Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[TheRedDevil2019]

Arteta has been in the job 11 months, and as you say, rumours are already doing the rounds just 3 months into his first full season. When did you want the rumours to start man?

Guardiola has won 2 league titles at City and has possibly the best CV in World football. He's also already qualified from his CL group.

They only started since the spur's defeat last weekend.

Arteta has been in the job 11 months, and as you say, rumours are already doing the rounds just 3 months into his first full season. When did you want the rumours to start man?

Guardiola has won 2 league titles at City and has possibly the best CV in World football. He's also already qualified from his CL group.

That's my point, the rumors only started last weekend. Ole had a bad start to the season and the sack articles were out from day 1.

Which makes it even more impressive that Ole is above him in the prem....

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

They only started since the spur's defeat last weekend.

That's my point, the rumors only started last weekend. Ole had a bad start to the season and the sack articles were out from day 1.

Which makes it even more impressive that Ole is above him in the prem....

Are you playing stupid? Ole was starting his second full season, he'd been in the job 21 months. Arteta was starting his first full season.

You expect rumours of the sack to start on a manager 1 game into his first season?

 

[Lynty]

Have people really been looking forward to our games this season?

I have

- Moyes shell shocked me on the back of Fergie's reign. Felt like I was being assaulted.
- LVG was tedious but I still watched as he was obviously trying to implement a style and I was curious to see if it would ever click. It helped is was a very entertaining man
- Jose developed such an aura of negativity in his tactics, demeaner, comments, transfer plan - I honestly only watched us if there was nothing else to do
- Ole, I've been looking forward to each match. He's created an exciting team on paper, and there's been many times it's been evident on the field. I'm still enjoying it (though I was frothing at the mouth that Fred came back out at half time last week)

 

[GazTheLegend]

Says "it's in our DNA to attack"

• Plays 5 at the back
• Includes two average left backs
• Plays two defensive midfielders

If we went toe to toe with Leipzig we'd beat them, Ole was insanely cautious and got found out.

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

Are you playing stupid? Ole was starting his second full season, he'd been in the job 21 months. Arteta was starting his first full season.

You expect rumours of the sack to start on a manager 1 game into his first season?

Of course not, I expected them to begin a few games back though. From the opening MD loss, people have been calling for Ole's head on a spike, many of those in the media and on here.

The treatment is appalling. You can try and justify that all you want, but Ole outers and parts of the media are literally trying to force him out of the club.

You're make excuses for Arteta, citing 11months into the job. That didn't stop many of you hounding Ole last season, when we had a WORSER start to the prem than this season. So again, I will say there's a huge agenda against Ole which many of you are too blinkered to even acknowledge. It's double standards at its finest.

 

[dove]

Interesting, what's your source? Would be like to see what his win rate and draw rate is compared to the previous managers as well.

Manager	Played	W	D	L	GF	GA	Win %	Draw %	Lose %
Sir Alex Ferguson	1500	895	338	267	2769	1365	59.7%	22.5%	17.8%
Jose Mourinho	144	84	32	28	244	121	58.3%	22.2%	19.4%
Ole	108	60	21	27	Can't find	Can't find	55.6%	19.4%	25%
Louis van Gaal	103	54	25	24	158	98	52.4%	24.3%	23.3%
David Moyes	51	27	9	15	86	54	52.9%	17.6%	29.4%
Ole as permanent manager	89	47	18	24	Can't find	Can't find	52.8%	20.2%	27%

Ole's lose % is quite high, with other manager's we had more draws than losses. Also, that new manager bounce really skews the record a bit. He is not doing that well as a permanent manager.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Of course not, I expected them to begin a few games back though.

on matchweek 5 they were 5th.

So what? You expected the rumours of the sack for a manager starting his first season to start the very second that form turned? It's 6 games since they started dropping, and the rumours are up and running.

Try thinking in future.

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

on matchweek 5 they were 5th.

So what? You expected the rumours of the sack for a manager starting his first season to start the very second that form turned? It's 6 games since they started dropping, and the rumours are up and running.

Try thinking in future.

It happens with Ole after 1 loss. So why not? Or is that not the new norm?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You're make excuses for Arteta, citing 11months into the job. That didn't stop many of you hounding Ole last season, when we had a WORSER start to the prem than this season. So again, I will say there's a huge agenda against Ole which many of you are too blinkered to even acknowledge. It's double standards at its finest.

When did the rumours about Ole start in his first full season? About 3 months in right?

And when are they starting about Arteta? about 3 months in right.

Wanna know another funny coincidence? After 11 games (3 months last season) we had 13 points and the rumours began, guess how many points Arteta has now after 11 games?

come on @TheRedDevil2019, do keep up.

 

[Greck]

Never cared much for the poll but would like to see the current split. The least the Liverpool supporting kunts could have done before getting banned was have the decency to undo their votes

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The day an actual top manager leads us to the league is the day people will see how unfit Ole was for the job.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

They only started since the spur's defeat last weekend.


That's my point, the rumors only started last weekend. Ole had a bad start to the season and the sack articles were out from day 1.

Which makes it even more impressive that Ole is above him in the prem....

Probably has something to do with the fact that Ole has managed for 10 years and Arteta landed his first gig.

 

[HowYouDoin]

I just figured out why Ole doesnt get the sack. Its precisely because he is a PE teacher and there are no expectations put on him. Normally you get someone, a manager, a player and you have expectations. if they dont deliver, there are problems. Mourinho or any serious manager would have gotten the sack already.

Ole on the other hand is this Cinderella story as a manager, a nice guy, a club legend the fanbase wont really hate regardless and therefore fire him for what? For not being good enough? No one ever said he was. Not meeting expectations? No one ever had any.
As long as Ole is nice to everyone, a good yes man, there is no reason to fire him as there are no expectations at all.

 

[DRJosh]

As I’ve said in a previous thread, without proper coaching, we will never dominate matches.

At the moment we dominate specific moments or passages of play but rarely a whole match. Such an approach isn’t sustainable at all nor conducive to winning titles. It’s crystal clear to me that Ole’s time is up. I don’t understand why this is even a debate!

 

[HowYouDoin]

The day an actual top manager leads us to the league is the day people will see how unfit Ole was for the job.

Well duh. Like Arsene Wenger said, we are not coached at all.
And I mean whats the surprise. Ole isnt Premier League level.
Imagine any other position at the club being occupied by a non Premier League level person.
Say our left back or our striker. If we just signed a random striker from Cardiff or Molde, we would definitely see the difference once we replaced that person with someone that the likes of Real Madrid would want.

Same story here. Real Madrid want Pochettino. Whereas Ole...he is Molde/Cardiff. More Molde than Cardiff. Cardiff was too big for him.

So ya of course we will see the noticeable difference once we have a real manager.

 

[Idxomer]

As I’ve said in a previous thread, without proper coaching, we will never dominate matches.

At the moment we dominate specific moments or passages of play but rarely a whole match. Such an approach isn’t sustainable at all nor conducive to winning titles. It’s crystal clear to me that Ole’s time is up. I don’t understand why this is even a debate!

The only game we fully dominated this season was against Newcastle and they have the most outdated coach in the league.

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

When did the rumours about Ole start in his first full season? About 3 months in right?

And when are they starting about Arteta? about 3 months in right.

Wanna know another funny conicidence? After 11 games (3 months last season) we had 13 points and the rumours began, guess how many points Arteta has now after 13 games?

come on @TheRedDevil2019, do keep up.

When did the rumours about Ole start in his first full season? About 3 months in right?

And when are they starting about Arteta? about 3 months in right.

Wanna know another funny coincidence? After 11 games (3 months last season) we had 13 points and the rumours began, guess how many points Arteta has now after 11 games?

come on @TheRedDevil2019, do keep up.

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Where are these articles? I haven’t seen any around. Please link some, I need something to cling on to some hope that this is almost over, because all experience with Woody and friends tells me that this is far from over.

Honestly just google 'ole sack'
Sadly this is what the 3rd time any other coach would have been sacked. The dismal run end of his first season, woeful start of his second and now would have seen any other coach binned but no doubt he will hang on.

 

[HowYouDoin]

As I’ve said in a previous thread, without proper coaching, we will never dominate matches.

At the moment we dominate specific moments or passages of play but rarely a whole match. Such an approach isn’t sustainable at all nor conducive to winning titles. It’s crystal clear to me that Ole’s time is up. I don’t understand why this is even a debate!

Its a debate because we are a commercial entity led by accountants and corporate stooges and not a serious football club.

 

[VP89]

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

There is no defence for Arteta. Stop making up a stupid narrative - one manager has been in his role longer than another and therefore is held to deliver results sooner.

Slamming Ole in his first 3 seasons can be ignored with him needing time. Slamming him now is fully justified. He's just had another year for fecksake. Give your head a wobble.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

Who's defending Arteta? If you want a defence there's obviously this.

In his first Summer he got to spend €86m, Ole spent €227m.

Yet by game 11 both in their first full seasons had just 13 points, and rumours were rightfully circulating that both might get the sack. Obviously it was compounded on Ole after being sooooooo heavily backed with €141m more than Arteta.

I'm not defending Arteta one bit, if I was an Arsenal fan I'd be asking serious questions about his position.

 

[HowYouDoin]

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

Arteta studied under Pep. He does have some real managerial experience at a top level and a different pedigree. Its reasonable to expect more from him because that counts for something.

Ole, we practically literally picked him up off the streets.
Molde and a brief unsuccessful stint at Cardiff?
Its a joke.
Its a cinderella story thats run its course.

 

[romufc]

Who's defending Arteta? If you want a defence there's obviously this.

In his first Summer he got to spend €86m, Ole spent €227m.

Yet by game 11 both in their first full seasons had just 13 points, and rumours were rightfully circulating that both might get the sack. Obviously it was compounded on Ole after being sooooooo heavily backed with €141m more than Arteta.

I'm not defending Arteta one bit, if I was an Arsenal fan I'd be asking serious questions about his position.

Can you please list the players that totalled our spend in his first summer to 227m?

Also he got rid of players too, but I guess that dont count right? as it doesnt suit your narrative?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild

I’ve heard this before here so please do go deeper, explain a rebuild to me so I know when a manager can be questioned.
• How long does it take?
• How much money does it take?
• Does the manager stay regardless or do we have any targets?
• Do we ignore all massive mistakes like last night?

Finally, should every manager at every club be given these terms? And, are they always successful?

I mean, I know Liverpool were the kings of the rebuild for 20 years:

Souness - 3 years
Roy Evans - 4-5 years
Houllier - 5-6 years
Rafa - 6 years

Why didn't it work for them @TheRedDevil2019 ? What did they do wrong?


Please, I want to be educated so I’m all ears.

 

[VP89]

Can you please list the players that totalled our spend in his first summer to 227m?

Also he got rid of players too, but I guess that dont count right? as it doesnt suit your narrative?

Here we go with a net spend debate again. How much a player is bought and sold for is not down to him so let's park figures.

Ultimately he turfed out players unsuited to his style and got 3 new defenders in the back line, a new central midfielder, striker and he brought in a winger from Leeds.

The quality at his disposal is greater than a lot of the sides he struggles against and it occurs much to frequently. This season alone we can point to Southampton, Brighton, West Ham and Leipzig as standalone examples where we had to chase the game.

This is not to say no manager struggles with lesser oppositions but more that the struggles Ole faces are happening far more frequently. He can't have this many bad games as a Manchester United manager, its getting beyond a joke at this stage at how many chronic mistakes he's getting away with. Ultimately he will get bailed out a few times by sheer individual brilliance but that's not what he's employed for. He's employed to make the team greater than a sum of its parts, which it isn't.

 

[StamsShinyHead]

This is not to say no manager struggles with lesser oppositions but more that the struggles Ole faces are happening far more frequently. He can't have this many bad games as a Manchester United manager, its getting beyond a joke at this stage at how many chronic mistakes he's getting away with.

This is my issue here. Everyone and their dog could see that Fred was going to be sent off last week, but he didn't make that substitute which could've saved us a lot of headaches. I still don't see a cohesive idea of what this team is meant to be at the moment. Obviously a legend of the club, but I think he's had long enough. We've been caught out too much by his tactical naivety, and it'll cost us more in the future if we don't act soon.

 

[romufc]

Here we go with a net spend debate again. How much a player is bought and sold for is not down to him so let's park figures.

Ultimately he turfed out players unsuited to his style and got 3 new defenders in the back line, a new central midfielder, striker and he brought in a winger from Leeds.

The quality at his disposal is greater than a lot of the sides he struggles against and it occurs much to frequently. This season alone we can point to Southampton, Brighton, West Ham and Leipzig as standalone examples.

This is not to say no manager struggles with lesser oppositions but more that the struggles Ole faces are happening far more frequently. He can't have this many bad games as a Manchester United manager, its getting beyond a joke at this stage at how many chronic mistakes he's getting away with.

Was I the one to bring that up?

I am Ole out in terms of we can get a manager who can get better out the current group of players.

However; I am not Ole out to the fact I will make up figures to suit the narrative.

I agree with you, its not the struggling against lesser teams, its the fact that we concede so many chances, 1/2 chances in games, it will always be an issue. We tried to go compact but compact means defend from the front not just sit with line of 5.

Ole has shown that he can do well as an underdog however; as a Manutd manager you need to go into games to dominate. The crucial games, we always lose out on.

People will point to PSG, Leipzig, CIty games as he is tactically really good, none of those games did we go in as favourites, Ole thrives as an underdog. This cannot be accepted.

 

[the chameleon]

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

Who cares about Arteta! This is about Ole. The reality is that Ole has taken us as far as he can. We will always be yo-yoing between a false dawn and bad runs with him. Relying on individual brilliance to paper over his tactical incompetencies. Out of all the post-Ferguson managers, he has the best set of players on paper. With or without Ole, these players will have good games and get results. Also he don't tell me he hasn't been backed. Barring Bruno, all his signings have been average.

We've become like the United of the 80s (you could always rely on us to beat a top team thanks to a few individuals only to get beaten by relegation fodder the next game).

It's now time to get a new coach to get us to the next level. I've voted Ole out for a while now. Whether we beat Liverpool 3-0 or lose 0-3 to Hull. I'll be Ole out. Most of us aren't knee-jerkers. We are genuine fans who want to see the club win things. Not loyalists to individuals.

 

[SportingCP96]

While this might be true for some I chat stress enough just how much more I’ve enjoyed watching this team on a personal level under Ole. That’s worth it’s weight in gold for me. It might not be enough but I’d rather watch another 10 years of this than another year of Mourinho.

It’s all opinions in the end of the day and I respect yours.

Do you think Spurs would swapJose with Ole though?

I say that because I do agree his football at United was bleak but I also feel like it’s because the players never bought into it where as the Spurs players are all in on what Jose is doing and they are playing well because of it.

Makes me wonder if divas like Pogba and stuff are part of the blame for the short comings of Jose at United.

 

[VP89]

Was I the one to bring that up?

I am Ole out in terms of we can get a manager who can get better out the current group of players.

However; I am not Ole out to the fact I will make up figures to suit the narrative.

I agree with you, its not the struggling against lesser teams, its the fact that we concede so many chances, 1/2 chances in games, it will always be an issue. We tried to go compact but compact means defend from the front not just sit with line of 5.

Ole has shown that he can do well as an underdog however; as a Manutd manager you need to go into games to dominate. The crucial games, we always lose out on.

People will point to PSG, Leipzig, CIty games as he is tactically really good, none of those games did we go in as favourites, Ole thrives as an underdog. This cannot be accepted.

Yeah, that's fair enough.

I think even if we park sheer numbers and ins/outs and just evaluate the quality he has to his disposal coupled with the school boy errors he makes during games and in his team selection - the proof is in the pudding. Even Lampard looks more streetwise at this stage which I didn't even think was the case last year.

 

[dove]

So why the defense of Arteta but not Solksjaer? Oh, that's right because he's only in his first full season. Yet it didn't stop you and many others slamming Ole last season. Which proves my point, you're full of double standards.
Come on @Regulus Arcturus Black , do keep up.

These forums are full of kneejerkers that have no understanding of a rebuild and expect glory and success like it's a god-given right.

We want Arteta staying at Arsenal for forever just like all oppo fans want Ole staying with us for forever too. Make your best guess why

 

[romufc]

Yeah, that's fair enough.

I think even if we park sheer numbers and ins/outs and just evaluate the quality he has to his disposal coupled with the school boy errors he makes during games and in his team selection - the proof is in the pudding. Even Lampard looks more streetwise at this stage which I didn't even think was the case last year.

We all had doubt on Lampard last season due to naive tactics in certain games. This season he learnt, came to OT and took the draw because he knew hoe dangerous our counter attack is, did the same against Spurs.

You can see he learns from games. What did Ole learn from the first Leipzig game? Nothing. Leipzig like to move the ball around in midfield and switch the play, so why we playing 2 midfielders against their 4? They had no striker.

Why is AWB so narrow? has he not seen that Anjelino is their top scorer? This is basic management, in smaller clubs you get away with it "better opposition beat us"

At United, you cannot have such excuses.

How many times in the last year do we get exposed on the back post? Every single game. We are lucky that teams dont punish us.

AWB makes the same mistakes over and over again. The manager makes the same mistake over and over again.

He does not learn.

 

[Giggsy13]

The club really messed it up with the Ole hire and should’ve brought him on as the DOF rather than manager. He has tried to introduce standards in recruiting and bringing in the right players to the club but he just doesn’t know how to use them. Any competent club would realize this.

Also it’s clear our club have very low standards for Ole when you consider Zidane might be facing the sack if Madrid don’t qualify to the knockout stages today.

 

[Robbie Boy]

'Points since Bruno joined' is genuinely one of the most hilarious metrics I've ever seen, for anything, ever.

Lads, we won the 'most points since Bruno joined' league. Take that Liverpool with your irrelevant PL title and hipster manager. Just listen to yourselves ffs, the excuses are embarrassing.

 

[Enigma_87]

'Points since Bruno joined' is genuinely one of the most hilarious metrics I've ever seen for anything, ever.

Lads, we won the 'most points since Bruno joined' league. Take that Liverpool with your irrelevant PL title and hipster manager. Just listen to yourselves ffs, the excuses are embarrassing.

It's the RAWK Boom Bust Cycle. Wait until we buy another player so we can reset the stats.

 

[VP89]

The club really messed it up with the Ole hire and should’ve brought him on as the DOF rather than manager. He has tried to introduce standards in recruiting and bringing in the right players to the club but he just doesn’t know how to use them. Any competent club would realize this.

Also it’s clear our club have very low standards for Ole when you consider Zidane might be facing the sack if Madrid don’t qualify to the knockout stages today.

Why is this DoF suggestion coming in place? I'm sorry but it takes a special level of ignorance to just take a punt on Ole as a DoF. Just get rid, he doesn't need to have a footballing role at the club that he's not even qualified for.

 

[romufc]

It was funny yesterday when Ole was screaming pass it quicker.

None of our back 6 pass the ball quick.

Maguire, Lindelof hold the ball for an age and even their passes are so slow, where is the zip?
Shaw and AWB, have no idea how to pass forward, always wait until someone comes to them and pass to the CB. Shaw is one of the most frustrating players on the ball, there is an early ball into the wings and he never plays it.
Matic - slow af and again takes an age to pass.

Leipzig were popping the ball, one touch, fast passing.

 

[Skills]

It's the RAWK Boom Bust Cycle. Wait until we buy another player so we can reset the stats.

Pretty sure Liverpool fans were harping on about their points since Coutinho joined metric not long ago. Good times.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Why is this DoF suggestion coming in place? I'm sorry but it takes a special level of ignorance to just take a punt on Ole as a DoF. Just get rid, he doesn't need to have a footballing role at the club that he's not even qualified for.

It's madness. All things considered, his signings have been average bar Bruno. James and Ighalo below average.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Don't be silly. The majority of the CAF were screaming for us to be chasing the PL rather than going for trophies in Europe in the last couple of years, and here we are out of ChL, which can hopefully be a gift in disguise in terms of energy for the rest of the season where the Premier League looks quite open and up for a good challenge. The shifted focus on PL games can hopefully make us at least have a good crack at the title race.

Title race? And I'm the silly one?