Deluded applies most aptly to anyone who thinks cutting the manager will have us dominating the world overnight. The best man to take us the extra few yards is already in the job.
Would you take Conte at United?
- Thread starter bond19821982
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It applies both ways. Thinking we have a great manager and we are making tons of progress is gross delusion.Ole isn't winning us a trophy and we aren't winning epl title under him. The sooner you get it, better we all will be
I think Ole needs to be replaced, but there is absolutely no way we should do it with Conte.
Either people are just incredibly desperate for a trophy or they just don’t want to think at all.
I can get opposition fans wondering why we don’t hire Conte and sack our current manager fir him who is doing alright
But United fans wishing for the same whereas they should know best how our club works.
If Conte goes to Chelsea and wins a league but leaves a mess behind, it is worth it. Because the mess will never be as big as at United. Roman won’t allow it (maybe because he runs the club more in a way it should be run and invests more time and money into it because it is his own money).
Roman may allow some managers to make one or two big signings if they can convince him about those players and how they would fit in. But even then most of the times he won’t allow them to do a Sanchez. It will still be some promising youngish player who he will later sell for much more anyway if it doesn’t work out. All the other signings are board signings. And even if by mistake he does a Sanchez signing, getting rid of him and the huge costs and wages will not limit him to make other much needed signings.
In this context also don’t forget that the Bayern board did not allow Pep to buy Neymar.
Now if Conte comes to us:
Best case he will be a Mourinho in terms of transfers and falling out with everyone, but will at least win the league. He will however leave a mess behind. Our board allowed managers in the past to heavily invest in players who were either not a good fit, or it wasn’t a long term signing (but oldish/past it and expensive) or the player didn’t even want to come.
Our board because of the lack of their own knowledge rely more heavily on the transfer input from the manager than other clubs do.
Worst case: Conte does not even win a major trophy - league or CL - (he will fight against two oil clubs in the league after all) and still leaves a mess behind. What then? We hire Carrick as an interim to clean up the mess?
It seems that a lot of people would be fine with the best case scenario described above. But then they are either not understanding that the damage at United would be much bigger than the one a manager would be allowed to leave behind at Chelsea, or they understand it but for now do not care.
What we need is a manager like Klopp who doesn’t guarantee success immediately (but partly also because he is fighting against teams with more resources) and who together with the club invests in at times expensive but planned/strategic and good/youngish/motivated players. Of course they also get stuff wrong from time to time, but not that often.
We are as a club (size, success, history, how the club is run, transfers, etc.) more similar to Liverpool than to City or Chelsea.
That’s why Liverpool/United can’t afford to hire someone like Conte or Mourinho (cough).
I can get opposition fans wondering why we don’t hire Conte and sack our current manager fir him who is doing alright
But United fans wishing for the same whereas they should know best how our club works.
If Conte goes to Chelsea and wins a league but leaves a mess behind, it is worth it. Because the mess will never be as big as at United. Roman won’t allow it (maybe because he runs the club more in a way it should be run and invests more time and money into it because it is his own money).
Roman may allow some managers to make one or two big signings if they can convince him about those players and how they would fit in. But even then most of the times he won’t allow them to do a Sanchez. It will still be some promising youngish player who he will later sell for much more anyway if it doesn’t work out. All the other signings are board signings. And even if by mistake he does a Sanchez signing, getting rid of him and the huge costs and wages will not limit him to make other much needed signings.
In this context also don’t forget that the Bayern board did not allow Pep to buy Neymar.
Now if Conte comes to us:
Best case he will be a Mourinho in terms of transfers and falling out with everyone, but will at least win the league. He will however leave a mess behind. Our board allowed managers in the past to heavily invest in players who were either not a good fit, or it wasn’t a long term signing (but oldish/past it and expensive) or the player didn’t even want to come.
Our board because of the lack of their own knowledge rely more heavily on the transfer input from the manager than other clubs do.
Worst case: Conte does not even win a major trophy - league or CL - (he will fight against two oil clubs in the league after all) and still leaves a mess behind. What then? We hire Carrick as an interim to clean up the mess?
It seems that a lot of people would be fine with the best case scenario described above. But then they are either not understanding that the damage at United would be much bigger than the one a manager would be allowed to leave behind at Chelsea, or they understand it but for now do not care.
What we need is a manager like Klopp who doesn’t guarantee success immediately (but partly also because he is fighting against teams with more resources) and who together with the club invests in at times expensive but planned/strategic and good/youngish/motivated players. Of course they also get stuff wrong from time to time, but not that often.
We are as a club (size, success, history, how the club is run, transfers, etc.) more similar to Liverpool than to City or Chelsea.
That’s why Liverpool/United can’t afford to hire someone like Conte or Mourinho (cough).
All of his current and former players love him though so it isn't like Jose who whilst having his favorites, has everyone else coming out after the fact saying they went through the roughest periods of their careers under him.
Also unlike Jose who hasn't won a league title since 2014, Conte's won it at different clubs since.
The only fights he'd pick wouldn't be with his players or fans, it'd be with the same parasitic fecks at the helm of the club that we all despise so I'd have no problem with him laying bare the very real structural issues we have at the club instead of always defending them and accepting anything at every turn like our current manager.
I don’t think so. But then we’ll see how it pans out, won’t we?
I think we need a better manager to progress further. Ole has done a great job at building a foundation and a squad that has shown at times the ability to compete with the best.
The problem is we can't seem to show proper consistency in the league and we've bottled it in all the cup competitions when it mattered. I can't see us doing any better next season, we just need a top manager to compete with Klopp, Guardiola, even Tuchel. Conte is a top manager and most importantly, is available at the moment. Though, if any other top manager was available, I'd take him as well.
My fear is the club having another failed season and still nothing being done about the problems that we are facing.
The problem is we can't seem to show proper consistency in the league and we've bottled it in all the cup competitions when it mattered. I can't see us doing any better next season, we just need a top manager to compete with Klopp, Guardiola, even Tuchel. Conte is a top manager and most importantly, is available at the moment. Though, if any other top manager was available, I'd take him as well.
My fear is the club having another failed season and still nothing being done about the problems that we are facing.
Well, for a start I quoted a poster who said that way.
Waiting for something to happen is exactly what made us to here. There should be a proactive way of handling things when it comes to management.
I would take him this second. If we have people in charge with ambition, we would do it. But we don't.
Yeah but it’s all about how you look at it. Being patient and waiting for Ole’s management of the club to bear fruit is how we went from poor and way off the pace to 2nd and a European final.
Ole’s management is long term. You cannot have the benefits of a long term view and simultaneously complain about losing a one-off final on penalties and cry “he still hasn’t won a trophy”.
For those who want success quicker, I honestly would suggest they support another club (or try to make peace with the culture) as our board do not want a quick fixer like Conte (neither do I, incidentally, but that’s irrelevant).
So we just don't try and accept we're not winning or challenging and be fine with top 4 and CL group stage maybe with a cup win if we're lucky. Are we just Arsenal now? Do people even have other more realistic option for us than the guy managing our biggest rival? Shouldn't go for the option more likely to compete because our ideal manager is at liverpool?
I don't know if Conte would work out for us or not. Nobody does/will really.
However some of the reasons for not wanting him I don't get.
He will fall out with the board. Is that a bad thing with our board and likes of Ed? If ole is a yes man as some suggest then that might be the problem right there. We've signed players like DVB ands people aren't sure why if he isn't played and by whom as a reason for why he isn't played.
SAF also fell out with the board. Even over a horse iirc.
The problem for me with signing over the hill players is not simple either. Do we buy likes of Amad and not see any progress for a couple of years? Or do we buy a player in his latter stages to compete now?
Form in the champions league. Sure Conte hasn't been successful there but then neither was SAF initially and tbh with the teams we had maybe even winning a couple wasn't enough really? But we dominated the league.
Likes of SAF and Wenger were the anomaly's in our league in terms of longevity. A 3-5 year plan for managers is not to be laughed at.
However some of the reasons for not wanting him I don't get.
He will fall out with the board. Is that a bad thing with our board and likes of Ed? If ole is a yes man as some suggest then that might be the problem right there. We've signed players like DVB ands people aren't sure why if he isn't played and by whom as a reason for why he isn't played.
SAF also fell out with the board. Even over a horse iirc.
The problem for me with signing over the hill players is not simple either. Do we buy likes of Amad and not see any progress for a couple of years? Or do we buy a player in his latter stages to compete now?
Form in the champions league. Sure Conte hasn't been successful there but then neither was SAF initially and tbh with the teams we had maybe even winning a couple wasn't enough really? But we dominated the league.
Likes of SAF and Wenger were the anomaly's in our league in terms of longevity. A 3-5 year plan for managers is not to be laughed at.
I think the difference is that most people do not believe ole's management is good enough to lead to long term success. I'm pretty sure most people would love it if it was the case.
Ole being here long term winning us trophies would be the best of all solution
If we have a plan to replace Ole by someone who would continue what Ole started and can actually get these trophies and bring this long term success would be the second best. A lot of people seems to think this is the way to go but people rarely talk about who this manager actually would be.
What I fear will happen? Our owners will be happy with Ole getting relatively good result even if we don't get trophies and don't really compete for the league and we will keep him for years without any real concrete plan. We will fire him once he gets bad result to be replaced by another manager who is available at the time may be good enough or not and who may continue what Ole has been doing or try to do something different. If Ole can do well enough by the time we replace him it may be because our squad is full of old and average players again due to the lack of investment and the new manager will be given more years to "rebuild" again.
And compared to that getting managers who are able to progress and improve the squad enough to win leagues in 1 or 2 season don't seem so bad to me even if it means changing manager every 2-3 years.
Quite simple. The team shows progress. Maybe slow but it is progress, 20/21 was easily a better season than 19/20.
We are 2nd in the league instead of 3rd, we got into EL finals instead of semis, top four was comfortable, we were even top of the table for a few days, we played in CL and had some good wins in the death group before we bottled it.
We beat Liverpool, City, Spurt, PSG, Leipzig, scored 9 against Soton, our bench/kids beat Wolves and we are unbeated away from home for a whole season. And I think we have been quite consistent in the last 18 months, started the season badly but bounced back, and had a small collapse in the end after fans’ protests. This after zero addition to the first team.
Why should we gamble on a new manager now when the team looks stable and they show progress? Let’s see how next season goes, can we show further progress or win something, then if we stagnate we can consider a new manager who wants to go in the same direction as Ole and continue his work with better abilities.
No, but we don’t just go for the one who is available. If our board was actually competent enough to plan for a suitable manager then we wouldn’t be in this “mess” (with that I mean not competing for the league for 8 years) anyway.
But then if the board was competent enough to find us a good manager, then they would have probably also been competent enough not to hire Mourinho, not to buy Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez, past it Matic, etc. for huge money and wouldn’t be handing out big long term contracts to DdG, Jones, Bailly, Matic, etc.
We will either be successful with Ole or by luck (again, like Liverpool) manage to get a great manager. But the last thing I want is a manager whose ego is that big that he just looks at his CV and wants to add any trophies at any cost. Some of the mediocre but expensive players he then buys and who will outlast him is then of course not his problem, but United’s.
And it does not matter what us fans might suggest as options. We can only guess what our board’s thinking is. And based on what I have witnessed with the Glazers so far and especially since the man who kept winning trophies despite them retired I believe this is what their thinking is (regardless of what fans think):
- They have hired two top class managers in the past who failed. Both managed to finish outside top 4 in one of their full season despite spending enough money. One was intolerable in his last season/year before being sacked.
- The current guy has finished top 4 in both of his full seasons while spending money
- We were 3rd last season and 2nd now.
- As long as this continues and we don’t strengthen our starting eleven this will be the target.
If we fail to qualify for top 4 he will be sacked
- The only scenario where I can see the Glazers sacking Ole for not properly challenging for the league title is if the Glazers this summer actually strengthen big (Sancho + at least one out of DM/CB, ideally both)
- Fans can go on about tin pot cups all they want but they don’t bring money. CL qualification does.
- Glazers know about finances. So they will also know that City finished ahead of us last season and still strengthened their starting eleven with Dias. Chelsea finished on equal pointwith us and still went on to buy basically everyone.
Even the league winners bought Thiago (Jota I won’t count as he was probably not signed for the first eleven).
Whereas we made a last minute free Cavani signing, a player who could strengthen our first eleven when fit.
- As long as their transfer approach won’t change, their expectations beyond top 4 will also not change.
I see the appeal of a manager who comes in and wins but usually they come in, spend a lot and then win. I don’t see the board sanctioning that kind of short term spend.
Regarding your fears, these do sound rational and I understand people who feel that way. But if you look at what is happening now, the whole club is being run with a long term view. That doesn’t mean we are planning for winning the league in 3 years or whatever, it means every decision is made in the long term interest of the club - buying young prospects every year, developing the academy on a perpetual basis, bringing in experience to improve the squad and help develop the younger players. These things are happening on a continuous basis and there is no chance of an ageing squad being left behind by Ole.
You are right, many people don’t think Ole will ever get to the level of winning leagues and cups. But when you analyse what is happening to the club, it is, in my opinion, inevitable that the structure and policies of the football side of the club will lead to a squad with the right profile and operating in the right framework to win consistently over many years, as we did before.
It may be that any of several managers could do the job I’ve described. But you have to ask, who really has the appetite and patience for such a project?
In fact it is more than a project, it is a Life’s Work.
Whether this idea strikes a chord in you depends on your own philosophy and expectation but I, personally, cannot imagine anything more beautiful.
No. The promising kids we have would never get a look in.
You know there’s 2 of them, right?And your from Carolina, we all have our badge to bare
Regardless of whether most will believe he is a better coach than Ole he would almost certainly come in and undo a huge amount of the excellent work Ole’s done in ridding the club of the wrong type of player.
He signs questionable players, does well, p*sses everybody off then leaves.
Not sure that’s what we need right now. As a fan I’m after sustained success personally but everybody has their own view.
He signs questionable players, does well, p*sses everybody off then leaves.
Not sure that’s what we need right now. As a fan I’m after sustained success personally but everybody has their own view.
I hate the term "project" when used in reference to football, but Ole is still on the up in his project.
It'd be baffling to get rid at this stage.
It'd be baffling to get rid at this stage.
Not closer than 100 feet.. We have manager capable of winning everything there is to win, with the young squad. Patience.
Yeah except in fairness to Conte he still wins things in that initial period before self destructingThe new Mourinho
Fair enough, you won me over here.
I guess I was overreacting from the finals loss.
Hats off to you
This.
I’m sure they are both beautiful
Why aren’t you promoted yet. Bang on.
What about Zizou instead of Conte? Ought to piss off Maguire with the lack of English-speaking trainers.
I wanted Zidane when he was available the last time after we sacked Jose.
I'm certain he could surely get a tune out of our current squad given what he was able to achieve with a mediocre Madrid side these past 2 years.
Just don't think our ownership and management are the kinds to take a gamble on a foreign manager with a great track record like Chelsea with Tuchel, they'll always opt for the 'safe' option which will continue to keep us in a holding pattern in terms of not making the leap towards challenging for major honors again
What Conte? I would take even Hassenhuttl in a heart beat. Bielsa too. Even Potter.
We need a coach who is well in-tuned with the modern game but also has the ability to develop youth or show enthusiasm to develop youth. I don't think Conte is that manager and it would be another case of Jose and LVG again.(more Jose)
Now that Nagelsmann and Rose are unavailable, it might be best for us to look at the likes of Potter, Ten Hag, Adi Hutter etc, who are all well versed when it comes to understanding the requirements of the modern game. It doesn't have to be the three names I mentioned, but going down this route will bear fruit IMO. Appointing someone who understands the market would also be beneficial imo, which could help us make value signings.
Now that Nagelsmann and Rose are unavailable, it might be best for us to look at the likes of Potter, Ten Hag, Adi Hutter etc, who are all well versed when it comes to understanding the requirements of the modern game. It doesn't have to be the three names I mentioned, but going down this route will bear fruit IMO. Appointing someone who understands the market would also be beneficial imo, which could help us make value signings.
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We'd have won the other night with Conte for what it's worth. Easily.
We'd win things with Conte I've no doubt, but it would come at a price. I just don't want that sort of destructive personality around the club anytime soon.
I want a manager who can take us to the next stage of the rebuild, which Ole started
The next stage is winning trophies and I don't see Ole doing that. He's taken us as far as he can in my opinion.
Being kind, he MAY pick up a league cup or at a push a league Cup but he's not winning the major trophies
United should be challenging for the league and Championship League (don't forget we couldn't get out the group this season - yes it was a tricky group but we put ourselves in a good position then threw it away)
Also would we have got 2nd in a usual campaign? Everyone else was rubbish this year
I'm not sure who the next manager should be, but in my opinion Ole is has done his part of the rebuild but hasn't the ability to take us to the next stage, and needs to be upgraded
I bet we give him a new contract, which we shouldn't. All this talk of rebuild, surely a rebuild is to get us back to where we used to be. This is not where we used to be.
The next stage is winning trophies and I don't see Ole doing that. He's taken us as far as he can in my opinion.
Being kind, he MAY pick up a league cup or at a push a league Cup but he's not winning the major trophies
United should be challenging for the league and Championship League (don't forget we couldn't get out the group this season - yes it was a tricky group but we put ourselves in a good position then threw it away)
Also would we have got 2nd in a usual campaign? Everyone else was rubbish this year
I'm not sure who the next manager should be, but in my opinion Ole is has done his part of the rebuild but hasn't the ability to take us to the next stage, and needs to be upgraded
I bet we give him a new contract, which we shouldn't. All this talk of rebuild, surely a rebuild is to get us back to where we used to be. This is not where we used to be.
He will give you a great chance of winning the league, but he wouldn't stay very long.
Nope, 100% definitely not. We have the right idea with Ole and he deserves at least another season to try to win a trophy.
If that doesn’t work out, we need to be looking at hungry, talented young managers, not quick fixes. We’re never going to be able to outspend City so we have to be thinking in 5YR blocks
If that doesn’t work out, we need to be looking at hungry, talented young managers, not quick fixes. We’re never going to be able to outspend City so we have to be thinking in 5YR blocks
Surely you just get rid at the point you feel like it's about to get destructive? Like what Chelsea did?
I don't think there ever will be a long term fix with the Glazers around, so may as well accept any short-term ones that come our way. That being said, it wouldn't be the best football to watch.
No
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