Yves Bissouma / Signs for Spurs

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Why are people comaring him to McFred?

I see a lot of people complain about them as they are note technically great or great in the transition moving the ball forward. I think it is deeper than that. They dont have hreat positioning or awareness of what is around them. The only player we have that has that at the moment really for the double pivot is Matic who has his own weaknesses, age being the primary one.

Bissouma I think has this. Carrick was a very good defensive midfielder, especially in his latter years. And it wasnt due to physical attributes, tackling or pace.....it was that he was aware of what was around him, disciplined and positoinally excellent. I think Bissouma has this and he also has good pace and tackling, he doesnt have the passing attributes of Carrick but he does have good feet.

People calling him average I dont understand at all, feels like everybody wants technical and graceful players nowadays no matter where they play. I think there are better players than Bissouma..........but he is good all round, he does everything well and for me is definately more suited to the role of our double pivot than ANY of our current options. I think he would be a sound signing, not many I would take ahead of them and most of them would be more long term signings that may not slot in straight away like he could for me
 
Devil may care said:
I'm surprised nobody has moved for him, he's so good positionally and for us I think he'd address the holding role for us while being good enough on the ball for when we play low block teams and need to recycle the ball quickly and consistently.



It means he was jolly good old bean.
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Thanks
 
DWelbz19 said:
How is that clear at all? There’s nothing at all to suggest that Declan Rice is the one midfielder we want in the way Sancho was our main wide attacking target.

It’s hardly the Da Vinci code. If you stop yelling at those clouds you might be able to work it out.
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Hold tight, Robert Langdon is in the house.
 
Alemar said:
Fred is a starter for Brazil, they rarely start average players on a consistent basis. Apparently Fred is in fact quite decent
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fred is amazing. I rate him highly.. he may not be world class, but he's great at what he does and plays an important role in the team.
 
Eli Zee said:
fred is amazing. I rate him highly.. he may not be world class, but he's great at what he does and plays an important role in the team.
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Don’t worry it’ll be his fault on here if we draw or lose tomorrow. He regularly makes those kinds of high pressing tackles that lead to chances like Bissouma did today and he also puts in the same kind of busy performance enabling others to shine. Bissouma is stronger and has more presence. Personally I don’t think he’d be a huge upgrade on Fred but there you go. Some rotation options would be nice.
 
Ali Dia said:
Don’t worry it’ll be his fault on here if we draw or lose tomorrow. He regularly makes those kinds of high pressing tackles that lead to chances like Bissouma did today and he also puts in the same kind of busy performance enabling others to shine. Bissouma is stronger and has more presence. Personally I don’t think he’d be a huge upgrade on Fred but there you go.
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Its Fred's lack composure on the ball when pressed in deep positions as to why he'll never be a top CM. Also, his passing is extremely suspect.
 
DatIrishFella said:
Its Fred's lack composure on the ball when pressed in deep positions as to why he'll never be a top CM. Also, his passing is extremely suspect.
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He passea more creatively and progressively than Bissouma. Fairly sure he has better pass percentages across the board. Bissouma drives forward better but we already have McT for that. Bissouma does shield the ball better than Fred. Bissouma could develop into a better player than either of the two lads and as I said rotation would be nice but he’s currently not an upgrade
 
Fred’s becoming the new Carrick.

Posters doing drive bys talking about how brilliant he really is and how he’ll be blamed at the next loss when what we have is really is a good, sometimes great midfielder who clearly isn’t quite MUFC level. Posters mumbling how everyone else is blind and they’re somehow in the know.

Look, if Fred becomes better and takes a step up and becomes consistently great, we all benefit, but no use pretending what we’ve seen so far is MUFC quality. You’re not seeing something we can’t.
 
littleman said:
Fred’s becoming the new Carrick.

Posters doing drive bys talking about how brilliant he really is and how he’ll be blamed at the next loss when what we have is really is a good, sometimes great midfielder who clearly isn’t quite MUFC level. Posters mumbling how everyone else is blind and they’re somehow in the know.

Look, if Fred becomes better and takes a step up and becomes consistently great, we all benefit, but no use pretending what we’ve seen so far is MUFC quality. You’re not seeing something we can’t.
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Completely different player to Carrick. Compare him to Keita or Bissouma cause that’s what he is. Nobody is comparing Bissouma to Carrick.
 
RUCK4444 said:
So you think Ole is hoping to keep him in order to rotate on the left?
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I think what the media say and what Ole thinks privately aren't the same thing, I expect Pogba will leave next summer and Ole's got a good relationship with Pogba so he'll play him as he sees fit for 1 last season.
 
Brightonian said:
I'd say that's fairly obvious: people want a midfielder who can play in a two with Pogba (behind Bruno). And that would definitely have to be a proper disciplined sitting midfielder. Unless you can buy Kimmich or Verratti. Or resurrect Roy Keane.
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People are down playing midfielders who show tendency to get involved in he transition and are quick to label them as just box to box midfielders when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Verratti can be deployed in a deeper role but he isn't a DM. Kimmich plays for Bayern who have the right idea when it comes to midfield and deployed both Goretzka and Thiago in a midfield two in a UCL final. Bayern were also at the time very adept at playing a very high defensive line, with their midfielders positioned well into the opposition half which helped them press and counter press to a high level. Kimmich would be a fantastic signing because he's a all round midfielder and helps his team both in a defensive and offensive sense and he's capable of multitasking at a very high level.

Roy Keane was a box to box midfielder who got involved in the transition going forward but could also sit and stay disciplined when required. Patrick Viera was also of a similar profile and both players provided defensive stability aswell as a offensive threat which is what is required now IMO. What we shouldn't do is sign a player for the role who is solely a sitting midfielder because if the plan is to press high with counter pressing capabilities then you can't just sit.

I don't believe Solskjaer wants to play Pogba in a two against top quality teams. And if we signed a Kante like midfielder to play in midfield next to him, he (Pogba) would have to do his share of defensive work against the quality teams and also provide a counter pressing/wide pressing threat from mid field. And Pogba himself has admitted his defensive game isn't upto scratch.
 
Ali Dia said:
Completely different player to Carrick. Compare him to Keita or Bissouma cause that’s what he is. Nobody is comparing Bissouma to Carrick.
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They’re not comparing style of play, more how fans moan on about or overly praise both of them.
 
A lot of people are dismissive of our own players. Just look at how Lingard did at Westham and he's way down the pecking order for us.

If Fred or Mctomminay were at Brighton they'd be their best players.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
They myth's continue. The ONLY reason Ppgba hasn't worked in a 2 for us because we didn't have a good enough nor compatible starting center half pair. The notion he can't play with any dm in a 2 is stupid in the extreme.
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It's not the only reason now is it?

how many other top class CMs need to be babysat to play in CM?
 
For the record, I rate both Fred and McTominay highly.

I see them as box to box midfielders though, not holding or defensive midfielders.

Fred and to a lesser extent McTominay CAN play that role, but it's not their best position IMO.
 
Adnan said:
People are down playing midfielders who show tendency to get involved in he transition and are quick to label them as just box to box midfielders when that couldn't be further from the truth.

Verratti can be deployed in a deeper role but he isn't a DM. Kimmich plays for Bayern who have the right idea when it comes to midfield and deployed both Goretzka and Thiago in a midfield two in a UCL final. Bayern were also at the time very adept at playing a very high defensive line, with their midfielders positioned well into the opposition half which helped them press and counter press to a high level. Kimmich would be a fantastic signing because he's a all round midfielder and helps his team both in a defensive and offensive sense and he's capable of multitasking at a very high level.

Roy Keane was a box to box midfielder who got involved in the transition going forward but could also sit and stay disciplined when required. Patrick Viera was also of a similar profile and both players provided defensive stability aswell as a offensive threat which is what is required now IMO. What we shouldn't do is sign a player for the role who is solely a sitting midfielder because if the plan is to press high with counter pressing capabilities then you can't just sit.

I don't believe Solskjaer wants to play Pogba in a two against top quality teams. And if we signed a Kante like midfielder to play in midfield next to him, he (Pogba) would have to do his share of defensive work against the quality teams and also provide a counter pressing/wide pressing threat from mid field. And Pogba himself has admitted his defensive game isn't upto scratch.
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Something I’ve written about in relation to Varane’s arrival, which should see the whole central core push up 15-25 yards and condense the pitch, whilst having our deepest midfielder sat in the opposing half.

We need an eclectic DM at least, one who can read the play and play in accordance with it - expansive and progressive when we’re going forward and tight, controlled and able with: composure, short-passing, mobility and skill to beat the press in tight, 2-way games where we are equally attacking as defending.
 
He's the closest to what we need I think, but if we got Bissouma he'd play the more defensive box to box midfielder alongside Fred or McTominay. Which is fine until we can find an upgrade on them next summer.

The experiment with Pogba in midfield is closed, Bissouma or no Bissouma. The only player who could partner Pogs in midfield is pure DM like Ndidi, but he'd cost us big money and that midfield would lack any control (two specialists but not all rounded). Not worth it.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
A lot of people are dismissive of our own players. Just look at how Lingard did at Westham and he's way down the pecking order for us.

If Fred or Mctomminay were at Brighton they'd be their best players.
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I'm not saying Bissouma is or is not good enough - but I agree with this.
 
Devil may care said:
I think what the media say and what Ole thinks privately aren't the same thing, I expect Pogba will leave next summer and Ole's got a good relationship with Pogba so he'll play him as he sees fit for 1 last season.
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But we’re definitely offering him a renewal, that much we know. One has been offered and so far not taken up and we’re supposedly in ongoing negotiations that will almost certainly make him one of (if not the most) highly paid.

Personally I don’t think for a minute Ole plans, long term, with Pogba on the left. But I suppose we will never know unless a renewal is eventually agreed.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
A lot of people are dismissive of our own players. Just look at how Lingard did at Westham and he's way down the pecking order for us.

If Fred or Mctomminay were at Brighton they'd be their best players.
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Absolutely. Not saying we shouldn't always be seeing where we can improve but if fred was at a decent passing side like Brighton or Leeds we'd all be wanting him. Likewise if mctominay was at west ham he'd probably be outperforming rice. I don't want us to sign anybody that's not a clear upgrade
 
Fortitude said:
Something I’ve written about in relation to Varane’s arrival, which should see the whole central core push up 15-25 yards and condense the pitch, whilst having our deepest midfielder sat in the opposing half.

We need an eclectic DM at least, one who can read the play and play in accordance with it - expansive and progressive when we’re going forward and tight, controlled and able with: composure, short-passing, mobility and skill to beat the press in tight, 2-way games where we are equally attacking as defending.
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Agreed and I believe you make a good point of us signing a 'electric DM' which I interpret as being someone with high energy and fantastic ground coverage at pace which would help us enforce the press, high up the pitch. And like you state, he needs to be very good on the ball aswell, which should be a default criteria when looking at signing a midfielder to play the more defensive role in our midfield IMO.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
A lot of people are dismissive of our own players. Just look at how Lingard did at Westham and he's way down the pecking order for us.

If Fred or Mctomminay were at Brighton they'd be their best players.
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Yep. Whilst central midfield is probably our most weakest point, its still a midfield which finished 2nd and runners up in a Europa league. They’re pretty good players. Replacing them with players a lot lower down the table might be a bit of a shock for those so in favour for it.
 
Tarrou said:
such as?
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Iniesta and Xavi needed Busquets, Kroos and Modric needed Casemiro, and Fernandinho has been crucial for letting the likes of Silva and De Bruyne flourish. I don't consider it babysitting though, this is the case for any balanced midfield.
 
Idxomer said:
Iniesta and Xavi needed Busquets, Kroos and Modric needed Casemiro, and Fernandinho has been crucial for letting the likes of Silva and De Bruyne flourish. I don't consider it babysitting though, this is the case for any balanced midfield.
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but we’ve had players like Matic, Herrera and it still hasn’t worked

that isn’t to say it wouldn’t be better with an upgrade, but the partner is not the only reason it hasn’t worked

if Busquets was out did Barca not play Xavi and Iniesta in CM?

no because they were top class players who can adapt to different situations
 
Our fans downplayed the likes of Van Dijk, Sadio Mane and Andy Robertson from lowly clubs, so it doesn't surprise me to see similar comments attributed to Bissouma.
 
Tarrou said:
but we’ve had players like Matic, Herrera and it still hasn’t worked

that isn’t to say it wouldn’t be better with an upgrade, but the partner is not the only reason it hasn’t worked

if Busquets was out did Barca not play Xavi and Iniesta?

no because they were top class players who can adapt to different situations
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Their style of play made it possible to, they were so high up the pitch with the most extreme press they defended in the opponents half 90% of the time.

This is where, imo, a higher line from us allows Pogba in the pivot (with an improved partner) to become possible.
 
Adnan said:
Our fans downplayed the likes of Van Dijk, Sadio Mane and Andy Robertson from lowly clubs, so it doesn't surprise me to see similar comments attributed to Bissouma.
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I don’t think many are downplaying him are they?

I would like to see us sign him, Ive been impressed almost every time I’ve seen him play. My only question was whether he was a DM or if box to box was his preference.
 
Tarrou said:
but we’ve had players like Matic, Herrera and it still hasn’t worked

that isn’t to say it wouldn’t be better with an upgrade, but the partner is not the only reason it hasn’t worked

if Busquets was out did Barca not play Xavi and Iniesta in CM?

no because they were top class players who can adapt to different situations
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I don't believe they played in midfield without a cover behind them, Barca had Mascherano and Keita too back then.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I don’t think many are downplaying him are they?

I would like to see us sign him, Ive been impressed almost every time I’ve seen him play. My only question was whether he was a DM or if box to box was his preference.
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There's definitely a few if you scroll back up the page mate.

Bissouma is naturally strong defensively, so if he's asked to play a more disciplined role in midfield he can do that comfortably. But he's much more than just a defensive midfielder hence is asked to get forward by his manager and contribute going forward.

I'm not saying he's the only option for what we need from a defensive minded midfielder. But him being both strong defensively and having the ability to get forward if required to do so, makes him a more rounded midfielder in comparison to a few others in the league we have been linked with. I honestly don't want to see a midfielder like Rice or Ndidi at the club due to their limitations going forward which is quite important in a team that wants to impose their game on the opposition and play a high defensive line where the midfielders will be camped in the opposition half.
 
Adnan said:
Our fans downplayed the likes of Van Dijk, Sadio Mane and Andy Robertson from lowly clubs, so it doesn't surprise me to see similar comments attributed to Bissouma.
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It doesn’t surprise me to see our fans downplay our own quality players either.

Yves Bissouma can be a good player without being a significant upgrade on what we have, you know.
 
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