Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[RedStarUnited]

1. Knowing Fred and the type of player he is, you have to take him off.
2. you know PSG will be trying to get him off too.
3. You know the ref might have seen the first offence and realised the mistake so the next challenge he is going.

There is no reason to keep him on.

 

[Zen86]

What the feck are you on about? Stop hanging out the back of Ole's arsehole.

There we go

 

[AltiUn]

I don't think I'd be even remotely as angry if PSG came to OT and played us off the park but they didn't, we were the better team, we should have won that game. In big games you have to be perfect, we gifted PSG the win there. There's a chance we could be playing EL by the end of matchday 6 and we're the best team in the group, with the chances we had we should've won every game we had yet we're now staring at the prospect of another wasted year in the EL. If it hadn't backfired so spectacularly I would've almost admired the brazen, boldness of the decision to leave Fred on but now we've actually seen what happened it just looks like the one fatal error that's cost us the game. Like, Fred legitimately played well apart from a moment of madness, he and McTominay were the 2 biggest reasons we controlled that game.

I just don't understand how 1 team can miss so many easy chances, it's been the same story all season, our all round play and build up has been gifting our attackers sitter after sitter yet we suddenly can't finish our dinner, I just don't get it.

 

[Member 58925]

Take Fred off and bring who on with his engine?

He gambled on Fred because it gave us the best chance to maintain our hold on the game. I said this at half time.

Gamble backfired, fair enough, that’s football, we still created more than enough to win, your aspiring to be clueless if you ignore that as well.

We created enough to win? Are you having a laugh? This is the highest level of professional football ffs you don't just shrug your shoulders and say oh well we had some chances when it's 1-1 with 25 minutes to play. If we keep our shape and focus after Cavani hit the bar we win the match. That's how well managed clubs string out results on a consistent basis. Imagine if we had this attitude under Sir Alex. Well, we played well, missed some chances, but it's the 65th minute and we haven't scored the manager might as well just disappear up the tunnel he's done his job. Good lord.

 

[united for life]

Jesus! That's a new one now.

You want a manager from touchline to shout - Hey Bruno, get around Mason and make an overlapping run and create a 2 v 1 situation on that flank, and then cross it in?

It's a touchline instruction, it's never going to be more than a few words

How some people can't understand that manager is not there to get only some things right? The same how we as a club have high standards for midfielders, defenders etc...it goes for manager also. In big games all decisions are important.
Yes, we did play good. He prepared us good for game. But, he fecked up with Fred. And lost the game there. While i am writing this, pundits are saying exactly that. They can't believe why Fred was not subbed.

We want to win all games, but we will
never win all games. It was a gamble keeping Fred. But let’s not just act like we would’ve scored 2 goals with Fred on! Pundits will find something to talk about. Probably it wasn’t a good gamble, but our front 3 missed some good chances.

 

[OleBoiii]

Why are seemingly no one talking about the fact that Fred's second yellow was incorrect?! It makes a mountain of difference, as that is literally the only thing Ole potentially got wrong tonight. It's beyond annoying!

 

[Crustanoid]

He is not the man for us

But I don’t know who is

Do we stick or twist? (Considering everything)

 

[VP89]

A defeat in such an important match can never be a "strong performance". We're not Sheffield United.

You need to segregate the performance from the result. It's not suddenly a bad performance because we lost. It felt like we created more today than in the first leg, Bruno's layoff to Martial which was parried out, Cavani hitting the bar, Martial's open goal miss, Bruno scuffing his open layoff to Cavani etc. I think we took the team to PSG better this fixture than we did in Paris, or at least, it was marginal between the two performances. I'm not suggesting we are Sheffield United but I'm just evaluating the performances of the team.

Someone hacked your account

Not at all. I've been a huge critic on Ole when we dropped points in games where the performance was also shit. Be it Everton/Palace/Villa/West Ham last season or Arsenal/Palace this season.

But at half time we were 2-0 down at Southampton and I was pleased. Because the way we created chances in open play (Greenwood, Bruno, etc). just showed it was a matter of time before Southampton succumb to our pressure. And today we did it again by way of chance creation. We looked a lot more fluid, we took the game to the finalists of last year's Champions League and up until the red card I believe we created more too. We didn't even need to win the fecking game

Honestly, there is a big annoyance toward Ole for the immaturity of not taking Fred off. But one credit I can give him is that he tends to learn from his errors, so as long as the performance overall was strong I think it's the right step. I get the anger toward keeping Fred on, but if any one of those chances go in it's probably a different game too.

Good post, I couldn't agree more.

Thanks

 

[NinjaZombie]

I agree and said half time should probably replace Fred but I also said that nobody will provide the same energy and engine to keep us in the game.

I even suggested Pogba and others said the same that we would be overrun.

It’s pretty obvious that’s why he risked keeping him on. It backfired but it was a harsh yellow and it could have worked.

Could have been a comfortable game if not for poor finishing.

I understand the concern with replacing Fred with Pogba, but VDB is not exactly a lazy luxury player isn't?

 

[Ed9]

Not subbing Fred off was an obvious error. But we haven't been this competitive on the highest level for years. Feels like we can stand up to everyone. I'm Ole in.

 

[Bilbo]

Happy with the performance. A lot to take away from that. Ole fked up not taking Fred off. It happens.

Do we really have to do this whole meltdown thing though? Come on Redcafe. Be better than that. Its really boring

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

1. Knowing Fred and the type of player he is, you have to take him off.
2. you know PSG will be trying to get him off too.
3. You know the ref might have seen the first offence and realised the mistake so the next challenge he is going.

There is no reason to keep him on.

Certainly not in a game where you only need a point. The way we were playing, I’d have fancied us to get an equaliser with 11 men.

Was a daft decision, even the posters who can’t ever bring themselves to say a bad word about the managers realise that, you can be sure. They are just in default defend Ole mode.

@Bilbo is bang on, so many positives. We looked good against PsG, we’re so far advanced from the shitty smash and grab side that if we’re honest was played off the park in Paris back in 2019.

 

[NJM78]

Nothing is changing my mind, I'm Ole Out until he is out...however long that is.

 

[croadyman]

Not subbing Fred off was an obvious error. But we haven't been this competitive on the highest level for years. Feels like we can stand up to everyone. I'm Ole in.

Yeah was stunned to see Fred come out for the second half

 

[Acquire Me]

If he takes Fred off he loses the qualities Fred brings. My thinking is Ole took a gamble and it could have paid off... this time it didn't. It wasn't 100% that Fred would get a red... only because he did people are complaining. If we win that match it's a masterstroke, these are the decisions managers are faced with.

It could have been a great gamble, but for me it was a horrible decision. Better to be safe there imo.

All in all, we are progressing.

 

[TheGame]

We have a OGS discussion thread already. This thread is just simply toxic. People coming out of the woodwork after every defeat shouting sack sack sack. Do not see the point of it at all.

 

[Ralph1386]

As long as we keep 11 players on the pitch, so Phelan, Ole, Carrick, et al, take note. If someone’s a red card waiting to happen and you only need a point, don’t fecking gamble.

Shouldn’t we be expecting them to know this already? Or are we asking for too much?

 

[Mockney]

Every time I begin to start thinking things might just be coming together a bit, he does something dumb that makes me think he’s never going to actually win us anything..

 

[Wilt]

That's our biggest home defeat in Europe. Previous record was also against PSG and under Solskjaer.

Fairplay, he'll at least leave with a record or two.

I‘m surprised if that’s right

 

[villain]

Why are seemingly no one talking about the fact that Fred's second yellow was incorrect?! It makes a mountain of difference, as that is literally the only thing Ole potentially got wrong tonight. It's beyond annoying!

It doesn't matter if his second yellow was incorrect, because his first yellow should've been a red.
The referee would've looked at the footage and would look for any opportunity to make things square.

How are you not seeing this?

 

[SuperiorXI]

It could have been a great gamble, but for me it was a horrible decision. Better to be safe there imo.

All in all, we are progressing.

Yes but lets say he comes off for VDB, we then loose his defensive qualities and get our arses handed to us... it's possible.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yeah I'm back to having some hope for Ole. The performances in the first couple of months this season were horrendous and I was genuinely worried, but we've gone back to normal levels and showing progress.

Today is down to finishing, as tactics were spot on. But from a managerial standpoint, you just have to sub Fred. Doesn't matter if the ref fecked up there. Fred was walking a tight rope and is a player that gets stuck in. It was a ticking time bomb. Idiotic not to sub him off.

 

[el3mel]

We have a OGS discussion thread already. This thread is just simply toxic. People coming out of the woodwork after every defeat shouting sack sack sack. Do not see the point of it at all.

There're also some who come after every win mocking everyone with different opinion and saying some cringey stuff like "OleOuters".

So yeah it's fair game I guess ? It's a very toxic thread but people who refuse to let anyone else say his opinion without mocking them is a big reason why it's so toxic.

Maybe if they lived and let others live, post their opinions and let others post theirs we wouldn't have reached such toxicity in this forum.

 

[Tom Cato]

I can't understand why he didn't sub Fred off..

On that note: PSG are wanted by Interpol for theft tonight.

 

[Member 58925]

It was a poor decision to leave Fred on but Martial should have buried those chances. And anyone using that mistake by Ole to call for his sacking can feck right off.

If you don't understand that a complete loss of shape after Cavani hit the bar led to the second goal, and if you don't understand how that ties into piss poor leadership, you can go learn some football while we feck right off. Missed chances are not an excuse to go off a cliff a little past the hour mark.

 

[El Jefe]

Criminal from him, yes, but he's been out of form all season. Who do you think starts Martial? Or keeps him on the pitch after missing sitters and playing shite?

Why do we always talk about how many misses we have anyway? Every team misses chances. Only for Ole is the "if only X scored" excuse trotted out.

It's not like Greenwood is in form so there's nothing wrong with Martial continuing to get chances. Unless you want to see Dan James or Ighalo get a run of games.

Like I said, I'm not pro Ole but we played very well this game and had PSG on the ropes in the second.

 

[laughtersassassin]

The posters defending Ole all realise we're not solely blaming Ole, right? I mean Fred and Martial deserve their fair share but Ole has to shoulder most of the blame as manager of this group.

Exactly. We aren't only blaming Ole. Martial fecked us too. But Martial didn't make a conscious decision to miss.

Ole make a decision to leave Fred on knowing that it was highly likely he would be sent off. And to make it worse he had plenty of very good midielders on the bench.

Decision was shocking and it's a managers job to make good decisions.

Also not making any subs till after they scored was stupid too.

Rashford was injured/Knackered for 10 minutes

 

[Skills]

I‘m surprised if that’s right

We'd never lost at home in Europe by a margin of more than 1 goal before 2019.

 

[hobbers]

Why are seemingly no one talking about the fact that Fred's second yellow was incorrect?! It makes a mountain of difference, as that is literally the only thing Ole potentially got wrong tonight. It's beyond annoying!

But that doesn't remove any blame from Ole.

If you leave a reckless defensive midfielder on the pitch with a yellow card, having been incredibly fortunate not to have been shown a straight red, you accept that any little transgression or indeed a refereeing mistake is likely to end up with them walking.

 

[PlayerOne]

Seems hiring a club playing legend to be a manager has really impaired people's ability to judge a manager.

This was always my fear and why I never wanted Ole or any other player to manage us. Our board will let this ride out, while fans let results and standards fall

 

[TheGame]

There're also some who come after every win mocking everyone with different opinion and saying some cringey stuff like "OleOuters".

So yeah it's fair game I guess ? It's a very toxic thread but people who refuse to let anyone else say his opinion without mocking them is a big reason why it's so toxic.

Maybe if they lived and let others live, post their opinions and let others post theirs we wouldn't have reached such toxicity in this forum.

It works both ways. There was a post after the West Brom win saying the ‘The fraud wins again’. We have a performance thread, no idea why we need to go round in circuses about sacking every game.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Nothing is changing my mind, I'm Ole Out until he is out...however long that is.

At 55 mins we should have been through to last 16. We were playing brilliant football and Martial missed 2 sitters and Cavani hits bar.

That's football though. You don't take chances big teams punish you.

 

[OleBoiii]

It doesn't matter if his second yellow was incorrect, because his first yellow should've been a red.
The referee would've looked at the footage and would look for any opportunity to make things square.

How are you not seeing this?

That is not how it works, though. If it's bordering to a yellow card then you can "compensate", but the tackle was clean. What's next? Giving someone a second yellow for breathing?

The commentator on my stream said it best: "This is probably the first slide tackle Fred made in this half. He's done well to keep on his feet. And looking at the replay the tackle is 100% clean. It's at worst a freekick. And even that is harsh".

 

[Mr Smith]

I'm sorry but today was pretty basic incompetence. And I do understand that keeping Fred on was a calculated risk given the energy and industry he brings. But good managers adapt, you can just stubbornly stick to your game plan and ignore the circumstances of the match. Mourinho or Klopp would have taken Fred off within 5 minutes of his booking.

I'd feel differently about Ole if there was no one out there to replace him, but there are currently two top class coaches out of work that will be snapped up if we don't act soon.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Play like that again and we’ll get a point at least in Germany.

As long as we keep 11 players on the pitch, so Phelan, Ole, Carrick, et al, take note. If someone’s a red card waiting to happen and you only need a point, don’t fecking gamble.

Nah he should gamble again. Sure according to this win here it wasn't his fault

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Why are seemingly no one talking about the fact that Fred's second yellow was incorrect?! It makes a mountain of difference, as that is literally the only thing Ole potentially got wrong tonight. It's beyond annoying!

But, as someone said in the Match thread, the ref will have seen at half-time that he should have got the second yellow already so he would have been looking for the opportunity to rectify that second half.

 

[90 + 5min]

The posters defending Ole all realise we're not solely blaming Ole, right? I mean Fred and Martial deserve their fair share but Ole has to shoulder most of the blame as manager of this group.

I'm not really sure that you read all the posts. Maybe 5% of OleOut is having valid arguments. The other 95% are kids watching game on flashscore and yelling out, out, out because the game doesn't reflect their reallity from playing Football Manager.

Solskjaer did wrong in not taking Fred out. I think everyone can agree on that. Other then that, he was spot on. We controlled the game until red card and should have won if our players knew how to score.

 

[Bilbo]

I think the comments in this thread are now becoming premature after a game where Ole made one fatal error. All things considered we should be looking at the picture as a whole, which is this was our 3rd consecutive strong performance, showing there is a sense of consistency in the way we play. We are able to take games to teams a lot better, and we aren't relying solely on counter attacks to unlock big sides. It's a mistake in keeping Fred on and Ole will likely learn from that, but I've always maintained my own evaluation on how we progress emphasises on performance as much as it does results.

And if we perform against Leipzig the way we did today, we will almost certainly be in the knock out stages. I mark today as another sign of progression for the manager, even though we lost the game.

Good post. Completely agree. We score one of our chances and we're all sat here talking about how we dominated last years finalists. PSG were done at that point. We'd outworking and outplayed them

 

[Leftback99]

You didn’t need hindsight on this one.

Shame, we played well. We’re capable of playing some very good stuff. Calling Cavani’s chance anything other than extremely unlucky is silly, Martial though... my lord.

We more than likely would have still lost anyway if he stayed on the pitch. But that's it now for the Ole outers, Fred being (wrongly on two counts) still on the pitch was the one and only reason we lost.

 

[RedC]

Cavani missed a one on one, Bruno had two one on ones and chose to pass both times. Everyone's finishing was poor. At least, unlike the others, Martial did well outside of that.

I don't think this is going to go anywhere if you're equating anything that happened in that game to what Martial did, and has done all season. He is tumescent.