Killer theory maybe, but not winner in a fight. A trained martial artist vs a brawler and the martial artist will win every time. Always. Unless they are shit at their martial art.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
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Killer theory maybe, but not winner in a fight. A trained martial artist vs a brawler and the martial artist will win every time. Always. Unless they are shit at their martial art.
I won't even correct Barros, I'm sure there's many on here that know he's totally wrong.
Rooney < Ibra
Rooney < Ibra
David Haye isn't a 'Brawler', it's as ludicrous as the martial arts fanatics that claim that Lee would beat Ali. Haye would murder Li.
Well personally I couldn't call it. Haye doesn't seem to be very well conditioned. But he did prove Barros wrong when he beat that giant Russian fellow
Not really, I'm black belt in taekwondo (may lost the color with the years) and when I joined the paratroopers I found out judo is way better in combat than any other martial art. Now go to a disco and have a fight with a bull built dude were you have no space to move (that happened back in Portugal with a friend of mine, he was black belt as well and he got beat up by a guy inside a disco -- club here in the states).
Do you watch UFC? Martial arts means shit there, some Brazilian jiu-jitsu and a lot of boxing, I don't see Bruce Lee's over there.
brock lesnar vs any martial master
He lost against a Mexican, to be fair he was destroying Velasquez but one wrong move and.....
Kinell this thread is asinine. Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Oguchi Onyewu are neither brawlers nor trained martial artists, (a black belt in taekwondo makes you good at breaking boards. It's bloody useless in any fight you don't have room to kick the other bloke in, which is most of them.) They're a couple of footballers who got in a scrap. The fight was probably some wrestling around, a couple weakly thrown punches, and a lot of multilingual cursing.
In a bar/club fight, it's often about who gets the first advantage. A person's strength, size, mastery of boxing or martial arts or whatever can be quickly rendered irrelevant when a limb is in jeopardy of being broken (forearm lock, finger lock, etc.) or potential lifelong injury is imminent (elbow/knee joint break, eye gouge, etc.). It becomes more of a survival instinct.
Granted someone who is trained in certain techniques can recover from any situation at any given time. For example, you better know what the feck you're doing if your opponent is a trained MMA fighter or Special Forces soldier, although you may not know this until the fight is on... or quickly over. These people are trained in all sorts of situations and need only an inch of space or split second of time to quickly topple the situation.
Dick/ball punch, knee to the groin, ear slap, punch to bicep (which can become a forearm lock instantly), punch/forearm/elbow to chin are some instant destabilizing moves. The chin is a good spot as it will rattle the brain and can be broken with one shot - a double blow.
Slapping an opponent's ear with a cuffed hand (or two) can explode the eardrum and cause the equilibrium to be off instantly. Fight over. I've never had the fortune of using this maneuver but I hear it is quite effective.
Adding alcohol and/or drugs to the mix really makes things interesting. I tend to ignore drunks acting belligerent. It won't be a fair fight when I'm sober. I'm already two steps ahead as my reaction time is current and I'm already planning how to end this quickly or react while the drunk keeps yapping. This is one reason why I rarely get inebriated in public - I want to remain in control of the situations around me.
Granted someone who is trained in certain techniques can recover from any situation at any given time. For example, you better know what the feck you're doing if your opponent is a trained MMA fighter or Special Forces soldier, although you may not know this until the fight is on... or quickly over. These people are trained in all sorts of situations and need only an inch of space or split second of time to quickly topple the situation.
Dick/ball punch, knee to the groin, ear slap, punch to bicep (which can become a forearm lock instantly), punch/forearm/elbow to chin are some instant destabilizing moves. The chin is a good spot as it will rattle the brain and can be broken with one shot - a double blow.
Slapping an opponent's ear with a cuffed hand (or two) can explode the eardrum and cause the equilibrium to be off instantly. Fight over. I've never had the fortune of using this maneuver but I hear it is quite effective.
Adding alcohol and/or drugs to the mix really makes things interesting. I tend to ignore drunks acting belligerent. It won't be a fair fight when I'm sober. I'm already two steps ahead as my reaction time is current and I'm already planning how to end this quickly or react while the drunk keeps yapping. This is one reason why I rarely get inebriated in public - I want to remain in control of the situations around me.
Pretty much. Athletes in team sports aren't trained fighters and often these "brawls" or "fights" are just some pushing and shoving, shirt grabbing, grappling, etc. Sometimes there are punches thrown that rarely land on target and are so wild that they are often amusing to look at.
Destroying him? He pressured him for like 30 seconds and then he was the one that actually got destroyed. And I don't see why you're mentioning his nationality. Pointless. Velasquez has better technique and that helped him win...very impressively might I add
Bruce Lee is quite possibly the worst example to use to illustrate your point.
It is well known he did not follow a particular form, but picked up bits and pieces from all over, bits and pieces that he found useful and effective. Specifically, useful in street situations.
Plus, he was regularly involved in street brawls against rival gangs growing up in Hong Kong.
Yup. Jeet Kun Do is all about street effectiveness. Though I will say most martial 'arts' aren't likely to help you much in an actual brawl if you don't have actual brawling experience. Agressiveness and the willingness to inflict harm will often serve a brawler better in a fight than skill or strength unless the physical difference is so big your ability to inflict harm on the other is rather limited.
Jeet Kun Do is more of a fighting philosophy than anything.
Krav Maga on the other hand..
Krav Maga on the other hand..
Bruce Lee would tear most of them apart in the UFC. He used weights to replicate his fighting movements in order to make every single workout of his effective for fighting.
Was disappointed not to see this thread bumped.
"Zlatan doesn't score in big games."
He was their only threat
"Zlatan doesn't score in big games."
He was their only threat
wasn't it a pen?
Only watched the last 20 mins, he was lucky not to get sent off and ruined a couple of promising counter attacks with lazy passes direct to Inter players and then he couldn't even be assed to win it back.
It was a penalty, and he celebrated it, which I found interesting
And he wasn't their only threat, in fact Milan were comfortably the best team. There were some moments down to ten men where Ibrahimovic should have been in the box to win it, and seemingly couldn't be arsed?
And he wasn't their only threat, in fact Milan were comfortably the best team. There were some moments down to ten men where Ibrahimovic should have been in the box to win it, and seemingly couldn't be arsed?
Second half was admittedly a relatively poor showing, however, he dominated first half IMO.
Definately a contender for MotM, don't know who got it though.
Definately a contender for MotM, don't know who got it though.
No, I'm not English either, which explains why I don't hate him like I seemingly should.
Why would the English hate him?
And be fair Jacob, you live in Sweden, and it's not as if Zlatan is born Swedish, you have more in common with him than much of the country you reside!
And be fair Jacob, you live in Sweden, and it's not as if Zlatan is born Swedish, you have more in common with him than much of the country you reside!
I only saw the second half. He was pretty poor.
Nonsense, why would we hate him or expect anyone to hate him?
Million dollar question that!
I do have a lot in common with him, can't deny that. I also admit his poor showings, and... this is where we part, I ALSO recognize his good displays.
I'm English and I recognize his good displays, the fella is a top player and has won a league for like 50 successive seasons with like 20 different clubs.
However I live in Stockholm and see first hand how over-rated "Zlatan" is by everyone in this country. Everyone who has watched the second half tonight has mentioned that he was piss poor yet you bumped the thread to "big him up" and talk some utter nonsense about him being Milan's only threat. So anyway, that's why I came to the conclusion that you're another Swedish dweller who over-rates this boy.
The guys a very good striker, no argument there
I think he has an attitude problem, I think he goes missing when it matters too often, and I think he's scandalously held up by some as the greatest exponent of his art in the game. Most of my talk about him on here was in relation to that Eto'o comparison thread. Just a no contest for me
Just to make things clear, Milan's only threat in that particular game. Zlatan may very well be over-rated by many Swedes, that is probably down to the lack of top quality players coming from here. The hype is there for a reason, as you mentioned, got to mean something that he plays an integral part of every title winning side.
Fair enough, you're both entitled to your opinions, Eto'o is a world class and there is no question about it. However, the part about Zlatan being a thug and all has got to be put into perspective. With the red-tinted glassed off, I'll stick my neck out and call Zlatan a more preferable character than both Nani and Berbatov, on and off the pitch.
Watching an exclusive interview with Zlatan now, there are some interesting quotes about his transfer saga's.
Quizzed on the opportunity to play in England;
"I like it here at Milan, I've got a 4 year contract and I'm not getting any younger. A contract is just a piece of paper though, mainly because people can change their opinion completely within 24 hours, I've had that at Barca."
When they talked about his transfer options from Inter, he said there was only two offers 'put to the table', that were good enough according to his agent. Clubs that could match his wages in other words, and those were Milan and City. Milan upped their interest when City got into the frame.
The Guardiola issue
A: "The issued lied with Guardiola, he suddenly stopped talking to me for no reason"
Q: "Why?"
A: "I don't know, it had nothing to do with football as everybody was pleased with me at Barca, it was in fact my best first season with a new club ever. When somebody has a problem with me, I'm not the one to ask why, he should've come to me and tell it straight. He didn't dare to look me in the eyes, whenever it happened he quickly looked away."
Q: "So you can't remember any incident that might've triggered this? Why they practically wasted £40M."
A: "No. I was as professional as everybody else, came to training, performed well, never late. I could've kept on playing at Barca with the silence treatment of the manager, but I would at least have to be played."
About his attitude
Q: "People say that you're a bully, a trouble maker, and thus can't stay at a place for no longer than 3 years. How do you respond to that?"
A: "People portray players how they want to, they can say whatever they want. They call me a thug, absolutely, but I'm winning. I can be whatever they want as long as I win."
Q: "Will you do whatever it takes to win?"
A: "Definately, wherever I go I've won."
Quizzed on the opportunity to play in England;
"I like it here at Milan, I've got a 4 year contract and I'm not getting any younger. A contract is just a piece of paper though, mainly because people can change their opinion completely within 24 hours, I've had that at Barca."
When they talked about his transfer options from Inter, he said there was only two offers 'put to the table', that were good enough according to his agent. Clubs that could match his wages in other words, and those were Milan and City. Milan upped their interest when City got into the frame.
The Guardiola issue
A: "The issued lied with Guardiola, he suddenly stopped talking to me for no reason"
Q: "Why?"
A: "I don't know, it had nothing to do with football as everybody was pleased with me at Barca, it was in fact my best first season with a new club ever. When somebody has a problem with me, I'm not the one to ask why, he should've come to me and tell it straight. He didn't dare to look me in the eyes, whenever it happened he quickly looked away."
Q: "So you can't remember any incident that might've triggered this? Why they practically wasted £40M."
A: "No. I was as professional as everybody else, came to training, performed well, never late. I could've kept on playing at Barca with the silence treatment of the manager, but I would at least have to be played."
About his attitude
Q: "People say that you're a bully, a trouble maker, and thus can't stay at a place for no longer than 3 years. How do you respond to that?"
A: "People portray players how they want to, they can say whatever they want. They call me a thug, absolutely, but I'm winning. I can be whatever they want as long as I win."
Q: "Will you do whatever it takes to win?"
A: "Definately, wherever I go I've won."
Ibrahimovic was born in Sweden
That's his only connection to the country, it's like saying Hargreaves is Canadian.
Thought he played with Malmo
Ibrahimovic was born in Sweden
I could have phrased that better, he's Bosnian Croat rather than Swedish, though he was born in Sweden
Ya he was born and raised in Sweden, played in Sweden and with their national team. Ergo he's Swedish. And Hargreaves was born and reared in Canada, so he is Canadian but plays for England. They both have strong connections to their nations
Yes, no shit the bloke that plays for the Swedish national side has connections with Sweden
I think you missed the point a tad, one you'll note the person the comment was intended for agreed with
You can very much be born and raised in Sweden without a 'Swedish' upbringing by the way
Fair enough I took it in a very cut and dry manner
What's a 'Swedish' upbringing?
Cantona of continental clubs. Has won the league in almost every season he has played. Not been successful in the CL or Internationals though.
Will save your life in a street fight.
Sweden is not the greatest side mind you.
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