Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[b82REZ]

Why is this DoF suggestion coming in place? I'm sorry but it takes a special level of ignorance to just take a punt on Ole as a DoF. Just get rid, he doesn't need to have a footballing role at the club that he's not even qualified for.

It's the romanticism of having one of Fergie's ex players involved in the club in some capacity.

He shown nothing to suggest he's a capable manager, yet we should throw him into a role he has even less experience in, because...reasons.

Even some of his staunchest defenders have started to accept that all his signings aren't all amazing. In all honesty he has one true success in the transfer market and multiple, potential duds.

 

[romufc]

Why is this DoF suggestion coming in place? I'm sorry but it takes a special level of ignorance to just take a punt on Ole as a DoF. Just get rid, he doesn't need to have a footballing role at the club that he's not even qualified for.

Its sentiment. A DoF will have a style of play he wants the club to develop. He will sign players to suit that style.

Ole has made good signings but do they suit his style? He wanted to play fast attacking football, leaving defenders to be able to defend 1 v 1.

Maguire doesnt suit that style
AWB doesnt suit that style

Ole would not make a good DoF, he has no experience in the role, he has no links with agents unless they are Norwegian.

 

[Berbaclass]

'Points since Bruno joined' is genuinely one of the most hilarious metrics I've ever seen for anything, ever.

Lads, we won the 'most points since Bruno joined' league. Take that Liverpool with your irrelevant PL title and hipster manager. Just listen to yourselves ffs, the excuses are embarrassing.

Realistically we're 3rd behind Liverpool and City. Both took their foot off the pedal when Liverpool went so far clear. It's totally meaningless when you look at the context.

 

[Hugh Jass]

We are relying on individual brilliance rather than collective brilliance. We rely on Bruno and Rashford to create things themselves rather than the team working as a unit.

Last night we resorted to trying to score from free kicks, corners and we got a penalty. That was our tactics.

I said it last night, if Nagglesman was in charge of us and Ole was in charge or RB, we would have hammered them 5 nil.

 

[Bobcat]

I’ve heard this before here so please do go deeper, explain a rebuild to me so I know when a manager can be questioned.
• How long does it take?
• How much money does it take?
• Does the manager stay regardless or do we have any targets?
• Do we ignore all massive mistakes like last night?

Finally, should every manager at every club be given these terms? And, are they always successful?

I mean, I know Liverpool were the kings of the rebuild for 20 years:

Souness - 3 years
Roy Evans - 4-5 years
Houllier - 5-6 years
Rafa - 6 years

Why didn't it work for them @TheRedDevil2019 ? What did they do wrong?


Please, I want to be educated so I’m all ears.

• How long does it take?
Depending on the task at hand and how much money you can splurge each window, 4-6 windows. When Ole took over we needed: RB, CB, CM, AM, RW and maybe a ST. We have addressed RB, CB and AM, although serious questions have to be asked about Maguire after this shambles of a season. Van der Beek i cant make my mind up about. Did Ole even want him? The fact that hes been played so little is strange

----------------Henderson-----------------
AWB--Maguire--Lindelof--Shaw
-----------Fred----VdB-------------------
------------------Bruno--------------------
Greenwood--Martial--Rashford

This is imo, the best team we can put out there. Not good enough to win the PL or CL, but should be good enough to get top 4. If Martial and Maguire can get their act together we can manage with them for now. According to this Ed could spend in January. Assuming we can ship of Pogba for around 50-60 million and spend that money wisely we are closer then we were at the end of last window. A top quality DM or Sancho would do nicely

How much money does it take?
In our case, more than it should have because we are terrible at negotiating deals

Does the manager stay regardless or do we have any targets?
Tangible progress needs to be made both in terms of performances and results. Top 4 and more points than last year should be the minimum. If we can win a cup, that would be nice.

Do we ignore all massive mistakes like last night?
No. Even his most vocal cheerleaders on here are unhappy about last night and its going to take a lot to wash that stain away.

I think he deserves to keep his head for now, but since i am neither a child nor a mentalist, i am more than open to change my stance if/when things go south. Before yesterday i was about 70/30 on keep/sack, while today its more like 60/40

 

[Hugh Jass]

I would give him till the end of the season. We might win some shitty cup or something. But we are not coached. Look at how Hansi Flick was able to transform Bayern in six months to the point that they do the treble. Ole has been here two years and last night in the second half, our tactics were to get corners and free kicks.

 

[Zhagzi]

It's mental. If you ask any United fan what they think about SAF they would say he is a GOAT, and rightly so. But at the same time they spout nonsense like no manager could do any better than Ole. Same Ole that will absolutely struggle to find a job at highest level after he is eventually sacked. Top manager would 100% do better than Ole, how is this even a discussion

Well Jose and LvG were when signed considered top managers. They really didn't do that much better with what we're currently having. Also, it seems Solskjær is also putting a lot more emphasis on recruitment for young talents around the world. He's trying to build a steady foundation for the future.
The best examples of why this is a fantastic strategy is Bayern Munich. Their prime years in 2011-2015 was based on a

Title race? And I'm the silly one?

Calling for his sack on Monday after a ChL-exit we all thought was already set in stone before the first game was played. Though the prophecy has been realized, we were doing a lot better than anticipated I would say.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Decent post that @Bobcat

 

[Greck]

Well Jose and LvG were when signed considered top managers. They really didn't do that much better with what we're currently having. Also, it seems Solskjær is also putting a lot more emphasis on recruitment for young talents around the world. He's trying to build a steady foundation for the future.
The best examples of why this is a fantastic strategy is Bayern Munich. Their prime years in 2011-2015 was based on a


Calling for his sack on Monday after a ChL-exit we all thought was already set in stone before the first game was played. Though the prophecy has been realized, we were doing a lot better than anticipated I would say.

Except they did. Ole would have to win 2 cups this season to match Jose's tenure

 

[dove]

Well Jose and LvG were when signed considered top managers. They really didn't do that much better with what we're currently having. Also, it seems Solskjær is also putting a lot more emphasis on recruitment for young talents around the world. He's trying to build a steady foundation for the future.
The best examples of why this is a fantastic strategy is Bayern Munich. Their prime years in 2011-2015 was based on a

Both of them are dinosaurs, especially LVG. What I meant by top manager is somebody who is very good right now, not 5 years ago and not 20 years ago like in LVG's case. Also, Jose did better. Biggest issue was his personality and style of football.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Calling for his sack on Monday after a ChL-exit we all thought was already set in stone before the first game was played. Though the prophecy has been realized, we were doing a lot better than anticipated I would say.

Set in stone

Against the mighty Leipzig, 3rd best team in Germany. A team we actually twatted 7-3 on aggregate.
Hilarious the excuses.

 

[UbicaMekogSrca]

Love the dinosaurs digs at manager who is first on the table and schooled our progressive manager 6-1 at OT.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Well Jose and LvG were when signed considered top managers. They really didn't do that much better with what we're currently having. Also, it seems Solskjær is also putting a lot more emphasis on recruitment for young talents around the world. He's trying to build a steady foundation for the future.
The best examples of why this is a fantastic strategy is Bayern Munich. Their prime years in 2011-2015 was based on a


Calling for his sack on Monday after a ChL-exit we all thought was already set in stone before the first game was played. Though the prophecy has been realized, we were doing a lot better than anticipated I would say.

No expectations. No shame.

We have a better fecking team than Leizpig. Blind as a bat you are. It was a possibility to go out sure but expected it was never.

And showing out after winning your first two games it's absolute crap management. Needed 4 points ffs

 

[wolvored]

The mainstream media's blatant disregard for Ole and United is laughable. They want to see the club fall. After every negative scoreline, it's the same repetitive bullcrap of Ole out, Poch In, Man United in a crisis, Ole's Odds slashed as favorite to be sacked. It's sickening. The press will be creaming in their pants if Poch got the job.

I have no idea how the poor Nowergian sleeps at night after a defeat, the eagles are all out, ready to pick him off little by little until he has nothing left. It's just relentless, almost soul-destroying stuff.

Yet we see the likes of Arteta receive much fairer treatment (only now are the sack rumors doing the rounds). Guardiola is below Ole in the league, yet you don't see the pressure being up'ed on him.

There's a real nasty agenda against United in the media, and Ole get's treated badly by those responsible for pushing the headlines.

Last night was a damning blow, but it's not the end of the season. League form is getting very consistent and if we can beat City this weekend, perhaps it'll be the start of mounting a title challenge.

Ole In for me. It's a rocky road with plenty of bumps and stop-starts along the way, but at the end of the journey, Ole will have us back where we should be.

Regarding Arteta has he even done a year yet? Didnt he also win something? Ole has had 2 and were still no clearer what is ideals his tactics his structure, whatever you want to call it is. Obviously everybody wanted him to succeed as he is a legend and Utd manager, but why should he get a free ride when none of the other managers since Fergie did.

 

[Drz]

Why do we care for stats any way? We are out if the champions league after being top of the group in the first 4 games. He should be catapulted out of the club. He and his stupid incompetent staff.

I was just curious. I'm just as disappointed about the manor of our exit but oddly not that surprised. And the criticism levelled at Ole with regards to this is fair, even if the end-result does not surprise me that much (We barely made it into the competition so going out in a group where last year's semifinalists qualify in our stead is not that much of a surprising outcome).

 

[Lynty]

I just figured out why Ole doesnt get the sack. Its precisely because he is a PE teacher and there are no expectations put on him. Normally you get someone, a manager, a player and you have expectations. if they dont deliver, there are problems. Mourinho or any serious manager would have gotten the sack already.

Ole on the other hand is this Cinderella story as a manager, a nice guy, a club legend the fanbase wont really hate regardless and therefore fire him for what? For not being good enough? No one ever said he was. Not meeting expectations? No one ever had any.
As long as Ole is nice to everyone, a good yes man, there is no reason to fire him as there are no expectations at all.

Ole was expected to achieve Champions League football - he delivered, it doesn't matter how or when or in what style, his target was achieved

Directors would have given him targets to achieve this year, lets say top 3 and a trophy - very much still attainable

Past managers have been sacked after failing to achieve targets or obviously not going to achieve the set target.

So your post is pretty much nonsense. Or do honestly believe that a big business organization in a results driven environment will allow a manager at any level to operate without targets? When he fails to meet them, he'll be sacked, like his predecessors.

 

[Ali Dia]

It's the player's fault innit? oh and the board not backing him. He's only spent 300m

chelsea spent 300 million and aren’t running away with it. It’s not actually a guarantee of anything anymore. The organisation has been so broken that it took 300 million just to get us back to challenging for top 4. We need a proper team to kick on. Long term center forward, a dm with legs, a fecking right winger. Any manager would fail without these ingredients. Ole is succeeding despite all these handicaps and I feel he would do a lot better with real quality in those positions. What other top club has no competition for places? Rashford and martial have to start every game even when they are clearly out of form. A serious club would be finding solutions to these problems but here we are with the same old problems years later.

 

[Kaos]

He'll beat City on Saturday and his job will be safe for another month or so. Cue us putting in another disgraceful performance in a loss to mediocre opposition afterwards, only for him to salvage another win after that. Rinse and repeat.

Its tiresome at this point. Its clear we're not going to win anything substantial with Ole at the helm, yet the odd unlikely win he manages to salvage every now and then completely papers over the cracks and buys him more time.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He'll beat City on Saturday and his job will be safe for another month or so. Cue us putting in another disgraceful performance in a loss to mediocre opposition afterwards, only for him to salvage another win after that. Rinse and repeat.

Its tiresome at this point. Its clear we're not going to win anything substantial with Ole at the helm, yet the odd unlikely win he manages to salvage every now and then completely papers over the cracks and buys him more time.

Just like LVG pretty much. Although luckily we fired him in the end and got the cup so it was worth the suffering. Not sure it will be with Ole though.
We are never going to have such an easy way to win a cup.
West Ham, Everton , Palace and lower league sides.

 

[MattofManchester]

Honestly just google 'ole sack'

Why were you looking for Ole's sack?

 

[Water Melon]

I love some of the mental gymnastics on here. When we win games it is due to Ole, when we lose it is the shitty squad, Eddy and the Glazers. People were ecstatic early in CL saying that he is better than Tuchel and Nagelsmann, and now the same people will say that those two teams have better squads. RBL are where they are mainly thanks to Nagelsmann. Their squad costs a fraction of ours. Now watch the same posters spout the same shite if we lose to City. They will forget all their claims that Ole had Pep's number and will instead claim that we have a much worse squad. Now please tell me which top 10 EPL club would swap their manager for Ole? Would Leicester want him to replace Brendan? The utter stupidity of our Board is to let Ole learn his trade while managing one of the biggest club in the world, while potentially costing hundreds of millions. We collapse when it matters the most, we bottle it a couple of levels below Spurs under Poch.

 

[romufc]

I love some of the mental gymnastics on here. When we win games it is due to Ole, when we lose it is the shitty squad, Eddy and the Glazers. People were ecstatic early in CL saying that he is better than Tuchel and Nagelsmann, and now the same people will say that those two teams have better squads. RBL are where they are mainly thanks to Nagelsmann. Their squad costs a fraction of ours. Now watch the same posters spout the same shite if we lose to City. They will forget all their claims that Ole had Pep's number and will instead claim that we have a much worse squad. Now please tell me which top 10 EPL club would swap their manager for Ole? Would Leicester want him to replace Brendan? The utter stupidity of our Board is to let Ole learn his trade while managing one of the biggest club in the world, while potentially costing hundreds of millions. We collapse when it matters the most, we bottle it a couple of levels below Spurs under Poch.

Okay, you can also say that about Ed Woodward. What PL club would want Ed Woodward running their club?

It is clear that this is not just about the manager, although he is not up to the job, neither are the people above him because they cannot see it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Why were you looking for Ole's sack?

my wife better not see that search history

'Ole's sack'
'Ole's likes to come from behind'
[insert funny pun here]

 

[Water Melon]

Okay, you can also say that about Ed Woodward. What PL club would want Ed Woodward running their club?

It is clear that this is not just about the manager, although he is not up to the job, neither are the people above him because they cannot see it.

Agree regarding Woodward. Horrific CEO to have.

 

[Greck]

He'll beat City on Saturday and his job will be safe for another month or so. Cue us putting in another disgraceful performance in a loss to mediocre opposition afterwards, only for him to salvage another win after that. Rinse and repeat.

Its tiresome at this point. Its clear we're not going to win anything substantial with Ole at the helm, yet the odd unlikely win he manages to salvage every now and then completely papers over the cracks and buys him more time.

That's the worst thing. This penchant for getting results in high leverage situations don't seem to show up when trophies are on the line. This has to be the most depressing kind of game-raising

 

[romufc]

Agree regarding Woodward. Horrific CEO to have.

All this energy fans have against Ole, because alot of them dislike him.

If you were Ole, would you say no to your dream job? No.

Woodward is the one who selects the manager, yet it seems Woodward Out is only fashionable during the transfer window, every other time its the manager.

 

[Water Melon]

All this energy fans have against Ole, because alot of them dislike him.

If you were Ole, would you say no to your dream job? No.

Woodward is the one who selects the manager, yet it seems Woodward Out is only fashionable during the transfer window, every other time its the manager.

Do not agree with that. In fact, I am sure an absolute majority of United fans on here hate Eddy with passion for many reasons. I am not blaming Ole for taking the job, I am just saying that he is well below the par. Not expecting him to resign, just hoping that Eddy finally makes the call.

 

[BR7]

Ole, you have to effing leave. If you love Man Utd as you keep on claiming then leave.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

All this energy fans have against Ole, because alot of them dislike him.

If you were Ole, would you say no to your dream job? No.

Woodward is the one who selects the manager, yet it seems Woodward Out is only fashionable during the transfer window, every other time its the manager.

Why not both? I guarantee you virtually everyone who wants Ole out also wants Woodward out. It's not one or the other.

 

[BR7]

Oh yeah and take your fan boys with you

 

[OrcaFat]

I back Ole, but the tactics and selection was most definitely a problem last night. 3 at the back has worked fine before, but what the feck our wingbacks were doing being so narrow is an absolute mystery. A wingback should get chalk on his boots all game, but the way we lined up we might as well have started with 9 men

Also, starting Matic and McTomminay together in CM is begging for trouble. One is slower than molasses and the other one is a headless chicken most of the time. Have those two even started together this season? Trying it out in such an important game was beyond daft. Of course our choices were limited with Fred being banned and Pogba being an arse, but lining up in a more familiar formation and throwing in VdB and/or Mata there would have been much better.

We have a couple of entitled children on here who could not even praise Ole if he cured cancer and brought world peace, but fair should be fair. Last night was a big game and he completely made a mess of it.

Can’t argue with your logic the way it panned out but, you never know, if we’d set up in any one of the ways some have suggested it may have been even worse. For one thing, it’s less than a week since VDB had to be hooked at half time.

In any case, clearly not Ole’s finest hour, we can agree there.

Another thing I would add is that we never, even under SAF, were expected to beat the very top teams in Europe. We had a chance but we were rarely favourites. The present PSG team would fall into the elite bracket and a positive result would be heavily celebrated. Leipzig made the semis last year. SAF probably would have got us through that group but let’s not pretend it would have been easy and it’s not as if Ole was miles away. I really don’t think he should be getting the heat he’s getting.

 

[romufc]

Do not agree with that. In fact, I am sure an absolute majority of United fans on here hate Eddy with passion for many reasons. I am not blaming Ole for taking the job, I am just saying that he is well below the par. Not expecting him to resign, just hoping that Eddy finally makes the call.

If you were in a job and well below par, you're still going to try until you get sacked? Or will you resign? Which proves you are not good enough.

The club should have really realised he isnt good enough a long time ago, let him go on mutual terms.

He had a run of good results to earn the job, is that how the Manutd job will be given out in the future? Come on a trial do well and get the job?

No. this is a massive job, you have to earn the job. It is 100% on the board.

 

[MattofManchester]

my wife better not see that search history

'Ole's sack'
'Ole's likes to come from behind'
[insert funny pun here]

 

[Giggsy13]

Why is this DoF suggestion coming in place? I'm sorry but it takes a special level of ignorance to just take a punt on Ole as a DoF. Just get rid, he doesn't need to have a footballing role at the club that he's not even qualified for.

I never suggested we put him in the DOF box now but that should've been in consideration the first time around when his caretaker role was coming to an end. I'm all for getting rid of Ole now but the club will foolishly continue to back him.

 

[romufc]

Why not both? I guarantee you virtually everyone who wants Ole out also wants Woodward out. It's not one or the other.

Agreed, If Ed goes Ole will be gone. A competent person running this club would know straight away. You are bringing players who are on 200k a week, we need a manager that can make difficult calls.

Ole yesterday:

"You cannot feel sorry for yourself as a footballer"

20 seconds later

"We will feel sorry for ourselves tonight and go again on the weekend"

This is what we have become. a joke.

 

[Drz]

Manager	Played	W	D	L	GF	GA	Win %	Draw %	Lose %
Sir Alex Ferguson	1500	895	338	267	2769	1365	59.7%	22.5%	17.8%
Jose Mourinho	144	84	32	28	244	121	58.3%	22.2%	19.4%
Ole	108	60	21	27	Can't find	Can't find	55.6%	19.4%	25%
Louis van Gaal	103	54	25	24	158	98	52.4%	24.3%	23.3%
David Moyes	51	27	9	15	86	54	52.9%	17.6%	29.4%
Ole as permanent manager	89	47	18	24	Can't find	Can't find	52.8%	20.2%	27%

Ole's lose % is quite high, with other manager's we had more draws than losses. Also, that new manager bounce really skews the record a bit. He is not doing that well as a permanent manager.

Thanks for that. Shouldn't the new manager bounce thing be considered for the others as well? Well barring Moyes, who had no chance of being an improvement on his predecessor, that said I didn't feel the bounce lasted long under LvG either...
But irrespective of that, the stats make for some grim reading.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Here goes, He isn’t and never will be good enough to take this team to the next level. it's never going to happen, ever.

For some reason we have too many fans who can’t see the forest for the trees.
They think that because we win a fair amount of games then Ole must be good. They can’t seem to comprehend that winning 10 away in a row to the likes of Brighton, Newcastle and West Ham isn’t actually what defines you as a top manager especially if you scrounge through most of those games.

We have very good players, and most of the time very good football players will overcome inferior football players because of their individual quality. This is how football mostly works, how this is lost on so many United fans is baffling. This is why Tim Sherwood led Tottenham to 5th place. That is why Avram Grant came 2nd and got to a CL final.

Where we constantly fall short are the crunch games, our tactics and style of play. This is where a top manager makes the difference.
We have basically lost every single one of these under Ole, bar the giant fluke in Paris.
It’s where that 5% can make a difference, being able to identify an opposition weakness, setting your team up properly, making that defining change/sub etc.

Everyone knows we have no identifiable style of play and lack cohesion defensively and going forward, which is why we look poor even against rubbish sides. This is something the top coaches do not struggle with to the degree Ole has.

People will talk about not being backed in the summer but in all honesty I’m glad he wasn’t backed. He spent 150 million on James, Maguire and Bissaka. The lack of development and improvement in Wan Bissakas game from someone who just tackles well is really telling. He is the exact same player he was 14 months ago except he’s worse positionally.
James and Maguire haven’t improved either and actually all three appear to be digressing and are three of the most criticised players on here and by other fans yet half the people on here will tell you his signings have been astute.

Meanwhile Jurgen Klopp is turning Hull players into Robert Carlos. Guardiola tends to improve most attacking players although falls short on the defensive ones.
Then you’ve got Mourinho who is sharply turning Spurs into his ideal team and Lampard now has a much better squad to work with.
This is the level and standard we’re up against, and we’re going up against it with Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna who can’t tell between their arses and elbows.
Three of the greatest managers ever and this is our answer. This is not a fight we’re going to win if we tool up in this way.

 

[VP89]

I never suggested we put him in the DOF box now but that should've been in consideration the first time around when his caretaker role was coming to an end. I'm all for getting rid of Ole now but the club will foolishly continue to back him.

No, it should never ever be in consideration. He has shown no qualities to be considered for that role. It's a hugely influencial role that requires a specialist, it's not an ambassadorial role that ex players can just jump into for the kick of it.

The likes of VDS, Overmars fit into their roles not purely because they're just an ex player. They would have proven competence to be able to take on the remit. Ole hasn't done anything to suggest this. He wasted the entire Cardiff transfer budget, and you can argue he mis identified the center back we needed with Maguire, and Wan Bissaka isn't reflective of what Ole seems to identify with as a full back in his systems.

 

[Water Melon]

If you were in a job and well below par, you're still going to try until you get sacked? Or will you resign? Which proves you are not good enough.

The club should have really realised he isnt good enough a long time ago, let him go on mutual terms.

He had a run of good results to earn the job, is that how the Manutd job will be given out in the future? Come on a trial do well and get the job?

No. this is a massive job, you have to earn the job. It is 100% on the board.

I am not sure what are we even debating about. Is he below the par? Yes. Should he be replaced? Yes. Should Woody do it? Yes.

 

[Greck]

Forget about playing style, it was like Ole completely stopped working with this team after the first Leipzig game. The three losses that would follow were marred by controversial and incompetent coaching decisions. First was that Ba goal against Istanbul where no one stayed back for the corner, second loss was the Fred non-substitution. Yesterday was the last and final show of incompetence. yet people still wonder why Ole is cited as the weak link. What other manager so blatantly and consistently contributes to his team's losses with schoolboy errors.