Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild

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Bobcat said:
Yeah, as i said, last night he should have been subbed for VdB at HT and he really was lucky not to be sent off before that. Fred was one of our best players though so i understand why he kept him on, though in hindsight it bit us in the arse.

PSG are cnuts though. They should have had about 4 sending offs in their last match vs Leipzig for their nasty challanges and when you combine that with the fact they are playacting like cnuts and a soulless oil club
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Yeah I understand why they desperately wanted to keep Fred on, and I’d have understood it if we needed a win. But when we needed only a draw, and we need Fred in Germany, the risk outweighed the reward for me.

That said, we’ve come a long way since Paris 2019. I thought after 15 minutes we were going to let them completely dominate us, but we instead took the game to them. We are able to play good, controlled football even against the best. And I think Cavani is going to be our most important signing.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Yeah I understand why they desperately wanted to keep Fred on, and I’d have understood it if we needed a win. But when we needed only a draw, and we need Fred in Germany, the risk outweighed the reward for me.

That said, we’ve come a long way since Paris 2019. I thought after 15 minutes we were going to let them completely dominate us, but we instead took the game to them. We are able to play good, controlled football even against the best. And I think Cavani is going to be our most important signing.
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True that. We dont agree on everything, but you are one of the reasonable and nuanced "Ole outers" at least. Refreshing among the screeching knee jerkers
 
Bobcat said:
True that. We dont agree on everything, but you are one of the reasonable and nuanced "Ole outers" at least. Refreshing among the screeching knee jerkers
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I do feel I may have knee jerked after 6 games though, no doubt due to the similarities with last season’s start. We’ll see in the coming weeks but it looks likely.

Last night, and vs. Southampton with Cavani on the pitch, we look a proper team, with lots of quality. I really enjoyed last night, weird as that may sound to some.
 
As bad as the result and the decision to keep Fred on was, we actually played well and and on the balance of play and chances probably just about edged it. We went toe to toe with one of the European elite and we did not look out of place at all. That alone is encouraging, and I don't understand the criticism of the manager (other than the Fred situation). Short of Ole not putting on the no.20 shirt himself and banging in a few (and the Fred decision), I don't know what else he could have done. The tactics and manager get the players in to a position to score, the actual scoring bit is on the players. And we had more than enough chances to have put this game to bed.

Ole deserves criticism for the Fred decision, but other than that, I don't actually know what he did wrong? If anything, once the sending off happened, we were still the ones who were pushing for the equaliser rather than PSG. Granted, that might well have been tactical from PSG's end, but even still, we were putting pressure on at their end, and it didn't prove to be an impediment to the rhythm of our play.

Those missed chances are what cost us today, and the absolute finest of margins for the onside decision of Marquinhos's goal. That Marquinhos goal is what started the chain reaction which led to Fred's red card. If Cavani's reactions were a split second quicker, it would have been a non-factor, and we most likely would have coasted through.

However, there is no rooms for ifs and buts. We should have taken the chances which were presented to us, and for that alone we deserved to lose.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I do feel I may have knee jerked after 6 games though, no doubt due to the similarities with last season’s start. We’ll see in the coming weeks but it looks likely.

Last night, and vs. Southampton with Cavani on the pitch, we look a proper team, with lots of quality. I really enjoyed last night, weird as that may sound to some.
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Some parts of the game were really enjoyable for sure. I have never changed stance on Ole (out), last night didn't enforce my previous opinion. I feel like this is as good as it can get with him, I'm patiently waiting for the inevitable.
There is no need to insult him or criticize him more harshly
 
We were doing well and hit by a sucker punch. Fine margins. Its a big lesson to Fred. Many managers would take him off but he was having a good second half and showed trust in him and our shape was pretty good. They created very little. But it happened so quick after conceding. Disappointing and compounded with rashfords injury. Our home form needs to improve dramatically.

Ole took a risk and backfired. He knew what he was doing. But the goal and sending off happened so we move on
 
Amadaeus said:
You really think Ole is the fourth best manager in world football? :lol:
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Way to completely miss my point in order to suit your agenda.

The way I see it, you can put mangers in two piles:

Should be a success for United
and
Could be a success for United

The 'should pile' is tiny, as our standards are high. The only way we can feel comfortable with the manager definitely being good enough is if he's had long-term(two or more consecutive years of PL and CL trophies) success with a PL team. Currently that's only Pep, Klopp and Mourinho.

The 'could pile' is massive, for it's never really clear if a manager is ready to take the step up or not. The most annoying logical fallacy I see in football is the idea that there's some sort of "ladder system" to the top for managers. The idea that a manager who takes a midtable team to EL football(for instance) must be a success if given more resources at a bigger club, is just plain wrong. If this was the case, then Pep, Zidane, Lampard, Arteta and Ole(just off the top of my head) wouldn't have gotten job offers from the biggest clubs in the world. And for what it's worth, Ole had a stronger resume than all of them.

None of us can with any reliable authority be sure that Poch, Nagelsmann, Rose or Hassenhutl would be an improvement long-term. They could very well be younger versions of Moyes who crack under the pressure of being a United manager and lose the dressing room.

I'll add what I've added several times before:

1. Every United manager in the post Fergie era kept their job until they failed to get top 4 after a full season or after a total collapse(Mourinho's third season). Ole deserves the same patience.
2. Our team is not good enough to win the PL yet. Having said that, this year is very strange so it might be an exception. We'll have to see if Liverpool can bounce back to old form. If they can, then we don't stand a chance.
 
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People put down PSG. They are a good side with one of the best players in the world.
Yes Ole should have taken off Fred but as others have said I don't think it's going to the main reason why we lost.
I think we attack too much. Even before they scored. We should have been tight and compact. I said even before the match we should have gone with 4 midfield and two up front.
What happens against West Ham is more important. No one gave us a chance in this group and to be in it even in the last match is good.
Do I think Ole is going to win us trophies? No.
 
Next week will be make or break for Ole. If we fail to make it to the knockout stage I think that's it for him.

IF we get through, and I am mostly confident we will, it may buy him some time. But ultimately, we will be having this discussion EVERY time Utd have a bad result from now until the end of the season.
 
I get alot of fans being Ole out, the issue is alot of fans are Ole out because of who he is.

Not every loss is Ole's fault. When you have performances like Istanbul, Arsenal, Spurs, Palace, I get the logic in being Ole out because I can see sense in that.

Half the crap I am reading on here about yesterday, he made a mistake, nothing to do with coaching or tactics.

Then there is fans who say why did he play Rashford who was injured for so long too.. those fans want Poch in, he played a half fit Kane in a final.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I do feel I may have knee jerked after 6 games though, no doubt due to the similarities with last season’s start. We’ll see in the coming weeks but it looks likely.

Last night, and vs. Southampton with Cavani on the pitch, we look a proper team, with lots of quality. I really enjoyed last night, weird as that may sound to some.
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But thats just the thing. Despite the result, last night was a good game vs a very good team and being able to acknowledged that sets one apart from the howling mob who cant wait to spew out their usual tripe after a loss/draw. Same as @VP89 , whos been highly critical of Ole is also able to give credit where its due, despite the result not going our way.
 
I'm far from an 'Ole in'ner but last night should not be the hammer that crashes down on Ole. I totally disagreed with him sending Fred back out in the second half and I would have replaced Martial much earlier ... BUT ... We actually turned up and went toe to toe with PSG and looked pretty good at times. It was a really frustrating result no doubt but bigger managers than Ole have been on the receiving end of results like that in Europe and will be in the future.

Let's see how we move on over the coming weeks, we've got a busy schedule and by the end of it we'll have a good idea of how out season will play out I think.

Like I said, I'm far from convinced Ole can take us to the next level but he's put a good team together and from what I saw, regardless of individual performances, we put up a good fight for the most part last night.
 
kouroux said:
Some parts of the game were really enjoyable for sure. I have never changed stance on Ole (out), last night didn't enforce my previous opinion. I feel like this is as good as it can get with him, I'm patiently waiting for the inevitable.
There is no need to insult him or criticize him more harshly
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This is a young team who will use experiences such as this to learn from. It's a team that is still growing, and for me it can and will get better.

Even so, if this is still our ceiling, then it's a pretty damn good one where we properly went toe to toe with one of the European elite and should have won. Yes, we want to win, but we have to take stock from where we were when Ole first came in, and see just how far we've come in a relatively short amount of time. The progress is there for all to see, and this is from a team which has at least 3 glaring holes in it, so it's even more admirable. We need to ensure that we make the Top 4 this season and can continue the progression and hopefully Ole will finally get the players he needs to fully complete his squad.

It was a game of fine margins and on another day, we'd have been through. We play like this against RBL, and I'd back us to get the win, and at least a draw.
 
jasT1981 said:
Next week will be make or break for Ole. If we fail to make it to the knockout stage I think that's it for him.

IF we get through, and I am mostly confident we will, it may buy him some time. But ultimately, we will be having this discussion EVERY time Utd have a bad result from now until the end of the season.
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I highly doubt that. No one expected us to get through this group and we have done well to have topped it over its course.
 
rotherham_red said:
This is a young team who will use experiences such as this to learn from. It's a team that is still growing, and for me it can and will get better.
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Agreed.

rotherham_red said:
we properly went toe to toe with one of the European elite and should have won. Yes, we want to win, but we have to take stock from where we were when Ole first came in, and see just how far we've come in a relatively short amount of time.
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At 1-1 it was actually a very enjoyable and exciting game in some respects.
 
jasT1981 said:
Next week will be make or break for Ole. If we fail to make it to the knockout stage I think that's it for him.
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I don't think his performances in the CL this season will decide his fate and nor should it. It will be his performances in the League and whether or not we look like qualifying for the CL next season that will do it.
 
Gone are the days when playing well meant you played well for most of the game. We play a good 20-25 minutes and all of sudden, we had a good game. Our only goal came from a lucky deflection and Fred was lucky to be on the pitch in maybe the most ridiculous VAR decision since its inception. The only thing many allude to is missed chances as if only Man United forwards miss chances. How about Ole teaches the team how to defend corners?? 190m worth of defenders and still can't defend.
 
NoPace said:
I'm a sack Ole guy because I think there are better managers out there, and he should have obviously taken off one of his two defensive mids he basically set out to tackle and win the ball once he'd lost it mentally.

PSG were there for the taking with their defenders in particular scared to push up the pitch because our of speed in behind, making it relatively easy to move the ball up the pitch (particularly on counters) and so even more of reason to put on Van De Beek for Fred.

But I kind of felt like he mostly did set out the right team and Maguire finally looks right and Telles, Bruno and Cavani just look like quality players who should be in CL knockout games or fighting for a title, so I don't feel like a team with a bad manager after watching that game. Martial and Rashford out wide look comfortable and Rashford especially has taken to playing on what you'd figure would be his least dangerous position in a front 3.

That said, we have an even goal difference in the Prem and it's tough not to watch squads like Leeds and Southampton and see teams playing an aggressive, eye-catching and both defined but still tweakable and versatile style (Hassenhuttl could tinker with formation and still run that press as we've seen with Klopp and others and Bielsa would play 3 at the back way more if he had the squad for it) with some average players they have playing as well as they can (there isn't some better Stuart Armstrong or Luke Ayling season, this is feck off peak of their careers for those guys) and wish they were unlocking Pogba or turning Dan James into a more effective player than 95% of managers by just pointing his pace and energy in a clear system. Bruno suits both well, too, as Bielsa plays with 3 in midfield and often uses a 10 type and Hassenhuttl would presumably play Bruno narrow from the left which would suit him fine cutting in and he'd have 2 strikers ahead of him to aim at.

So yeah, I'd hire someone else doing a better job or I bet if I had time to watch and interview them I'd hire some hipster coach like the guy at Slavia Praha or that guy winning everything in Ecuador the Athletic says coaches like Pep or someone else who seems to have the temperament and isn't some asshole who everyone at the club hates and whose tactics look not only effective and innovative but the best fit for the players I think of as our core for the next 3-5 years.

To me that's Rashford, Greenwood, Diallo (some people say the best prospect in Serie A and you can just see the bags of potential from how well he moves and measures a pass), Bruno, Van De Beek, Telles, Maguire and somehow both De Gea and Henderson and probably James, McTominay and Wan-Bissaka if we're including non first XI locks but have obvious squad and tactical strengths and should be in our 20ish guys who play a ton).
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Managers needs more than knowledge. They need reputation preceeding them.

Your ecuador coaches might have all the right idea but the players wont respect him.

When pep tells you something new and not natural to you, you listen and weird as it may you believe he knows what he's doing. Moyes instructed rio to play a certain way, he innocently says look at how jagielka does it (to be fair to him, it doesnt mean rio has to learn from jagielka but it could just be illustrating how he wants rio to play) and it become a classic punchline. Lvg tried something sophisticated and giggs practically vetoed him because that's not how united play bullshit.

With that kind of attitude it's very hard for relatively low reputation coach to perform.
 
Some really basic tactical errors against Southampton, and the decision yesterday to keep Fred on and wait so long for further substitutions was also shocking.

That being said if the games against PSG 2018 and 2020 are compared you have to admit that there has been improvement. Suddenly we are at least partially going toe to toe with top teams, something we have not been capable of doing for years.
On the other hand we saw yesterday what difference a good manager can make. Tuchel took a risk and changed tactics right in time and won the game.

That is the irritating thing with Ole. He is doing some things right without a doubt, but then again comes across like a pub team manager too often.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
Some really basic tactical errors against Southampton, and the decision yesterday to keep Fred on and wait so long for further substitutions was also shocking.

That being said if the games against PSG 2018 and 2020 are compared you have to admit that there has been improvement. Suddenly we are at least partially going toe to toe with top teams, something we have not been capable of doing for years.
On the other hand we saw yesterday what difference a good manager can make. Tuchel took a risk and changed tactics right in time and won the game.

That is the irritating thing with Ole. He is doing some things right without a doubt, but then again comes across like a pub team manager too often.
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PSG are a far worse team in 2020. I'm not suggesting that United hasn't improved but PSG are currently not a top team.
 
JPRouve said:
PSG are a far worse team in 2020. I'm not suggesting that United hasn't improved but PSG are currently not a top team.
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That much was clear at the start of the second half. They looked bereft of ideas bar giving it to Neymar each time. Him not tracking back left huge gaps on the right which on another day we would have scored 3.
 
SuperiorXI said:
I highly doubt that. No one expected us to get through this group and we have done well to have topped it over its course.
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PSG and Leipzig are not top teir teams - far from it. Neither are we to be fair but this was an even levelled group. Regardless, with our resources, we should be going through. But then again, many have 0 standards these days.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
There is no telling whether Fred being subbed off or not getting the 2nd yellow means we will even get a draw. We already 2-1 down a minute before he came off anyway and Tuchel could easily play defensive even with 11 v 11. The missing chances was what cost us. We had chances to make it 2-1 for us to take a lead in safe position but our attackers let us down.
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Are you kidding me? I swear Ole supporters can come with any shite just to defend him. Chasing a games with 11vs11 is entirely different from doing it with 10 men. Just accept it he is a stupid manager and move on.
 
I believe we have a strong squad of players at present who are not being utilized as they should. The outcome of last nights game alone is proof of that imo. I wouldn't argue if he was shown the door right now on the basis of that defeat. His incompetence could cost the club dearly and imv he should pay the price.
 
Grande said:
You would have had a point if PSG where countering us to death. Quite the opposite, until Fred saw red, we had control of the counters, and it was rather we who came within margins of killing the match several times. ‘Closing the game’ Would rather have invited more of the corners and pinballery that they actually did score from, so his strategy looked more sound than yours in this instance.

You grossly underestimate both Thomas Tuchel and PSG. I’m curious as to how many teams you think played better than them in the CL last season, where they lost by one goal (shots 10-12/2-3) against the team that won the treble, beat Barca 8-2 and were acclimed one of the best winners in years.

Ole may have his ceiling, but as long as results continue to improve, and play continue to improve, we don’t know where that ceiling is. And this was certainly not the match to prove that point with, quite thecontrary.
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By closing the game, you manage possession and control the game. A big part of this is keeping 11 men on the pitch especially when the stakes are high whereby we only needed a point to qualify. You see, before the red card, I agree, PSG were on the back foot. We should have taken off Fred at half time because he was on a hype. 11 vs 11 and 2 1 down, I would of been more comfortable in coming back. Even before they scored, they were always going to be a threat on the counter and I feel we needed Matic to come on and calm things down. Secondly, nothing was working for Martial last night, he should have been subbed off before the 80th minute and why Cavani came off when we changed our tactics to hoofing the ball at the top, absolutely confuses me.

I dont underestimate Tuchel or PSG. Apart from the 8-2 thumping of Barca (who have been inconsistent for a while now), PSG have been average. There league too is average and week in and week out are barely challenged. I think you grossly overestimate the Parisians. As I said, two world class forwards and a load of average players.

I think that after 2 years, if you cannot make a judgement on ceiling, your mind is very much at the point of averageness. Of course I want Ole to succeed. Despite being Ole out for some time, every week I hope that this is the week Ole can turn it around. I just do not see how we get from the current level we are at to something that is consistent and pleasant to watch. There is no identity in the way we play. There really is no use in batting to and from on opinions. You will always want to give him another two years, I think his time is up. Stupid mistakes every couple of weeks if really the nail in the coffin for me. I can understand a mistake here and there, but his mistakes are consistent. He has been with many of these players for 2 years and 1 year, they look lost. They really look like 11 mates from a pub trying to score and win a game. 3 defeats in 10 games so far this season in the league really demonstrates that, if we extrapolate, we are on course for 67 points at the moment. We need to be pushing to 75 and 80 to get back into the champions league. We dont score many, still concede too many and our goal difference is zero after 9 games. Game management is terrible from him, same situation as last night, the europa league semi final, fa cup semi final, first leg of league cup semi final, last 3 games of the premier league last season and much of the first half the season last year.
 
I never liked Ole-in and Ole-out. Comes across unnecessarily binary and personal toward the manager. I prefer Ole doubters :lol:
 
simplyared said:
I believe we have a strong squad of players at present who are not being utilized as they should. The outcrome of last nights game alone is proof of that imo. I wouldn't argue if he was shown the door right now on the basis of that defeat. His incompetence could cost the club dearly and imv he should pay the price.
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The outcome of one game in isolation, against a team rated better than ours, when we missed sitters to win, is proof enough of his incompetence? Comedy gold.
One point against the team we put 5 past a couple of weeks ago is enough to seal qualification from the group of death, while we're 5 off the league lead with a game in hand. I'm sure everybody would have been pretty happy with this position at the start of the season, yet once again the goalposts are moved to suit the daily Outer narrative.
 
simplyared said:
I believe we have a strong squad of players at present who are not being utilized as they should. The outcome of last nights game alone is proof of that imo. I wouldn't argue if he was shown the door right now on the basis of that defeat. His incompetence could cost the club dearly and imv he should pay the price.
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We were mostly the better team. Really he’s doing a fine job. Not a perfect job, but decent. I really think people who are expecting the grass to be greener with another manager are going to be in for a rude awakening when Ole finally does go.
 
Must say I’m a bit surprised at the level of vitriol in here towards Ole.

I was Ole out early part of last season.

I do think a better or at least more experienced (top) coach/manager would have been getting results and performances with this squad much sooner - the ‘he needs more money for players argument’ has never washed with me. Its ridiculous, he’s spent money other managers can only dream of - but...

Performance wise you have to say it’s getting there. PSG were very good last night. They are one of the best teams in the world very clearly. I remember the same fixture from 2018/19 when they dominated from start to finish and we looked like a very average team with a championship game plan. It wasn’t like that last night, we were toe to toe and for long periods it looked like a match between two of the best teams in Europe.
If that Cavani chip was three inches lower I think we’d have won that. That’s how fine margins are even if Fred really did need to be subbed off then.

I can understand the vitriol or at least dissatisfaction with Ole when performances are bad. But that was a true test against worlds best last night. We lost but it was on a knife edge and in first half of second half we were the dominant team and looked like we’re gonna come out winners.

I do think Ole’s insanely lucky to still be in a job because people are right that there isn’t really a top club in Europe would have given an essentially rookie manager this much money and time alongside runs of form that have at times been dreadful. I also think Ole has made plentiful mistakes, still think selling Lukaku at that time was nothing short of f *&#ing stupid and ighalo was a pure panic move. Maguire and wan Bissaka comes in a cheaper form with some savvy shopping around Europe and Bruno was available long time before we bought him. Fred one of the key components of a good team now was being kept on the bench while Beanzie rapgard was being played. There is a long list. But mistakes don’t necessarily preclude success in the long term if they can be corrected.

The run to the end of last season and some performances this season give a lot of very good reasons for backing him as manager. Before turning the guns on Ole cast your mind back to the reverse fixture two seasons ago and if you can’t see the jump in quality then you are blind. Also this team isn’t one that has no faith in the manager. This looks like a really exciting team he has built up, Time to get behind the team and the manager in my opinion.
I’m reasonably convinced we are a few tweaks away from being title contenders.
 
Giggsyking said:
Are you kidding me? I swear Ole supporters can come with any shite just to defend him. Chasing a games with 11vs11 is entirely different from doing it with 10 men. Just accept it he is a stupid manager and move on.
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What makes you think we won’t avoid defeat with 11 v 11 if we can’t even put away a sitter into goal?
 
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