however that doesn't mean I won't critise him when I feel he deserves it.
I want Moyes to do well so for that reason I'm sticking with him, he fecked up in the Summer but I'll give him till this time next year before I start sharpening the pitch fork
I can just about understand giving him the full season, but failure to qualify for the CL should be it.The players don't believe in him. Teams are beating us with ease at Old Trafford. The fans are losing faith. It's a nightmare come true.
Moyes has become a cancer to this football club. He gutted a successful backroom staff lauded and trusted by Sir Alex Ferguson. He brought in his yes-men from Everton in addition to appointing Neville and Giggs as coaches despite having zero experience. His training methods have been criticised by the players. His tactics have been simple to dismantle by the opposition at best, and nonexistent at worse. The players are playing without confidence or belief, they do not trust him. He gives bizarre interviews, one week undermining our squad, another week saying it is of good quality. He smiles and says we played excellently after suffering yet another embarrassing home defeat. It's likely we will play next season without Champions League football, a year after winning the Premier League by 11 points.
This is unacceptable.
Moyes has become a cancer to this football club. He gutted a successful backroom staff lauded and trusted by Sir Alex Ferguson. He brought in his yes-men from Everton in addition to appointing Neville and Giggs as coaches despite having zero experience. His training methods have been criticised by the players. His tactics have been simple to dismantle by the opposition at best, and nonexistent at worse. The players are playing without confidence or belief, they do not trust him. He gives bizarre interviews, one week undermining our squad, another week saying it is of good quality. He smiles and says we played excellently after suffering yet another embarrassing home defeat. It's likely we will play next season without Champions League football, a year after winning the Premier League by 11 points.
This is unacceptable.
Remember that we are a hugh club. One bad season will not change us drastically. I think of course if Moyes cant turn it around next season, we may have to look for another manager. So right now, I am all for backing.
I can just about understand giving him the full season, but failure to qualify for the CL should be it.Mate, 100% agree with you.
Sounds a bit Hollywood that. I get that there's obviously an importance in us standing by the team and manager as long as they're in post, but it's a bit of leap to go from that to saying that this process will make us stronger. If we miss out on top 4, which looks increasingly likely, then it all hinges on how the club reacts to that as to where the future of United goes. Respond with some serious financial backing and competent player management and we should get back in the top 4 swiftly and return as a serious contender. My hope, given the club's strong commercial position, is that this will be the outcome. However, if we don't sign more players and let those who seek Champions League football depart, we're in real danger of losing our top dog status and potentially finding ourselves in the kind of situation Liverpool did where you're marginalised just outside the top set of English clubs.
Big test for Woodward and the Glazers this, as much as it is for the players, fans and Moyes.
I'm in the sticking with Moyes camp. Always knew it was gonna be tough after Fergie's retirement so to not give Moyes the time will be jumping the gun. 3 years from now, if we're still in a similar predicament, then I'd say that's it for him.
That being said though, it is imperative that we get a CL spot.
That being said though, it is imperative that we get a CL spot.
So what if we don't get a CL spot?
This is where I've been since his appointment, but with CL now looking like it may not happen, how does that change your position? If we miss out this season would you give him another season to strengthen the squad and have another go, or cut your losses and go for someone more 'proven'?
By giving him another go could mean giving him 100 million to spend. It's a big gamble given how the seasons going so far.
I've tried my best to give Moyes my vote until its fully tried but sadly he doesnt have a clue.... Or the balls to make some tough calls on the players and tactics.. But for me he has ti go, the sooner the better this is going nowhere fast.. No progression no new tactics Januzaj the only light in a dim cold Scottish winter at Trafford..
Im am fully in this for United but Moyes lost me today..
Im am fully in this for United but Moyes lost me today..
Why should he arbitrarily be given 3 years? Patience is fine and certainly necessary, but it should only be afforded if the manager shows clear signs of a long-term vision for the club. Moyes just looks out of his depth. The players are playing with no belief or fluency and seemingly no organisation or tactical plan.
Well that's the test really. Either way I agree with those saying that whatever decision is made, it needs to be 100%. Either decide it's a long term project, he's the man for the job and give him strong financial backing, or sack him and bring in a less experimental successor who has won things at the top level, even if it's a short term job to get out of this difficult post-Fergie era.
I think the worst case scenario would be hanging on to Moyes but then not giving him the backing he needs to be confident in his place at the club or to rejuvenate the squad through transfers.
He gets 2 seasons for me. The summer transfer window is where he gets a fair chance to make his mark. If at the end of next season we are still playing ugly football then i will be looking for change. However its just far too early to make that decision now, he has walked in to a hospital pass at Utd with a squad in real need of overhauling. Fergie got the last bits of time out of it but the writing has been on the wall for a little while now. Moyes at the least needs a chance to build his team before he gets shunted.
Similar feeling today, as you said not a lot you can do other than support the club.
Good man, Iczy. Terrific post. Some self-indulgent shite being posted tonight. If United are now somewhat of an embarrassment to you or damaging your 'street cred', pack football in now.
100%
It's obvious that the first 11 needs major investment, I'd he doesn't get it we are only going too go one way.
I still believe he can turn this around. We might only finish in the top four this season but if he's given the chance to shape the squad in the summer I think he'll make a much better fist of it thsn the summer just gone. He wasn't my pick as manager but I firmly believe that the fact he might be struggling at the moment doesn't mean he won't grow into the job and become a good United manager. Obviously a couple more signings like Fellaini would make me seriously doubt what he's doing but if he's given the backing he needs then it could be a different story next season (though still think it's likely we'll miss out on the title as here'll probably be a large turnover of olayers and that takes time to bed in).
None of that is to say I don't have serious doubts. My concerns about the style of football haven't been allayed but it's early days yet. If we're still playing this way by the end of next season then I'd be the first to say it's probably been a failed experiment.
None of that is to say I don't have serious doubts. My concerns about the style of football haven't been allayed but it's early days yet. If we're still playing this way by the end of next season then I'd be the first to say it's probably been a failed experiment.
Good post.
Well, I phrased my last sentence wrongly. It had nothing to do with whether we sack him or not. What I meant to say was, with the league and FA Cup gone (I'm not even thinking of the CL to be honest) that spot in next year's CL is now the most important thing for us. I think even those of us who are backing him till now will hold our hands up and say he's failed if he finishes outside the top four. Hell, even he'd say that, I bet. Although I can see us sticking with him even if we don't get CL.
Anyway, heard a few boos at fulltime but to be fair, it wasn't a deafening one. Considering it was our 4th loss in 6 home games, I thought that was a positive sign. Not much we can do now but support the club, as some have said here.
Im with you on this. Nice to hear the Stretford end still giving it the right stuff.
Do you still see us finishing in the top four?
Yeah. Once we get Rooney and RvP back we'll get much better.
We're a long, long way back in the storey table...
Same argument can be made for us and Arsenal. Welbeck has been excellent with Rooney recently as well. Can a RvP returning from injury really surpass what Welbeck has been offering you recently?