That maybe influenced my opinion...but still you can see a player pretty quickly
27
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Hit the lottery with the loan to United, but just not good enough. In retrospect I wish we had stumped the cash for the loan for Felix.
Felix wasn't what we needed either.
Probably not, but he'd be significantly better than weghorst as he can actually play football
If he was wearing a curly wig I’d wonder why Fellaini was back and playing worse than ever before.
I was not a fan at all and wanted him gone but at least from time to time he could head the flipping ball into the net!
I noticed some of the enthusiasm is gone from him. Before he was going mental when goals went in. Didn't seem arsed when Dalot scored.
I think he was really happy to be a starter, maybe the idea of making the move permanent was in his head. But as things went down it's obvious this won't happen so his enthusiasm has clearly declined.
I actually think instead of bringing him on for Martial with about 30 minutes left, we would be better of going false nine with maybe Sancho? Because the ball doesnt stick to WW. I did however see him win a header and actually jumped for it which was ... a positive?
I'm glad someone's made this point - his run makes all the space for Dalot.
It happens a lot and I don’t blame them in those situations. Even the Dalot goal, Weghorst made a good run and if that is anyone else Antony slips them in but you can see players don’t have confidence that slipping Weghorst in will end in anything other than a turnover or a slide tackle shot that either gets blocked or fails to threaten the target.
And to think that this man almost ended Messi’s World Cup run, singlehandedly
Ah, he's pulling a Rangnick
It's also why he was a bit upset imo, he wanted the pass. It was a good contribution but his reaction make me wonder if it was intentional.
He's better looking, but I think they're similar, no?
Anyhow, I think he was thrown on not just to manage Martial's minutes but to provide an aerial presence at the back during set pieces.
I seen every game all 3 played, all were better. Sanchez at had a few performances where he still looked a good player. And the other 2 at least looked somewhat competent at the basics of controlling, passing and striking a ball.
I have no doubt Wout is a better player than he has shown during his time at United but he's been largely abysmal here.
I think Elanga would probably be worse, but I could see Sabitzer being the backup striker for the rest of the season.
Rashford-Martial-Antony
Eriksen-Casemiro-Bruno
is the front 6, and then I don't think anyone has really stepped up enough to be the clear backup at any spot, so you've got Sancho, Sabitzer, Fred and Garnacho as the group from whom hopefully 1 attacker and 1 midfielder can be relied on. So Sabitzer being the backup striker might come down to if Fred plays well enough to free up Sabitzer to rotate with Martial up top. But Sabitzer was set to start in midfield today, so it's probably Garnacho or Sancho at LW and Rashford being the backup #9 when he's back.
He doesn’t seem happy being on the bench I thought the exact same thing
Made a few dodgy fouls lately as well
I mean come on he must know that a squad player in a top 4 team is punching above his weight…his club are in the Championship he’s just been playing in Turkey ffs
Fellaini was a handful for defenders and could actually affect the outcome of games especially playing up top and lobbing balls to him as a last resort.
Weghorst is practically invisible, even opposition defenders don’t really feel his presence despite his size.
Fellaini was a much better player.
And that's the type of contribution that won't show up in the form of any stat. It's the kind of impact we can actually count on from him as a substitute. Hopefully Martial stays healthy rest of the way and it's all we need of him.
I don't want to sound harsh because Weghorst made the right run for his role, but the way you guys word it to give Weghorst the credit is always coming off weird.
When people say a player doesn't do X, Y, Z, it has some element of exaggeration than literal meaning. For example, Smalling is bad passer. It doesn't mean he gave the ball away every time he touched it, nor he never made some surprising good passes. In reality, in term of completion stats, Smalling more often than not has very high pass completion. Rarely pass to opposition. The issue is he often making simple pass to his teammate in not good position, where he has the option to make a more adventurous pass that progress the play better for his team.
Back to Weghorst, he made the right run that you expect from professional no 9 in that situation. He contributed but not that you can't replace this kind of contribution with someone else in his position. And his contribution here is not really make or break the move for Dalot goal. Nottingham Forest not exactly tracked Weghorst the way Faes stupidly did in our game vs Leicester (Sancho goal): breaking the offside line, their CB invade other players defensive zone while leaving his. They shifted reasonably naturally to maintain the defense shape, for the LCB to block Antony potential shot/ slide a pass to Weghors; RCB to block Antony potential shot regardless of our CF positioning. (Context: Forest played a back 5, but their LCB was pulled into midfield during this move, so the leftover CBs had to improvise into normal 2 CB partnership). Their midfielder was getting back to fill in the space/ gap with the RB (are we gonna praise for Sancho to keep wide and occupy the RB)?
Dalot ability to spot the chance to step on the gas, and Antony's composure and skill to skip past the LCB, and pull the right pass past the RCB is still the most important thing of the move. Because ther CBs and midfield did the right thing tactically. Bad touch, bad pass or a split second late decision to start the run, from both Antony and Dalot could have easily ruin this move.
Making it big about Weghorst run is like giving Smalling credit for a simple key pass everyone do, but on occasion the assister has to make a defense split pass and goal scorer has to work brilliantly to lose his marker, show great composure and a nice finish to boot.
Perhaps in other games when we have McTominay, and had more comfortable lead? Not this game though, where we still need to keep same formation, while taking Martial off the pitch. Weghorst is seen as somewhat useful in defending set piece. Else we're left with a hipster team of midget, no width up top after Martial left the pitch, which is risky.
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And trap it beautifully with his chest. Fellaini was a much better player than Weghorst
Watching us play without him lately, yes I concede that we are far better when he isn't playing @jm99
Too many missed chances and terrible performances overall have sapped his positivity. The reality of playing for a big club with huge expectation has eaten at him
The press has also turned on him. I’m sure he’s aware of social media abuse but that’s easy to dismiss when the team is winning and most pundits aren’t on his back. The question he received after the last Holland international and even in EtH presser probably knocked his confidence a lot.
It’s one thing knowing you are shit, another having the whole world talking about it.
Wait, what was said?
About the recent international break:
https://metro.co.uk/2023/03/28/ruud...d-enough-to-stay-under-erik-ten-hag-18518751/
I am not sure about the ETH press conference the other poster mentioned.
He is the same as Maguire. Tries his best but plays a few levels above his actual abilities. He is not a good footballer. The difference between Martial and him is ridiculous.
The revisionism with regard to him is problematic. The player he is now wasn't the player he came here performing as. Neither were of the required standard, but the initial run, he served multiple purposes and did aid the team and teammates.
Once he hit his physical limit, combined with what sounds like a career slump, he tumbled into the hindrance category, but coining him as that from the outset through this current lens is nonsense.
That version of Weghorst would be utilised still; his appearances were always going to drop to see-out-the-game-minutes once Martial returned, but that'd still have aided the team.
As he currently is, there's little reason for him to feature (outside of keeping him match fresh and available) and his minutes should be going to others in the squad or the promotion of one of our own products.
Can't say I feel sorry for him as he's lived a dream players of his standard [should] never get a chance to experience, and what he was initially doing was unsustainable, as suspected, but he shouldn't let his head drop so easily - he believed he was playing for a contract here, and as delusional as that might seem, he should at least have the courage of his convictions and give it what he has until the games run out.
He looks like he's giving up and that's not the mentality you can have at a big club, especially when you have way less talent than your peers. Needs to dust himself off and try and get back to his own bar, which he's currently miles off.
Once he hit his physical limit, combined with what sounds like a career slump, he tumbled into the hindrance category, but coining him as that from the outset through this current lens is nonsense.
That version of Weghorst would be utilised still; his appearances were always going to drop to see-out-the-game-minutes once Martial returned, but that'd still have aided the team.
As he currently is, there's little reason for him to feature (outside of keeping him match fresh and available) and his minutes should be going to others in the squad or the promotion of one of our own products.
Can't say I feel sorry for him as he's lived a dream players of his standard [should] never get a chance to experience, and what he was initially doing was unsustainable, as suspected, but he shouldn't let his head drop so easily - he believed he was playing for a contract here, and as delusional as that might seem, he should at least have the courage of his convictions and give it what he has until the games run out.
He looks like he's giving up and that's not the mentality you can have at a big club, especially when you have way less talent than your peers. Needs to dust himself off and try and get back to his own bar, which he's currently miles off.
I agree. It's gone pear-shaped recently, but he was available when we really needed someone to step in and do a job, something which he did for the most part during his first few months here.
Not in the long term, but in the short term he would have been a vast improvement over Wout both as a creator and scorer.
Agree with this to some extent. If we list the things he was probably tasked with achieving, in order of priority:
1. Defend from the front with intelligent pressing and high work rate.
2. Provide a target man for longer balls forward.
3. Hold up the ball to create chances for other forwards.
4. Add aerial threat from set pieces.
5. Score easy chances and tap-ins.
(Notably not being asked to:
A. Score a significant number of goals.
B. Score 'individual' goals.
C. Engage in intricate link-up or provide creative assists.)
That's just off the top of my head, and could I'm sure be debated, but I think it clearly captures ETG's general expectations.
For his first month or so, I think you can argue he did a decent job of 1 and 2 and was possibly unlucky not to get a couple of goals to fulfil 4. However I think even from the start he has clearly failed to achieve 3 or 5. He has never seemed capable of holding up the ball, and generally conceded possession easily. And he has missed some really unforgivable chances that any player on the pitch for United would be expected to score, let alone a striker.
In the last month or so, I think he is basically failing across the board. He still works hard defensively but doesn't actually seem capable of winning the ball back or pressing effectively. He doesn't receive the ball well as a target man, and he still can't retain it when holding up. He's not looking like an aerial threat. He's not scoring easy chances.
To his credit, he remains a consummate professional and clearly positive presence in the dressing room, which many players would not be in his situation and in such poor form. But he's not achieving even his original fairly narrow brief, and I'd imagine either Sabitzer or McTominay is capable of doing that job better given the chance. So I'm not sure he deserves another minute on the pitch.
This is all well written, very fair and I agree with it.
He probably was doing the bare minimum of okay for the first few weeks you're right. In the cup final against Newcastle I'd even say he was pretty good, genuinely good. Got an assist for the Rashford goal and almost scored a screamer himself.
About the consummate professional thing I've just started to notice some petulance creeping into his game. He's looked different the last 2 or 3 times he's come on as a sub as opposed to the first few games when you could tell he was just delighted to be here. Got into a few spats against Sevilla and Forest and the Dalot goal yesterday he seemed more annoyed Antony ignored his run than happy we'd scored. One to keep an eye on maybe.
Whether that's his frustration over his poor form, being benched, or being told it won't be a permanent deal I don't know.
Maybe not, but it's like comparing a Porsche with a Prius. And people desperately trying to justify how the Prius was more economically viable.
1. Yeah he did that
2. Absolutely did not. Martial is a far better target man and he isn't even that great in the air either. Weghorst is terrible in the air.
3. Created a couple of chances that people lavished over, but largely was poor holding up the ball as he doesn't have any sort of technical quality to keep in under pressure. His only hope was first time layoffs.
4. Absolutely did not. Again terrible in the air. I'd fancy Dalot to win a header over Weghorst.
5. Speaks for itself.
Cheers. I can imagine it's not doing his confidence any good.
He's going to score in the FA Cup final and in the Europa league final and will have a cult status. Despite being a very limited player.
Very disappointed in his attitude (something people used to praise) - even if he's been told he's not sufficient for united (he isn't by a million miles) there are still other clubs he could hope are attracted to him. Aren't Burnley back in the PL next term - why not work hard to show you're still a useful asset to them and can help them in the PL.
Yeah this kind of outlining is on point; there’s a scaling and fair assessment of the briefs he had to fulfil. No doubt, from the very beginning he failed at being an actual goalscorer, but as you’ve said, from a checklist POV, the player he initially performed as met some of what he was tasked to do and aided the team.
For sure he’s been a liability as his form plummeted, but there’s no need for revisionism and the denying him his due for some of the things he was doing.
Sevilla 3:0 Man Utd
He's so, so bad. Martial was poor but when he came on for Martial that was game over, we weren't scoring with Rashford not fit. Toothless.
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