Yaya Touré: "I want to destroy the Pep myth" (France Football interview)

Cassidy said:
But isnt that what I said. Action or consequences shouldnt come without proof. But people should most certainly speak out as it happens and not wait for proof
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Uhhh I think we're all waiting for proof in this thread tbh. I'm dying to read the full transcript.
Although I have to say, if there were truly more juicy details, it would have been all over the front pages by now. So I'm not expecting many revelations.
 
OL29 said:
Not going to quote specific posts but arguing that Pep can't be racist because he's fallen out with players before or because he's had black players in his teams previously smacks of ignorance. Not too mention the constant use of the term 'race card' which is extremely patronising to say the least. Like I said previously, I'm not passing judgement until I see the accusations in full but the reactions of some in here whenever race gets brought up is embarrassing.
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well I would expect a racist to be consistent no? otherwise it seems more likely that he has an issue with Toure (a known prick) as opposed to black players in general surely? Why would Toure be the black player victim to the "Grand Wizard of Catalonia" St Pep's wrath? Abidal mentioned that he and Pep beefed about speaking French but developed massive respect for Pep afterwards and praised him as having class. I get the feeling he is more a control freak, and Zlatan also mentioned about treating players like children as did Abidal.

I too hate the term race card, as it is almost dismissive of racism as a real experience.

That said, Toure has previous and reading the quotes they seem absurd. "But the day he will line up a team in which we find five Africans, not naturalised, I promise I will send him a cake.” Why does he need to pass this criteria? not even Wenger could manage this at Arsenal. Why don't French Africans count or Naturalised ones? Yaya has spent the last 17 years in Europe......

"The player also stated that he considered posting his training statistics from the club’s physical trainers on social media in a bid to vent his frustration before deciding against it because he did not want to “hurt the team"

" I have the impression that Pep, without acknowledgment or respect, did everything to spoil my last season"

the gist is that he felt fit and should be playing more but Pep was shafting him. He also felt that King Yaya should be ferried into and out of the ground on a golden horse and carriage, with a birthday cake. The team accrued 100 pts and broke records without him. Yaya needs to get a grip. He was surplus to requirements and is a spoilt baby.
 
Cassidy said:
But isnt that what I said. Action or consequences shouldnt come without proof. But people should most certainly speak out as it happens and not wait for proof
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Sorry, read your post wrong. But if one speaks out as it happens, who is responsible for the damage to the accused's integrity should the accusations prove false? Say these false accusations are never disproved and Pep is driven to depression and suicide because of it, who is responsible?

I don't fault you for protecting the quietly abused, not at all. But also spare a thought for the falsely accused.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
Yeah is Pep a raging racist or Toure a deluded fool?
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Or the third option, for those of us that don't see things in black or white. Was there a misunderstanding somewhere?

Ironically I have no love for Yaya, like most in here. Doesn't and shouldn't affect how I see this tho, it's a separate issue until it isn't (if it turns out to be false and agenda driven as opposed to a misunderstanding then he'll deserve most of what will inevitably be coming his way).

Just like we're saying Pep most likely isn't racist until proven otherwise, I feel that Yaya should be afforded the same open minded approach. I.e, it's most likely not a lie until proven otherwise.

Too much to ask tho it seems... Judging by a lot of the comments in ITT.

On that note, I'm out until we hear the rest of the story (has anyone else addressed this? Pep? Other players?etc.)

Somebody tag me when that happens....
 
Ramshock said:
I find it hard to believe. Being Catalonian I think it wouldnt be in his nature to be discriminate against anyone but ya never know.
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Is there a reason why you believe Catalan people can't have prejudice against black people / ethnic minorities? Genuine question.

I've read a fair bit that would suggest otherwise. Which isn't to say that Catalan folk are racist en masse, but to say that they're not a seems pretty huge leap.
 
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afrocentricity said:
Or the third option, for those of us that don't see things in black or white. Was there a misunderstanding somewhere?

Ironically I have no love for Yaya, like most in here. Doesn't and shouldn't affect how I see this tho, it's a separate issue until it isn't (if it turns out to be false and agenda driven as opposed to a misunderstanding then he'll deserve most of what will inevitably be coming his way).

Just like we're saying Pep most likely isn't racist until proven otherwise, I feel that Yaya should be afforded the same open minded approach. I.e, it's most likely not a lie until proven otherwise.

Too much to ask tho it seems... Judging by a lot of the comments in ITT.

On that note, I'm out until we hear the rest of the story (has anyone else addressed this? Pep? Other players?etc.)

Somebody tag me when that happens....
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The only reason why people don't take Toure very seriously is that he has a history of saying daft things. Nothing to do with racism at all.
 
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Treble said:
The only reason why people don't take Toure very seriously is that he has a history of saying daft things. Nothing to do with rassism at all.
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Did I say otherwise? In that same post you quoted I pointed out that I'm aware of it and it still doesn't influence how I read this situation. In summary my post was saying that I'll wait and see. While pointing out that a lot of people have made their minds up already, and are waiting for someone our something to change it, or maybe never will...

Feck is rassism anyway? Prejudiced against Rastafarians?

Hope that clears things up. Peace!
 
afrocentricity said:
I've seen enough posters flee from threads where they've been shown up to think that a lot will just vanish mate, who knows tho. Either way every time I hear/see someone moan about such and such 'playing the race card' with a hint of 'how dare they?' a little piece of my optimism dies.
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Maybe some yeah. Thankfully I feel like the caf is generally a decent lot though.
 
afrocentricity said:
Did I say otherwise? In that same post you quoted I pointed out that I'm aware of it and it still doesn't influence how I read this situation. In summary my post was saying that I'll wait and see. While pointing out that a lot of people have made their minds up already, and are waiting for someone our something to change it, or maybe never will...

Feck is rassism anyway? Prejudiced against Rastafarians?

Hope that clears things up. Peace!
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It is human nature to allow a persons past actions to influence how you perceive them in the presence. If someone is a pathological liar, do you look at all their statements with the innocence of a child? Some people play a game, Yaya appears one of them and so people are reluctant to play along.
 
If racism was involved and Touré was a victim of it, why did he wait to not be contractually linked to Man City to mention it ? We're talking about a truly serious accusation so why not bring it up when he was there ?
 
Stacks said:
The "fraudulent racist" part.
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People tend to see what they want to see. This thread is indicative of that notion I'm afraid.

Referring to Pep as a "fraudulent racist" will be perfectly justified should Yaya deliver on his promise to provide sufficient evidence supporting his claim. However in the event of the opposite occurring, Pep will be free and clear to go about his business of being showered with endless love, praise and admiration, whilst Yaya will remain under permanent ridicule. As you were, then.
 
M18CTID said:
To be fair, it should be up to Yaya to provide the evidence that Guardiola is a racist. If he can do that then I'm sure there would be a shift in views because when you read Yaya's comments coupled with those of his dickhead agent, this has all the hallmarks of yet another shit show cooked up by the two of them. That's why so many on here are doubting him - not because they're apologists for racism.

Like I say, let him provide the evidence to back up his claims. That's what happened in the Suarez/Evra case - funnily enough, even when it was proven beyond doubt that Suarez had used a racial slur against Evra plenty of your fellow Liverpool fans refused to accept it.
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Of course. And I'm not saying Toure's a saint or anything like that, but it just seems to me that most in here brush it off as 'Yaya being Yaya'. I don't think Guardiola is a racist, btw. But for the sake of all the people suffering from racism though, I just think the proper response would be to wait and see what comes out instead of just assuming Toure is making it up because he's a bit of a twat.

Don't see what me being a Liverpool fan has to do with this, but if you insist, that whole Suarez affair was a disaster.

Pete Dahh Sneak said:
Or is it because the burden of proof is on someone who wanted to leave the club “they care so much about” because of a birthday? Let’s also forget he bought Keita, Benatia, and has been trying to sign Mahrez for months.
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Let's just wait and see, no?

Josep Dowling said:
If it was any other player I think his comments would be taken more seriously. But because it's Yaya Toure I think most are just assuming it's sour grapes which is based on:

1) His previous behavior - birthday cake scenario and his comments regarding Aubameyang win AFOTY

2) Pep has just got rid of him from the squad. He is 35 years old, earning over £200k a week, whilst not even playing.

3) He himself has provided no evidence other than labeling Pep a racist. His basis is that Pep didn't like him so he must be a racist. There may be a whole host of reasons why Pep doesn't like Yaya as a footballer or person. And there probably is something because he has moved him on twice now. Is that down to his racist views? Well I will leave that up for others to debate.
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As I said above, I don’t consider Toure a saint at all, but to prevent other victims of racial abuse from not speaking out, I think it’s important not to call a man a liar before you know all the facts.

Zelex said:
As a Black British male, I saw my Dad go through this. The aggro just isn't worth it.... however I am hoping in Toure's case it's more to due with his past shenanigans being the reason why people are calling him out on his claim. All I know is from my experiences, I must stress it takes a lot for a ethnic minority to shout "racism". Most would prefer to keep their head down and keep it moving. I do think in this case Yaya probably feels with good reason that he is being treated differently because he is African but I doubt this was Guardiola's intention in anyway (if he did) although it is very difficult to discern the truth in these type of situations. Regardless, he deserves to heard maybe he could have handled it a little gentler I guess.
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I know why people call him out, but your experience is exactly why they shouldn’t until they know more than what they do now.
I’m as pale as they come, but a lot of my students are coloured and they say the same as you. If they read through this thread they would find it even harder to speak up.
 
kouroux said:
If racism was involved and Touré was a victim of it, why did he wait to not be contractually linked to Man City to mention it ? We're talking about a truly serious accusation so why not bring it up when he was there ?
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Because no one is going to believe him and he would suffer the consequences with Pep as his manager. Not that I am saying it did happen, but it easy to understand why someone wouldnt say anything without categoric proof whilst the person was their boss
 
Cassidy said:
I disagree he has the label. Actually its Yaya who is coming out worst from this.

I’ll ask a question if there is no proof is it fair someone suffering abuse should be quiet?

I agree with you about society but that something that needs fixing instead of forcing the victims to keep quiet until the have proof
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Cassidy said:
But isnt that what I said. Action or consequences shouldnt come without proof. But people should most certainly speak out as it happens and not wait for proof
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I’m not quite sure what you are saying here. If Pep had said something to Yaya which was racist/discriminatory then of course he should speak out - his recollection of events would be sufficient - he doesn’t need a tape recording. However, from what’s been released so far, he seems to be saying Pep is too clever to have done anything he can actually say is racist, so he can’t point to any racist behaviour. His entire position seems to be based on a position that Pep must be racist as he wasn’t picking Yaya. Does anyone, other than Yaya and his agent, genuinely believe that there is no other explanation for Pep not picking him? Couple that with the fact we know Pep can be a bit of a prat towards players he wants rid of (African or otherwise) and it doesn’t feel as though there is much basis for Yaya’s damaging accusations.

In addition, if he genuinely felt Pep had behaved in a discriminatory way towards him, I would have expected him to have used the club’s grievance procedure whilst he was still there. That would be the correct way to deal with the situation and bring a ET claim if necessary. There is no current suggestion that he did so. Instead, he’s waited until after he left the club and then stained Guardiola’s name.

My strong feeling from what we’ve heard so far (and what we know about Toure’s prior behaviour) is that it’s more likely than not that he’s going to have nothing to back up his statements. If that’s the case, then that can only be harmful to those who do have genuine grounds to complain and I hope he’s dealt with accordingly.
 
Doracle said:
I’m not quite sure what you are saying here. If Pep had said something to Yaya which was racist/discriminatory then of course he should speak out - his recollection of events would be sufficient - he doesn’t need a tape recording. However, from what’s been released so far, he seems to be saying Pep is too clever to have done anything he can actually say is racist, so he can’t point to any racist behaviour. His entire position seems to be based on a position that Pep must be racist as he wasn’t picking Yaya. Does anyone, other than Yaya and his agent, genuinely believe that there is no other explanation for Pep not picking him? Couple that with the fact we know Pep can be a bit of a prat towards players he wants rid of (African or otherwise) and it doesn’t feel as though there is much basis for Yaya’s damaging accusations.

In addition, if he genuinely felt Pep had behaved in a discriminatory way towards him, I would have expected him to have used the club’s grievance procedure whilst he was still there. That would be the correct way to deal with the situation and bring a ET claim if necessary. There is no current suggestion that he did so. Instead, he’s waited until after he left the club and then stained Guardiola’s name.

My strong feeling from what we’ve heard so far (and what we know about Toure’s prior behaviour) is that it’s more likely than not that he’s going to have nothing to back up his statements. If that’s the case, then that can only be harmful to those who do have genuine grounds to complain and I hope he’s dealt with accordingly.
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His record pf events wouldnt be sufficient in todays world.
 
Ramshock said:
I find it hard to believe. Being Catalonian I think it wouldnt be in his nature to be discriminate against anyone but ya never know.
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Agreed but would Yaya really come out with this if he wasn't sure? He literally is trying to see Pep off. Some very damning comments. I find it hard to believe though. A misunderstanding perhaps?
 
Cassidy said:
Because no one is going to believe him and he would suffer the consequences with Pep as his manager. Not that I am saying it did happen, but it easy to understand why someone wouldnt say anything without categoric proof whilst the person was their boss
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So his personal gain(not be ostracized by the club) would be potentially more important than denouncing it ? What makes us think that leaving the club would give him more credibility all of a sudden ?
 
Rob said:
Of course. And I'm not saying Toure's a saint or anything like that, but it just seems to me that most in here brush it off as 'Yaya being Yaya'. I don't think Guardiola is a racist, btw. But for the sake of all the people suffering from racism though, I just think the proper response would be to wait and see what comes out instead of just assuming Toure is making it up because he's a bit of a twat.
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While in general I agree with your sentiment, at the end of the day this is just a football forum and we aren't going to be the judge, jury and executioner in the matter. We're just a bunch of people on the internet spewing opinions. At the minute all people have to go on are some vague claims by someone who has a history of being a bit of an idiot and drama queen when things don't go his way who's been ushered out the door by a manager that didn't want him.

I think it would be incredibly sad if people were put off standing up for themselves and calling out this sort of thing because some strangers on the internet didn't take the word of someone known for being a bit of a shitehawk as gospel simply because he claimed racism. Yaya has no one to blame but himself that people require a greater burden of proof from him. The same boat Sol Campbell has put himself in.

This forum in the past has been supportive of people standing up for themselves and outing this kind of thing. Yaya though, instead of going through any sort of proper channels while still at City or since leaving has gone to a newspaper to fling dirt and basically advertise for a new contract. He's put it out there in his usual dramatic fashion to be commented on and judged as the words of a man with previous for saying mad shit. The reaction to this isn't the norm for people outing racism, it's the norm for Yaya Toure making claims he hasn't backed up.
 
kouroux said:
So his personal gain(not be ostracized by the club) would be potentially more important than denouncing it ? What makes us think that leaving the club would give him more credibility all of a sudden ?
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I dont think it gives him more credibility. I am saying anyone who is abused by their boss (as happens alot) usually do know their job is at risk if they come out without categoric proof. Thats not even something which needs debating.

As for Toure himself I dont know why he did that. Maybe for that reason or it could also be that he is looking to attack Pep for forcing him out.
 
Cassidy said:
I dont think it gives him more credibility. I am saying anyone who is abused by their boss (as happens alot) usually do know their job is at risk if they come out without categoric proof. Thats not even something which needs debating.

As for Toure himself I dont know why he did that. Maybe for that reason or it could also be that he is looking to attack Pep for forcing him out.
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Of course it doesn't in any other situation but I am talking about this one. Touré isn't a powerless average Joe. He doesn't even entertain that he was past it and no longer needed.
 
Typical caf trying to find a way to demonize Guardiola. Nobody else gives a shit what Yaya Toure says - he's a laughing stock ffs.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Is there a reason why you believe Catalan people don't have prejudice against black people / ethnic minorities? Genuine question.

I've read a fair bit that would suggest otherwise. Which isn't to say that Catalan folk are racist en masse, but to say that they're not a seems pretty huge leap.
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To say that they are is a even bigger leap but anyway I didnt say either way, I was arguing against the idea that just because someone identifies with a disputed region or territory it automatically makes them racist. I would be interested to know what you have read because it would fly against the goodwill they have enjoyed from the rest of the liberal world.
 
kouroux said:
Of course it doesn't in any other situation but I am talking about this one. Touré isn't a powerless average Joe. He doesn't even entertain that he was past it and no longer needed.
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He is a powerless average Joe in the context of the football world where as a player u can be racially abused in a football game and get sent off yourself for reacting.

Basically what I am saying is lets not act like football has shown it really is serious about tackling the issue
 
Is everyone going to ignore the other things he said about Pep.

The African player stuff has been used as the soundbite but he had some really damning things to say about Pep that had nothing to do with race.

Yaya comes across as painting Pep as a shit human being rather than a racist to me.
 
El Jefe said:
Is everyone going to ignore the other things he said about Pep.

The African player stuff has been used as the soundbite but he had some really damning things to say about Pep that had nothing to do with race.

Yaya comes across as painting Pep as a shit human being rather than a racist to me.
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Nothing that hant already been said tbh
 
Ramshock said:
To say that they are is a even bigger leap but anyway I didnt say either way, I was arguing against the idea that just because someone identifies with a disputed region or territory it automatically makes them racist. I would be interested to know what you have read because it would fly against the goodwill they have enjoyed from the rest of the liberal world.
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To be fair, you said...

Ramshock said:
I find it hard to believe. Being Catalonian I think it wouldnt be in his nature to be discriminate against anyone
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Which basically equates to you presuming that Catalan people are never discriminatory toward ethnic minorities. And I just wanted to know why, as a genuine question.

I've heard/read a lot of first hand accounts from people that've traveled to Catalan areas and experienced racism/xenophobia that surprised them.

That said, maybe they were just 'playing the race card', which, in your opinion is an easy thing to do...

Ramshock said:
the race card is easy to play unfortunately.
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Doracle said:
Does anyone, other than Yaya and his agent, genuinely believe that there is no other explanation for Pep not picking him?
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African shamans

Cassidy said:
Nothing that hant already been said tbh
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This, other players he has had beef with have said the exact same thing about Pep with regards to him once Pep has relegated you in his head to one of the enemy. This is the first anyone has heard of any racially based connotations behind Pep's agenda.
 
snk123 said:
Typical caf trying to find a way to demonize Guardiola. Nobody else gives a shit what Yaya Toure says - he's a laughing stock ffs.
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How is the caf trying to 'demonize' your precious Guardiola? This is a story doing the rounds obviously. Don't knock the messenger.
 
Loublaze said:
Bad examples as those countries are actually the richest in South America :lol:. South America as a whole is still a lot better off economically than Africa. Football in south America simply has more funding even at grassroots level.
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Ah jasus i thought they were poor
countries I'm still learning something new everyday.
 
So did any paper report his full interview or whatever is already reported by Guardian is the full version?
 
Eto, Ihenacho and now Toure have complained about how he treated them as human beings. We don’t know if he is racist... but if he is, most victims would be scared to come out because :

1. It is very hard to prove racism without video or Audio evidence.
2. Pep is in a position of power.

(Maybe now more will come out.So let’s not dismiss Yaya so quickly)
Just because he is plays beautiful football doesn’t mean he can’t be a racist cnut. He might be the Suarez or Terry of managers.
 
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