Again, I don't take 6 games as the critical threshold, I don't see any reason to do so. Also, have taken first 10 games in all competitions, not just league. And you are happy to compile the results yourself.
No, once again our extremely shite start was 6 games long. Culminating with the Arsenal defeat. People then argued the reason for that was no pre-season.
Obviously after winning our last 3 games no one is “blaming” it on no pre-season so I assume the pre-season issue lasted 6 games no?
So I am happy to be educated that the argument of no pre-season holds weight, so show me how those teams did in their first 6 games and I’ll happily be educated.
I was wondering why you didn't respond and suddenly I thought you may have looked at the results after 6 games and that was actually the reason you were so quiet. So.....I had a few minutes today and I checked the results after 6 games:
Club
Wins
Draws
Losses
Points
Atalanta
4
0
2
12
PSG
4
0
2
12
Bayern
5
0
1
15
City
4
1
1
13
Leipzig
5
1
0
16
Lyon
1
4
1
7
Barcelona
3
1
2
10
Atletico
3
2
1
11
United
4
0
2
12
Sevilla
2
3
1
9
Inter
3
2
1
11
Shakhtar
3
3
0
12
Wolves
3
0
3
9
Basel
3
1
2
10
Copenhagen
2
1
3
7
Leverkuzen
3
3
0
12
What do you know!? There are only 3 clubs with better results than us in their first 6 games this season (Bayern, City and Leipzig). Another two with the same results (Atalanta and PSG) and two with same points but 3 draws and no losses (Shakhtar and Leverkuzen). Leaving 8 (EIGHT) clubs with worse starts than us (Lyon, Barcelona, Atletico, Sevilla, Inter, Wolves, Basel and Copenhagen).
So, are you going to apologise and admit you were writing nonsense?
surely a title challenge is determined by league position and not form?
Now I am not saying we have been good this season so far, but if we win our game in hand we go two points off top spot.
if by some miracle we are 2 points off top spot at the end of the season that’s a title challenge surely?
surely a title challenge is determined by league position and not form?
Now I am not saying we have been good this season so far, but if we win our game in hand we go two points off top spot.
if by some miracle we are 2 points off top spot at the end of the season that’s a title challenge surely?
Agreed. But historically as well we have had a history of starting seasons slowly and going on the offensive post Dec. If the problem persists it is an issue to be looked at definitely.
Do you think however we've progressed since 2 years back? Squad wise? Attacking intent wise? I think we have. If Ole can iron out his inconsistencies he can achieve things here. Let's ser
Yeah he's definitely progressed the squad and as long as Ole keeps on a certain trajectory then he has the right to see if he can step it up further.
There's not much leniency as a united manager though so unless he finds stability then he'll always entertain speculation. We've pulled out some key results recently so it's swung back.
Honestly I will be disappointed if come april we are not challenging for the title but are involved in the top 4 rat race only. This season is open. I doubt the PL winners would have 90 plus points. 85 odd points could win the title for a team. We should be there or there about.
we just need some consistency and hopefully stay free from serious injuries. It doesn’t look like city and liverpool can dominate like last year, so it’s really more competitive this time around. Our squad is not bad, still need to strengthen in a couple of positions, but good in general. We probably have the best player in the league now in bruno fernandes based on form.
The fact that you expect us to put up a title challenge in the season starting just 20 or so months after the mess Mourinho left us with - doesn't that say a lot about what a bloody miracle OGS has done at this club ?
that’s a proper argument right there! He’s done so much during the time he’s been at the club. Some people just don’t want to see it as he is not a “big” name.
that’s a proper argument right there! He’s done so much during the time he’s been at the club. Some people just don’t want to see it as he is not a “big” name.
People don't want to acknowledge it, but this plays a big part along with how the manager talks in the media. Managers who talk well in their media duties (Lampard, Arteta) always seemed to be rated higher than those who don't (Ole) even if their records say otherwise. This seems to influence both the fans and the pundits/journalists.
I'm fine with people being Ole out or Ole in, but it's tiring because it seems after every win Ole gets it's because the opposition is bad or due to the players. Ole never get any credit.
Does he have to win the league unbeaten with strictly academy players on 1000£ a week to win you over? A tactical masterclass every game with the U21?
"Anyone can win the league with that bunch of world-class talented academy players esp. as all of them are so level-headed taking only 1000£ a week salary."
Has absolutely transformed our squad in a way no previous manager did post fergie.
Went away to a very strong team today without Shaw, pogba, martial and lost de gea to injury.
Had replaced those players with Telles, Greenwood and van de beek, then brought on Henderson and Cavani. Sure enough it was this depth of quality that changed the game.
Ole in or ole out boils down to how you rate him as a coach and how far you think he can take this squad. What is not in any doubt whatsoever is that he has placed us in a way way better position than the rubbish we saw lining out in last days of mourinho, van gaal and moyes.
For this alone, he is comfortably our most successful post fergie appointment. A rebuild what was needed and he's the only one close to achieving it
Standards really went down the drain here. He won nothing so far. Maybe he will, who knows and then you can claim something like that but until he does he can't be put before Mourinho and even LVG.
People don't want to acknowledge it, but this plays a big part along with how the manager talks in the media. Managers who talk well in their media duties (Lampard, Arteta) always seemed to be rated higher than those who don't (Ole) even if their records say otherwise. This seems to influence both the fans and the pundits/journalists.
Standards really went down the drain here. He won nothing so far. Maybe he will, who knows and then you can claim something like that but until he does he can't be put before Mourinho and even LVG.
I wish it was just my weird thinking. It’s nothing to do with his playing days, even though many Ole-out posters like to say Ole-in posters are blinkered by his legend status.
Fans are extremely fickle, I believe at least some are influenced by oppo fans who like to think he’s shite, almost like they feel the need to agree with them so not to look silly down the pub.
Well tbh, oppo fans are delighted that he is our manager. All of them. Pool fans watching our games and they think; "If you lose great. If you win, great again. Ole stays".
It would be great to say to them "ha ha, who is laughing now" but i doubt that it will happen
I wish it was just my weird thinking. It’s nothing to do with his playing days, even though many Ole-out posters like to say Ole-in posters are blinkered by his legend status.
Fans are extremely fickle, I believe at least some are influenced by oppo fans who like to think he’s shite, almost like they feel the need to agree with them so not to look silly down the pub.
I think they are. It’s hard to argue if Ole was just that Norwegian manager who use to play for Bolton views would be a lot different than they are now.
On the opposition fan view. I don’t know about you but I have no care or need to say Arteta is crap unless I actually believe it.
I wish it was just my weird thinking. It’s nothing to do with his playing days, even though many Ole-out posters like to say Ole-in posters are blinkered by his legend status.
Fans are extremely fickle, I believe at least some are influenced by oppo fans who like to think he’s shite, almost like they feel the need to agree with them so not to look silly down the pub.
Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.
I think they are. It’s hard to argue if Ole was just that Norwegian manager who use to play for Bolton views would be a lot different than they are now.
On the opposition fan view. I don’t know about you but I have no care or need to say Arteta is crap unless I actually believe it.
People don't want to acknowledge it, but this plays a big part along with how the manager talks in the media. Managers who talk well in their media duties (Lampard, Arteta) always seemed to be rated higher than those who don't (Ole) even if their records say otherwise. This seems to influence both the fans and the pundits/journalists.
Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.
There are two teams who can take the piss and banter us, and that is Man City and Liverpool. We finished above the rest, and probably will again.
They can make as much meaningless noise as they want. Especially Leicester and Arsenal.
The latter part of your post. Wtf are you talking about?
Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.
Damn Ole trying to be Scottish. He was probably just nodding in agreement when SAF spoke. He is probably practicisng a thick Scottish accent infront of the mirror before going to bed, that he will try to ease in over the years so no one notices. Did you notice he looked at the time in extra-time versus Southampton? Fecking SAF wannabe. Soon enough Ole will introduce glasses and wear a black coat to every game, while speaking in a thick scottish accent and looking at his watch. What an arsehole.
Two sides to every story so to speak. There is a reason why every single opposition fan would love for us to give OGS a life-long contact, whilst at the same time never would have hired him themselves. They see our squad and really cannot understand why we are doing so poorly in attacking build-up, why we are catching up all the time instead of actually starting up top - why we are not a threat to anything these days. I'm tired of discussing him and have backed down from pointless arguments after a win, after a loss, the same people and the same, lame arguments (mine included I guess). We will see in the end, I am very confident we will sack him and then realize our squad is really good once a proper manager is handed the responsibility. Saying that, I would appreciate it a lot if he stopped saying things like "Look, the boys did really well" or "The boy has had a fantastic start to his career" and so on and so forth. The "boy" thing is extremely annoying (in my opinion) and even condescending. He just described Haaland as "the boy" in his latest interview, you can call him Erling or Haaland, the player even, skip the boy-bullshit, you're not from Scotland, you probably don't even understand a word when Sir Alex is talking to you.
Imo, his biggest problem is that he changes his mind after every defeat. He finds best 11, we play nicely, lose one game and he changes formation, lineup and approach.
Playing with AWB, McT and Fred at the same time is just too defensive and lacks creativity.
If you play diamond you don't need McT with Fred. VDB proved that he can do his defensive duties and offers so much in attack.
Play Fred, Bruno, Pogba and Vdb with Cavani and Rashford/Martial in attack. That team will dominate most of clubs.
Against Arse and Chelsea we lost points because we played too defensive despite having similiar (Chelsea) and much better squad (Arsenal).
I see Ole right now the same way I saw Martial last season - Good enough to keep us in top 4 but hasn't done enough to clear my doubts yet. But even with that I can't think of anybody currently attainable right now that suits us and will take us to the top
Standards really went down the drain here. He won nothing so far. Maybe he will, who knows and then you can claim something like that but until he does he can't be put before Mourinho and even LVG.
What was the point in their trophies though, when their successor had to rip it all up and start again. If I'm understanding you, if we fall off a cliff this year, into disarray but win a cup, solskjaer gets level with LVG? But if we keep improving, let's say finish 3rd and close, with a latter stage CL season, he stays behind him.
I just don't get why there is so much mistrust of Ole and a worry about consistency. Since the beginning of this (Calendar) year, United have outperformed Liverpool.
Just a quick look at results:
TEAM
PLAYED
WON
DRAWN
LOST
GOALS FOR
GOALS AGAINST
DIFFERENCE
GOALS FOR PER GAME AVG
GOALS AGAINST PER GAME AVG
MAN UTD
47
29 (61.7%)
8 (17%)
10 (21.3%)
99
43
+56
2.1
0.9
LIVERPOOL
42
26 (61.9%)
6 (14.3%)
10 (23.8%)
82
49
+33
1.9
1.1
You've played more games, have almost exactly the same win rate, have a vastly better goal difference and better goals per game for and against averages.
Yet a good proportion of your fan base are still adamantly Ole out, I just don't get it. I'll update this again at the end of the year but so far over 11 months, since Jan 1st 2020, you are matching if not beating, a tram and manager often held up as the very best in England, Europe and the world!
This is too big a sample to be down to "individual brilliance" and surely shows that tactically, though he has made mistakes, he knows what he is doing. I think it also shows that your defence and your attack are right up there.
So what more does Ole have to do to show he is capable of matching the best? or at the very least genuinely improving United and heading very much in the right direction?
L Arsenal 2 – Man Utd 0
D Wolves 0 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 1 – Man City 3
W Man Utd 4 – Norwich 0
W Man Utd 1 – Wolves 0
L Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
L Man Utd 0 – Burnley 2
W Tranmere 0 - Man Utd 6
W Man City 0 – Man Utd 1
D Man Utd 0 – Wolves 0
W Chelsea 0 – Man Utd 2
D Brugge 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Watford 0
W Man Utd 5 – Brugge 0
D Everton 1 – Man Utd 1
W Derby 0 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 2 – Man City 0
W LASK 0 - Man Utd 5
LOCK DOWN
D Tottenham 1 - Man Utd 1
W Man Utd 3 – Sheffield Utd 0
W Norwich 1 - Man Utd 2
W Brighton 0 – Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 5 – Bournemouth 2
W Aston Villa 0 - Man Utd 3
D Man Utd 2 – Southampton 2
W Palace 0 - Man Utd 2
L Man Utd 1 – Chelsea 3
D Man Utd 1 – West Ham 1
W Leicester 0 - Man Utd 2
W Man Utd 2 – LASK 1
W Man Utd 1 – Copenhagen 0
L Sevilla 2 - Man Utd 1
2020/21 SEASON
L Man Utd 1 – Palace 3
W Luton 0 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Brighton 0 - Man Utd 3
L Man Utd 1 – Spurs 6
W Newcastle 1 - Man Utd 4
W PSG 1 - Man Utd 2
D Man Utd 0 – Chelsea 0
W Man Utd 5 – Leipzig 0
L Man Utd 0 – Arsenal 1
L Istanbul 2 - Man Utd 1
W Everton 1 - Man Utd 3
W Man Utd 1 – West Brom 0
W Man Utd 4 – Istanbul 1
W Southampton 2 - Man Utd 3
W Liverpool 2 – Sheffield U 0
W Liverpool 1 – Everton 0
W Spurs 0 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 2 – Man Utd 0
W Wolves 1 – Liverpool 2
D Shrewsbury 2 – Liverpool 2
W West Ham 0 – Liverpool 2
W Liverpool 4 – Southampton 0
W Liverpool 1 – Shrewsbury 0
W Norwich 0 – Liverpool 1
L A Madrid 1 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 3 – West Ham 2
L Watford 3 – Liverpool 0
L Chelsea 2 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Bournemouth 1
L Liverpool 2 – A Madrid 3
LOCKDOWN
D Everton 0 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 4 – Palace 0
L Man City 4 – Liverpool 0
W Liverpool 2 – Aston Villa 0
W Brighton 1 – Liverpool 3
D Liverpool 1 – Burnley 1
L Arsenal 2 – Liverpool 1
W Liverpool 5 – Chelsea 3
W Newcastle 1 – Liverpool 3
2020/21 SEASON
L Arsenal 1 – Liverpool 1 (Liverpool lost on pens)
W Liverpool 4 – Leeds 3
W Chelsea 0 – Liverpool 2
W Lincoln 2 – Liverpool 7
W Liverpool 3 – Arsenal 1
L Liverpool 0 – Arsenal 0 (Liverpool lost on pens)
I'm fine with people being Ole out or Ole in, but it's tiring because it seems after every win Ole gets it's because the opposition is bad or due to the players. Ole never get any credit.
Does he have to win the league unbeaten with strictly academy players on 1000£ a week to win you over? A tactical masterclass every game with the U21?
To be fair this is something both sides (including myself) have been guilty of;
Ole In:
Win - The guy clearly knows tactics & coaching
Lose - Look at the shit players he has to deal with, anybody would struggle to win with them
Ole Out:
Win - Relying on individual brilliance
Lose - Couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, as so often is.
Its unusual because based on his first full season, we’ve probably seen some of the best and worst runs, so anyone can pick a period and twist it to suit their agenda.
The key now is building on these wins and not revert to type with a drab loss next game. It’s not necessarily about winning all the time but showing conviction even on the games we don’t win. Instead of looking clueless and lethargic.
I am just not getting the confidence that we would win the big titles under Ole. I sure hope we don't dither when a name like Rose, Nagelsmann, Hassenhutl or even Jesse Marsch becomes available. I sure hope we don't regret not going after Pochettino.
Before we played PSG on March 2019, we defeated Southampton 3-2. After the win at PSG, our season went down the gutter. Hopefully, we have a different outcome this time after winning tomorrow.
Well tbh, oppo fans are delighted that he is our manager. All of them. Pool fans watching our games and they think; "If you lose great. If you win, great again. Ole stays".
It would be great to say to them "ha ha, who is laughing now" but i doubt that it will happen
To be fair all the rival fans are hoping he stays in charge. They think he's the perfect manager because he wins enough not to get sacked and drops enough points to stay mediocre.
What was the point in their trophies though, when their successor had to rip it all up and start again. If I'm understanding you, if we fall off a cliff this year, into disarray but win a cup, solskjaer gets level with LVG? But if we keep improving, let's say finish 3rd and close, with a latter stage CL season, he stays behind him.
To be fair all the rival fans are hoping he stays in charge. They think he's the perfect manager because he wins enough not to get sacked and drops enough points to stay mediocre.
So your definition of mediocre is 3rd in the league, beating PSG away twice, and then destroying Leipzig 5-0 ?
Not to mention beating City and Chelsea 3 times each in a season
With that definition - every single team apart from maybe Liverpool is mediocre
Damn Ole trying to be Scottish. He was probably just nodding in agreement when SAF spoke. He is probably practicisng a thick Scottish accent infront of the mirror before going to bed, that he will try to ease in over the years so no one notices. Did you notice he looked at the time in extra-time versus Southampton? Fecking SAF wannabe. Soon enough Ole will introduce glasses and wear a black coat to every game, while speaking in a thick scottish accent and looking at his watch. What an arsehole.