Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[elnorte]

I understand your arguments against Ole and it is hard to defend at this point but replacing him isn’t the answer in my and most people I know opinion due to the fact the next guy will fail in all likelihood.

It’s time to stick or twist and let the cards fall where they may.

I’m sticking.

If we were to sack him how do you envisage the future of his management career, say, five to ten years from now?

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Well. no one has said here either that sacking him alone would magically solve all our problems. The majority are critical of both him, Woodward and players, and you'll see them slaughtering each of them in their own thread. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

I don’t get why so many people in this thread are struggling to understand this.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

It's not going to solve the Woodward's and squad's problems. I never said that it would, nor I ever said we would become world beaters after he leaves. My point is Ole is himself a problem on his own that needs solving, similar to Woodward's and Squad's ones. He's not a victim of these, but one of the many problems we had currently, and probably the easier to solve, and even with a better squad or DoF, he's not the way to go forward by any means.

In this day and age when most clubs are player powered I don’t think it matters much who is managing, I read Roberto Carlos the other day talking about one of his managers at Madrid was sacked right quick for taking away the beer and wine after a game.

They win 3 champions league in a row under a former player who was part of that squad, just thinking it’s maybe better to have that player understanding as a manager which we have now.

Unfortunately we don’t have as great a squad as Madrid had, no new manager coming in next week is going to solve that.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If we were to sack him how do you envisage the future of his management career, say, five to ten years from now?

Over pretty much if so, much like the other 3 failures.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

I understand your arguments against Ole and it is hard to defend at this point but replacing him isn’t the answer in my and most people I know opinion due to the fact the next guy will fail in all likelihood.

It’s time to stick or twist and let the cards fall where they may.

I’m sticking.

If we keep plunging down the table the board wont have any choice. Due you honestly think the manager or these players would up for a relegation fight.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If we keep plunging down the table the board wont have any choice. Due you honestly think the manager or these players would up for a relegation fight.

Ole has experience of that at least.

Jokes aside, the board or more pointedly Ed anointed him so is he going to admit to yet another failure? I don’t think so.

The players we have I don’t think they have the fight for a title charge, champions league fight, europa fight or relegation fight.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I understand your arguments against Ole and it is hard to defend at this point but replacing him isn’t the answer in my and most people I know opinion due to the fact the next guy will fail in all likelihood.

It’s time to stick or twist and let the cards fall where they may.

I’m sticking.

Fair enough.

How long does that backing last though?

Will you still want to stick if Liverpool stuff us 0-3?

Since getting the job permanently, United literally are in relegation form. No team is too big to go down. I’m all for backing, ie if we were just below the top 4, getting sucked into bottom half obscurity is something else

 

[Random Task]

The big question that should be asked when discussing Solskjaers immediate future is:
Would another manager immediately improve results with the same players available.
If so, then yeah he should probably go.
If not then it doesn't really matter either way.

That's a fair question.

Could a new manager get an increase in performance squad wide? All things considered; the lack of squad-depth, the ever-increasing injury crisis and the sheer number of holes within the midfield and attacking areas, it's highly unlikely the current squad is even remotely good enough to challenge for a CL spot in one of the most competitive leagues in world football.

Also, after four straight managerial failures under the leadership of one Ed Woodward, I have zero confidence that we will employ the correct successor to Ole. All the while that man is given authority to make critical decisions regards the football side of the business, the longer we're going to be stuck in this rut.

 

[elnorte]

Over pretty much if so, much like the other 3 failures.

He is younger and there are reasons too which set him apart from those other three. If he has genuine talent then it should in the end show through and he'll therefore inevitably be a success somewhere down the line. In which case of course United would like fools for sacking him.

However, the point I'm really making is that this is not a possible outcome since, in reality, he is so lacking in ability. Therefore regardless of the fact we're an absolute calamity in all areas there's nothing to be gained from keeping someone around who'll never amount to anything in the short or the long term.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Fair enough.

How long does that backing last though?

Will you still want to stick if Liverpool stuff us 0-3?

Since getting the job permanently, United literally are in relegation form. No team is too big to go down. I’m all for backing, ie if we were just below the top 4, getting sucked into bottom half obscurity is something else

Once we are outside top 4 I’m past caring (in most respects) where we finish, it’s time to look to the future. The form is not great and he is responsible for that but at the end of the day it comes down to on the pitch and these bums are proving useless (at least the ones that can be bothered playing).

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He is younger and there are reasons too which set him apart from those other three. If he has genuine talent then it should in the end show through and he'll therefore inevitably be a success somewhere down the line.

However, the point I'm really making is that this is not a possible outcome since, in reality, he is so lacking in ability. Therefore regardless of the fact we're an absolute calamity in all areas there's nothing to be gained from keeping someone around who'll never amount to anything in the short or the long term.

You can’t recover from failing with United so he is fecked if so. I think there is still life in the old dog yet.

 

[Random Task]

He is younger and there are reasons too which set him apart from those other three. If he has genuine talent then it should in the end show through and he'll therefore inevitably be a success somewhere down the line. In which case of course United would like fools for sacking him.

However, the point I'm really making is that this is not a possible outcome since, in reality, he is so lacking in ability. Therefore regardless of the fact we're an absolute calamity in all areas there's nothing to be gained from keeping someone around who'll never amount to anything in the short or the long term.

Where's the logic in sacking our current manager when the guy chosen to appoint his successor has proven, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he is incapable of doing so successfully.

After four failures in succession, what makes you think it will be any different the next time around?

 

[el3mel]

In this day and age when most clubs are player powered I don’t think it matters much who is managing, I read Roberto Carlos the other day talking about one of his managers at Madrid was sacked right quick for taking away the beer and wine after a game.

They win 3 champions league in a row under a former player who was part of that squad, just thinking it’s maybe better to have that player understanding as a manager which we have now.

Unfortunately we don’t have as great a squad as Madrid had, no new manager coming in next week is going to solve that.

No it matters. Another manager can get more of a squad in his hands than being 12th in the league 2 points away from first relegating spot. That's on Ole 100%. The squad is crap but it shouldn't be close to relegation.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

No it matters. Another manager can get more of a squad in his hands than being 12th in the league 2 points away from first relegating spot. That's on Ole 100%. The squad is crap but it shouldn't be close to relegation.

So you want results now rather than long term?

 

[el3mel]

So you want results now rather than long term?

Are you seriously convinced Ole is building for long term here ? We're building nothing at the moment. There's no work being done on the pitch tactically and play style wise to think it's going to click on long term, and the squad has become far worse than last season after he got his summer market and preseason. We're just wasting everyone's time with his reign as a manager to be totally honest. The next manager is going to start from the scratch anyway. Let him go and hire a manager who has a clear vision and style and let him rebuild.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Are you seriously convinced Ole is building for long term here ? We're building nothing at the moment. There's no work being done on the pitch tactically and play style wise to think it's going to click on long term, and the squad has become far worse than last season after he got his summer market and preseason. We're just wasting everyone's time with his reign as a manager to be totally honest. The next manager is going to start from the scratch anyway. Let him go and hire a manager who has a clear vision and style and let him rebuild.

/This.

Amazes me people still attempt to defend this catastrophe as the beginning of a rebuild.

OgS hasn’t improved the players, is tactically inept & holds no sway with the board to make them sign adequate replacements for players sold.

I can handle the fact OgS may have to deal with an inept board & might not get the players he wanted in but the guy has done nothing tactically to show he’s the man we need.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Are you seriously convinced Ole is building for long term here ? We're building nothing at the moment. There's no work being done on the pitch tactically and play style wise to think it's going to click on long term, and the squad has become far worse than last season after he got his summer market and preseason. We're just wasting everyone's time with his reign as a manager to be totally honest. The next manager is going to start from the scratch anyway. Let him go and hire a manager who has a clear vision and style and let him rebuild.

Disagree, while the results aren’t coming clearly I can see progression and a plan finally. We had Moyes and his plan of making us Everton, LVG and his negative bore them to into submission plan, Jose and his usual plan of buying players ready to win strategy. At least Ole has a plan, it’s not working yet but they usually don’t early on.

 

[elnorte]

Where's the logic in sacking our current manager when the guy chosen to appoint his successor has proven, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he is incapable of doing so successfully.

After four failures in succession, what makes you think it will be any different the next time around?

Getting rid of Solksjaer alone is logical. It drastically reduces the chances of a worst case scenario outcome in the short term.

 

[el3mel]

Disagree, while the results aren’t coming clearly I can see progression and a plan finally. We had Moyes and his plan of making us Everton, LVG and his negative bore them to into submission plan, Jose and his usual plan of buying players ready to win strategy. At least Ole has a plan, it’s not working yet but they usually don’t early on.

It's up to you and your opinion I guess. For me I don't see any plan whatsoever. Time will tell.

 

[elnorte]

Disagree, while the results aren’t coming clearly I can see progression and a plan finally. We had Moyes and his plan of making us Everton, LVG and his negative bore them to into submission plan, Jose and his usual plan of buying players ready to win strategy. At least Ole has a plan, it’s not working yet but they usually don’t early on.

Not a semblance of one. He couldn't plan finding his own ass with both hands.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Disagree, while the results aren’t coming clearly I can see progression and a plan finally. We had Moyes and his plan of making us Everton, LVG and his negative bore them to into submission plan, Jose and his usual plan of buying players ready to win strategy. At least Ole has a plan, it’s not working yet but they usually don’t early on.

Genuine question, what are you seeing in regards to play etc. “Ole has a plan”, which is?

 

[Random Task]

Getting rid of Solksjaer alone is logical. It drastically reduces the chances of a worst case scenario outcome in the short term.

That may or may not be the case. We don't know if that's true given the many shortcomings of the current squad.

But you didn't answer the question mate. What makes you believe Woodward will get it right this time around?

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

If it's so easy, then why have the vast majority of all signings since SAF retired turned out unsuccessful?

Ole is the first manager since SAF with a clear transfer strategy that rhymes well with Man Utd's overall philosophy.

When you say Man Utd’s overall transfer policy you basically mean “SAF’s transfer policy”, which is?
Vidic, Ruud, Evra , Schmeichel, Keane, Yorke,Rooney, Ronaldo, Stam, Solskjaer, Cantona, etc
What is the main criteria those players fall under other than that they were either very talented or very good for other teams or both?
SAF made some poor buys too, but it’s hard to put his transfers under a certain strategy.

I would be all for us focusing on buying British players if they were as talented as Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand and Wayne Rooney were, but the truly great current ones aren’t available (Kane, Sterling), and paying over the odds for Rice or Maddison isn’t something I would like to see us doing.

Besides, hailing AWB, Maguire (we’re talking about the most expensive CB in football history) and James as successful buys is incredibly premature at this stage.

 

[MisterLupus]

In this day and age when most clubs are player powered I don’t think it matters much who is managing, I read Roberto Carlos the other day talking about one of his managers at Madrid was sacked right quick for taking away the beer and wine after a game.

They win 3 champions league in a row under a former player who was part of that squad, just thinking it’s maybe better to have that player understanding as a manager which we have now.

Unfortunately we don’t have as great a squad as Madrid had, no new manager coming in next week is going to solve that.

I see people bring up this point about firing and hiring managers on almost a whim several times advocating it as a recipe for victory - and I've done some research and it turns out it can be if the conditions are right. However - at United they aren't - because the clubs doing this successfully have a very different setup than we do here. They have a panel of assorted experts and analysts running the footballing side of things - in accordance to both shifting trends and long term philosophies - meaning the manager's influence is less important (in some cases almost to the point of insignificance). They can even afford sacking someone after having won them pretty much everything - or while being in the process of doing so - as everything is set up so that the team can still roll on even if they put a wig on a doorknob and hires that next. We on the other hand - Manchester United Football Club - have Woodward and pals - meaning everything is setup so that the team will fall face first and break it's teeth even if the manager is overseeing everything personally - top class and doing his best - as Ed and his buds from Uni are no experts on anything even remotely football related but will still meddle in pretty much everything.

We need a proper administration - a grand plan and competent people in charge of overseeing every aspect of it and if we don't we'll go through this mess every time a manager leaves us or is sacked as absolutely everything falls under their responsibility. In the meanwhile - sticking with someone who's building for the long term is probably our second best option - so even if Solskjaer isn't with us this time next year (I hope he makes it I really really do it will be terrible for our club if he doesn't) - I at least pray whomever is shares his vision and picks up where he left off continuing the same path so we don't just end up hitting the reset button once more - having to start from scratch yet again forcing some other poor sucker taking on this toxic environment to also build his foundation on the ruins of a previous regime.

Because that's another thing those who are so keen on sacking Ole won't understand - I see people are already discussing "who should we get next" as if we can just point and wave and they'll come running to us eagerly wagging their tails and everything - that this club is gaining a reputation of being the place where good things go to die and that most likely only someone loyal to us - a true servant such as Ole - or someone either desperate or greedy would even consider risking their reputation and (not to mention) zest for life by signing for us. If I was a young and progressive manager today with a promising career ahead of me - the exact kind everyone in here covets - Manchester United would be resembling a slow-motion train crash in progress of imploding onto itself killing everyone on board more so than a safe and desirable career move.

So yeah... Really hope Ole makes it - and I really hope our football club finally turns professional rather than being run by amateurs on an administrative level so that even if he doesn't - we won't be stuck in this mess eternally.

 

[Random Task]

Not a semblance of one. He couldn't plan finding his own ass with both hands.

Ole clearly had/has a plan in place which he would have outlined, in detail no doubt, to the man hiring him. He wouldn't have gotten the job otherwise.

Unless you're suggesting that his employer dispensed with the usual recruiting process and simply hired him because we beat PSG?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Genuine question, what are you seeing in regards to play etc. “Ole has a plan”, which is?

3 new players who have probably been the best 3 players so far this season, the injuries have crippled the ability to maintain any sense of form or progression though.

 

[Random Task]

Genuine question, what are you seeing in regards to play etc. “Ole has a plan”, which is?

Ole stated before the season had begun that his plan would come to fruition 2-3 years down the line. He has been very open about that to his credit.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Not a semblance of one. He couldn't plan finding his own ass with both hands.

So getting rid of deadwood and bringing in 3 new players all of which look good signings isn’t a plan?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ted-horror-story-Ed-Woodward-needs-fired.html

 

[MisterLupus]

3 new players who have probably been the best 3 players so far this season, the injuries have crippled the ability to maintain any sense of form or progression though.

They've done more than that. Work rate, possession, defensive organization and even our ability to sustain pressure high on the pitch have all improved since last season. In fact our only real problem now is the complete impotence we're seeing in terms of creating and converting chances - it's that finishing touch separating us from looking a decent side nothing more - unlike last year when we looked clueless all over the field and in every aspect of our play. The bummer being of course - that this finishing touch - the ability to actually create and score goals - is the most important part of any teams ability to win games - and also that it was totally avoidable had they just realized how dire a need this was during the summer and compromised a little on their transfer policy. I believe Solskjaer misjudged the potential of this squad horribly when he decided not to push harder for a couple of midfielders and a striker - and that's why we're paying this price right now a lot of us saw it coming.

 

[elnorte]

That may or may not be the case. We don't know if that's true given the many shortcomings of the current squad.

But you didn't answer the question mate. What makes you believe Woodward will get it right this time around?

Obviously that's a loaded question. Woodward being a shitehawk is not a reason to keep Solskjaer. We shouldn't have a manager whose level of incompetence is so great that's he capable of dragging the team into a relegation scrap. Therefore Woodward sacking him and mitigating that scenario is all we need right now. We can then start thinking about how to address the much wider problems (Woodward being one of them) after this most immediate threat has been dealt with properly.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

They've done more than that. Work rate, possession, defensive organization and even our ability to sustain pressure high on the pitch have all improved since last season. In fact our only real problem now is the complete impotence we're seeing in terms of creating and converting chances - it's that finishing touch separating us from looking a decent side nothing more - unlike last year when we looked clueless all over the field and in every aspect of our play. The bummer being of course - that this finishing touch - the ability to actually create and score goals - is the most important part of any teams ability to win games - and also that it was totally avoidable had they just realized how dire a need this was during the summer and compromised a little on their transfer policy. I believe Solskjaer misjudged the potential of this squad horribly when he decided not to push harder for a couple of midfielders and a striker - and that's why we're paying this price right now a lot of us saw it coming.

The truth is we don’t know how hard or not he pushed for a replacement for Lukaku.

We all know Woodward is incompetent though.

 

[elnorte]

So getting rid of deadwood and bringing in 3 new players all of which look good signings isn’t a plan?

Jesus, this has been addressed time and time and time again which you know perfectly well. Please try to be serious and refrain from the glib nonsense.

 

[momo83]

Ole stated before the season had begun that his plan would come to fruition 2-3 years down the line. He has been very open about that to his credit.

What’s that turn us into the best team in League 1?

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ted-horror-story-Ed-Woodward-needs-fired.html

Article reads like it was written by one of redcafe’s toppest reds, particularly this part:

“It is too early to judge Solskjaer. Way too early. He took over at a club that had been thoroughly demoralised by the reign of Jose Mourinho and is still fighting to repair the damage. Some of the revisionism around Mourinho's time at the club is amusing. United were sixth when he was fired and heading south fast in mid-season. His methods were outdated and worn. He was a vanity hire.”

Why is our club becomes demoralized after every manager?

What some of those who still believe in Ole don’t understand is that if you’ve created a poll here on who wants to see Woodward sacked, you would get about 99% for his sacking.
But that’s something that goes beyond football, we have no idea why he is in the job, it defies all logic, pretty sure that everyone here can understand that he should be sacked before the manager.

Good to see the Woodward bashing that started in the press lately (long overdue but better late than never), this could lead to his sacking.

 

[lsd]

His signings have been good which shows he has a long term plan and you can only disagree with that if you think his signings have been poor .

He has gotten rid off dead wood and has a lot more dead wood to get rid off as well as bringing more players in that fit what he wants at Utd the same way his summer signings have

 

[MisterLupus]

The truth is we don’t know how hard or not he pushed for a replacement for Lukaku.

We all know Woodward is incompetent though.

I'm relating to his own statements in the press - all indicating he was happy and ready to go. And yeah I know nobody with even a hint of professionalism about them stirs up controversies in the press - but unless he said "I'm sorry mister Woodward and Pals but you guys are utterly batshit in your brains if you think I can do this job without reinforcing these areas" - then he has to take part of the blame. Being a pushover when confronted by idiocy is not the hallmarks of a great leader - and that decision was unquestionably idiotic no matter who's responsible. Even if he was pushed into that decision - that's one instance where he should have pushed back as hard as he could.

 

[Smores]

So getting rid of deadwood and bringing in 3 new players all of which look good signings isn’t a plan?

It's not a plan that requires Ole specifically as coach though is it? A DoF could have made the two obvious signings and anyone with Giggs ear James.

The plan needs to be about on field activity too and he needs to demonstrate that plan otherwise why not get someone else in who can actually fulfil the main role of a manager

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I'm relating to his own statements in the press - all indicating he was happy and ready to go. And yeah I know nobody with even a hint of professionalism about them stirs up controversies in the press - but unless he said "I'm sorry mister Woodward and Pals but you guys are utterly batshit in your brains if you think I can do this job without reinforcing these areas" - then he has to take part of the blame. Being a pushover when confronted by idiocy is not the hallmarks of a great leader - and that decision was unquestionably idiotic no matter who's responsible. Even if he was pushed into that decision - that's one instance where he should have pushed back as hard as he could.

While Mourinho under those circumstances with his resume could do that and did, what good did it do?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

It's not a plan that requires Ole specifically as coach though is it? A DoF could have made the two obvious signings and anyone with Giggs ear James.

The plan needs to be about on field activity too and he needs to demonstrate that plan otherwise why not get someone else in who can actually fulfil the main role of a manager

We ain’t got a DoF though so he must be due some credit or is it only criticism he’s due?