Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Boss said:
Yet you don't mind slagging Nani off constantly on these boards, last time I checked he's one of us, there's a difference between a United fan and fanboi, such unmerited high praise for Berba is the latter, nobody could possibly take it seriously.

You just get touchy on anything Berba but I don't see the same defence mechanisms from you for other players in our team, especially the Portugese lad.
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Now you're just making shit up. I've been critical of Nani when he played poorly but have nothing but praise for him since he's stepped up his game. Similarly I've been critical of Berbatov when he's played poorly but will always take issue with people that unfairly criticise an acceptable performance (especially the tools who steadfastly refuse to ever give any credit when it's due) If you paid a bit more attention you would have noticed me doing exactly the same for Nani when he was getting slagged off after what I thought was a decent display (I think it might have been CSKA away?)

By the way, a football fan who defends a player who plays for his own team is not a "fanboi". That label is reserved for the many weirdos on here whose hero-worshipping of individual players transcends their allegiance to a football club.
 
Feed Me said:
Mate - you'd struggle to find any absurd levels of praise for Berbatov from myself of Pogue. Trouble is that you lot start with such a low opinion of the player that when we stand on the middle ground, we're perceived as being fanbois who give him more credit than he's due.

The truth is, we have both never shirked from saying that overall Berbatov has underwhelmed - just to no where near the extent that you lot make out.
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Come on, there's no middle ground, wasn't too long ago Pogue was saying Berba was having a fantastic season and yourself, I may be mistaken but was it you who made a thread angry at Sir Alex after we beat Arsenal at home just because we didn't play Berbatov who came on and fluffed his chance? Earlier in the season both of you were very harsh on Wayne Rooney too. Middle ground, no, not at all.
 
Gio said:
We've already discussed this - https://www.redcafe.net/f7/zlatan-ibrahimovic-141462/index38.html#post7944338. Interestingly, and this is a fact the media and others have ignored in their stampede to criticise Ibrahimovic, it was Messi who (relatively) covered less distance than any outfield player, and had he been taken off after the hour would have covered substantially less distance than Valdes.

In any case, both players hadn't trained for some time, were unfit and probably shouldn't have played. Furthermore, Samuel raked his studs down the back of Zlatan's calf in the first minute (see the photos).

Criticising either player for the distance they covered when patently not fit is truly scraping the barrel.
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Shit, in fairness, I hadn't factored in the fact that he only played 60 mins.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Now you're just making shit up. I've been critical of Nani when he played poorly but have nothing but praise for him since he's stepped up his game. Similarly I've been critical of Berbatov when he's played poorly but will always take issue with people that unfairly criticise an acceptable performance (especially the tools who steadfastly refuse to ever give any credit when it's due)

By the way, a football fan who defends a player who plays for his own team is not a "fanboi". That label is reserved for the many weirdos on here whose hero-worshipping of individual players transcends their allegiance to a football club.
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feck me, it was just earlier this season you were saying Nani has less time to show what he's got than Berbatov,despite being 6 years younger! There's agendas aout players whitin our own club! So you're whole defending Berba stance is plain hypocritical
 
Boss said:
Come on, there's no middle ground, wasn't too long ago Pogue was saying Berba was having a fantastic season and yourself, I may be mistaken but was it you who made a thread angry at Sir Alex after we beat Arsenal at home just because we didn't play Berbatov who came on and fluffed his chance? Earlier in the season both of you were very harsh on Wayne Rooney too. Middle ground, no, not at all.
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Rooney - yep. Earlier in the season, he wasn't playing well and I said so. He was scoring goals at a decent rate, but he wasn't playing well. I went to OT for the Sunderland game and he had an absolute rotter - awful performance. Symbolic of his general form at the time. I later watched us play Wolves at OT and he was again, way below par. His form switched after Hull away.

You can't seem to discriminate between constructive criticism and unwarranted abuse. I'll happily admit I criticised Rooney's pre Christmas form - he wouldn't have won any awards playing like that all season.

So what's wrong with that?

Edit: re me saying Berbatov was having a "fantastic" season - I don't think I ever used that word. I think I've gone as far as saying he's been good and has made a good contribution - with 12 league goals, I'd say that is a fair statement.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Forgive me for not believing you.

What with you making shit up in the previous post too.

That and me being familiar with my own opinions, obviously...
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It's pretty clear for anybody to see, but I doubt any poster would come out and say, "yeah, Pogue you do seem very harsh on Nani ad incredibly bias to Berbatov" despite it being obvious. Meh
 
Commadus said:
Bias is a term used to describe a tendency or preference towards a particular perspective, ideology, or result, when the tendency interferes with the ability to be impartial, unprejudiced, or objective.[1]. In other words, bias is generally seen as a 'one-sided' perspective. The term biased refers to a person or group who is judged to exhibit bias. It is used to describe an attitude, judgment, or behavior that is influenced by a prejudice.

Also you quickly edited your post :cool:
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I know what the word bias means, thanks. I also know how to use it.

Oh and if you're gonna try and be a smart-arse by cutting and pasting definitions off the web it's probably best to delete the citation, to make it a little less obvious what you've done.
 
Boss said:
because they have no problem with crucifying some players but putting others on a pedestal, it's that whole fan boi stuff, it irks me
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Pogue's clearly not a fecking fanboi - God I hate that term.

On the Berbatov debate, there are a select few posters who are capable of seeing both sides - that is being objective. Say when he does well and say when he does poorly. On the other side, there are posters who see only bad, because they're so blinded by their preconceptions. The former group are absurdly called "fanbois" because they stick out like a sore thumb on here - they actually give the fella credit when he does well. That's not being a fanboi, that's being balanced and fair.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I do the same on Zlatan. But you openly accuse me of doing other wise. I say take your medicine. :p
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Difference is, I don't resort to calling people fanbois. I'll respect your view on Ibrahimovic (even if I disagree) because despite the fact that you're a nutter, I do appreciate that you watch a hell of a lot of football. I also appreciate that the good stuff he has done, i.e. in Serie A, will have gone unnoticed by me. You won't hear me calling you an Ibra fanboi just because I disagree with you.

It does my fecking head in though when people call me a fanboi because I'm defending a player.
 
Feed Me said:
To all intents and purposes his argument seems to be that:

Ibrahimovic has done the business at the very top level. But just in games that the vast majority of us have never seen.
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Correct

Feed Me said:
Ibrahimovic hasn't done worse than Berbatov, so it's all good.
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:lol: Berbatov has zero to do with anything I've said regarding Zlatan.
 
Feed Me said:
Difference is, I don't resort to calling people fanbois. I'll respect your view on Ibrahimovic (even if I disagree) because despite the fact that you're a nutter, I do appreciate that you watch a hell of a lot of football. I also appreciate that the good stuff he has done, i.e. in Serie A, will have gone unnoticed by me. You won't hear me calling you an Ibra fanboi just because I disagree with you.

It does my fecking head in though when people call me a fanboi because I'm defending a player.
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Thats because anything he did in an Inter shirt was by 'World Class' levels.. essentially meaningless.

Alot of guys here have big 'Man love' for these tall elegant Van Basten-esque strikers.. when the truth of the matter is.. that both Berba and Ibra are ineffective at the highest level and both as bad as each other.

Arrogance without 'drive and determination' is not pretty and both have suffered now they are playing for elite teams where their natural talent doesn't stand out as much and application is needed.

That said.. I think I'd rather have Berba and I reckon Berba would be better for Barca with that superior midfield than he has been for us.
 
@pogue your post do come across as biased against nani and biased in favour of berbatov. even if it is not your intention, they come across that way. so while boss maybe wrong,even to a neutral observer, there did seem an element of bias in your post

or it may just be that we are reading your posts wrong
 
Feed Me said:
Difference is, I don't resort to calling people fanbois. .
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Neither have I.

Feed Me said:
....
It does my fecking head in though when people call me a fanboi because I'm defending a player.
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Same here. I keep being called a fan boy for defending players. Then called a hater for criticizing some. Yet I've never seen the point in letting my own bias cloud my judgment of a player.

& if it ever does. I point it out openly like when I talk about Gourcuff or Defoe.
 
sajeev said:
@pogue your post do come across as biased against nani and biased in favour of berbatov. even if it is not your intention, they come across that way. so while boss maybe wrong,even to a neutral observer, there did seem an element of bias in your post

or it may just be that we are reading your posts wrong
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I'm not wrong, there's a clear bias and I know many posters see it, atleast you have the balls to say something whilst everybody just sits reading, the hypocrisy on this forum is alarming at times.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Neither have I.

Same here. I keep being called a fan boy for defending players. Then called a hater for criticizing some. Y3t I've never seen the point in letting my own bias cloud my judgment of a player.

& if it ever does. I point it out openly like when I talk about Gourcuff or Defoe.
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That's the key
 
I've spent more time criticising Nani than I have Berbatov, these last two seasons, that's for sure.

Did it occur to any of you 'tards that might be because - in my opinion - Nani hasn't been playing as well as Berbatov has these last two seasons? Nani's been better these last two or three months but not throughout these last two years.

I always call it how I see it and I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as me but it's weird to assume that I would deliberately belittle one United player and big up another, for reasons that have nothing to do with my perception of their performance on the pitch. Why on earth would I do that?
 
For the first half of the season I thought all the hype surrounding Ibra was finally coming true. The moment I posted a comment on it he suddenly turned shit again.
 
I'm not a Zlatan fan but as a Swede I find it quite amazing that a Swedish player based in Spain got a 43 page thread on a Manchester United forum. I really don't get why the English seem to dislike him so much.
 
He looked shit against Arsenal too. He should have scored a lot more than two.
 
I told you, I wouldn't make this up Pogue, I'll always remember a statement so bloody strong.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/nani-269098/index12.html#post6937400

Pogue Mahone said:
The fact remains, it looks incredibly unlikely that SAF will look to sell Berbatov at the end of this season. He could have done better last season but has started this season very well, clearly has the class needed to succeed and Fergie has had nothing but praise for him.

As for Nani, if he continues to visibly frustrate SAF as much as we saw at the weekend there's a very real chance he will end up losing patience over the course of this season. He has repeatedly subbed Nani off early, gave him very few games last season and his recent comments about Giggs finally providing some "intelligence" were clearly aimed in Nani's direction. His curent status in the club is not remotely comparable with Berbatov's.

I actually think Fergie might give Nani one final season even if he has another poor one this time round but it would be ridiculous to try and claim his United career is in no more danger than that of Berbatov.
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https://www.redcafe.net/f6/nani-269098/index10.html#post6931395

Pogue Mahone said:
In other words, it's make or break season for Nani, but not for Berbatov.
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6 whole years younger
 
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In other words, Nani could have played as poorly as he started the season and still not get sold the summer. Lucky for him (and us) he upped his game big time but it was always unlikely he would get sold in the summer, no matter how poorly he played. As Kieran Richardson found out, being young is no protection against being sold. Being you and expensive though, makes the manager much more likely to back his judgement and be patient.

As for Berbatov he was even less likely to move on, especially considering his early season form.

I stand by all those comments. Ditto the ones about you making shit up.

What the feck any of this has to do with Ibrahimovic is anyone's guess, mind you.
 
I said that you claimed Nani had less time to show what he's got than Berbatov,despite being 6 years younger, you said I was making it up, I showed you proof I wouldn't lie about this, I don't need to, that is all.

You have a way with words so I am not going to go around this in circles with you, you know exactly what this is all about. I leave it at that.
 
Boss said:
I said that you claimed Nani had less time to show what he's got than Berbatov,despite being 6 years younger, you said I was making it up, I showed you proof I wouldn't lie about this, I don't need to, that is all.

You have a way with words so I am not going to go around this in circles with you, you know exactly what this is all about. I leave it at that.
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Dunno about having a way with words but I find they're best used in context, particularly the latter post you quoted above, which makes a lot more sense alongside the post I was quoting at the time (which you left out, for some reason).

Anyhoo, Ibrahimovic...
 
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