Doesn't have to be. If he hasn't got real evidence it goes under 'libel' (don't know if that is the right word in English) and in most Western societies if you end up on the court the burden of proof will be on the one who made the claims.
Yaya Touré: "I want to destroy the Pep myth" (France Football interview)
- Thread starter Guy Incognito
- Start date
Doesn't have to be. If he hasn't got real evidence it goes under 'libel' (don't know if that is the right word in English) and in most Western societies if you end up on the court the burden of proof will be on the one who made the claims.
Oh well, at least we don’t have to worry about that anymore.
Sign them African shamans up, Jose!
If you have to resort to Jack Wilshire and Jesse Lingard as shining examples of technical English players over the last 30 years then I think that proves the point...
I was pretty clear in the original comment it was nothing to do with race. Some places teach different things. Pep, a Spaniard, who spent his career in Spain, prefers skills more often found in Spanish players and South Americans. Shock horror.
You make some very valid points and I also will reserve judgement on this one until I see what has been said and in what context...
That said i think that what you speak about in your post is a large part of why i wish the issue of racism was more widely discussed. I think the issue and indeed fear of the "word" comes from it's is association with acts of hatred.
Racism has a very wide spectrum and the key in my opinion is where offence is taken, and intent. I have personally encountered racism from very close friends in it's mildest form where simply educating them on why what they have done/said was offensive to me has resolved the issue and improved our relationship going forward... All the way through to acts of hated against me because of the colour of my skin and individuals perception that because i'm black i'm inferior.
Your colleagues are right in the sense that we can find racism in almost anything but, in my opinion to suggest "a chip" generalises too much and belittles the validity of those with a genuine complaint, no matter how minor or indeed if the act or gesture was not intended to offend.
A good likeness is the Hollywood sex scandal where the "sexual assaults" alleged, range from inappropriate comments/gestures all the way through to rape. In some cases education on acceptable behaviour is the remedy where, in others it simply isn't appropriate and much sterner action is required. The key is that this scandal has encouraged discussion between people about the world in which we live and helped (is helping) to alter perceptions of what is right and wrong.
I don't know if Yaya is just being a clown, overly sensitive, has a genuine complaint or has just misinterpreted something but the wider subject of Racism is football is one which needs to be had in much greater detail and without the fear of persecution.
This "story" just reeks of Toure and his advisors wanting to make headlines because he needs a new club.
Pep has worked with players of all races, nationality etc.
I personally find it worrying that someone can be accused of such a thing with no evidence to back up the claims one bit.
Shameful that this "headline" is even causing people to talk about it
Pep has worked with players of all races, nationality etc.
I personally find it worrying that someone can be accused of such a thing with no evidence to back up the claims one bit.
Shameful that this "headline" is even causing people to talk about it
To be fair, it should be up to Yaya to provide the evidence that Guardiola is a racist. If he can do that then I'm sure there would be a shift in views because when you read Yaya's comments coupled with those of his dickhead agent, this has all the hallmarks of yet another shit show cooked up by the two of them. That's why so many on here are doubting him - not because they're apologists for racism.
Like I say, let him provide the evidence to back up his claims. That's what happened in the Suarez/Evra case - funnily enough, even when it was proven beyond doubt that Suarez had used a racial slur against Evra plenty of your fellow Liverpool fans refused to accept it.
Does this mean he cannot be a racist (or have made a racist comment)? Have you heard of Luis Aragones, had he not worked with black players before?
So he'll play for us for £1 a week?
http://www.goal.com/en/news/yaya-to...utd-for-1-a-week-in/l1rcu9w1v2181efung49l3zsh
http://www.goal.com/en/news/yaya-to...utd-for-1-a-week-in/l1rcu9w1v2181efung49l3zsh
Not even sure how accusing your ex manager of racism without proof would help him find a new club.
Or is it because the burden of proof is on someone who wanted to leave the club “they care so much about” because of a birthday? Let’s also forget he bought Keita, Benatia, and has been trying to sign Mahrez for months.
Be interesting to see what that bonus system is
3 cakes for a win, 1 for a draw.......
If it was any other player I think his comments would be taken more seriously. But because it's Yaya Toure I think most are just assuming it's sour grapes which is based on:
1) His previous behavior - birthday cake scenario and his comments regarding Aubameyang win AFOTY
2) Pep has just got rid of him from the squad. He is 35 years old, earning over £200k a week, whilst not even playing.
3) He himself has provided no evidence other than labeling Pep a racist. His basis is that Pep didn't like him so he must be a racist. There may be a whole host of reasons why Pep doesn't like Yaya as a footballer or person. And there probably is something because he has moved him on twice now. Is that down to his racist views? Well I will leave that up for others to debate.
I smell sour grapes here.
This bit takes the, well, cake:
“But when you realise that he has problems with Africans, wherever he goes, I ask myself questions. He will never admit it. But the day he will line up a team in which we find five Africans, not naturalised, I promise I will send him a cake.”
What's his point? Does Bayern, Spurs, United, Arsenal, PSG, Liverpool have five (or four, or three) Africans (not naturalised, of course)?
What the hell is this? Get over yourself Toure. A sick part of me wanted there to be something to this to undermine Pep (and City) but it's just Yaya being a clown.
This bit takes the, well, cake:
“But when you realise that he has problems with Africans, wherever he goes, I ask myself questions. He will never admit it. But the day he will line up a team in which we find five Africans, not naturalised, I promise I will send him a cake.”
What's his point? Does Bayern, Spurs, United, Arsenal, PSG, Liverpool have five (or four, or three) Africans (not naturalised, of course)?
What the hell is this? Get over yourself Toure. A sick part of me wanted there to be something to this to undermine Pep (and City) but it's just Yaya being a clown.
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Very good!
I'd take him for £1.00 a week just to hear his interviews about how he hates City
.Stick him in the canteen and just keep feeding him cakes every time he goes on a City/Pep hate speech.
Completely agree. Absolutely disgraceful tone throughout the whole thread.
Covert racism is rife within society itself, and football has been proven to be filled with historic racism. Thus, the type of racism within football right now, will fairly obviously be covert racism ("he's too clever to get caught" etc).
Has Yaya accused any other former managers of racism?
If he's wanting £1 a week my old sunday league team will have him in a instant.
In those days, the 3 foreigner rule and African nations cup stopped a lot of English teams from buying them.
Because Giggs would have told them to call him a Scottish bastard.
Not signing African players based on the fact they have to go the AFCON every other year is actually a form of workplace discrimination that shouldn't be allowed IMO.
You can't really use that as an excuse not to sign a good African player, but its really hard to prove.
You can't really use that as an excuse not to sign a good African player, but its really hard to prove.
It's not discrimination, its just smart thinking about players availability.
I'm not sure that I'd touch Yaya with a 10 foot pole in his current state but I get it. Some people hate me and treat me different because I'm RED.
He wasn't happy that a player born in Europe won it. I say fair fecks to Auba for representing a side that has never qualified for a World Cup when he could have played for two sides capable of winning it (France & Spain)!
No, he accused the entire african continent of prejudice against Africa though. Perfectly reasonable human being is Yaya.
I mean it’s one of those things I think will be incredibly difficult to discern the truth of, hope it’s not true though. I’d rather Yaya was just a little overly sensitive than know Pep was a racist but so powerful no one had called him out on it.
As a Black British male, I saw my Dad go through this. The aggro just isn't worth it.... however I am hoping in Toure's case it's more to due with his past shenanigans being the reason why people are calling him out on his claim. All I know is from my experiences, I must stress it takes a lot for a ethnic minority to shout "racism". Most would prefer to keep their head down and keep it moving. I do think in this case Yaya probably feels with good reason that he is being treated differently because he is African but I doubt this was Guardiola's intention in anyway (if he did) although it is very difficult to discern the truth in these type of situations. Regardless, he deserves to heard maybe he could have handled it a little gentler I guess.
I agree. It’s not about not taking racism seriously but about not taking statements without any proof as the truth. If he adds something to his statements it might be different but he accused Africa of prejudice for thinking that the half-white European Aubameyang was a better player one year.
I don’t think the current emphasis on automatically believing an alleged victim is the right way of looking at things, even if it’s an understandable reaction to victims not being believed at all. That doesn’t mean that accusations shouldn’t be taken seriously.
What gets me thinking he’s just after publicity is the fact that, if he really felt discriminated against, why didn’t he get the PFA involved or just leave? Perhaps his reported £250k pwm salary had something to do with it.
I want to destroy the Pep myth...
...But first we enjoy some birthday cake!
...But first we enjoy some birthday cake!
Where is the good stuff? Come on, destroy the Pep Guardiola is my idol's myth already son.
Yes, zero tolerance for racism. But exactly because racism is disgusting and awful thing to call someone racist without any fact is something which must be punished also. Yaya said it and now that claim will always be with peps name. If i am pep, i would take some legal action here.
And yes, i am here on peps side. First time in history. Sane, delph, jesus, fernandinho are his players also and they play. Yaya has history being a total prick so i think this is not true
I agree in some instances, fair enough.
However where is the ignorance in this case though? what shred of evidence has Toure shown other than sour grapes about playing time, sour grapes about cake and sour grapes about African player of the year? the man is a walking walking bottle of wine. And people do speak out about racism in football. The reality is that nowadays it rarely influences team selections so Toure's claims are very weird.
He's in the news now isn't he.
All done to cause a stir of some sort.
It'll all be forgotten next week
From the quotes I've read for me it's not about evidence (which would be almost impossible to provide in most cases anyway), it's about the lack of coherent reasoning as to why he thinks Guardiola is a racist. It's like he's accusing someone so publicly because of a hunch he's had which might or might not be true. He probably genuinely believes that Guardiola was jealous of him, and he couldn't think of a non-cynical reason as to why Guardiola didn't play him and didn't want to engage with him. He might be right, we don't know, but you just can't tell that he has a good base to think so from his story (so far).
Also btw unrelated to the article but not all forms of discrimination and marginalisation should be called racism.
Also btw unrelated to the article but not all forms of discrimination and marginalisation should be called racism.
Shamans ......
Seluk needs to realise he's not living in Westeros.
Where is the juicy details from Toure? It's been a day, time to spill the beans.
Seluk needs to realise he's not living in Westeros.
Where is the juicy details from Toure? It's been a day, time to spill the beans.
He's more likely to add to this own reputation of being a spoilt brat than he has of destroying any myth re pep.
So arbitrary too. Why five? What makes that the official ‘not a racist’ point? Why not four? Or six? And why only non-naturalised? If he was racist against Africans then surely it’d be against all of them?
This post is wrong.
I'm sorry but it's hard to take accusations like that from someone like Yaya if you know his real character and how truly egocentric he is. He is the kinda who will look for any possible excuse before considering that the wrong party could also be him. What is he not considering that it was possible that he was completely past it ? Why does the color of his skin could be the only reason for him not playing and not him being past it ?