So we wouldn’t of done better? With kroos Casemiro and modric?
disclaimer: I don’t want Ole or Brendon. Not convinced by zidane, wouldnt say no, wouldn’t be hyped.
Zinedine Zidane - 3 time CL winning manager without a job
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
disclaimer: I don’t want Ole or Brendon. Not convinced by zidane, wouldnt say no, wouldn’t be hyped.
Link to said handle?
So you rate a set of players based on what they won, under and overperformances aren't a thing? During the last two seasons Real Madrid have won the title once, reached the CL semi finals once and finished at 2 points of the champions. Do you think that this team was on paper the best team in the world or close to it?
Not with a manager who's unable to use them, no. One or two players won't be enough to make the jump from getting 66-74 to close to 90 points.
Last 13 years Madrid won the league only 3 times and two of them were under Zidane. It's ridiculous to think that they only did it because they have great players while their league record has been pretty damn poor for years prior to him arriving. Not to mention he also won the league in his 2nd stint with a team far worse than the one that won the treble CL achievement.
You're free to be convinced by him or not. Discrediting him though is ridiculous.
It's more hypothesis which concludes nonsense. Zidane has overachieved given his managerial experiences. Ole has underachieved. To join this criteria of thought would Solskjaer have won back to back UCL and the La Liga title if he was in charge of Madrid ?
I don't see any United team walking the league under Solskjaer. Context is important, there was a period United were 1st in the league last season and the manager conceded that the team wasn't challenging despite being first. Ole has proven that his biggest weakness is actually his mentality.
And to think that we used to argue on opposite sides of the Zidane debate.
That's right. I changed my opinion on him during his 2nd stint at Madrid though, because as I said, he was still achieving with a team that's far worse than the team in his first stint, still kept them very competitive, won the league and challenged for CL. He proved he's a quality manager and it's not just players, so I don't know why this argument is still on. I'm always very flexible and know when someone convinces me he's good enough.
Was just looking up his second stint, as I don't watch La Liga, and the win percentage was the worst of any Real Madrid manager with more than 14 games since 2008.
Doesn't fill me with confidence.
And that's to your credit because I could understand why people put that much weight on the quality of his team during his first stint, having players like Ronaldo and Marcelo in their primes matters when it comes to winning silverware. The thing that I still don't understand is that many people, many analysts have highlighted the strength of Zidane which are tactical, the way he sets up Real Madrid and the way he routinely adapted in-game when things weren't going well, you can't do that repeatedly for several seasons and still have people question your abilities it makes no sense.
And during his second stint everyone wondered how they were going to do with their leaky defense, a subpar Marcelo, declining Modric and without Ronaldo's goals. The answer is obvious yet surprising, they improved their defense to historical levels with pretty much the same defensive players, he added Mendy who wasn't a defensive fullback before Madrid. So I will let Zidane fail first before doubting him.
I think you messed up is what I think.
I was responding to zidane being labelled a “phenomenal manager”
With the team he had at the time, I would say his success was amazing but not totally surprising given the team he had, I’d say they had a complete team with a manager that knew them very well, basically the perfect recipe for success
he’d be walking into the complete opposite situation here
Ole has a higher win percentage than Sir Matt Busby. Does that mean anything else ?
Not discrediting, just saying calling him a phenomenal manager is a bit extreme
I don’t think what he did was phenomenal.
What exactly have I messed up, as Real Madrid close to the best team in the world between 2019-2012? It's the first time that I see anyone suggest that Real Madrid were a perfect situation during that period, in fact the caf mainly thought that it was a tough rebuild for Real Madrid.
Think Busby had a better excuse, to be honest.
His achievements at Madrid were phenomenal. For some reason though I just think he'd be a really bad choice. No real logic to be honest. I think he's a short term manager and we'll need a medium term manager at least to get us back to the top
From what I've seen and read it's not so much that he doesn't have a style (you could probably quite safely predict inside forwards, advanced fullbacks, a lot of crosses and slightly ponderous possession football in most teams he ends up coaching). Or indeed that he isn't good tactically, in his own way. It's more that he isn't the sort of detailed system-manager the modern football meta has swung towards. And while Zidane's approach could work, I'd like us to modernise, all across the club.
Again, I’m not comparing Ole, no he wouldn’t of
won because i don’t think Ole is a good manager.
But I don’t think you’d need to be some absolute manager extraordinaire to win the league with one of the great Real Madrid teams.
There must be 100s of phenomenal managers out there if the criteria is “doing more than what Ole can do”
It's their worst squad of the last decade.
Last years? What was the starting XI generally?
They absolutely need a rebuild and I don’t envy the guy that has to do it because like us they’ll need a whole new midfield.
But zidane had those players.
Modric kroos Casemiro varane Ramos ascensio benzema were still very very good players who had played together for some time. The spine of the team has remained unchanged.
Courtois; Vasquez, Varane, Nacho, Mendy; Casemiro, Kroos, Modric; Vinicius, Someone, Benzema.
A declined Modric, Asensio isn't a particularly good player and was largely injured in 19/20 anyway, Ramos had declined and then was out for most of last season. So we are basically talking about 4 quality players in their prime, that's not close to the best team in the world, we both know it, so I don't see why you have an issue with that statement or can claim that I messed up.
PS: I'll also give you Courtois.
Well, he spent half a season with no chance to win anything and the squad was unmotivated and underperformed. He did that to save Florentino's ass.
Also since 2008 until Zidane's second stint, Madrid had squads with considerable firepower, so it makes sense they had good stats in absolute terms.
Ffs he had one of the best teams in the league if not the best and he won the league
He’s done well…it’s not phenomenal to win la liga with that team
edit: 19/20 Ramos played 35 games in la liga and scored 11 goals, so he did alright. Not sure why you keep mentioning 20/21 season
Zidane's work at Real is phenominal - nothing short. First manager in history for back to back Champions Leagues. Won 3 with them overall didn't he?
Are you serious? The post that you quoted was about his second stint and as far as I know it includes both seasons, not only you are unnecessarily rude but you are also starting to be a bit dumb?
ill side step the dumb comment, not a fan of making things personal.
i genuinely believed when talking about a manager being phenomenal, we’d be talking about their great seasons. But if you want to include last season that’s fine, so no I do not think Madrid last year were a “world 11” but they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they came second
The season before, they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they won.
I’d say that’s a good but not “phenomenal” job
He proved he was a quality manager when he won the Champions League 3 years in a row. Any other opinion is just you being churlish I’m afraid.
No manager wins just because of his players; all Man United fans should be well aware of this now if they weren’t before.
I didn't took ownership of the phenomenal label which is why I didn't mention it once, I simply added his second stint performances with a lesser team, a team that wasn't close to be the best in the world. Now you can call that stupid, messed up or whatever you want, that's your problem.
Wow, people are actually discrediting the job that Zidane did at Real Madrid. Its easy to say that he inherited a team glittered with world class players but history shows that is not enough. Pep had a collection of world class players and he couldn’t win the CL thrice. The original galacticos were not the all conquering team that they should have been on paper. Infact, Zidane took over from Benitez when the team was in the third place in La Liga. Its lazy criticism to reduce a phenomenal achievement to a mere good job.
Yes, Benitez struggled mightily. This nonsense around Zidane needs to stop.
This makes no sense. Zidane took over a team that was struggling to come together and were nowhere near challenging for La Liga or the CL under Benitez, he turned them into a 3-peating CL champions and won 2 la Ligas with them. He came back to a team in disarray and without one of the greatest players of their generation and offensive leader where the whole system was based around him and managed to win La Liga again when everyone thought it was a mistake to put his legacy at risk to coach that team.
Zidane is a great tactician, people really need to start getting that through their heads, he's just not dogmatic like some others, and those others he has repeatedly beaten when faced against them in high-stakes games. Tactical flexibility is superior to tactical dogma, especially because it takes an entire team of very specific players to execute those supremely rigid tactics, and United doesn't have those players and have spent enough as it is on mediocrity.
Is Zidane even a good coach or did he just have Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Kroos, Modric, Marcelo, Ramos, Varane, Carvajal all in the prime of their careers? Not To mention some of the most ridiculous refereeing decisions that led to some of those CL titles.
Honesty I wouldn’t even be excited in the slightest if he is appointed. Can we just take a risk and get someone like Erik Ten Hag for a change.
Honesty I wouldn’t even be excited in the slightest if he is appointed. Can we just take a risk and get someone like Erik Ten Hag for a change.
Are there any credible links or has this just stemmed from Duncan Castle going for clicks?
Just think that out of five seasons with something to compete the worst season consists of reaching one CL semifinal and finishing second one point behind the winner with a squad blown to pieces by COVID and injuries.
Less chitchat more tweets
Its on?
Its on?
Zizou, our front office may be incompetent, but we're willing to spend to get whoever you want (unlike Uncle Flo).
Answered above, people can throw around whatever they like, Reals team was so good so settled and just needed some fine turning, I find it difficult to say yes, he is an absolute must