Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Foxbatt]

Ole's problem is that he has never coached at top level and nothing he has done shows it. People can talk about Pep or Zidane and if they had done what Ole is doing at United they would have been sacked from Barca and Real instantly.
You need a vision and have an idea how to implement the way your team wants to play. Jose is doing it at Spurs. Klopp at liverpool and Pep at City and Biesla at Leeds too.
Maguire is not a player who can play in a team with a high defense line. He would be brilliant in a Jose side.
Ole just sits on his arse while the players do what they want on the pitch. We might as well get Mark Hughes to manage United. After all he has played at United, Barca, Bayern and Chelsea. And managed much bigger clubs than Ole has before United. He knows United very well too. Worked under better top coaches than Ole has.
Not saying we should but wanted to show the absurdity of keeping Ole because he won the CL with United.

 

[Kajus]

People bemoaning his transfers yet he's signed the best player at the club currently and also tried to sign Haaland, Sancho n Grealish. 3 players that vast majority on here would love at the club. Ed didn't get him one of them but let's blame Ole.

He's been given money to spend but it's clear it's not been on the players he really wanted. VDB looks like he's been forced on him. Cavani signed on deadline day shows he wasn't part of any plan. And this kid from Atalanta was signed so late we didn't even get a work permit sorted for him.

The real issue is Woodward. The evidence is undeniable but it doesn't fit with the agenda of some fans.

Right after the transfer window closed, there were a lot of articles talking about this and the consensus was that Ole can’t be blamed for being completely let down in the transfer market and that the board’s incompetence, lack of ambition and failure to build on the previous year’s success completely destroyed the morale and motivation within the squad. Funny how that lasted entire 20 minutes before all of that was Ole’s fault.

 

[Kajus]

Ole doesn't make the fees up, he doesnt tell Ed Woodward who is worth what money. Let me give you example. Lampard wanted Chilwel, spoke to him and what not, Leicester wanted £80m and Chelsea paid £50m because they have a good structure.

It is totally on Matt Judge on Ed Woodward what they pay for players, the manager says these are the players.

Secondly, we did not pay the same fee for Bruno 6 months later because they were asking for £60m in the summer and we paid £45m plus add ons. Again, if Ole didnt want Bruno, why is he always in the team?

As we have seen again and again with Ed Woodward, he is a specialist in failing the manager.
Happens every time with every manager, yet fans like you blame the managers not the baord.

Ole did not want Bruno and was dead against this transfer. He’s only playing him because Bruno is good. What he wanted was Maguire, and he insisted on spending at least 80M on him or no deal. He did not know of James back when he was in great form at the start of last season, that one was all Giggs. However, as it turns out now, this one was all Ole. Whether Ole wanted AWB is still undetermined and depends on whether he will turn out good. Ole is also at fault for my car breaking down yesterday, as there were no play patterns of identity style or some other nonsensical buzzword of the month.

 

[shaky]

Not saying we should but wanted to show the absurdity of keeping Ole because he won the CL with United.

Can you point to one single person who has suggested keeping Ole on just because he won the CL with Utd? Thought not.

 

[VP89]

I'm talking about how fans are afraid of another change in manager. How fans have this strong belief that changing the manager again means we are in an endless cycle. You really don't hear that from other fans of top clubs. Our fans find it difficult to swallow the possibility of a 4th manager failing here in 7-8years and I think this is because of how successful we were under Fergie for so long.

Ah right, Gotchya

 

[romufc]

I'm talking about how fans are afraid of another change in manager. How fans have this strong belief that changing the manager again means we are in an endless cycle. You really don't hear that from other fans of top clubs. Our fans find it difficult to swallow the possibility of a 4th manager failing here in 7-8years and I think this is because of how successful we were under Fergie for so long.

We only are in this endless cycle if we make the change too late. The reason why other clubs don't enter this cycle is because they have footballing people who make the change before it hits rock bottom.

We make decisions after its all gone to crap.

We should make as many managerial changes as required if that means we win the league.

I like Ole and will back him, its not his fault he is in this position, I will still say in my opinion I don't think he can win the league.

Which is why If we change manager's I wouldnt really complain, neither should Ole because he has had enough time to try and implement his style.

If I take it back a year ago, we have make 0 progress in footballing terms. I know we got 3rd but last season we started of with a 4-0 win and then played 2 games V Southampton and Wolves where we looked good and then it went to wrong.

This season, played 2 good games v PSG and Leipzig and its starting to go wrong.

 

[Foxbatt]

Can you point to one single person who has suggested keeping Ole on just because he won the CL with Utd? Thought not.

Just go back and have a look at the posts. He is a legend at United ( I agree) He has won everything at United. True. He knows the club. True also. These are the things they keep saying. These are not the reasons why a manager has to be appointed.

 

[Zlaatan]

They don't want to hear the truth.

They want him sacked before he's even had a chance to fail. Ole hasn't failed at anything as of yet. Only 1 full season and he got 3rd. This new season is barely started and they want him out.

If we finish outside of the top 4 then they will have a case. Until then it's just moaning for sake of moaning. The way back to the top is a long road. There's no magic solution sadly.

I don't get this sentiment that we should have to wait until a manager fails to come to the conclusion that he's not the right man for the job, Ole has been here for two years now which should be plenty of time for everyone to figure out what he's trying to do to improve the team and if it's moving enough in the right direction. Some say yes and some say no, and saying no is hardly as absurd as you're trying to make it out to be which should be fairly obvious if you look at anything other than last seasons league position.

 

[united for life]

Thanks for the straw man.

He's only had £190m in 2 years on top of the existing squad, how can he possibly be expected to achieve anything with that?

were on course for our worst points total in history for the majority of the season, and got bailed out by the covid delay, Bruno and Leicester's capitulation. We were in the top 4 for one whole week of the season, the end. I'm glad we made it, but your definition of 'really well' is different to mine it seems.

If there was evidence that we were progressing, then I would be willing to be more patient and give him more time, but there's not. You don't give time for times sake. You earn it.

If the next manager is showing no signs of progression after 2 years and hundreds of millions, then yes you get rid of him off too, until someone eventually gets it right.

what do you mean? Isn’t football about signing good players who deliver and win you games? Should we scrap the signing of Bruno and not count his goals?

given the situation, it was a good season last year overall (given the situation. Not manchester united standard).

unfortunately players’ values now are crazy. We signed Rio for 30 million and had to pay 80 million for harry. This is how the transfer market goes these days.

i dont agree to just give a manager 1 season to get us back to were we were under sir alex. That’s just wrong mate

 

[SAFMUTD]

I wasn’t saying Ole is better in any way, that would be utter rubbish. I suppose I was just comparing his focus on what we needed. Of those players you list I’d really only say DDG, RVP and maybe Young were outstanding buys and prices back then were almost impossible to relate to current prices.

It wasn’t a literal comparison at all. I’m just a fan of the type of player Ole has brought in.

I agree we can't really compare prices since the market has inflated a lot, but we can compare the players "status", DDG was a promising keeper, RVP was a star but besides that all the other ones were either promising or unknown. Do we really needed Ole, or any other manager, to spot Maguire, AWB and Bruno? I mean its not like we unearthed some gems, we actually overpaid for the first two and Bruno, while being a bet, was highly recognized in Portugal.

All I'm saying is that Ole isnt anything special on signings, if Pellestri and Diallo turn out to be stars then we can start to give him merit, but as of today it would be like prasing Lampard for his wonderful scouting abilities.

 

[Random Task]

Ole did not want Bruno and was dead against this transfer. He’s only playing him because Bruno is good. What he wanted was Maguire, and he insisted on spending at least 80M on him or no deal.

Sounds like a load of tosh to me.

Can you back it up?

 

[romufc]

Sounds like a load of tosh to me.

Can you back it up?

I think the poster was being sarcastic

 

[AshRK]

I don't think it has anything to do with Sir Alex Ferguson or being spoilt up until 2012.

If you look at the facts, and assume we started from 2012, look at our stature as one of the richest clubs in the world, biggest club in England and our sheer pull - then consider we have failed to muster a single title challenge in 8 years despite spending one of the most out of anyone + changing philosophies every 3 years - you'd be struggling to argue against reasonable frustration.

It's got nothing to do with Sir Alex Ferguson. After he left football, a small club like Leicester won in 2016, Chelsea won with Conte debuting in the league, Liverpool won under Klopp with a tiny net spend and Pelligrini was winning titles too. We did nothing whilst we saw other clubs mount a challenge at least once. We spend and spend, we chop and change philosophies and now we are seeing what is quite literally a punt on an ex-player trying to navigate the club against the 2 best managers in the world. It's got feck all to do with being spoilt. It's everything to do with poor decisions and an inefficient allocation of resources.

And whose fault is that. Surely it has be beyond the manager. 8 years and the common denominator is one guy WOODWARD.

 

[Random Task]

I think the poster was being sarcastic

Oh.

Woops.

 

[united for life]

Sacking managers until you get one competent manager that win you the league seems to be working with other top teams eg. Chelsea, Pool and City.

Were they satisfied with the many managers who helped them get as high as top 4 or even 2nd places?
Nope. Arsenal is also showing sign of adapting this approach, maybe.

Could it be Pool is more patient with Klopp because they notice the good work he's doing behind the scene along with on pitch football actually getting praises from their fans and general football fans alike, and then clear improvements on the pitch came soon after? Many of their problems of seasons before they managed to solved it in later seasons isn't it.

Same thing with Spurs too I suppose, until Poch can no longer improve them further. They have been climbing higher and higher over the many seasons. I still remember they're battling for the sweet 4th place and battle for top 6 before that.

Interestingly I notice only United fans among the top clubs is reluctant to replace the managers quickly because of some (United way BS or using Klopp case study as a comparison) and there are clear signs of more and more United fans accepting just top 4 than you know... trying to win the damn thing.

Since when is top 3 or rather the 3rd best team good?
Since when is "we're not going to be relegated" good?
Since when is "we're good at beating top teams" but "terrible getting the pts vs majority of the teams" good?

Ole's reign so far is more on to... uhh just some results based? Which isn't really that good but spin the stats all you want to show "improvements". The football remains inconsistent and hell even getting more and more boring. Many players are also getting worse (so suddenly Ole is no longer good in improving players?), and plenty of problems of seasons before still remains in the 3rd season and ongoing. More and more excuses are also being commented by both manager and players... and of course by fans who still believe.

It's just wishful thinking by the fans to want Ole to turn up like Klopp. Embarassing how low the standards have fallen and still hoping Ole will be the savior.

Though I respect your view and passion presenting it, I do not agree with it.

Sacking managers for 30 years until we win the league next is not a smart option mate. Also, I won't call united "reluctant to replace the managers". Ole became our 4th manager in 5 years. How is that reluctant in replacing managers? However, this is not the solution.

I am not happy we finished third, not the aspiration of a fan who has been supporting the team for 24 years. But we need to be realistic in setting expectations. We can put the EPL and CL as targets to win them. Yes we can. We can put a target of winning everything this year. Although this is how Manchester United should be, unfortunately we are not that team now. Not that team yet. We need to be realistic in terms of what we currently have, how we compare to other teams and what we can achieve.

Out of all managers after sir Alex, I see Ole's football most exciting. Yes, inconsistent and this is something Ole needs to ensure he fix urgently. This is what our ask of him should be. He needs to fix it, but we need to back him and give him time to do that. Not sack him and hire Poch to sack him again a year later.

Again, finishing 3rd last year was a good result (not proud of that, but realistically, it was a good result). What we should've done is invest better in the transfer window to build on that and improve our thin, young squad. Unfortunately, we didn't do well in the transfer market. This will make the process more challenging for any manager.

 

[VP89]

And whose fault is that. Surely it has be beyond the manager. 8 years and the common denominator is one guy WOODWARD.

Obviously, Woodward is a big reason behind that. The main one.

That's independent from Ole being the right man or not though.

 

[AshRK]

I look at this chelsea side and man they have strengthed immensely. It's sad how both united and Chelsea finished similar on points but one team decided to act like a big club and the other are just dithering once again.

 

[hobbers]

As we have seen again and again with Ed Woodward, he is a specialist in failing the manager.
Happens every time with every manager, yet fans like you blame the managers not the baord.

No, I blame Ole for the team not turning up on the pitch. And not performing to the standards its easily capable of with or without more signings.

Moyes had money available to spend, obviously, because we were desperately trying to sign Fabregas and Bale, it's HIS fault we didn't look at anyone else, not Woodward's. Woodward failed to deliver on targets, but you don't need to be an experienced top level manager to know that signing players like Fabregas and Bale, or Sancho today, is not easy and never guaranteed.

All our failed managers had hundreds of millions available to them and they have all spent badly. Woodward and Judge are abysmal at their jobs but you have to be wildly deluded to think they should also have the blame for not picking the right transfer targets and not looking at fall back options, that's not in their remit.

We ended the last transfer window with a midfielder Ole clearly wasn't particularly interested in, and a striker who's beyond past-it. We can split hairs over who is more responsible but there is zero chance Ole is blameless in that.

 

[LJJT]

Another fine performance, another great team selection and yet more options and ways to play for the team. Top of the group of death in champs league, content within the chasing pack in the prem and doing better than this stage last year. Feels like progress to me.....

 

[RUCK4444]

Another fine performance, another great team selection and yet more options and ways to play for the team. Top of the group of death in champs league, content within the chasing pack in the prem and doing better than this stage last year. Feels like progress to me.....

This, I totally agree.

I honestly believe we are a top DM away from cracking the consistency we need.

Ole has proven he can get a tune out of this team, a fine tune at that, we just need to crack that consistency.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

This, I totally agree.

I honestly believe we are a top DM away from cracking the consistency we need.

Ole has proven he can a tune out of this team, a fine tune at that, we just need to crack that consistency.

We may be going through a spell where we are in search of the best 11 that can work against different teams. We have a squad filled with players of different skillets suited for different situations. And our weaknesses right now are low blocks and an organised collective press. If we can find the right 11 suited for these two situations I believe we will find consistency

 

[Flexdegea]

Solid return to champs league.


When draw was made, looked like group of death. But we seem to the pick of the group at the moment.


Just need good run in league. First 11 out tonight looked strong on paper and on the pitch

 

[OrcaFat]

Ole did not want Bruno and was dead against this transfer. He’s only playing him because Bruno is good. What he wanted was Maguire, and he insisted on spending at least 80M on him or no deal. He did not know of James back when he was in great form at the start of last season, that one was all Giggs. However, as it turns out now, this one was all Ole. Whether Ole wanted AWB is still undetermined and depends on whether he will turn out good. Ole is also at fault for my car breaking down yesterday, as there were no play patterns of identity style or some other nonsensical buzzword of the month.

Great post. Funny and true. (Well not “true” obviously but your point rings true).

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Very good win tonight. Played some good stuff I think. Hopefully we can do the same vs Southampton next.

 

[RUCK4444]

We may be going through a spell where we are in search of the best 11 that can work against different teams. We have a squad filled with players of different skillets suited for different situations. And our weaknesses right now are low blocks and an organised collective press. If we can find the right 11 suited for these two situations I believe we will find consistency

I think we are and it stems from midfield and the fact we have plenty of box to box players and 10’s but only Matic as the only true DM.

I believe we need that dominant DM, top level, who we can rely on to screen the back four, this would in effect allow the rest of the starting 11 to pick itself.

I would gamble and go huge for Camavinga (if we stand any chance of getting him that is.)

 

[Foxbatt]

I haven't changed my mind. He simply isn't good enough for a top club.

 

[Rightnr]

We still have no discernable style of play that endures with a changed squad. Just look what happens when Bruno comes off. The guy has literally carried OGS's job's fate since he's come here.

Just think. Could we get anywhere the same results (which have still been poor) if we faced the disruption Liverpool have faced? The obvious answer is no because we do not have a clear way of playing which, while it might suffer with injuries, will persist and deliver results on most occasions. That comes down squarely to coaching, contrary to what some attacking-players-dont-need-coaching people have claimed above. This is no longer Henry's time and football has moved on.

Honestly, if Bruno is injured (sure hope not) for any sort of significant period of time (month or more), Ole will be out of a job before Bruno recovers.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Very good win tonight. Played some good stuff I think. Hopefully we can do the same vs Southampton next.

I think quite a few are getting carried away and don't actually realize how rubbish Istabul Fc really are.

 

[FatherWolff]

I think quite a few are getting carried away and don't actually realize how rubbish Istabul Fc really are.

Please enlighten us! How crap are they? What are their strengths and weakness? And if you can elaborate how you came to this conclusion, how crap they are, we will all be wiser! Maybe not even be carried away. Although I don’t feel that way.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Please enlighten us! How crap are they? What are their strengths and weakness? And if you can elaborate how you came to this conclusion, how crap they are, we will all be wiser! Maybe not even be carried away. Although I don’t feel that way.

Well to put this into perspective compared to us they spent 6.5m on transfers this summer and that was for three players. 2m a player.

That 6.5m also happens to be the most they have ever spent.

They have never played in the champions league before.
They have never won or drawn in the champions league, or even scored in the champions league exept against us. And obviously lost both their other games against psg and leipzig without even scoring.

 

[FatherWolff]

Well to put this into perspective compared to us they spent 6.5m on transfers this summer and that was for three players. 2m a player.

That 6.5m also happens to be the most they have ever spent.

They have never played in the champions league before.
They have never won or drawn in the champions league, or even scored in the champions league exept against us. And obviously lost both their other games against psg and leipzig without even scoring.

That was not what I asked, and it didn’t put anything into perspective. I advise you to watch their game against PSG. And maybe their last domestic matches. Maybe even watch the game they played against us. Watch closely when they have their little spells, how hard they are and how fast they move the ball. For a shit team I mean. I will never understand the need for putting out crap like you just did! Of course we are a better team. A lot better. But don’t be a smug pretending you know something you don’t, only to put our manager and team down.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

That was not what I asked, and it didn’t put anything into perspective. I advise you to watch their game against PSG. And maybe their last domestic matches. Maybe even watch the game they played against us. Watch closely when they have their little spells, how hard they are and how fast they move the ball. For a shit team I mean. I will never understand the need for putting out crap like you just did! Of course we are a better team. A lot better. But don’t be a smug pretending you know something you don’t, only to put our manager and team down.

They are a shite team. Not comparable to us in any way. Championship level. Makes sense they are also 60 positions below us in the club rankings. We should beat that level a team comfortably which is what we did. Thus I won’t get carried away.

 

[cptkeane1993]

That was not what I asked, and it didn’t put anything into perspective. I advise you to watch their game against PSG. And maybe their last domestic matches. Maybe even watch the game they played against us. Watch closely when they have their little spells, how hard they are and how fast they move the ball. For a shit team I mean. I will never understand the need for putting out crap like you just did! Of course we are a better team. A lot better. But don’t be a smug pretending you know something you don’t, only to put our manager and team down.

Well said.

Good win today and great selections and rotations from Ole. As for our opponents, they had a respectable outing this year in their first season and I suspect they will be back again next season.

 

[FatherWolff]

They are a shite team. Not comparable to us in any way. Championship level. Makes sense they are also 60 positions below us in the club rankings. We should beat that level a team comfortably which is what we did. Thus I won’t get carried away.

No one is getting carried away. But you don’t half ass know what you are talking about.

 

[JakeC]

They are a shite team. Not comparable to us in any way. Championship level. Makes sense they are also 60 positions below us in the club rankings. We should beat that level a team comfortably which is what we did. Thus I won’t get carried away.

They're well above Championship level dude.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

No one is getting carried away. But you don’t half ass know what you are talking about.

Alright then.

 

[cptkeane1993]

Ole did not want Bruno and was dead against this transfer. He’s only playing him because Bruno is good. What he wanted was Maguire, and he insisted on spending at least 80M on him or no deal. He did not know of James back when he was in great form at the start of last season, that one was all Giggs. However, as it turns out now, this one was all Ole. Whether Ole wanted AWB is still undetermined and depends on whether he will turn out good. Ole is also at fault for my car breaking down yesterday, as there were no play patterns of identity style or some other nonsensical buzzword of the month.

 

[meamth]

We still have no discernable style of play that endures with a changed squad. Just look what happens when Bruno comes off. The guy has literally carried OGS's job's fate since he's come here.

Just think. Could we get anywhere the same results (which have still been poor) if we faced the disruption Liverpool have faced? The obvious answer is no because we do not have a clear way of playing which, while it might suffer with injuries, will persist and deliver results on most occasions. That comes down squarely to coaching, contrary to what some attacking-players-dont-need-coaching people have claimed above. This is no longer Henry's time and football has moved on.

Honestly, if Bruno is injured (sure hope not) for any sort of significant period of time (month or more), Ole will be out of a job before Bruno recovers.

I'm getting annoyed by this "no clear way of playing".

Stop it.

Did you watch the game? We're you putting blind eyes when we play fast direct football in the first half?

 

[el3mel]

We played really really well in the first half but came on for the second half arsed and stopped playing.we are inconsistent even during the game itself it's crazy to be honest.

I agree with the notion that Bruno is the one carrying the team. I honestly can't imagine what we will do if he's injured or something. Fingers crossed he stays fit the entire season or something.

 

[VidaRed]

They are a shite team. Not comparable to us in any way. Championship level. Makes sense they are also 60 positions below us in the club rankings. We should beat that level a team comfortably which is what we did. Thus I won’t get carried away.

tbf they're more like a mid table pl side.