Gnagnom has potential to become a regular France NT defender. He's just unexperienced because he's an U21 NT player.
Yerry Mina - Everton Player
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Gnagnom has potential to become a regular France NT defender. He's just unexperienced because he's an U21 NT player.
Just out of curiosity, if O. Dembele leaves Barcelona this summer (rumors heating up that he may go to Arsenal), would you be equally as unforgiving with this pessimism and frame it like with Mina, that he's a Barca reject and not good enough?
Hardly even remotely similar situation. Dembele injured himself in his debut as a starter then again injured himself in his comeback. He missed most of the season recovering from injuries or was sidelined in that period. Mina on the other hand...
The sample size is so small though to properly evaluate Mina at Barca. Last year he was bought in January so there was no way he was getting minutes going into the most important stretch of the season. Also I personally think he's a bad fit at Barca because he's not really a ball playing defender. He might flourish playing in a different style though. But like many have said I can't see Mourinho wanting him.
Indeed. Same with attacking set pieces we didnt score many considering the height and physicality of our side especially when Fellaini is on too. Plus Young was available and as he showed for England that theres nothing wrong with his delivery.
So considering the real weakness of our defense last season and the lack of scoring despite our physical gifts, Mina definitely does seem to tick some of the boxes for improving what we have.
The problem is - while you're right that Mina is good at attacking set pieces - he is also too slow in defence. So we might score more headers from corners, but we'd also be killed on the break with two 33 year old full backs and an equally slow central defender.
The reason Mina is framed as not good enough is because he's not good enough right now - and United need experience at the back. Dembele is completely different. We literally have nothing on the right hand side of our midfield. And Dembele is the best option around if he's available.
What's your take on Mina's situation exactly then? The one below by Johnny Love sounds very balanced. And if anything, seems to me like Mina has just as much reason to not have become a regular starter for Barca besides the 'not good enough' stuff. I know nothing of the player besides his World Cup performances. And it really seems like a lot of the negativity is coming from similarly little background .
January transfers are so tough. What's to say he couldn't be like Evra or Vidic and adapt brilliantly in time?
My take is that he's in the Chygrynskiy situation. Bought him, didn't work for a season, now they have a replacement in Lenglet. They need to sell him at the same price or at a loss. Or wait for an idiot to pay premium at the end of the window.
If Mina stays he won't play this season apart from an occasional Copa del Rey or if some of the others before him in the pecking order is injured.
Agree with that completely and why I'd rather Alderweireld that Maguire even.
But I don't follow why Dembele gets a pass if he's moved on to, say, Arsenal. It hasn't happened and is only rumor .But if it does I'd have to reconsider either how good I thought Dembele is or accept some sort of mutual benefit economic decision. Most would go to the latter with Dembele but not Mina, which I think is unfair.
Seems he only had a half season though (I didn't know this previously). Also, Lenglet does seem to fit their style much more aptly. I guess I'm not as fearful that putting £30-40 mil on him would be the worst decision. He may just suit our league better. More than anything else, I'd give a new guy a chance after seeing too many seasons of Darmian, Blind, and Rojo.
I think if we are going to get him for 30m> then it’s a great deal and we should go for it.
Is there any credible sources for this one steal? Seems to be a lot of smoke, but no credible fire.
Finally a transfer we can all get excited about.
Why would anyone pay 30-40m pounds for someone who was worth 12m euros 8 months ago and played handful of matches since then? Strikes me of Kleberson buy and apart from the goals he didn't really strike me as something special at the back for Collombia.
If that's the case then we should offer 30m pounds for Vermaelen who was better for Barca last year and defensively better than Mina at the WC.
Mina isn't the Mourinho type of defender either(in terms of age, experience), especially with so many young defenders already in.
He won't improve us straight away and we have around 3-4 defenders who are better than him and already adjusted to the club and the new league.
If we're to replace one of our crocks on the bench with him and get him for 12m EUR then yea, but the quoted value makes no sense. Especially if defenders like Toby are on the market.
Is there anyone here who has watched Mina for more than 10 games so that they can have a more informed idea of what kind of player he is? Even the Barca fans have only watched him for 5 games this year when he joined them in January. From the reports I have seen about his time in Palmeiras, he was pretty good and did scoop up quite a number of awards in the Brazilian league, thus Barca's interest in him. I don't think our board will do a signing that is not on Jose's wishlist in the first place, like what Chelsea did with the Djilobodji signing.
The bashing of him here by some even though we most prob have not watched him much is really getting out of hand, in my opinion. Maybe Jose really has him higher up the list than Maguire or Toby? We can't say for sure that this is not the case.
Situation reminds me of the Matic signing - lots of us here,myself included, said we should have gone for someone younger like Fabinho instead. However, Matic proved us all wrong, and I am glad that this has been the case. I hope if we do sign Mina, he goes on to be a smashing player for us.
The bashing of him here by some even though we most prob have not watched him much is really getting out of hand, in my opinion. Maybe Jose really has him higher up the list than Maguire or Toby? We can't say for sure that this is not the case.
Situation reminds me of the Matic signing - lots of us here,myself included, said we should have gone for someone younger like Fabinho instead. However, Matic proved us all wrong, and I am glad that this has been the case. I hope if we do sign Mina, he goes on to be a smashing player for us.
Sanchez was a Barcelona reject too, so was Deolofeu, obviously not every Barca reject is the same quality.
Mina on the other hand has been as bad as Vidic on his first half season for us.
Not saying that he'll ever become good (I have no clue about it) but if people are making their decisions based on having watched 5 matches of him for Barca or cause Barca wants him out, then their opinion is worth nothing. For what is worth, I think that he was great in World Cup (much better than Sanchez for example) but still the sample is too small to have an educated opinion about him.
No idea about Dembele but Demebele is an incredible talent. Mina may be better than his stint at Barcelona suggests but I've never heard anyone claim hes that outstanding a talent. Also Barcelona won't let him go because they know he's a special talent. IMO of course.
Neither Smalling nor Bailey are slow, and most likely they will partner him (to be fair, they would be first choice, with Mina and Lindeloff being backups). Valencia is still very fast, while Young is not slow at all despite being 33.
We play quite a low defense, so it shouldn't be a problem anyway.
It's a valid point that you can't judge him purely from Barcelona games, but it's also a valid point that how good he was for Palmeiras doesn't neccessarily translate to being good in a top European league. Plenty of players have looked dominant in lesser leagues and then not been able to replicate that abroad, so the fact is that Mina would still be a gamble for any side going for him, and do United really want to be gambling on another young defender? Feel like what you need (and have been after in Alderweireld) is more or less the proven deal.
If we sign Arnoutavic we might never have to play the ball along the ground again!
Kleberson also looked mighty fine at the WC. Vidic example doesn't really hold water as we didn't have 3-4 players better than him in that position and had to give him more chances as we didn't bring in another defender in the Summer.
On the other hand Barca already bought another defender at the same age, Vermaelen looked no worse than Mina at the WC and is already ahead of him in the pecking order.
Why would you pay premium to buy another inexperienced defender who won't improve us right away?
Vermaelen actually looked much worse than Mina in the world cup, but continue. Until Colombia got eliminated, Mina was one of the best CBs in the tournament and much better than Davison Sanchez for example. Vermaelen was a backup player so didn't show much in WC.
Anyway, yes, 4 matches in WC mean feck all. Similarly, 5 matches for Barca mean feck all too.
He has like one terrible game. Other than that's it's not out of ordinary for new guy joining in January not set the world ablaze.
Any signings is gamble. Toby injuries last couple season is gamble. If Tottenham genuinely wants to help then lower the asking price. Our CBs missed chunks of game through injuries, so to get somebody who can stay fit and with potential is not the worst idea, even if it's just side way move in term of quality.
Read the Maguire thread. I think most people think he's just an Ent who can try to play football.
I don't know a thing about him, so can't comment, but i wonder if this was the reaction of the caf when we signed Fellaini?
That's what I thought too, he had better world cup than Davinson Sanchez and Colombia looked good defensively with him in the team.
Whaaaaaa? In almost every Colombia game I watched, Sanchez was covering for Mina's mistakes. Sanchez is 22 and has a far bigger future than Mina, IMO.
It's always easier to catch the eye when you are an attacker. Also, Dembele was playing in Europe and was more "visible" to football fans, compared to Mina in the Brazilian league.
I read the Twitter thread by this guy, Simon Edwards, who is supposed to be a football journo covering South American football, and he followed Mina's progress as a teenager through the Brazilian league. Here are Mina's achievements so far (before his Barca move) according to him:
If true, I can see why Jose might want to get Mina in. He could be our "John Terry" under Jose.
Different people noticed different things I guess. When I was watching the WC matches, I was impressed by his performances, and had no idea who he was. I didn't even know he was a Barca player! What I could see was a player who was superb in the air as he had a great leap coupled together with his height. Also, he seemed "clumsy" but was actually quite calm on the ball. Might have just been me though.
Nope. Mina was far better, heck even in redcafe (which now seems to think that he is shit) he was getting mentioned in team of the tournament on that original thread.
Mina is just 23, hardly an old man, so he might have a bright future too. Just cause he failed in Barca (a lot of players have failed in a big - or not even that big club, see Alderweireld), it doesn't mean that he is shit.
Fair enough. I guess we'll see. I'm not saying Mina was poor by any means or I don't rate Mina, I just believe Sanchez is the better play right now. Hopefully if United buy Mina (I personally believe it's all smokescreen) then he realizes his potential.
This. Toby was not a success at Atletico, despite signing for them for 7m Euros in 2013, which is quite a fee for a CB. He was sent out on loan after a season as well. Now he is regarded as one of the best CB in the league. Strange how a different league and some patience/luck/confidence can change a player's career.
I'll give up if we sign him. He will not be an upgrade on what we already have IMO, and don't see why we would give Barcelona a 30M profit on a player that has failed to live up to expectations for them. Theres a very valid reason why they are getting rid of Mina and upgrading him with Lenglet. He's shite. We should be signing Lenglet and not him. Would reinforce our shambles of a transfer strategy when it comes to buying defenders. We're just not very good at it at all and that's why we are stuck with Fergusons signings 5 years after he has retired. An absolute disgrace.
Mina averaged what? 1 interception and 1 tackle per game? They played the worst Polish side I've seen in years, beat Senegal and held England to a draw with him on the pitch. He won 4-5 headers per game, most of them in the attacking third.
He didn't play 4 matches, but 3 and hardly was imposing figure in the defence either. He got most of the credit because of the decisive goals more than his defensive contribution if you ask me.
We can agree to disagree. It's the other way around. Davidson Sanchez looks bang average this WC. The first game vs Japan where Mina was not started, Davidson Sanchez got schooled by Japanese players. The sequence of play leading to the penalty you would have thought he was marking prime Zlatan. Clearly outplayed by Japanese forward despite the physicality difference
Well, Maguire did hardly more on his 6 or so matches to be fair, and there are people who want him for 70m here. He was hardly imposing too and England lost 3 matches, and draw 1.
You can practically say the same things for Maguire what people say for Mina. Including going for around the same fee 6-12 months ago.
They were both decent, none of them was particularly impressive and for some reason some really want to overrate both.
And Maguire and Toby both averaged 1 tackle and 0.6/0.7 interceptions per game in the world cup.
Signing all these defender's every summer is causing a real do-Mina effect.
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