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I'm convinced Weghorst will start tonight, Martial isn't fully up to speed yet so ETH won't want to rush the lad in.
Good post.
It's not the shielding from criticism that riles me. I can understand the reasons why players will be publicly shielded from criticism, loanees much more so. The real issue is that Wout has remained an automatic starter, ahead of more talented players, even as his influence on games waned and his presence became detrimental to the performances of the team. If the majority of fans (judging by this thread) are thinking "what the feck is this?" it's easy to imagine what the players themselves are thinking behind the scenes. It's hard to convince fans and players there's meritocracy and method in the madness when some players get immediately benched for playing badly, while others are not only protected but accommodated for and even played out of position ahead of much better players for those positions.
No one would care if he protected Wout from criticism so long as he used him sparingly, like he has done with Sabitzer for example.
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Excellent summary of the additional on-going off pitch problems that result from a manager having his clear favourites without logic or what the eyes are seeing justifying such favouritism.
The fact that he is so clearly out of form/just about adequate when in top form alone would have me sitting uncomfortably on the bench on match day if I was Elanga or Pellestri.
Ole had a similar issue with his ‘favourites’ - but they were multi-million pound signings playing on reputation. Weghorst’s reputation prior to arrival was 2 goals in 20 starts for Burnley at PL level. His level is 2/20 At PL level full stop.
if he plays as many games as looks likely in the run in we will run the very real risk of finishing outside the top 4. That will be on Ten Hag.
I love ETH however if he continues to pick a player who has 1 assist in 620 minutes of PL football, it will cost him credit with and when we have new owners incoming.
He’s safe only if he gets CL football with either SJ or SJR and if the Qataris buy the club, he will not have nearly as much say in who the club can and can’t buy, there is no way SJ, if he’s as he says a true united fan, then you can be sure he would not want Weghorst anywhere near the Squad next season.
ETH is telling the player he has his support and could get a permanent transfer because he needs him to perform now and to the end of the season, tonight would be a good time to open his PL account after coming on from the bench.
He’s safe only if he gets CL football with either SJ or SJR and if the Qataris buy the club, he will not have nearly as much say in who the club can and can’t buy, there is no way SJ, if he’s as he says a true united fan, then you can be sure he would not want Weghorst anywhere near the Squad next season.
ETH is telling the player he has his support and could get a permanent transfer because he needs him to perform now and to the end of the season, tonight would be a good time to open his PL account after coming on from the bench.
If he starts tonight, I'll be worried with ETH.
He's probably the most substituted player of the season.
He's probably the most substituted player of the season.
I sorely hope I don't have to see his name, at the very least not in the starting line up, but ideally at all, tonight
Watch him finally be dropped, then Martial get injured in the warm up
I'll be another who will start having some questions about ETH if he starts, as he's a handicap at this point
Watch him finally be dropped, then Martial get injured in the warm up
I'll be another who will start having some questions about ETH if he starts, as he's a handicap at this point
Park was exactly the type of player you want a few of in your squad (not all in the same position obviously). Someone who is not quite good enough to be in the strongest 11 of a truly top team, but who is good enough to slot in regularly as needed because of either resting one of the starters or because his skillset was needed against some opponents. Pretty much the perfect squad player. You're talking about him like he was mid-table quality or worse which he certainly wasn't. He regularly dominated Arsenal in particular and would have been a starter in the majority of teams in the league.
Ever since him we've had a number of other players that people hope will be 'the new Park' but they always end up only having the workrate (and normally not even close to as good in that aspect) but without the ability.
Would expect him to start.
Hoping this is just shielding the player and not what Ten Hag actually thinks. Trouble otherwise.
I hope he doesn't start.
His lack of scoring ability is one thing on it's own, but I really am noticing that this is also effecting other players choice making. An obvious pass is on, but its like the players don't want to pass to him, perhaps knowing he would be unlikely to score if they did. They try too hard to find another option, it slows up play and ends up costing us possession trying for that much harder pass.
His lack of scoring ability is one thing on it's own, but I really am noticing that this is also effecting other players choice making. An obvious pass is on, but its like the players don't want to pass to him, perhaps knowing he would be unlikely to score if they did. They try too hard to find another option, it slows up play and ends up costing us possession trying for that much harder pass.
Similar to Heskey narrative for England
Him being benched was a blessing for us.
Can you imagine being the manager who failed because he kept playing Wout Weghorst?
Ten Hag was very close to being this man and hopefully, this game is an indication the madness has stopped.
Ten Hag was very close to being this man and hopefully, this game is an indication the madness has stopped.
Yep if he persisted with Weghorst, the team would have been found out eventually as it is, we still have a lot of work to do, United need 6 more wins from 10 games to be sure of top 4
Ten Hag must be breathing a sigh of relief...
Fecking hell mate, you were clearly referring to Weghorst.
Would be a random, oddly specific and very coincidental claim to make in isolation given the context of our conversation up to that point.
Also how exactly do you know whether or not Sancho is following the managers instructions. Has ETH said this publicly? Are you a member of the coaching staff? Or are you just talking shit?
Ffs
Maybe if other players were fit, Ten Hag wouldn't feel the need to play Weghorst so much .. finally have others fit and he's benched.
Ffs
Maybe if other players were fit, Ten Hag wouldn't feel the need to play Weghorst so much .. finally have others fit and he's benched.
Seriously, every PL match that Weghorst has started, there was an obvious alternative selection making use of a player on the bench, typically Garnacho or Sancho on the left, Rashford centrally.
Palace away (Garnacho)
Arsenal away (Garnacho)
Palace home (Garnacho)
Leeds home (Sancho - a bit optimistic as probably not fit enough to start)
Leeds away (Garnacho)
Leicester home (Sancho)
Liverpool away (Garnacho)
Southampton home (Garnacho)
Newcastle away (Sancho)
You could claim that Garnacho has been more productive as a sub but even as a starter, he offers far more penetration than Weghorst. It just happens that the Wolves keeper made a very good save and a Leeds player cleared off the line, otherwise Garnacho would be viewed as a reasonable starting option.
If you look at Rashford's shot map for this season, the vast majority of his goals have been from directly in front of the posts. Even when operating on the left, he has been playing as if he was a central striker - see his abysmal defensive work-rate out of possession.
The whole Weghorst experiment has been utterly bizarre.
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Ten hag has often said he likes having an impact sub on the bench to be able to come in and change the game. Garnacho is literally 18, you can't expect a manager to start an 18 year old every game. Rashford is better from the left.
I agree that Ten Hag has used Weghorst too much, but it isn't unreasonable as to why he used him so much. Garnacho is 18 and is now injured. He was a good impact sub, and was used very well by Ten Hag. If you're trying to claim he has been under-used then you're just plain wrong... Sancho was absent/injured. When he's been fit, he has been underwhelming to say the least. I feel he should play more, but also, not like he lights it up when he is there. Basically.... we've had at best 1 option off the bench for the front 4 positions who could've started ahead of Weghorst. That's it. That's why he's played so much. He's been picked by default because he's been fit, and he's worked hard and provided some hold up play.
We've played 20 games since Weghorst came. We have 13 wins, 4 draws, 3 losses from that period in all competitions, including a cup win, and progress through the other 2 cups, while scoring 2 goals per game. Yeah, we'd all rather not see Weghorst out there, but it hasn't exactly failed that badly considering we've been pretty successful since he's joined.
Surely that's the end of the experiment now. We're a much better team without him.
Very good post
Fecking hell mate, you were clearly referring to Weghorst.
Would be a random, oddly specific and very coincidental claim to make in isolation given the context of our conversation up to that point.
Also how exactly do you know whether or not Sancho is following the managers instructions. Has ETH said this publicly? Are you a member of the coaching staff? Or are you just talking shit?
By watching football and seeing him not track back consistently, or press consistently, and regularly not being selected once this happens
I hope ETH has now seen the light. We were like a different team and that was without the first choice midfield. We have enough attacking options not to need him stinking the place out. Play Rashford or Martial as striker and then we still have multiple choices for the wide spots.
So talking shit then.
Indeed, I guess ETH keep dropping him for no reason other than he loves Weghorst right, even though it happened before Weghorst was even here...
Been plenty of games where Rashford and/or Antony don't track back and yet both generally start when fit so there goes that theory. Of course one being our best player and top scorer this season and the other being Ten Hag's marquee signing with them having history together at Ajax. And both playing the same positions Sancho does, more likely explains Sancho not getting a consistent run of games than alternative theories.
Anyway if you're determined to discuss Sancho take it to his performance thread mate, this one's for Weghorst.
This isn't actually true, at least not for more than 1 game or even half in succession, especially not Antony. Sanchos energy (aside from his form) is one of the main reasons why he's been dropped. Which came to a head vs Chelsea earlier in the season.
The odd game with less energy yes for others, with him it was consistent which ended up to his dropping.
Key issue for ETH for all the players was the energy and commitment in duels and the press
Anyway this is the Weghosrt thread so I'm going to stop this conversation on Sancho here
Well fair enough we'll disagree then mate.
Was great to see him not play last night.
Everyone plays better without him it's so obvious.
I wouldn't even start him v Brighton in the semi final. He's not needed here.
Everyone plays better without him it's so obvious.
I wouldn't even start him v Brighton in the semi final. He's not needed here.
Man Utd 2:0 Everton
Not a single chance in the first half happens with him on the pitch. It's laughable that he played so much in the past few months, even with Martial out. There are literally numerous combinations that are better than starting him up front, even with Martial out.
Will probably go back to starting now that Rashford is out. 
I'll be very surprised. Think with martial back, we can just replace rashford with martial up topWill probably go back to starting now that Rashford is out.
No way Martial stays fit the rest of the season. Even if he somehow does, he will have to be managed with extreme care, so he will still most likely play less than Weghorst. And every game matters now.
And we look so much better without Weghorst...
In terms of starting, I reckon martial starts and we go similar to today. Then we bring off martial and maybe push Bruno outwide and load the midfield.
.I'll be surprised if ww takes Rashfords place
I'm past him now. He's a body that can occupy one position, and that's it. We need more. Would rather try a youth player if we have one that's ready.
Dont mind him starting both sevilla games and Forest as Martial gets more game time. But cant have WW starting Brighton or other away league games.
I still don't know how he fails so many times winning what looks like easy headers for someone his size.
There was one in the 85th minute which was so easy but he managed to bump into the other defender and forget about the ball completely.
There was one in the 85th minute which was so easy but he managed to bump into the other defender and forget about the ball completely.
Probably being so big is the problem. Clearly it’s taking far too long for his brain to send signals to the lower half of his body to position himself correctly and jump. Like a giraffe.
That was weird. Didnt even really jump did he? He looks like the classic big and tall target man but he isnt that at all.
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