10 games? I took our shit start mate because that’s what the argument about “no pre-season” came from.
The argument started after we lost to Arsenal and the knifes came out, when people like yourself argued “no pre-season” was the reason for it.
So do 6 games.
What I also think is bizarre is that almost everyone thinks Liverpool have a better squad, which logically means you have to argue that Ole has done better than Klopp to get these results with a less talented group of players.
Yes they have a better, and much more mature squad. So Ole have done a great job with our relatively young team, which naturally will be a bit more inconsistant, than a team with more seasoned players.
Liverpool was at their best last year.
We will be at our best in 4-5 years?
What I also think is bizarre is that almost everyone thinks Liverpool have a better squad, which logically means you have to argue that Ole has done better than Klopp to get these results with a less talented group of players.
I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.
Just a quick look at results:
TEAM
PLAYED
WON
DRAWN
LOST
GOALS FOR
GOALS AGAINST
DIFFERENCE
GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG
GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD
47
29 (61.7%)
8 (17%)
10 (21.3%)
99
43
+56
2.1
0.9
LIVERPOOL
42
26 (61.9%)
6 (14.3%)
10 (23.8%)
82
49
+33
1.9
1.1
You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.
Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!
This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.
So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?
L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5
LOCK DOWN
D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1
2020/21 SEASON
L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3
LOCKDOWN
D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3
2020/21 SEASON
L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
They didn't, true enough. But we didn't match their form in the league either. The gap between us and Liverpool was increased by 9 points since January 1st. On Matchday 20 Liverpool were on 55 points and United on 31. At the end of the season the points for both clubs were 99 and 66 respectively. And it will be 11 if we win our game in hand, if we count the start of this season.
Although i'm far from convinced about Ole being good enough to manage a team like United, I'm still Ole in.
But I really believe we should put up a title challenge this season, specially if City and Liverpool are going to struggle a bit as it seems.
Was hoping for a top forward this summer, but maybe we got him in Cavani... this squad should be good enough if Martial and Greenwood can get back to their best again.
I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.
Just a quick look at results:
TEAM
PLAYED
WON
DRAWN
LOST
GOALS FOR
GOALS AGAINST
DIFFERENCE
GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG
GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD
47
29 (61.7%)
8 (17%)
10 (21.3%)
99
43
+56
2.1
0.9
LIVERPOOL
42
26 (61.9%)
6 (14.3%)
10 (23.8%)
82
49
+33
1.9
1.1
You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.
Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!
This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.
So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?
L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5
LOCK DOWN
D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1
2020/21 SEASON
L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3
LOCKDOWN
D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3
2020/21 SEASON
L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
Great post. Always liked your posts as a lurker on this forum and love to see an oppo who thinks objectively about United.
Ultimately we have shown massive sign of improvement after years of decline post Fergie. We are back to justifying our place in the big 6 with the squad we have and the performances we put in.
Ole’s recruitment has been spectacular in my opinion and he is worth putting faith in just to continue that rebuild.
Honestly believe some people forget how bad our recruitment has been previously.
Bottom line, if we win our game in hand we go into the top 4 two points off top spot. Have we held the top spot for even a day since Fergie? I am firmly Ole in and enjoying the ride so far.
Although i'm far from convinced about Ole being good enough to manage a team like United, I'm still Ole in.
But I really believe we should put up a title challenge this season, specially if City and Liverpool are going to struggle a bit as it seems.
Was hoping for a top forward this summer, but maybe we got him in Cavani... this squad should be good enough if Martial and Greenwood can get back to their best again.
We are in with a good shout of being two points off top spot after 10 games. That’s the makings of a title challenge for you surely? Maintain that to the end of the season (or better) and surely nobody could doubt Ole at that stage?
I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.
Just a quick look at results:
TEAM
PLAYED
WON
DRAWN
LOST
GOALS FOR
GOALS AGAINST
DIFFERENCE
GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG
GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD
47
29 (61.7%)
8 (17%)
10 (21.3%)
99
43
+56
2.1
0.9
LIVERPOOL
42
26 (61.9%)
6 (14.3%)
10 (23.8%)
82
49
+33
1.9
1.1
You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.
Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!
This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.
So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?
L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5
LOCK DOWN
D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1
2020/21 SEASON
L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3
LOCKDOWN
D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3
2020/21 SEASON
L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
Although i'm far from convinced about Ole being good enough to manage a team like United, I'm still Ole in.
But I really believe we should put up a title challenge this season, specially if City and Liverpool are going to struggle a bit as it seems.
Was hoping for a top forward this summer, but maybe we got him in Cavani... this squad should be good enough if Martial and Greenwood can get back to their best again.
The fact that you expect us to put up a title challenge in the season starting just 20 or so months after the mess Mourinho left us with - doesn't that say a lot about what a bloody miracle OGS has done at this club ?
Arsenal's squad is in competition with Leicester, Everton and Wolves. They are miles behind Liverpool, City, Spurs, Chelsea and United's squads.
Yet for some strange reason, you get fans who think Arsenal are still a top 4 club. Arteta is facing an actual rebuild with little resources. They invested money under Emery, but now Arteta has come in with a different approach and doesn't have the backing that Ole and Lampard received. Arsenal spent less money than Leeds this summer. They signed players on free transfers or had to sell/loan out in order to buy. Partey came in at the expense of loaning out Torreira and Guendouzi to cover his salary. Partey showed what he can do against United. Gabriel has looked a decent buy with potential to become a solid PL centre back. Question marks over Willian due to his age and salary, but he replaces Mkhitaryan who they let leave on a free. Özil's expensive salary is the equivalent to us being stuck with Alexis Sánchez on the books until we finally shifted him. But unlike United, Arsenal can't carry that salary. We are at a different level financially. What Arteta needs to find is his Bruno. Joe Willock is a decent young player, but the equivalent of us playing Lingard or Andreas Pereira as our #10. A creative midfielder to replace Özil is what they need to start creating chances more frequently. They have a good defensive base under Arteta. They rarely lose by more than a goal in the big games. They've gotten some big results due to his tactics. But now they need to start finding a way to beat your standard PL sides. Especially at home.
I think Arteta, Lampard and Ole are all in very fortunate positions. But it's clear that Arteta is at a disadvantage compared to Lampard and Ole who inherited better players, but were also able to add further quality to their squads. Gabriel and Partey is a move in the right direction, but many more new faces are needed.
Maguire basically cost what Arsenal spent on Gabriel, Partey and Pablo Marí.
As bad as the Villa and Wolves games were, Arsenal aren't miles behind West Ham. They can turn it around. But it has to start soon. The form of Aubameyang post contract signing is worrying for them. He had no problem scoring goals last season under him, so it's not down to tactics alone. Arsenal are currently in the rut Ole found himself in after PSG away in 2019. Ole got time. Lots of it. Arteta probably won't receive similar patience.
That's simply not true. Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal were all on or around the same level from 2016/17-2018/19 - all were challenging for Top 4 and could not be assured of their place in it. The only three semi-guaranteed presences were Liverpool, City and Spurs under Poch (until he lost his way).
Lest we forget, Jose and Ole's Utd finished lower than Arsenal in 2019, and were 4 points behind them. Arsenal, in turn were only two points behind Chelsea in 3rd and 1 point behind Spurs in 4th.
Just like we sold Lukaku to fund Maguire, or Smalling to fund Telles. They have done what any sane club does and balanced their books, it's not some hard luck story for them, ffs. They also broke their transfer record (spending £72m on Pepe) and spent £140m+ on transfers last summer.
They had and do have the resources to properly rebuild. Making them out to be some plucky underdogs is properly weird.
The fact that you expect us to put up a title challenge in the season starting just 20 or so months after the mess Mourinho left us with - doesn't that say a lot about what a bloody miracle OGS has done at this club ?
The fact that you expect us to put up a title challenge in the season starting just 20 or so months after the mess Mourinho left us with - doesn't that say a lot about what a bloody miracle OGS has done at this club ?
Honestly I will be disappointed if come april we are not challenging for the title but are involved in the top 4 rat race only. This season is open. I doubt the PL winners would have 90 plus points. 85 odd points could win the title for a team. We should be there or there about.
A win is a win, but some wins are more easily achieved than others. What separates a legendary coach from a good coach is the ability to keep winning titles.
When you have the best defense, peak Kante and Hazard and all your competitors(apart from Tottenham of all teams) are in a transition period, it's not hard to win. If he had been such a great coach then he wouldn't have failed so spectacularly immediately after winning the league.
A win is a win, but some wins are more easily achieved than others. What separates a legendary coach from a good coach is the ability to keep winning titles.
When you have the best defense, peak Kante and Hazard and all your competitors(apart from Tottenham of all teams) are in a transition period, it's not hard to win. If he had been such a great coach then he wouldn't have failed so spectacularly immediately after winning the league.
May be in minority but as a neutral I really liked that Chelsea's title win and the way he made them win it was remarkable. He immediately changed the style after getting beaten 3-0 by arsenal. Counter attacking football at its best.
I agree with this. I'm not a natural Ole in, but I also feel uncomfortable at wanting him replaced. He's done a lot of great stuff but I've also seen periods where we didn't look like we were progressing. It's complicated and I've been the ultimate flip-flopper I don't mind admitting.
What I am certain of though is that for the most part, I really think we have a good squad and I would 100% expect next season for us to have a good crack at at least being in the title race as a bare minimum. getting 3rd last year was good. Being pleased with a distant 3rd every year isn't so good.
Matter of fact I think we are sitting as good as any of the teams outside liverpool and city to challenge based on our form and results this year alone.
We are in with a good shout of being two points off top spot after 10 games. That’s the makings of a title challenge for you surely? Maintain that to the end of the season (or better) and surely nobody could doubt Ole at that stage?
I don’t know and can’t be bothered to find out as that’s more than a year ago and your team has changed dramatically - the point is why are some people so convinced Ole is wrong for Utd, when for the last 11 months United have pretty much out performed Liverpool. Surely it’s not because you had a bad first half of last season.
The fact that you expect us to put up a title challenge in the season starting just 20 or so months after the mess Mourinho left us with - doesn't that say a lot about what a bloody miracle OGS has done at this club ?
Is a title challenge not something we should expect from this United team?
I don't think pointing at the Mourinho mess is very relevant, of course it's a massive job/challenge for anyone to get United back to the top. Ole has been very good in the transfer market (sure some expensive transfers but all good players) and created a much better atmosphere around the club.
I think it's a logic step to put up a title fight this year, not saying we should necessarily win but still...
I don’t know and can’t be bothered to find out as that’s more than a year ago and your team has changed dramatically - the point is why are some people so convinced Ole is wrong for Utd, when for the last 11 months United have pretty much out performed Liverpool. Surely it’s not because you had a bad first half of last season.
We are still at the mercy of Liverpool and City running out of steam. They are still better teams than us(especially Liverpool).
If it's the case that both teams already are past it and we're seeing the start of a new transition period for both of them, then yeah we should probably make a title challenge. I still think we'd be pretty weak champions if we should win, though. If you look at this team and compare it to the Liverpool that won last season and the Pep teams that won the previous two, then it's a pretty clear difference in overall player quality.
Matter of fact I think we are sitting as good as any of the teams outside liverpool and city to challenge based on our form and results this year alone.
Toilet humour aside, yes we are in the title race, but how much of that is down to it just being a bonkers time for all teams? Anyway, I'm just saying that Ole's done good work but we can't be in transition forever. I just want us to expect to be in the title race next season. That should be where we are. Back in the mix.
Yeah, Liverpool still have the best points in 2020, we can applaud Ole's results this year but we shouldn't go overboard. Still work to be done to close the gap but we are making progress.
I'm fine with people being Ole out or Ole in, but it's tiring because it seems after every win Ole gets it's because the opposition is bad or due to the players. Ole never get any credit.
Does he have to win the league unbeaten with strictly academy players on 1000£ a week to win you over? A tactical masterclass every game with the U21?
I'm fine with people being Ole out or Ole in, but it's tiring because it seems after every win Ole gets it's because the opposition is bad or due to the players. Ole never get any credit.
Does he have to win the league unbeaten with strictly academy players on 1000£ a week to win you over? A tactical masterclass every game with the U21?
I have been vocal in doubt Ole as the coach to lead us to titles, and I was praising him here on this very thread, at HT when we were 2-0 down to Southampton.
Yeah, Liverpool still have the best points in 2020, we can applaud Ole's results this year but we shouldn't go overboard. Still work to be done to close the gap but we are making progress.
Of course, i'm not suggesting that there is no progress. It's just that both extremes often use stats in an attempt to turn indications or clues into bulletproof evidence. We obviously have become a better side since the beginning of last season (or since Solskjaer took over from Mou) but the burden of proof for a legitimate title challenge/concrete top-four, which i presume we all expect of the manager/players, still rests on the man in charge and his personnel.
Toilet humour aside, yes we are in the title race, but how much of that is down to it just being a bonkers time for all teams? Anyway, I'm just saying that Ole's done good work but we can't be in transition forever. I just want us to expect to be in the title race next season. That should be where we are. Back in the mix.
Its illrevant about the league being a bonkers season, or teams not being as good as last season, or injuries, point tallies compared to previous seasons etc
all that matters is the league finish at end of season.
If we managed to win the league, or be in the race to the very end, no one going to making excuses for it, saying that I'm sure there will be some on the Caf
But I agree next year has to be in a proper race for sure, if it doesnt materialize this season.
I'm happy this season with progression in league, good cup runs and building on the squad that we have already. 2020 we have been pretty good in my opinion.
I'll prob get accused of lowering standards and just accepting, but we been so shite for years, I think the way things are going at the moment is the way to do it.
I don’t know and can’t be bothered to find out as that’s more than a year ago and your team has changed dramatically - the point is why are some people so convinced Ole is wrong for Utd, when for the last 11 months United have pretty much out performed Liverpool. Surely it’s not because you had a bad first half of last season.
It makes no sense. If you want to measure progress you go see the results over a long enough time frame. Once the whole argument about current bad form being down to preseason was done.. It is natural to see the progress we've made. However some still want to bring up these points to justify their stance. Even if we have faltered since beginning of last season doesn't a growth or improvement bode we'll for the manager and team? Apparently not. The arguments made for Ole Out have been terrible for a long time now. This is why I can't take some of them seriously. Depending on individual brilliance is one. Our squad being on par with Pool/City being another. I mean how many here thought it was on par 2 years back? Improvements seen in Rashy Tony Fred McT Matic and new signings performing "demands" better coaching yet ignoring he is the precise reason why we have a better squad now. Its crazy. Hypocrisy really. Same with being backed. Ensuring you get the best of our signings and have them performing is not the same as getting all your preferred signings. Consistency issue makes sense though and criticism for that is justified IMO.
I don’t know and can’t be bothered to find out as that’s more than a year ago and your team has changed dramatically - the point is why are some people so convinced Ole is wrong for Utd, when for the last 11 months United have pretty much out performed Liverpool. Surely it’s not because you had a bad first half of last season.
It's just an odd time frame when the start of last season (and the finish to the prior one) is exactly why there's doubts. As a club we can't start every season poorly or afford to go through bad patches and then rely on purple patches to bail us out.
Liverpool used to be the ones going through purple patches then claiming progress. You have to do it throughout the season not an arbitrary window because no one gives titles for that.
Its illrevant about the league being a bonkers season, or teams not being as good as last season, or injuries, point tallies compared to previous seasons etc
all that matters is the league finish at end of season.
My mention of the season being bonkers reflects our position regardless of our home form. How we're still so close is beyond me and reflects on the struggles of other teams also.
But also, it is only the start of December, long way to go and if we're still there or thereabouts come March / April then lets talk.
If we managed to win the league, or be in the race to the very end, no one going to making excuses for it, saying that I'm sure there will be some on the Caf
If that were to happen (fingers and toes crossed) and posters, Ole out-ters specifically, denounce it in any way to try and put a negative spin on it then they should be instantly banned!
This is my point. I'm sort of along for the ride this season, flip flopping with my opinion of Ole (I think I'm more flop than flip today) and I can see progress, I like the squad (mostly) and let's see where we end up.
Next season though, game on, and if we aren't up to it, then the club needs to decide where to go from there because I think we have the squad to go for it now.
We are still at the mercy of Liverpool and City running out of steam. They are still better teams than us(especially Liverpool).
If it's the case that both teams already are past it and we're seeing the start of a new transition period for both of them, then yeah we should probably make a title challenge. I still think we'd be pretty weak champions if we should win, though. If you look at this team and compare it to the Liverpool that won last season and the Pep teams that won the previous two, then it's a pretty clear difference in overall player quality.
It's just an odd time frame when the start of last season (and the finish to the prior one) is exactly why there's doubts. As a club we can't start every season poorly or afford to go through bad patches and then rely on purple patches to bail us out.
Liverpool used to be the ones going through purple patches then claiming progress. You have to do it throughout the season not an arbitrary window because no one gives titles for that.
Agreed. But historically as well we have had a history of starting seasons slowly and going on the offensive post Dec. If the problem persists it is an issue to be looked at definitely.
Do you think however we've progressed since 2 years back? Squad wise? Attacking intent wise? I think we have. If Ole can iron out his inconsistencies he can achieve things here. Let's ser
Pleasantly surprised to see a nice debate going here as opposed to one sentence rants and overuse of hyperbole after defeats and draws. (and sometimes victory) If only we can maintain these levels of debate after losses without failing to the standard of calling out individual posters or worse our own players/managers - that'd be great. I understand how posts after defeats can be reactionary though
