If individual mistakes are not on him then why is on him when player scores a beautiful goal (which gives a team victory)?
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Drop him for Van de Beek. You know, the player who has been one of our best players recently.
Good post, I couldn't agree more.
The blame isnt squarely on him given the context of the game, but some absolutely criminal decision making today. The decision to take Fred off at half time was so painstakingly obvious that I genuinely can't believe the game unfolded as it did. We got away with it with McTominay in the first game, but I can't believe a manager would be so willing to ride their luck in a game like this?
We had 5 potential subs to make, a quality bench, PSG leaving acres of space in behind... and we react after conceding and going down to 10 men? Not to mention leaving Rashford on while he was complaing about an injury.
Neither Fred nor Martial can be excused with their performances but good managers make their mark by affecting games like this when the time calls for it.
We had 5 potential subs to make, a quality bench, PSG leaving acres of space in behind... and we react after conceding and going down to 10 men? Not to mention leaving Rashford on while he was complaing about an injury.
Neither Fred nor Martial can be excused with their performances but good managers make their mark by affecting games like this when the time calls for it.
Football doesn't work like that. Players misses sitters but managers just can't not see that RED. Any semi decent competent manager is taking Fred off at half time. Referee knows he bottled it by missing the second yellow and he is just waiting for an opportunity. Doesn't matter he got the ball or not, any slight aggressive tackle is going to get that second yellow and guess what, it just did.
Why can't you just see that?
This is without mentioning Rashford running into people when in great positions on the counter.
Some people just love slating Martial because the Sun told them to think like that.
He’s had a mare tonight. Highlighted a lot of the issues he has. Too slow at making changes, then the changes he make feck us over.
It’s a vicious circle we go round and round in. Few decent results then some reality checks.
It’s a vicious circle we go round and round in. Few decent results then some reality checks.
The haters are on fire tonight. Chill out kids.
Sack this and sack that. He got one decision wrong. He had brilliant setup that controlled PSG entire game until red card. We missed sitters that should have put the game.
Sack this and sack that. He got one decision wrong. He had brilliant setup that controlled PSG entire game until red card. We missed sitters that should have put the game.
Sack Martial.
We really are game raisers aren't we? We had our cup final in Paris, but we throw it all away when it really matters.
Teams resemble their managers and how many times have we choked at key points under him now? Three semi-finals last season was it? He hasn't learned a thing from any of them. I'm certain we will never win anything significant under him.
Teams resemble their managers and how many times have we choked at key points under him now? Three semi-finals last season was it? He hasn't learned a thing from any of them. I'm certain we will never win anything significant under him.
We'd have definitely levelled the game with Fred on the pitchmust sack him!
Yes it's an error in hindsight.
You didn’t need hindsight on this one.
Shame, we played well. We’re capable of playing some very good stuff. Calling Cavani’s chance anything other than extremely unlucky is silly, Martial though... my lord.
Of course he should have taken off Fred but we didn't lose because of Fred.
When you face a better team then you have to come up with better tactics. It was working and we should have scored. We simply didn't because Martial missed a sitter and Cavani was unlucky.
We go out in the CL not because we lost tonight but because we lost in Istanbul. I can't see us beating Liepzig.
Let's see what happens against Moysie first. If he loses yes he should go immediately. I have always said that I don't think he is good enough but I wouldn't blame him for this loss. With or without Fred we would have lost this game.
When you face a better team then you have to come up with better tactics. It was working and we should have scored. We simply didn't because Martial missed a sitter and Cavani was unlucky.
We go out in the CL not because we lost tonight but because we lost in Istanbul. I can't see us beating Liepzig.
Let's see what happens against Moysie first. If he loses yes he should go immediately. I have always said that I don't think he is good enough but I wouldn't blame him for this loss. With or without Fred we would have lost this game.
Why OGS had to keep Fred on is mind blowing? Fred's hardly an essential cog and VDB would have been quite a legitimate replacement and arguably better suited to the way the game was panning out... infuriating, we couid have been through to the next round.
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If anything, Martial took it too quickly. Everyone was expecting a first time shot. A little dummy and he'd have had an empty net to aim for.
If he takes Fred off he loses the qualities Fred brings. My thinking is Ole took a gamble and it could have paid off... this time it didn't. It wasn't 100% that Fred would get a red... only because he did people are complaining. If we win that match it's a masterstroke, these are the decisions managers are faced with.
He literally can't do no wrong it seemsAnd then hit it straight at the keeper anyway, I know the defender blocked it but if he hadn't it would have just hit the keeper anyway.
Was yet more dreadful finishing from him.
Not really. He hadn’t lost his head. He was playing well and the fact it wasn’t actually a foul that got him sent off demonstrates that. He was lucky to be on the pitch sure, but the ref deemed it a yellow.
Blame Ole for the game is ludicrous of course. We played perfect except for being wasteful. Ole did let us down by keeping Fred imo. Horrible decision.
Agreed.
You are correct but I think if you get to and lose 3/3 semi finals in one season and don't win any of them there is an element of bottling it no?
Especially when you consider we had a better team than one or two of them.
A top striker is not going to save us. Stop with these silly thoughts. Cavani scored two over the weekend and we got a thread about how much a top striker improves us. Well he started today and got zero goals. It’s not the issue. Trying to create the new Galacticos is not the answer and this will continue until we actually sort out our requirement and management.
Who’s Liverpool’s world class striker. It’s ridiculous.
Way to make a meal out of literally the least relevant part of my post. I don't disagree that it would probably have been better to take Fred off, but it's hard to blame Ole for this when:
1. We dominated their midfield in the second half and Fred definitely played an important part.
2. His second yellow card wasn't a yellow card.
If PSG had been the better team or the second yellow had been correct: by all means, criticize Ole! But it's not the case here.
He won't go if we lose vs WHam. The excuses are already lined up - "we were too tired from Wednesday".
He hit it first time.
A gamble that likely will cost us tens of millions and a bump down to the Europa fecking League - but hey... you're right, gambles are fun and in a parallel universe it paid off, so happy day - nothing to see here, please disperse.
A number of people excuse Ole on the grounds of "taking a gamble". I don't get how that excludes him form criticism. The gamble backfired - that's the whole point of a gamble? It worked? You did good. It backfired? Well, you deserve criticism.
You can be on a yellow card and play a whole game - no probs. But what Fred did was a straight red and to add to that, he could even be given a red before, when he stamped Paredes and Paredes got the yellow - seven minutes before half time.
Ole should have acted and the fact he didn't cost us. Simple as that, really.
Would certainly have worked for me. Unfortunately his confidence and therefore form is completely shot.
But even with all the missed chance we could have easily scored if we had 11 men. Ole cost us that. I wouldn't even blame Fred too much. Was obvious he'd have one tackle that would get him sent off.
Everyone called it. I can't reconcile that.
No, Ole is infallible. Suggesting otherwise would cause the universe to implode.
But on a serious note, that’s just a reaction to the fact he should’ve been sent off.
I agree and said half time should probably replace Fred but I also said that nobody will provide the same energy and engine to keep us in the game.
I even suggested Pogba and others said the same that we would be overrun.
It’s pretty obvious that’s why he risked keeping him on. It backfired but it was a harsh yellow and it could have worked.
Could have been a comfortable game if not for poor finishing.
The posters defending Ole all realise we're not solely blaming Ole, right? I mean Fred and Martial deserve their fair share but Ole has to shoulder most of the blame as manager of this group.
These are the same as calling people out for saying moments of individual brilliance shouldn't be to the manager's credit.
My problem with Ole and the technical staff is roughly once every couple games they are going to cost us a goal or a game because of blatant tactical oversight, I mean something even the commentators and armchair managers are pointing out long before it costs us
Hear hear. Good post.
We're basically waiting for him to win something because of the nostalgia & emotion that will be tied to it. It will make for a great story, we will reminisce about the good ol' days, Man Utd DNA etc.
As a club we really need to move on from the Fergie era, everything is still tied to the great man in some way - "Would Fergie have taken off Fred?" who cares? honestly? And what difference does it make? None at all.
The truth is, he may win a trophy but nobody can say that with confidence - meanwhile we have a seriously talented squad that isn't being utilised by a manager with a clear plan.
This question becomes more and more pointless when I’d have sacked him at the end of the 18/19 season and multiple times since (just about every other week).
Talking of universes, which one are you from? You think other managers don’t take risks?
Play like that again and we’ll get a point at least in Germany.
As long as we keep 11 players on the pitch, so Phelan, Ole, Carrick, et al, take note. If someone’s a red card waiting to happen and you only need a point, don’t fecking gamble.
As long as we keep 11 players on the pitch, so Phelan, Ole, Carrick, et al, take note. If someone’s a red card waiting to happen and you only need a point, don’t fecking gamble.
He is a manager ffs. He has 25 players. I don't think that he did wrong about Martial but he can change system, change players's positions, etc....
That "what coach should do" is rubbish excuse.
Ssssssshhhhhhhhh. Just no.
That's our biggest home defeat in Europe. Previous record was also against PSG and under Solskjaer.
Fairplay, he'll at least leave with a record or two.
Fairplay, he'll at least leave with a record or two.
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