1 point more, but they've played a game more as well
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Please enlighten me, which PL clubs had no Pre season and did better?
Lack of match fitness not just down to pre season but down to the fact that players just came back from holiday a week before season started. While players from other teams came back to training earlier than us because their season finished before us. Notice how the ones that didn’t have enough preparation due to Europa league & CL had slow start? Inter, PSG, Sevilla, City & us. Well, you didn’t know right?
I said already its way to early to tell about van der Beek as he has played only 175 mins of PL football. Right now he deserves to start for us, but he has shown nowhere near enough for anyone to claim hes a banged on top 4 player.
Timo Werner was one of the hottest strikers in Europe and a massive signing. There really is no comparisons here
Still find it funny that Inter are about to not quality for the KO stage of the CL... I think PSG, Sevilla, City and us are still managing it. PSG, we will see on Wed.
@Regulus Arcturus Black
1. Our main issue was creating chances. With Pogba injured, we only had Lingard, Pereira and Mata. Ole had 3 choices, and none of them would have solved our problem: play a very defensive midfield 3, play 4-4-2 with shite wingers or play Lingard/Pereira/Mata. He generally went for the latter, and I don't blame him. This is all besides the point though. Even if you think he should have done better with that team, my point is that a United manager should never have to go long-term with such a poor midfield(and attack for that matter). The job of a United manager is to keep a great team great. Not make a mediocre team good.
2. City and Bayern are other examples of teams that played European football and started worse than their normal level. City have actually been worse than us!
3. Still waiting for other good arguments.
1. Our main issue was creating chances. With Pogba injured, we only had Lingard, Pereira and Mata. Ole had 3 choices, and none of them would have solved our problem: play a very defensive midfield 3, play 4-4-2 with shite wingers or play Lingard/Pereira/Mata. He generally went for the latter, and I don't blame him. This is all besides the point though. Even if you think he should have done better with that team, my point is that a United manager should never have to go long-term with such a poor midfield(and attack for that matter). The job of a United manager is to keep a great team great. Not make a mediocre team good.
2. City and Bayern are other examples of teams that played European football and started worse than their normal level. City have actually been worse than us!
3. Still waiting for other good arguments.
And DVB wasn’t one of the hottest midfielders in Europe and a massive signing that even Real Madrid wanted? Real even had an agreement in place until Covid forced them out of it.
There were more clubs with interest, such as Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, Juventus and Arsenal. There were six in total.
If you judge other players completely differently to how you judge United players, no wonder you think we’re a squad of shite.
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There are still a number of fans who will take the next draw, or the next defeat, and say 'see, we are still inconsistent' without looking at the wider picture. As point 2 shows we are a consistent team right now, over quite a long period of time, with (hopefully) no signs of that slowing down. The team are finding ways to win when things go against us - and they will sometimes go against us. Its encouraging, and the more it happens the more that confidence will grow and performances will improve.
That's a fair enough point and true. For my part though it isn't necessarily the results I want to see consistency in. It's the general performances and yes, it seems like it's getting better so let's hope this continues, I'm all for it!
This is very good to see. The Southampton game was one of my favourite games in ages for this very reason.
Imagine that Diallo comes into the team and looks like the player so many people seem to think that he is. The possibilities are exciting, and the way that this team is set up is perfect for a player in that position. This team naturally seem more comfortable playing on the left side of the pitch. We overload it, and it creates a ton of space on the other side. I realise I'm getting way ahead of myself here, but it doesn't hurt to be excited by that.
I disagree with you about our squad. I have said this before, Chelsea spent those money last summer just to level their starting XI to ours. Overall, we have equal staring XI. They probably only better in squad depth quality.
As for Spurs, we have better midfield, same defense but their attacks Kane & Son are miles better than us.
Only City & Liverpool without Van Dijk have better squad than ours overall which is why we are still minimum 1-2 top players off to challenge them based on squad quality. I never in doubt in Ole that he will be able to back on track and capable to catch Chelsea and Spurs, we have done this before last season. Our start of this season so far was just unfortunate that we didn’t have enough preparation due to more than 10 players in our first team squad only came back in training a week before the season starts due to our season finished late, unlike other teams, they came back in training earlier.
In this season more than any before, its going to be priceless to be able to grind out victories. There are too many games to reasonably expect consistently strong performances.
The vote has never represented the view of the whole forum. It will always be biased towards the knee jerkers after a bad result and all those those that rant in here. You only have to look at the top post counts on this thread to see the bias.
It's like product reviews on the Internet, the vast majority will be content with their purchase and feel no need to review one way or the other online. Those with the worst experience are more likely to shout about it.
There will be a majority like me who have never voted because it's never even been a decision to make.
As I was advised by another poster, I'll just pass on the same - it's pointless debating with this guy. Hint is in the username.
Agreed
Disagreed. Performance isn't just the visual appeal of the play or the result. Performance is also the attitude and the spirit. I expect spirit and attitude every match regardless of whether the performance or the result match. I can forgive a loss or a disjointed performance as long as I see desire and determination. I will say that in this respect we are currently doing it so I'm not just having a go here, it's all looking good.
Rashford matched his output last year playing from the left and just look at their numbers this year. Rashford, even when playing shite manages to produce something during a game. One is at 8/3 at age 23, where as the other one is at 2/1 at age 25 + a red card and a own goal
Ah, so now stats matter. When we discussed the fact OGS has a pathetic points tally to finish 3rd, apparently that was out of context.
Anyone watching Rashford and Martial can clearly see who is the better player overall. Rashford has been dreadful for ages and he literally pops up with a random goal out of nowhere but he doesn't help the general play of the team. Think of Benzema and how good he was for Real.
You hilariously focus on a bad start of the season for Martial while forgetting he was super consistent and solid last season while Rashford was awful beyond his numbers, which included half a season of penalties.
But keep using your laughing emojis, I'm sure they really support your logic.
Just look at the first goal against Southampton. Cavani staying wide = providing already options for us to pass the ball there.
I do not think Ole is enough, but he probably deserves a season. If we win nothing and no CL final then he deserves the sack.
We need a top coach to win the big things.
We need a top coach to win the big things.
We're on the same page then. I was commenting on what you refer to here as a visually appealing performance. We'll have those, but not consistently.
Yes, absolutely we should be able to see the right attitude from the players, and for me that's been one of the keys things about Ole's player recruitment that doesn't get the wider credit that it should do. We now have a spine of leaders in this team, and we haven't had that for years. That culture will not just be on the pitch. It'll be on the training field and in the dressing room, and it will drag this team up. Its hard to pick out any of Jose's or LVG's signings and call that player a leader (Zlatan aside).
Good post! And and we are lucky if we have a full squad against PSG, because there where some ugly knocks and a lot of them. Even after all that, they fight their way back and win. If we can’t respect how much the payers shown they want this, football Is dying. That has always been the one thing fans wanted to see. Now they only want to be individually right in something.
100% agree on this. While some of these players aren't the best in their respective positions, I am happy to make that concession because for me I am happy with their character, effort and honesty on the pitch. A long way from a few years back where I was really struggling to match my love for the club with any kind of love for the players themselves. Not so now, there are players I can fully get behind all over the pitch and that alone makes watching us more enjoyable.
Who gives a toss about points? No one will care if someone wins the league with 70 points or 90 points, its irrelevant really
Are you really suggesting productivity in terms of goals and assists dont matter for a forward? And i agree with the bolded part. Its Rashford. Both of them are streaky players, the big difference is that Rashford has a much higher bottom level so even when he plays shite like he did yesterday he can produce deciding moments of quality where as Martial just drifts out and is barely noticeable.
And no, i dont have some kind of agenda here. I really hope Martial turns it around and delivers, but hes 25 in a few days so he should really be entering his prime years now where inconsistencies like that become much rarer occurrences than they are with him
Come on. I like Donny, but lets not pretend he was the hottest youngster around. Just take a look at these two:
Link1
Link 2
Considering the usual transfer muppetry i'd say those two threads are pretty lukewarm. Besides, Ajax selling a 20something talent happens on a yearly basis, so the fact that Real and other big clubs were sniffing around is not exactly uncommon
And for the record, i dont think the squad is shite, but its not good enough to challenge for the league, which was the question at hand
You are getting the halland info wrong,
Wasnt Ole who couldnt convince, it was the terms of the contract where minimum 50mil buy out clause was required and the club walked away. For once I think they got this one right.
Dortmund have no issues with it. Tidy bit of profit for them, where as we dont like selling out stars so that been a messy outcome at some stage if the player decided to want to go to Madrid or a club of his dreams.
Very difficult game. They where going in hard and getting away with a lot of shite. Are we heading in the right direction and where you impressed?
No I’m not @Flexdegea, Ole couldn’t convince him to ignore the buy out option and join United. Nothing is “required” in a contract but in order to join Dortmund, his management team rightly requested it in order to a) prevent Dortmund from pricing him out of a move and b) to ensure the price is set low so that all clubs in Europe are interested and will start a bidding war for his wages and signing on fee (and agent fee of course).
As I said, neither United nor Ole’s fault, nor the player himself.
Dortmund for 3 years is a great place to grow and as I said, when it gets to release clause time it’s €€€€€€€€€ for Haaland. Seriously silly money.
Was an incredible move for him and it’s proven to 100% be the right move for his career, no idea why anyone wants to blame the club or Ole for not convincing him to do otherwise.
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Every team that lacked a proper pre-season had the same rocky start to the season. "plenty" of teams didn't play semi finals in Europe late August. This is a peculiar re-writing of history.
Well calling the 16th August “late August” isn’t rewriting history, it’s rewriting the calendar @Tom Cato. The Quarter finals were just 5 days earlier with plenty of teams in them.
CL quarter finals were the same week as the EL semis, and I’d say 16 is “plenty” Tom.
Atalanta, PSG, Bayern, City, Leipzig, Lyon, Barca, Atletico, United, Seville, Inter, Shakhtar, Wolves, Basel, Copenhagen, Leverkusen.
How many of those 16 won only 2 of their first 6 league games? Maybe you have a point Tom, educate me cause I don’t follow enough footy outside of United these days.
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I find the first argument baffling considering the knock against him is the points dropped to the bottom 10 during the Brunoless portion of last season. Completely invalidates the oh but he had to make do with lesser players argument
though this is the right mentality and realistic expectations (ideally), it is not fair at this stage. You’re right, manchester united is about winning. We were used to winning under sir alex. But we are currently building a team. Let’s not go harsh on a manager who is building a proper young talented squad. Needs a couple of transfer windows I guess still (hoping we make the right signings).
No, that never happened.
Oh this is gonna be fun....
Oh right so now its Ole fault who couldnt convince him of dropping the buy out clause, clause his agent wanted.
So the board walked away as it's a huge risk with a buy out and offers club no protection.
But its Ole fault, especially since another club took buy out route.........get you
To be honest not sure your point. You said Ole couldnt convince him to drop the buy out, and then at end saying it's no one fault
I dont think anyone really knows the truth with Haaland. No doubt we wanted him badly, but i couldn't see us agreeing to a buy-out clause and Raiola was back there pulling all the strings. No doubt he convinced the player that's its better for him long term to do what he did, and he's probably right
United 1 - 2 C. Palace
Lingard starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad
Wolves 1 - 1 United
Lingard starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad.
Southampton 1 - 1 United
Andreas starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad.
United 1 - 1 Arsenal
ANDREAS AND LINGARD START. FRED & MATIC ON BENCH
My argument was always that he did have better options but chose not to use them, such as moving Pogba to his Juventus role, dropping Lingard or Andreas and bringing in Matic
As I say, he learned his lesson in fairness and by the Burnley game in December he started pairing Matic and Fred and reducing the game time of Andreas and Lingard.
Lingard starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad
Wolves 1 - 1 United
Lingard starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad.
Southampton 1 - 1 United
Andreas starts, Pogba at DM. Matic on bench. Fred not in squad.
United 1 - 1 Arsenal
ANDREAS AND LINGARD START. FRED & MATIC ON BENCH
My argument was always that he did have better options but chose not to use them, such as moving Pogba to his Juventus role, dropping Lingard or Andreas and bringing in Matic
As I say, he learned his lesson in fairness and by the Burnley game in December he started pairing Matic and Fred and reducing the game time of Andreas and Lingard.
To be honest not sure your point. You said Ole couldn’t convince him to drop the buy out, and then at end saying it's no one fault
It’s not a difficult point to understand. It’s no-ones fault. No-one can force Haaland to do something he doesn’t want to.
He had an incredible deal at Dortmund, the perfect stepping stone.
Ole couldn’t convince him otherwise. Why does that have to be anyone’s fault?
The deal was tremendous, even as United fan, in his shoes I’d have taken it.
He’s proven so far to be bang on.
Its hard to know for sure, because we don't know what could have happened, but its always smart for a player with his talent to map out a career path and stick with it. Still feels like a future United player to me.
He had one serious big option aside from Dortmund, United, a side that has been struggling to remain consistent and competitive for years now.
Or Dortmund, guaranteed CL every year and guaranteed to win the majority of games in the BL.
After 2 more years he’ll have Barca, Madrid, Juve, Chelsea, PSG, United, Bayern, Liverpool, City all bidding for his signature and throwing money at him.
Not sure how you can deny it was a brilliant move for him and the right decision at his age and development.
I'm not sure he is. Because he scores lot of goals? He would do that wherever he would play. But he would have better chance winning something with us. As long as Bayern Munchen is in Germany, they will win pretty much every year. And in Europe there chances are even smaller.
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