Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[romufc]

I'm sure everybody would have been pretty happy with this position at the start of the season, yet once again the goalposts are moved to suit the daily Outer narrative.

Ole Outers will always move their narrative. Only finish 3rd cause of a poor league, only finish 3rd cause of injuries.

Other teams have better managers... well why is their team so poor then? If a PE teacher can get us 3rd, why arent so called great managers doing better?

We are going into the final game week and have a good chance of qualifying, you would have taken that when the groups came out.

 

[AshRK]

Ole Outers will always move their narrative. Only finish 3rd cause of a poor league, only finish 3rd cause of injuries.

Other teams have better managers... well why is their team so poor then? If a PE teacher can get us 3rd, why arent so called great managers doing better?

We are going into the final game week and have a good chance of qualifying, you would have taken that when the groups came out.

Also funny how players always seem to get free pass. So when we win it is because of individual brilliance well then if they miss easy chances why shouldn't they take the blame.

I keep on saying we can sack Ole today but the way our fans protect some players has to stop. We will always be found out eventually irrespective of who the manager is.

 

[GBBQ]

Ole Outers will always move their narrative. Only finish 3rd cause of a poor league, only finish 3rd cause of injuries.

Other teams have better managers... well why is their team so poor then? If a PE teacher can get us 3rd, why arent so called great managers doing better?

We are going into the final game week and have a good chance of qualifying, you would have taken that when the groups came out.

Ole might not be a bad manager but is he good enough is the question, we need elite and if it was anyone other than a club legend we'd all be unified in wanting them gone.

We've obviously enjoyed some good results under him and he's brought in some great players but he's gone from pole position in the group to needing to not lose in Germany on the final day to ensure progression. Yes we might have taken being in with a shout on matchday 6 before the group considering the strength of our opponents but part of that would have assumed we had beaten Baseksehir home and away and maybe picked up a draw or 2 in the other matches.

Instead we have two really poor tactical decisions (Fred last night and the break away goal Basaksehir) that have us odds against progressing now. Instead of a dead rubber match days before the Manchester Derby where we could rest Bruno and Cavani we've to go out and win now.

 

[romufc]

Also funny how players always seem to get free pass. So when we win it is because of individual brilliance well then if they miss easy chances why shouldn't they take the blame.

I keep on saying we can sack Ole today but the way our fans protect some players has to stop. We will always be found out eventually irrespective of who the manager is.

Exactly, I get the Fred incident but he took ownership saying he should have taken him off.

However; how did we get the tactics wrong? how did he get team selection wrong?

Everyone just wants someone new to get excited for 6 months before the same issues appear rather than realising things have changed in recent weeks.

Its not like PSG ripped us apart and DDG make 6/7 world class saves to keep us in the game. Martial had 2 guilt edge chances to score a goal. Their winner was a bit of luck too.

 

[AshRK]

Ole might not be a bad manager but is he good enough is the question, we need elite and if it was anyone other than a club legend we'd all be unified in wanting them gone.

We've obviously enjoyed some good results under him and he's brought in some great players but he's gone from pole position in the group to needing to not lose in Germany on the final day to ensure progression. Yes we might have taken being in with a shout on matchday 6 before the group considering the strength of our opponents but part of that would have assumed we had beaten Baseksehir home and away and maybe picked up a draw or 2 in the other matches.

Instead we have two really poor tactical decisions (Fred last night and the break away goal Basaksehir) that have us odds against progressing now. Instead of a dead rubber match days before the Manchester Derby where we could rest Bruno and Cavani we've to go out and win now.

The break away goal was not due to Ole. So you think Ole will say to not keep the shape. If we regularly conceded such stupid goals then yes Ole has to take the blame but that was a one off goal due to players' naivety. Even Leipzig yesterday could have drawn or lost to them but thanks to Istanbul's keeper they got the win. Shit happens.

 

[romufc]

Ole might not be a bad manager but is he good enough is the question, we need elite and if it was anyone other than a club legend we'd all be unified in wanting them gone.

We've obviously enjoyed some good results under him and he's brought in some great players but he's gone from pole position in the group to needing to not lose in Germany on the final day to ensure progression. Yes we might have taken being in with a shout on matchday 6 before the group considering the strength of our opponents but part of that would have assumed we had beaten Baseksehir home and away and maybe picked up a draw or 2 in the other matches.

Instead we have two really poor tactical decisions (Fred last night and the break away goal Basaksehir) that have us odds against progressing now. Instead of a dead rubber match days before the Manchester Derby where we could rest Bruno and Cavani we've to go out and win now.

I agree, he may not be an elite manager but we also have to remember we had an elite manager here before him and he took us to Sevilla and made United fans feel small with his comments after.

I am not saying don't be Ole out, be pragmatic about it. Games like yesterday are not the reasons you get on a manager. Its the games v Istanbul and Arsenal.

We can all blame Ole, he told Fred to calm down which he did and it was his touch which resulted in the red card, not a tactical foul or anything.

The fans are having a go at Ole for not taking Fred off saying that is stupid and naive, how many times did Fergie keep Scholes on when he was on a yellow? Did we call him to be sacked because of that?

 

[Leftback99]

Reading the match thread back there are very few posts saying take Fred off between half time and the 70th minute. More saying how well he was playing.

 

[AshRK]

I agree, he may not be an elite manager but we also have to remember we had an elite manager here before him and he took us to Sevilla and made United fans feel small with his comments after.

I am not saying don't be Ole out, be pragmatic about it. Games like yesterday are not the reasons you get on a manager. Its the games v Istanbul and Arsenal.

We can all blame Ole, he told Fred to calm down which he did and it was his touch which resulted in the red card, not a tactical foul or anything.

The fans are having a go at Ole for not taking Fred off saying that is stupid and naive, how many times did Fergie keep Scholes on when he was on a yellow? Did we call him to be sacked because of that?

I feel it's a built up frustration for fans for Ole. They all have made up their minds and want him gone asap. So one poor result and they just jump on him. Even of Ole is to win a trophy or two these fans will be here to stay and keep changing the goal post.

I know Ole's flaws and have my doubts regarding him but I will always look at his time here as the manager fondly, much more than Jose's and Van gaal's.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Not even Moyes would have said that

 

[Water Melon]

I feel it's a built up frustration for fans for Ole. They all have made up their minds and want him gone asap. So one poor result and they just jump on him. Even of Ole is to win a trophy or two these fans will be here to stay and keep changing the goal post.

I know Ole's flaws and have my doubts regarding him but I will always look at his time here as the manager fondly, much more than Jose's and Van gaal's.

It is not one poor result. Ole has been here for 2 years and his tenure can be described as inconsistent. By the way he is yet to win a trophy with us unlike Van Gaal or Jose.

 

[Grande]

Bad luck!

You easily had enough chances and played well enough to draw if not win that. I think it's very easy with hindsight and quite harsh to say everyone knew Fred should have come off at half time, I'm sure if he had and you'd lost then Ole would have taken a hammering for that as well. Cavani and Martial both came very close and on another night you'd be walking away with the right result. I thought you looked the better team for a lot of the game especially the second half upto the sending off and even after that you played some quick attacking football. To be fair Fred should have been given a straight red in the first half and certainly should not have got a yellow for that tackle in the second, but that's football.

If I were to criticise Ole, I think the only fair thing to get him on was not trying to contain the game a bit earlier, instead I think you had the mindset to keep pushing for that second goal, once you conceded and went down to 10 men at pretty much the same time, that chance was lost and he had to gamble hence Pogba, VdB, Greenwood and Ighalo. Maybe Matic could have come on for Fred at the hour mark to manage the game a bit better, but again hindsight makes decisions like this very easy!

This.

 

[AshRK]

It is not one poor result. Ole has been here for 2 years and his tenure can be described as inconsistent. By the way he is yet to win a trophy with us unlike Van Gaal or Jose.

Trophy wise Van gaal and Jose may be remembered morw but personally football wise I enjoy our football more under Ole.

 

[Giggsyking]

What makes you think we won’t avoid defeat with 11 v 11 if we can’t even put away a sitter into goal?

simple mathematics, you have 11 players, higher chance to create chances, higher chance to score. I cant see the point of discussing it to be honest. It was pure idiocy of him to let Fred on the pitch. Viasat pundits already in half time said Fred is on an orange card (referring to the fact he is 1 small step away from a red card) and they were sure he was going to take him off.

 

[Bilbo]

Ole might not be a bad manager but is he good enough is the question

Its a question that is going to be held over every United manager until we are winning titles or CLs again.

What I saw last night is a further progression of this team. We been led to expect in big games over the last few seasons is a team that will sit back and hope to get something on the break, because that's really been our best chance of winning. We don't win midfield battles and we don't dictate the game. We don't go toe to toe with these teams ever, and even when we win those games it still has a sense of smash and grab about it.

Witness the performance in those two PSG games 2 years ago compared to the latest 2. Our team has improved significantly. Theres no doubt in my mind about that.

So yes, the question marks over Ole will remain until he delivers something massive because ultimately that is our expectation, but we can evaluate him based on what he has done so far and this team that we now have are light years ahead of what he inherited in pretty much every conceivable way.

 

[Giggsyking]

Not even Moyes would have said that

How stupid is this? is he for real? The player was walking back to his goal and his heel was pointing to our goal, so it does not matter how big his shoes are ffs it will only be bigger in the other (onside) direction. Stupid.

 

[Giggsyking]

Bad luck!

You easily had enough chances and played well enough to draw if not win that. I think it's very easy with hindsight and quite harsh to say everyone knew Fred should have come off at half time, I'm sure if he had and you'd lost then Ole would have taken a hammering for that as well. Cavani and Martial both came very close and on another night you'd be walking away with the right result. I thought you looked the better team for a lot of the game especially the second half upto the sending off and even after that you played some quick attacking football. To be fair Fred should have been given a straight red in the first half and certainly should not have got a yellow for that tackle in the second, but that's football.

If I were to criticise Ole, I think the only fair thing to get him on was not trying to contain the game a bit earlier, instead I think you had the mindset to keep pushing for that second goal, once you conceded and went down to 10 men at pretty much the same time, that chance was lost and he had to gamble hence Pogba, VdB, Greenwood and Ighalo. Maybe Matic could have come on for Fred at the hour mark to manage the game a bit better, but again hindsight makes decisions like this very easy!

No one would have done that. Absolutely no one.

 

[Water Melon]

Trophy wise Van gaal and Jose may be remembered morw but personally football wise I enjoy our football more under Ole.

Arsenal may have enjoyed their football style under Wenger, but it is trophies that count at the end of the day. Same applies to all big clubs Bayern, Real, Barca, Juve etc. Also, Ole is yet to achieve anything remotely close to what LvG and Jose have.

 

[AshRK]

Arsenal may have enjoyed their football style under Wenger, but it is trophies that count at the end of the day. Same applies to all big clubs Bayern, Real, Barca, Juve etc. Also, Ole is yet to achieve anything remotely close to what LvG and Jose have.

Yes that is true. Like I said for trophies Jose and van gaal so far will be remembered more. I was just talking about our football in general.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

simple mathematics, you have 11 players, higher chance to create chances, higher chance to score. I cant see the point of discussing it to be honest. It was pure idiocy of him to let Fred on the pitch. Viasat pundits already in half time said Fred is on an orange card (referring to the fact he is 1 small step away from a red card) and they were sure he was going to take him off.

But football isn’t simple mathematic. You don’t know what’s going to happen if it’s 11 v 11 because we were already 2-1 down when it was 11 v 11.

But what we know is that we had high quality chances to make the 2-1 lead yesterday if our attackers can finish their chances. Not the first time that our attackers let us down in important game. It also happened against Sevilla last season.

 

[AshRK]

No one would have done that. Absolutely no one.

Are you sure? People would have blamed Ole for Martial's miss

 

[Infra-red]

How stupid is this? is he for real? The player was walking back to his goal and his heel was pointing to our goal, so it does not matter how big his shoes are ffs it will only be bigger in the other (onside) direction. Stupid.

It's best not to pay too much attention to Ole's public utterances.

 

[RonaldoVII]

How stupid is this? is he for real? The player was walking back to his goal and his heel was pointing to our goal, so it does not matter how big his shoes are ffs it will only be bigger in the other (onside) direction. Stupid.

It was tongue in cheek. Why take it so literally?

 

[Volumiza]

I‘m Ole out ....and have been since the second he signed

To be against a manger from the second he signed is pretty stupid though isn't it? He's a proper legend and did amazingly well when he dropped in to rescue us post Jose.

 

[devilish]

Can the mods please tag this user with such a brilliant statement . You really think Ole is the fourth best manager in world football? I have seen some horrible post and a whole lot of delusional post, but this one has to be up there.

I am an Ole out myself but you're being an arse here. He didn't say that

 

[devilish]

To be against a manger from the second he signed is pretty stupid though isn't it? He's a proper legend and did amazingly well when he dropped in to rescue us post Jose.

I agree

 

[romufc]

I feel it's a built up frustration for fans for Ole. They all have made up their minds and want him gone asap. So one poor result and they just jump on him. Even of Ole is to win a trophy or two these fans will be here to stay and keep changing the goal post.

I know Ole's flaws and have my doubts regarding him but I will always look at his time here as the manager fondly, much more than Jose's and Van gaal's.

Alot of those fans have said I dont care if he wins the PL or CL, they still want him gone. This shows that they are not here for the team.

Maybe he cannot win us the league and Cl, we had two tried and tested managers and yet our squad is in better shape then when they were manager?

We had a top manager in Jose who stunk out the place with comments like, Sevilla are better in Europe than Manutd?

 

[Volumiza]

Alot of those fans have said I dont care if he wins the PL or CL, they still want him gone. This shows that they are not here for the team.

That's always what I can never understand. Fans who are SO devoted to United wanting us to lose just to prove their point.

Maybe he cannot win us the league and Cl, we had two tried and tested managers and yet our squad is in better shape then when they were manager?

100% - and for large parts of the game last night we were totally competitive.

 

[romufc]

That's always what I can never understand. Fans who are SO devoted to United wanting us to lose just to prove their point.



100% - and for large parts of the game last night we were totally competitive.

Literally wanting a bad result, I want Ole to do really well and prove everyone wrong.

When was the last time we were this competitive in a CL game? We had Greenwood, Pogba, VDB coming on from the bench... last time we had Fellaini coming of the bench.

In such games, you can lose the game against PSG when they have such top quality players.

 

[VP89]

Not even Moyes would have said that

Context really matters. He was saying the game was decided by things that went against us after we got away with the Fred incident. I.e getting a yellow from VAR (it's red or nothing which is odd), the second goal was just pinball rather than us getting cut open, Cavani just missing his moment, etc. I don't think he shied away from responsibility though. He did say Fred was lucky to not see red, and he did agree he probably should have taken him off, but they needed his presence too and he was advised to keep on his feet.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Context really matters. He was saying the game was decided by things that went against us after we got away with the Fred incident. I.e getting a yellow from VAR (it's red or nothing which is odd), the second goal was just pinball rather than us getting cut open, Cavani just missing his moment, etc. I don't think he shied away from responsibility though. He did say Fred was lucky to not see red, and he did agree he probably should have taken him off, but they needed his presence too and he was advised to keep on his feet.

Is this the greatest plot twist in history. Crazy character development

 

[Volumiza]

Literally wanting a bad result, I want Ole to do really well and prove everyone wrong.

I'm neither Ole in nor Ole out - I flip flop all the time but to think there is this animosity when a) we're not doing terribly b) actually got a great squad c) managed by one of our own is absolutely nuts.

When was the last time we were this competitive in a CL game? We had Greenwood, Pogba, VDB coming on from the bench... last time we had Fellaini coming of the bench.

Not for years. It's ok to judge properly, I think Ole made some poor decisions last night but also we were literally slugging away with PSG for large parts of the game and until Fred got sent off I was actually enjoying the match. It was exciting. Feeling that in Europe is priceless regardless of your feelings towards Ole. Just fecking enjoy it.

In such games, you can lose the game against PSG when they have such top quality players.

I said it earlier, bigger name managers than Ole have had results worse than that in the past.

 

[Superden]

rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat......

 

[Bobcat]

Not even Moyes would have said that

How stupid is this? is he for real? The player was walking back to his goal and his heel was pointing to our goal, so it does not matter how big his shoes are ffs it will only be bigger in the other (onside) direction. Stupid.

Its a silly metaphor, no need to get worked up

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ole-inners and Ole-outers... what a bunch.

Well tbf, in last week or two this thread became more "normal" than it used to be. More arguments and less insults.

 

[devilish]

Alot of those fans have said I dont care if he wins the PL or CL, they still want him gone. This shows that they are not here for the team.

Maybe he cannot win us the league and Cl, we had two tried and tested managers and yet our squad is in better shape then when they were manager?

We had a top manager in Jose who stunk out the place with comments like, Sevilla are better in Europe than Manutd?

I very much doubt its the case.

I was initially hostile of us signing Ole. Manchester United as a whole (fans, club etc) are incredibly sentimental. Players tend to overstay with United, old players are given contracts despite being way past their expiry date (Gaz, Keane etc) and we just love a trip to nostalgia lane. I shivered at the thought of a legend coming here and fail. Would we sack him? If yes when?

Having said that I still wanted Ole to succeed. First of all because we would finally sort the manager's issue for a long long time. Even an anti Ole myself know that the man is not a Mou or a Pep. He won't hop from one club to another just for kicks So I wanted him to succeed here. Secondly because I thought that his lack of reputation will render him powerless in stopping the much necessary reforms the club needs. I genuinely believed that Ole would be made to work under a top DOF and will be surrounded by experienced coaches. Surely the club and himself would acknowledge that anything apart from that would set him to fail. It turned out that I was wrong.

 

[romufc]

I'm neither Ole in nor Ole out - I flip flop all the time but to think there is this animosity when a) we're not doing terribly b) actually got a great squad c) managed by one of our own is absolutely nuts.

I am actually more towards Ole out than in but I still want him to do well and try win things with us. Even though I am Ole out, I cannot blame him for everything. I do get frustrated like V Istanbul and Arsenal as well as Fred yesterday but the result and performance yesterday was not something I would say should cost him his job.

Ole is in a position where its lose lose. Play expansive V PSG with Donny and Fred and we get opened up, people say he is tactically naive. PLay 2 DM's do well and lose the game, he isn't good enough tactically. So, I would rather him do what he thinks is right for each game.

Not for years. It's ok to judge properly, I think Ole made some poor decisions last night but also we were literally slugging away with PSG for large parts of the game and until Fred got sent off I was actually enjoying the match. It was exciting. Feeling that in Europe is priceless regardless of your feelings towards Ole. Just fecking enjoy it.

I think its got to a point where some people are so far Ole out that they cannot enjoy games anymore, they just focus on negatives. I enjoyed going toe to toe with PSG. Mbappe and Neymar can embarrass the best of defenders. Thought our CB's did well yesterday.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Ole Outers will always move their narrative. Only finish 3rd cause of a poor league, only finish 3rd cause of injuries.

Other teams have better managers... well why is their team so poor then? If a PE teacher can get us 3rd, why arent so called great managers doing better?

We are going into the final game week and have a good chance of qualifying, you would have taken that when the groups came out.

Hes just not very smart. The captitulation versus Tottenham where he didn't react to the Martial sending off and today are prime examples of his lack of experience and quality. Had Fred been sent off earlier, we'd have been thrashed in the same manner. Ole was given two lives last night and he wasted it. Moments like these don't inspire me with confidence.

 

[romufc]

I very much doubt its the case.

I was initially hostile of us signing Ole. Manchester United as a whole (fans, club etc) are incredibly sentimental. Players tend to overstay with United, old players are given contracts despite being way past their expiry date (Gaz, Keane etc) and we just love a trip to nostalgia lane. I shivered at the thought of a legend coming here and fail. Would we sack him? If yes when?

Having said that I still wanted Ole to succeed. First of all because we would finally sort the manager's issue for a long long time. Even an anti Ole myself know that the man is not a Mou or a Pep. He won't hop from one club to another just for kicks So I wanted him to succeed here. Secondly because I thought that his lack of reputation will render him powerless in stopping the much necessary reforms the club needs. I genuinely believed that Ole would be made to work under a top DOF and will be surrounded by experienced coaches. Surely the club and himself would acknowledge that anything apart from that would set him to fail. It turned out that I was wrong.

You would be surprised what people say on here.

I understand he was not anyone's choice to take over the role, who is to blame for giving him the job though? If you were a player and got the chance to play at Manutd, would you turn it down thinking you are not good enough for them?

No, the reason you become a footballer is because you have belief in your ability to make it to the top. he got the job, has struggled to really take us far but you cannot blame him, he is learning on the job because the people above him have failed to get the right men like you said.

 

[anant]

Is this the greatest plot twist in history. Crazy character development

Yeah, have been reading @VP89 's posts since morning and it seems that he's gone from one end of the spectrum to the correct end of the spectrum.

And honestly, I agree with him with what he's posted today

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Are you sure? People would have blamed Ole for Martial's miss

This.

People always try to find excuses to blame Ole. Football was good yesterday, he should have sub off Fred but it really not the reason why we lost in that game. Not being clinical was the difference yesterday.