Yves Bissouma / Signs for Spurs

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Tchouameni has a fantastic leap on him and wins plenty of aerial duels from what I've seen of him. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the top 3 midfielders in Ligue 1 for aerials.

I think Garner and Tchouameni would be a potentially very good pairing. Tchouameni is very strong defensively and reads the game superbly well. His defensive game is quite impressive for someone so young, who is playing in Niko Kovac's team, where he's expected to perform different tasks depending on the opposition. He's still only 21 and along with being good technically, he's also very strong physically.

So alongside Jimmy Garner, he (Tchouameni) would be the more defensive player, whilst Garner would be the more adventurous in a two. But that does depend on Garner stepping upto to the plate at first team level at the club.

And like you said, there is value signings to be made. But if Solskjaer is fixated on Declan Rice, who West Ham want a exorbitant sum for, then it will be a case of the manager wasn't backed, whilst the likes of Bissouma and Tchouameni will end up at rival clubs, costing less than half what Rice will cost.

@Cman
 
Beachryan said:
Just think if you're going to fill that positoin, you go for Rice and work out a way to manage the extra 15/20m. Really think it's a no brainer if you're picking between the two, expecially in terms of profile, squad and so forth.
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West Ham is looking for 90m for Rice according to reports, whereas Bissouma would only cost 30/40m. So it’s just not an extra 15/20m, it’s more like a 50/60m difference. He would cost more than Sancho too.
 
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What is so good about this guy?

I feel our fans rate him alot even sometimes more than the Brighton fans from when talking to some here.

He dribbles quite a lot as a CDM and can find himself out of position a bit isn’t it? I don’t see how he is a CDM exactly.
 
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Adnan said:
Tchouameni has a fantastic leap on him and wins plenty of aerial duels from what I've seen of him. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the top 3 midfielders in Ligue 1 for aerials.

I think Garner and Tchouameni would be a potentially very good pairing. Tchouameni is very strong defensively and reads the game superbly well. His defensive game is quite impressive for someone so young, who is playing in Niko Kovac's team, where he's expected to perform different tasks depending on the opposition. He's still only 21 and along with being good technically, he's also very strong physically.

So alongside Jimmy Garner, he (Tchouameni) would be the more defensive player, whilst Garner would be the more adventurous in a two. But that does depend on Garner stepping upto to the plate at first team level at the club.

And like you said, there is value signings to be made. But if Solskjaer is fixated on Declan Rice, who West Ham want a exorbitant sum for, then it will be a case of the manager wasn't backed, whilst the likes of Bissouma and Tchouameni will end up at rival clubs, costing less than half what Rice will cost.

@Cman
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Thank for the quick and in depth reply, love your work as always. I had a look at his aerial stats and your right they are super impressive. 2.7 per 90 mins and 94%!! Could massively improve us at defending set pieces.
As I said before I have only watched him on YouTube and got an insight to him through yourself and other posters( @justsomebloke) wrote this in another thread
“ TCHOUAMENI: Doesn't seem to bring much offensively. Good on ball progression though. Excellent defensively - in fact, best stats of anyone for successful presses and tackles+interceptions.
Given he stats, age and size I’m surprised we are not being linked to him.
 
Personally I think there are better options than Bissouma in the same price range. He brings very little offensively, and doesn't seem to be very influential in moving the ball up the pitch either. Also think it's very hard to see the case for Declan Rice, especially at the price we'd be talking about there.
 
justsomebloke said:
Personally I think there are better options than Bissouma in the same price range. He brings very little offensively, and doesn't seem to be very influential in moving the ball up the pitch either. Also think it's very hard to see the case for Declan Rice, especially at the price we'd be talking about there.
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We don't want him for his offensive abilities, or lack of. We want him for his shielding of the defence through tackling, interceptions etc and that'll allow Pogba to roam from deep, just like Fernandinho allows de Bruyne to.
 
I like him but I'm not sure he's that pure DM people think he is, I see him as a better version of Fred so a bit of a water carrier

As a pure destroyer Ndidi is better, if you want a Carrick like sitter than Rice would be your man

30m would be a good bit of business for someone who has a requirement for that type of player - Liverpool to replace Wijnaldum, Spurs as a younger Sissoko upgrade, Arsenal because they play Elneny

Just don't think he's quite what we're in need of
 
Adnan said:
Tchouameni has a fantastic leap on him and wins plenty of aerial duels from what I've seen of him. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the top 3 midfielders in Ligue 1 for aerials.

I think Garner and Tchouameni would be a potentially very good pairing. Tchouameni is very strong defensively and reads the game superbly well. His defensive game is quite impressive for someone so young, who is playing in Niko Kovac's team, where he's expected to perform different tasks depending on the opposition. He's still only 21 and along with being good technically, he's also very strong physically.

So alongside Jimmy Garner, he (Tchouameni) would be the more defensive player, whilst Garner would be the more adventurous in a two. But that does depend on Garner stepping upto to the plate at first team level at the club.

And like you said, there is value signings to be made. But if Solskjaer is fixated on Declan Rice, who West Ham want a exorbitant sum for, then it will be a case of the manager wasn't backed, whilst the likes of Bissouma and Tchouameni will end up at rival clubs, costing less than half what Rice will cost.

@Cman
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I think going for Tchouameni makes a lot of sense just as going for Fabinho made a few years back. The club acceded to the manager's demands then and we ended up with a player that was only at his best for a couple of years after spending a similarly huge fee and Fabinho has gone on to win two big titles with our fiercest rivals, shot ourselves in the foot then and I hope we won't repeat the same mistake again.

My biguest worry is that we won't even go for a DM and we will suffer fielding McFred in the big games again. This will hurt us in the fight for big honors again.
 
pascell said:
We don't want him for his offensive abilities, or lack of. We want him for his shielding of the defence through tackling, interceptions etc and that'll allow Pogba to roam from deep, just like Fernandinho allows de Bruyne to.
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That's the approach I am questioning. I do not think we should be looking for a defensive specialist for the pivot, and I also don't think that getting one will allow Pogba to play effectively in the pivot. Furthermore, Fernandinho brings a lot more to the table than Bissouma in other aspects of the game. City has never employed pure defensive specialists in that role, and we shouldn't either.
 
charlenefan said:
I like him but I'm not sure he's that pure DM people think he is, I see him as a better version of Fred so a bit of a water carrier

As a pure destroyer Ndidi is better, if you want a Carrick like sitter than Rice would be your man

30m would be a good bit of business for someone who has a requirement for that type of player - Liverpool to replace Wijnaldum, Spurs as a younger Sissoko upgrade, Arsenal because they play Elneny

Just don't think he's quite what we're in need of
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Statistically, he's very significantly inferior to Fred in most aspects. So is Rice, for that matter.
 
justsomebloke said:
Statistically, he's very significantly inferior to Fred in most aspects. So is Rice, for that matter.
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That's interesting, I like Fred, I don't think he's been great in recent weeks but I like him which is why I wouldn't want a player I see as very similar to him
 
It’s not exactly inspiring - coming from Brighton for 30m is he really going to be much of an improvement on McFred even? We need someone who’ll bring out the best in Pogba and free him up. Has to be someone with the quality to play the defensive stuff without someone backing him up.
 
We've been trying to 'free up' Pogba for about 5 years now. It won't happen.
 
charlenefan said:
That's interesting, I like Fred, I don't think he's been great in recent weeks but I like him which is why I wouldn't want a player I see as very similar to him
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He's not actually very similar to him. Bissouma has much less offensive input and impact, presses much less (though that may of course reflect differences in how BHA and United play) and is much weaker at moving the ball forward than Fred is. On stats at least, Fred is essentially an all-rounder, Bissouma essentially a defensive specialist.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sorry let me clarify, out of those linked to United
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Oh my bad, I have no clue. I don't think there is a stand out DM.

I hope we get someone from Europe for £30m or something that is very good technically.

I honestly think we need a technically sound DM to help us, we just cannot pass the football through midfield at the moment.
 
justsomebloke said:
He's not actually very similar to him. Bissouma has much less offensive input and impact, presses much less (though that may of course reflect differences in how BHA and United play) and is much weaker at moving the ball forward than Fred is. On stats at least, Fred is essentially an all-rounder, Bissouma essentially a defensive specialist.
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Yeah I don't look too much into the stats, the eye test says to me he's a similar kind of player (a good player) but not someone we should be looking at
 
justsomebloke said:
Looking at pressing as well as defence, I'd say Kamara, Camavinga and Tchouameni (though not sure if he has been linked). But of course it depends on what traits you are emphasising.
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I suppose what I’m getting at is how you rate rice, ndidi, etc. There’s obviously a lot saying no to him purely based in assumed price. I’m just wondering would they choose him if all players were roughly the same price range?
 
golden_blunder said:
I suppose what I’m getting at is how you rate rice, ndidi, etc. There’s obviously a lot saying no to him purely based in assumed price. I’m just wondering would they choose him if all players were roughly the same price range?
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Stats-wise, I think it's really hard to see the case for Rice. He's roughly similar to McFred in offensive end product (xg+xa). His passing accuracy is lower than either of them. For forward passing, he's far below both of them both in progressive distance of passes and the number of progressive passes played (on a per 90 minutes basis). More forward carries than Fred, but fewer than McTominay. Slightly better than McT in shot creating actions, but much worse than Fred. Well below both in touches in the offensive 3rd/90. Presses slightly more than McT, but much less than Fred. Lower success rate of presses than both of them. More tackles and interceptions than McT, but fewer than Fred. Much less ball contact (touches/90) than either of them.

There might be other stats, intangibles and a potential for better things on a better team, but I think it's hard to see the outlines of a firm case for him. And eye-test doesn't really significantly alter that picture for me.

Not looked at Ndidi, but from previous stats analysis posted on other threads, it's clear he's pretty much a purely defensive asset who won't improve you in other areas.
 
charlenefan said:
I like him but I'm not sure he's that pure DM people think he is, I see him as a better version of Fred so a bit of a water carrier

As a pure destroyer Ndidi is better, if you want a Carrick like sitter than Rice would be your man

30m would be a good bit of business for someone who has a requirement for that type of player - Liverpool to replace Wijnaldum, Spurs as a younger Sissoko upgrade, Arsenal because they play Elneny

Just don't think he's quite what we're in need of
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30M for a player of Bissouma's quality is superb in todays market. Considering Rice is valued at 3x that - I dont think we can rule our Bissouma as a clever buy.

I think he's much better than both Fred and McTominey - although the bar isn't set high there in McTominey's case.

Bissouma offers more on the ball and a better workrate/defensive cover than both. It's whether Bissouma would work with Fred as a pairing for me. I think Fred plays in our team. He's undervalued by many but he's here to stay. I think Fred could be better as more of an #8 as he can carry the ball well too.

I've watched Ndidi more this year as the links and hype continue. He's a good player - but I think we as a fan base who are craving a DM to replace Matic are over hyping him. He's good, but not all that really. He's either 10/10 or 5/10. Goes missing often.

I've not heard anyone describe Rice as a Carrick type before. People forget how good Carrick was, he was a superb footballer and an elite passer of the ball. Rice doesn't come close to matching that. Rice is a massively over rated over hyped player. He's worth about 30Mil - but the hype train has him at 90mil, He's the transfer I hope we avoid the most this summer.

If Bissouma is good enough for Liverpool as you say - why isn't he good enough for us? You should base a transfer on what it can bring to your team. Would Bissouma improve our midfield? I'd answer 100%

The question for us should be: Can we do better? I think we probably could - but I wouldnt be unhappy if we signed Bissouma as he does improve our x11
 
Craig Ward said:
30M for a player of Bissouma's quality is superb in todays market. Considering Rice is valued at 3x that - I dont think we can rule our Bissouma as a clever buy.

I think he's much better than both Fred and McTominey - although the bar isn't set high there in McTominey's case.

Bissouma offers more on the ball and a better workrate/defensive cover than both. It's whether Bissouma would work with Fred as a pairing for me. I think Fred plays in our team. He's undervalued by many but he's here to stay. I think Fred could be better as more of an #8 as he can carry the ball well too.

I've watched Ndidi more this year as the links and hype continue. He's a good player - but I think we as a fan base who are craving a DM to replace Matic are over hyping him. He's good, but not all that really. He's either 10/10 or 5/10. Goes missing often.

I've not heard anyone describe Rice as a Carrick type before. People forget how good Carrick was, he was a superb footballer and an elite passer of the ball. Rice doesn't come close to matching that. Rice is a massively over rated over hyped player. He's worth about 30Mil - but the hype train has him at 90mil, He's the transfer I hope we avoid the most this summer.

If Bissouma is good enough for Liverpool as you say - why isn't he good enough for us? You should base a transfer on what it can bring to your team. Would Bissouma improve our midfield? I'd answer 100%

The question for us should be: Can we do better? I think we probably could - but I wouldnt be unhappy if we signed Bissouma as he does improve our x11
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Well, the stats flatly contradict that Bissouma offers more on the ball, or in the press, or in terms of any kind of impact in the attacking third than either Fred or McTominay does. I think we have much better options.
 
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Craig Ward said:
If Bissouma is good enough for Liverpool as you say - why isn't he good enough for us? You should base a transfer on what it can bring to your team. Would Bissouma improve our midfield? I'd answer 100%
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He's good enough for Liverpool because he'd be going there as the 4th choice midfielder assuming their first choice midfield is Fabinho/Henderson/Thiago

If the objective is to sign that level of player then yeah go and sign him but the objective for us should be to sign a midfielder who then makes Fred and or McTominay 3rd and 4th choice and by a considerable margin. Bissouma may well be better than both but he's not going to transform the midfield considerably
 
Good player, but not convinced he is top tier.
 
Will he close the gap to City? Yes, to the extent he would improve the squad.

But does he have the quality to help us match or even overtake City? No.

We're already the second best team in the league. If we're going to spend big, it should be for a long term first teamer, not another squad level player.

He's less expensive than Rice, but he's also less good. Bissouma would the right option to run a business but the wrong option to build a winning football team.
 
I don't see how this guy is "much" better than what we have as is being described by some posters. A good player, potentially good value for somebody, maybe. But is he really anything but competition for what we have, does Bissouma come to Utd and demand a first team spot over Fred, for instance?

Is he really providing something additional over and above Fred, because I don't see why you would want to play that pair. He is either a good improvement or offering us something very different or it is somewhat a waste of time. I'm open to being convinced on this point but as yet I am really not seeing it. I would say at least with Rice I do see something a bit different in the positions he takes up, his play from deep, although I am still unconvinced in the value proposition.

The fanciful notion of pairing him off with Pogba isn't convincing either, we've tried that plenty, why is Bissouma this colossus that can hold the fort with limited help depending on Pogba's mood? He's not, he's just a good player. Now Ndidi...maybe there is a better argument for that because he does seem to be a bit of a defensive juggernaut, but you are really nailing your colours to the mast by signing him in forgoing progressive play from that position, so that isn't trouble free.
 
charlenefan said:
I like him but I'm not sure he's that pure DM people think he is, I see him as a better version of Fred so a bit of a water carrier

As a pure destroyer Ndidi is better, if you want a Carrick like sitter than Rice would be your man

30m would be a good bit of business for someone who has a requirement for that type of player - Liverpool to replace Wijnaldum, Spurs as a younger Sissoko upgrade, Arsenal because they play Elneny

Just don't think he's quite what we're in need of
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I agree with this but I don’t actually think he’s an automatic upgrade on Fred currently. he looks like he could be in the future but not right now. He’s probably as useful as McT and a good rotation option for both players.
 
Looks a really tidy player. Always in a good poaition, not a bad passer of the ball and the way he closed down on the Wtaford defender to poke the ball to Maupay for the 2nd goal was so smartly done.
 
Curious that there’s been no real speculation about him.
 
He can go box to box but he really is a DM, just that he can get forward. Has an excellent tackle on him and tracks runners. Crucially he's great on the ball so can get away from pressure, and has a solid pass on him.

At a big team I think he'd be up there with Fabinho and Fernandinho as the best DMs in the league.
 
He was very good today
 
It's clear that Rice is the player Ole wants and he's going to wait for him like he did with Sancho. It's a damn shame though because there are lots of other good options out there, this guy being one of them.
 
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