Would you take Rangnick back (As a DOF and NOT a manager)?

TheRedHearted said:
Unfortunately Ragnick played the Game Of Thrones like Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell.

he was brutally honest and he thought his title would demand respect around him and also protect him.

The biggest mistake was speaking like a “consultant”/ DOF (whatever his original title was meant to be before manager) during manager press conferences. Instead of keeping it short and saying what he was trying to do with the first team that he had and what he wanted of the players it was all about what he’s going to happen the next transfer window.
Click to expand...

Honestly think this is a really good analogy. Someone who was parachuted into a horrendously toxic situation that tried to do their best and assumed that speaking the truth would confer some sort of moral protection despite it directly contrasting with the interests of extremely dumb, vain, and narcissistic individuals like Cersei Lannister and Cristiano Ronaldo
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Honestly think this is a really good analogy. Someone who was parachuted into a horrendously toxic situation that tried to do their best and assumed that speaking the truth would confer some sort of moral protection despite it directly contrasting with the interests of extremely dumb, vain, and narcissistic individuals like Cersei Lannister and Cristiano Ronaldo
Click to expand...

There's speaking truth to power and there's verbal diarrhea. Rangnick suffers from the latter. Even as a DOF such a guy can't build a coherent team around him without pissing off half the organization. As a manager it's a non-starter.

It doesn't matter how capable you are technically. Coaxing, cajoling people around you to make them buy into your vision is 90% of the job. No way he does that effectively. Especially so in a high pressure, high visibility role like United where every mistake is amplified and leaks are non-stop.
 
Teja said:
There's speaking truth to power and there's verbal diarrhea. Rangnick suffers from the latter. Even as a DOF such a guy can't build a coherent team around him without pissing off half the organization. As a manager it's a non-starter.

It doesn't matter how capable you are technically. Coaxing, cajoling people around you to make them buy into your vision is 90% of the job. No way he does that effectively. Especially so in a high pressure, high visibility role like United where every mistake is amplified and leaks are non-stop.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. His man management was fecking horrible. As an interim manager, you're supposed to do the opposite. Steady the ship. Improve morale. Instead he tried to sink it as soon as he saw that he wasn't capable of managing this group.

Way out of his depth. A few victories with austria DOES NOT gloss over that fact.
 
Yes. He said the truth which nobody wanted to hear and even now we’re still suffering from the fact that we still have loads of players who should have been gotten rid long ago.
 
Sure the plan was for him to stay - but ETH had other ideas.

Now we have Ineos who clearly have other targets
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Honestly think this is a really good analogy. Someone who was parachuted into a horrendously toxic situation that tried to do their best and assumed that speaking the truth would confer some sort of moral protection despite it directly contrasting with the interests of extremely dumb, vain, and narcissistic individuals like Cersei Lannister and Cristiano Ronaldo
Click to expand...

Yeah. Can’t believe I didn’t think of it then. It’s quite the shame and a less prouder man would have been more pragmatic and a politician with the press. He woulda ripped out the older players and we coulda had youngsters with the press


Sir Erik ten Hag said:
You're just confirming my post.
Click to expand...
Well, to be technical you were confirming my post but used some language that didn’t make much sense. Got it now though. Normally when someone starts with “then” it’s a contradiction.
 
elmo said:
Yes. He said the truth which nobody wanted to hear and even now we’re still suffering from the fact that we still have loads of players who should have been gotten rid long ago.
Click to expand...
Rangnick was right, but the wonderland wankers all thought they knew better. pricks
 
As DoF - absolutely. Was kind of hoping we went for him instead of Ashworth but I suppose it wouldn't make sense now after keeping Ten Hag.
 
Partridge said:
Rangnick was right, but the wonderland wankers all thought they knew better. pricks
Click to expand...
Who are the ‘wonderland wankers’? This idea that Rangnick was some sort of genius-unappreciated-in-his-own-time Cassandra-like figure who had the miraculous insight to say we needed better players is kinda weird to me. We’ve always needed better players. It’s actually signing better players which has been our problem for years. Most of our signings have been bad, and often worse than the ‘deadwood’ they replaced.
 
Eric_the_Red99 said:
Who are the ‘wonderland wankers’? This idea that Rangnick was some sort of genius-unappreciated-in-his-own-time Cassandra-like figure who had the miraculous insight to say we needed better players is kinda weird to me. We’ve always needed better players. It’s actually signing better players which has been our problem for years. Most of our signings have been bad, and often worse than the ‘deadwood’ they replaced.
Click to expand...
Wonderland wankers being the management. He wasn't wrong. The team needed "open heart surgery". But the management were obviously content with Disney world united. Nobody claimed he was some sort.of genius. Literally nobody. Just that he was right but nobody cares because he's a shit manager.
 
Isn’t he having issues with the Austrian FA? I would take him back, but I don’t see it happening as I don’t think he could work with Ratcliffe.
 
It's too late to be fantasising about Rangnick returning as football director. If that was going to happen it should have happened before we got a new coach. Rangnick would want to remake Man Utd in his own image and we have already decided to go in a different direction by opting for Amorim etc.
 
Bojan11 said:
Isn’t he having issues with the Austrian FA? I would take him back, but I don’t see it happening as I don’t think he could work with Ratcliffe.
Click to expand...
Yes he had, but their FA president just resigned, so Rangnick won that power struggle. So I don't think that would help to get him out of Austria now, but one or two months ago it might have.
 
DevilRed said:
Absolutely. His man management was fecking horrible. As an interim manager, you're supposed to do the opposite. Steady the ship. Improve morale. Instead he tried to sink it as soon as he saw that he wasn't capable of managing this group.

Way out of his depth. A few victories with austria DOES NOT gloss over that fact.
Click to expand...
Being nicey nicey is easy. He could have chosen that path easily. He chose to speak out even knowing that would bite him in the arse because he wanted to do good beyond just sticking a few plasters on and kissing everyone's boo boos. A true friend tells you the truth even if it hurts or affects your relationship. Why are people so sensitive they cant take a few truths? Even if he was wrong so what? The fact that the players or the staff couldnt take it says everything about them and not Rangnick
 
I saw someone post earlier on this thread something along the lines that 'it's easy to determine that players are crap, it's another to identify the right talent'.
Well the thing about that is Rangnick's targets have pretty much all been successes.
Gvardiol, Luis Diaz, Alvarez, Enzo and Laimer have all gone to be quite successful.
Outside of those, Nkunku has been okay, Haaland was obvious and Vlahovic has been a bit up and down.
So I wouldn't really question his talent ID.
 
100% absolutely yes. Give us that open heart surgery.
 
Obviously not, the bloke is a fecking lunatic.
 
johnnyteutonic said:
I saw someone post earlier on this thread something along the lines that 'it's easy to determine that players are crap, it's another to identify the right talent'.
Well the thing about that is Rangnick's targets have pretty much all been successes.
Gvardiol, Luis Diaz, Alvarez, Enzo and Laimer have all gone to be quite successful.
Outside of those, Nkunku has been okay, Haaland was obvious and Vlahovic has been a bit up and down.
So I wouldn't really question his talent ID.
Click to expand...

When were these his targets?

At least three had already moved to their current clubs when Greenwood was suspended, regardless of what he said in his self-serving rant.
 
There are already too many chiefs above the manager and surely Ashworths duties can be absorbed by the others
 
Withnail said:
When were these his targets?

At least three had already moved to their current clubs when Greenwood was suspended, regardless of what he said in his self-serving rant.
Click to expand...
Diaz joined Liverpool right at the end of the January 2022 window, so he was available and Vlahovic I think also joined that window. Both moves happened I think on or near deadline day.
Enzo joined Benfica during the summer of 2022, same with Haaland.
Laimer joined Bayern later on as well.
Nkunku joined Chelsea later on as well.
Gvardiol joined City later on as well.

He was pretty keen on Alvarez when Greenwood got suspended but for that one, it was probably too late in the window though as I think City were already sending their feelers out, so maybe that one was a bit sketchy in terms of being self-serving.

He just wasn't given any backing as he was seen as an interim, but many of those targets were still available later on, and as said, they've pretty much all been proven to be successful.

As for his 'self-serving' rant, I understand you have a dose of cynicism there but a lot of those targets made sense, given his connections with the RB group (Nkunku, Laimer and Gvardiol).
 
johnnyteutonic said:
Diaz joined Liverpool right at the end of the January 2022 window, so he was available and Vlahovic I think also joined that window. Both moves happened I think on or near deadline day.
Enzo joined Benfica during the summer of 2022, same with Haaland.
Laimer joined Bayern later on as well.
Nkunku joined Chelsea later on as well.
Gvardiol joined City later on as well.

He was pretty keen on Alvarez when Greenwood got suspended but for that one, it was probably too late in the window though as I think City were already sending their feelers out, so maybe that one was a bit sketchy in terms of being self-serving.

He just wasn't given any backing as he was seen as an interim, but many of those targets were still available later on, and as said, they've pretty much all been proven to be successful.

As for his 'self-serving' rant, I understand you have a dose of cynicism there but a lot of those targets made sense, given his connections with the RB group (Nkunku, Laimer and Gvardiol).
Click to expand...

It was basically too late for every single one of those he mentioned when talking about Greenwood being suspended and Martial injured.

Vlahovic had signed on the 28th, Diaz signed on the 30th and while Alvarez signed on the 31st we were hardly going to gazump City in the final 24hrs of the window. It seems to be he was just throwing names out there of people who had already moved and could have played that position so I can't give him credence on that list really.

Haaland, obviously everyone knew about him and Ole tried to get him at United years ago.

Gvardiol and Nkunku I'm not sure about and I must admit I don't know a thing about Laimer. Gvardiol has had a poor season and Nkunku hasn't been for as you say.

So for me it's not as simple or as cut and dried as all that. Yes he wasn't backed but he's a great self publicist, that's for sure.
 
wolvored said:
There are already too many chiefs above the manager and surely Ashworths duties can be absorbed by the others
Click to expand...

I think the manager and CEO doing the lion's share of the decision making doesn't work unless you luck upon extraordinary talents, and even then once they're gone it falls apart. I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater, we just need a good DOF who can get behind and push forward whatever our vision is. I think the CEO has too much else on his plate to not delegate to the DOF. I'm speculating but Ashworth may have got sacked in part because his and Berrada's vision clash too much so the answer to that would be to get a DOF in who aligns more with what Berrada is trying to do, and importantly someone who Berrada rates and trusts enough to let them make decisions. Why a DOF is important for continuity has been discussed to death on here.
 
Withnail said:
It was basically too late for every single one of those he mentioned when talking about Greenwood being suspended and Martial injured.

Vlahovic had signed on the 28th, Diaz signed on the 30th and while Alvarez signed on the 31st we were hardly going to gazump City in the final 24hrs of the window. It seems to be he was just throwing names out there of people who had already moved and could have played that position so I can't give him credence on that list really.

Haaland, obviously everyone knew about him and Ole tried to get him at United years ago.

Gvardiol and Nkunku I'm not sure about and I must admit I don't know a thing about Laimer. Gvardiol has had a poor season and Nkunku hasn't been for as you say.

So for me it's not as simple or as cut and dried as all that. Yes he wasn't backed but he's a great self publicist, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
I can see where you're coming from.
I think it is within the realms of possibility that he may have been embittered and frustrated so leaked his intended targets.
And he wouldn't be the first of the ex-managers to point out the shortcomings of the club.

Anyway, my original point was that I think his talent ID has been pretty good in retrospect, regardless of availability of some players at the time of the winter window.
 
Just to point out, Ashworth was not a DoF and was not identifying talent. He was Sporting Director and essentially overseeing all depts that reported into Omar.

Ragnick is a classic DoF, who is hands on in terms of recruitment. Vivell is his nearest equivalent from what we know about our org chart. From everything we know about Ragnick is he wants total control of transfers and contracts which I cannot believe will work with Ineos, or many clubs. He eye for players though is very good and he understood earlier than most about how endurance/speed based football was becoming + why he was so good for RB.
 
It is really funny how we fans think we can assess the potential performance of directors of football, or sporting directions. We have no idea what Berrada may want in a future sporting director to replace Ashworth, if in fact he is to be replaced.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Ragnick is a classic DoF, who is hands on in terms of recruitment. Vivell is his nearest equivalent from what we know about our org chart.
Click to expand...
I don't think he is, the two of them would actually work well together. As I understand it Rangnick (or any other DoF) should be setting the general direction and if he is more hands on (like Rangnick) identifying wanted targets first and then Vivell should be the one to negotiate the deal.
 
stefan92 said:
I don't think he is, the two of them would actually work well together. As I understand it Rangnick (or any other DoF) should be setting the general direction and if he is more hands on (like Rangnick) identifying wanted targets first and then Vivell should be the one to negotiate the deal.
Click to expand...
He is literally our head of recruitment. There's no way Ragnick would be allowed control of footballing identity though, he is seems very wedded to variations of 4222, 4231 etc. If he were here (which he won't be) it would surely be more for running recruitment.
 
gaffs said:
It is really funny how we fans think we can assess the potential performance of directors of football, or sporting directions. We have no idea what Berrada may want in a future sporting director to replace Ashworth, if in fact he is to be replaced.
Click to expand...
I think Berrada would like somebody who's Spanish/Portuguese.. who has a link to Spanish Laliga and has knowledge on sputh American market..
I mean Spain , France, Arg and Brazil is where the talent is .. and we have very less players from those countries..
 
I don’t think he’s a bad guy, but I think his usefulness to most clubs is pretty much insignificant at this point. There was a time when he would be work as a DOF (post SAF), but his ides aren’t really all that revolutionary now.
 
PlasticRed said:
Would love Rangnick as DOF.
Click to expand...

After he uses his expertise to tell us we need to buy the world's best players, he'll quit when we don't cough up the requisite 200 million.

Then, having publicly slated us, he'll return to his level: one of those godawful red bull franchises, Austria or hoffenheim.

He's honestly one of the most abject failures this club has ever had, a loquacious fraud who managed us to death.

Time to stop blaming 'the club' and take a harder look at the failing clowns running it.
 
Crostien said:
After he uses his expertise to tell us we need to buy the world's best players, he'll quit when we don't cough up the requisite 200 million.

Then, having publicly slated us, he'll return to his level: one of those godawful red bull franchises, Austria or hoffenheim.

He's honestly one of the most abject failures this club has ever had, a loquacious fraud who managed us to death.

Time to stop blaming 'the club' and take a harder look at the failing clowns running it.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum, Glazer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.