His buys haven't been bad but are a lot overrated. When I see us having two play 2 deep midfielders to help Maguire I cant help but feel some annoyance over our most expensive defender stopping us from exploring out attacking ceiling. Even as a move to stabilise our defence that's still an 80m band aid. As we are supposedly in a rebuild for the long term with very low expectations we didn't really need a band aid that urgently. The outlay stops us from getting someone better in addition to the player hindering us tactically. I think most would be disappointed at the thought of Maguire still being in the first xi in as early as 2022
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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This! For the bolded bit in particular.
Southampton are in the top three, this league hasn’t even gotten started yet.
People bemoaning his transfers yet he's signed the best player at the club currently and also tried to sign Haaland, Sancho n Grealish. 3 players that vast majority on here would love at the club. Ed didn't get him one of them but let's blame Ole.
He's been given money to spend but it's clear it's not been on the players he really wanted. VDB looks like he's been forced on him. Cavani signed on deadline day shows he wasn't part of any plan. And this kid from Atalanta was signed so late we didn't even get a work permit sorted for him.
The real issue is Woodward. The evidence is undeniable but it doesn't fit with the agenda of some fans.
He's been given money to spend but it's clear it's not been on the players he really wanted. VDB looks like he's been forced on him. Cavani signed on deadline day shows he wasn't part of any plan. And this kid from Atalanta was signed so late we didn't even get a work permit sorted for him.
The real issue is Woodward. The evidence is undeniable but it doesn't fit with the agenda of some fans.
I meant net. Yeah he's bought 300m worth.
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Barely out of the blocks, with a dead start for a lot of teams. It will be a bumpy ride, and squad depth will be very important. We are better suited in that department this year.
I agree he's been the best/least worse at our signing players, mainly because Moyes and LVG signings were a complete disaster so the bar is really low there, then you have Mourinho's signings who were for the short term and Ole got Bruno who's been a major success. But people talk here as if he was Klopp and got signings like Salah, Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, etc. I'd say he's been average at spoting players, with huge success in Bruno and failures like James. AWB and Maguire while being starters can be easily considered as overpaid. An easy scale to judge if a signing is a success or failure is their resale value.
How many players that we bought under Ole could be sold for the same amount we sold them? we could definately get our 55M for Bruno back, but could we get 85 for Maguire? 55 for AWB? 20 for Daniel James?
Like I said I wont judge this season signings since is way to early to tell. But I think is way over the top to consider Ole as a definite success in the signing department. Theres people here posting that we should promote Ole to DOF since "he's got a great eye for talent" ffs.
The fact you say he's bought even better than Fergie in the last years sigh, some times I think its been too long and sometimes we forget how great Sir Alex was... lets see Sir Alex last 3 year signings include DDG, Young, Jones, RVP, Kawaga, Smalling, Chicharito. Considering he spent around 100M in the those 3 years I'd say he grades way above Ole's signings.
Based on what? Thats wishfull thinking and yet this is repeated over and over on the forum as if it was a given.
Imagine we get a manager who wants to play with attacking fullbacks, how will he find Maguire and AWB usefull? will he use Daniel James at all?
Every manager want a certain type of players to develop their system, the best ones adapt their system to their available squad but I seriously doubt we became a "much more attractive destination for any talented manager" because Ole's signings. Not judging this season signings since is way too early to tell but besides Bruno all his other signings are nothing to be excited for.
When Moyes was after Fabregas and Bale and ended up with neither and looked at no potential alternatives at any point, that was all on Ed as well I guess?
Stonking revisionism to suggest Ole hasn't been given money to spend in the areas that he's wanted it. He was heavily involved in scouting and assessing AWB (spoke to Neville about him), and Maguire (spoke to Phelan about him), and James (spoke to Giggs about him). None of whom look remotely worth their fees at this point in time. We didn't have to sign the most expensive possible fullback and centreback on the market, there were so many other options.
Also, how involved was Ole in deciding not to sign Bruno in the summer? We don't really know but that goes down as another shockingly poor transfer decision given we signed him 6 months later for the same fee, missing him for half a season for no reason. And we must also wonder whether Ole had a choice in signing VdB. If he did have a choice, why the feck did he sanction it if he had no intention of ever playing him? Did he have a say in signing Cavani? Could we not have looked at other striker alternatives? Spurs certainly managed to. Chelsea signed Werner for more or less the same fee we paid for VdB....
And if Ole doesn't have a say in any of this... what's the point of him being manager for one second longer? Same story as with Mourinho. As soon as the board stop trying to follow your instructions you are finished.
True. I think its more of a case of transfers not being the main problem with Ole's tenure rather than the fact that he bought well.
None of Ole's transfers so far have a Sanchez or Di Maria whiff about them so that is a small consolation I suppose.
I wouldn't regard Ole's transfer dealings as a success by any stretch of the imagination.
For context, since our 6-1 thrashing to Spurs, We're 5th in the table after 5 games with 10 points - 3 behind Spurs. In this time our xGA is 2.9, which is the best in the league (conceded 3 - again least in the league) and we've faced Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton during this run.
How is he limited? Is there any English center backs that is better than him carrying the ball, passing, first touch, body feint, headers? Is there any? The ability set that he has is not limited at all.
VDB will get his chances, have you forgotten how long Fred needed to get his chances?
Yes. As bad as Moyes was you can't deny Woodward threw him under the bus. We missed all our targets and ended going for Fellaini in a last minute dash. He never stood a chance.
Every time our fans turn on our manager and this cretin gets away with it every single time. No more. Woodward needs to go before Ole.
That’s fine, no problem.
This though, utter rubbish. The best and most balanced squad we’ve had in years.
Most of his signings at the time were considered mediocre at best. With the exception of VVD, Fabinho and Alisson who sure as hell weren't considered top quality.
Salah?, Oxlade?, Robertson?, Wijnaldum?
We wouldn't go for any of those players if we were given the chance to sign them back then.
That's the basic difference, Ole just buys expensive toys that can't utilise them, instead Klopp turns them into world beaters. He even made Jordan fecking Henderson into one. That's great coaching there.
And that's why so many want Poch around here. Because he has this ability to up ones game.
There are a lot of better and cheaper options than that lump. I think Ole's plan was to get someone who knew the english league and be a bit like guard-dog like Steve Bruce or Rio, like SAF was, the previous years by buying the best options available from the league.
Unfortunately Ole hasn't got an eye for transfers. I can give lump the benefit of the doubt given that Ole will be sacked and a top coach comes and see what can make of him.
I wasn’t saying Ole is better in any way, that would be utter rubbish. I suppose I was just comparing his focus on what we needed. Of those players you list I’d really only say DDG, RVP and maybe Young were outstanding buys and prices back then were almost impossible to relate to current prices.
It wasn’t a literal comparison at all. I’m just a fan of the type of player Ole has brought in.
The fact you refer to him as ‘Lump’ says so much about your mentality. Can’t even be arsed to read the rest of your post. Pathetic when posters need to use such derogatory terms whether you like the player or not.
I've covered a good few times on here why I dont think bringing Poch in is an answer at all. Keep seeing his name brought up time after time.
Assuming we are need of a answer. I'm happy with Ole.
I dont know what you are saying?
The signing he has made have been top notch for what he was trying to so and have fixed into the system he likes to use. Even VVD was a gamble at the time for the money.
Ole best signing has been Bruno, who in hindsight now have been a bargain, and also a risk buy.
He also hasnt made anywhere near as close to the amount of 1st team signing Klopp has been allowed to make so far. Klopp literally had a total squad rebuild overhaul.
As I say their recruitment has worked out spot on. From klopp to the scouts to the board level. They've basically recruited a first 11 of the very top quality.
Obvs he gets the max out of them, but comes back to the the fact its players he wanted, have fitted his way and has worked out perfect.
Ole doesn't make the fees up, he doesnt tell Ed Woodward who is worth what money. Let me give you example. Lampard wanted Chilwel, spoke to him and what not, Leicester wanted £80m and Chelsea paid £50m because they have a good structure.
It is totally on Matt Judge on Ed Woodward what they pay for players, the manager says these are the players.
Secondly, we did not pay the same fee for Bruno 6 months later because they were asking for £60m in the summer and we paid £45m plus add ons. Again, if Ole didnt want Bruno, why is he always in the team?
As we have seen again and again with Ed Woodward, he is a specialist in failing the manager.
Happens every time with every manager, yet fans like you blame the managers not the baord.
What I'm saying?
I'm saying that for example, in 2017 if we were offered Salah we would counter that we got Lukaku and that Salah was a flop in his Chelsea stint. Is that any more clear to you now?
And at the time we considered ourselves, one RW and one CB away from the league
Just to get this out of the way I don't think they're bad players now, but at the time they were purchased with the exception of 3-4 players, none other would be considered top quality.
Anyway, here are all the top quality
transfers that Klopp did up until now. I'd dare to say that they have signed their fair share of dross.January 2016
Marko Grujic (£5.1m, Red Star Belgrade)
Steven Caulker (loan, QPR)
Kamil Grabara (£250,000, Ruch Chorzow)
Summer 2016
Sadio Mane (£30m, Southampton)
Loris Karius (£4.7m, Mainz)
Joel Matip (free)
Ragnar Klavan (£4.2m, Augsburg)
Alex Manninger (free)
Gini Wijnaldum (£25m, Newcastle United)
Summer 2017
Mohamed Salah (£36.9m, Roma)
Dominic Solanke (undisclosed fee, Chelsea)
Andy Robertson (£10m, Hull City)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (£35m, Arsenal)
January 2018
Virgil van Dijk (£75m, Southampton)
Summer 2018
Naby Keita (£52.75m, RB Leipzig)
Fabinho (£39.3m, Monaco)
Xherdan Shaqiri (£12.85m, Stoke City)
Alisson Becker (£65m, Roma)
Summer 2019
Harvey Elliott (tribunal fee, Fulham)
Sepp van den Berg (£1.3m, PEC Zwolle)
Adrian (free)
January 2020
Takumi Minamino (£7.25m, Red Bull Salzburg)
Summer 2020
Thiago Alcantara (£25m, Bayern Munich)
Diogo Jota (£45m, Wolves)
Kostas Tsimikas (£11.75m, Olympiacos)
We're probably going to end up paying more than the 60m for Bruno than Sporting wanted in the summer. If I remember correctly he was bought for £47m plus his add ons. We've already paid out an additional £10m with qualifying for the CL and Brunos participation and there's a remaining fee of £12m for individual goals such as appearances and I'm sure for goals and assists. So his fee will be around the £68m mark.
Don't get me wrong. That is still a bargain but it all could of changed if Tottenham snapped him up in the summer before. Apparently they had personal terms agreed with him but Sporting wanted to hold out for more money. Even Bruno made a statement saying he was gutted the Tottenham move didn't pan out. Whether it was Oles fault or the boards fault we didn't sign him then we'll never know because apparently we didn't sign him because his passing accuracy wasn't up to scratch and we only signed him in January as a desperate last ditch chance to save Ole his job and luckily for United it paid off big time.
I know but in the post I was referring to you stated Poch was 'certainly not the answer'. I'm simply stating that you don't know that for sure, just as those who are stating Ole is certainly not the answer don't know either. Football is a funny thing.
Poch could come here and be the perfect coach at the perfect time under the perfect circumstances, it all could click and we win a title within two seasons.
Ole could stay, suddenly find the winning formula and we win a title within two seasons.
Nobody knows, we can only say what we think or feel.
Yeah, it's hilarious. Most of these signings are very mediocre on paper and we would have been very underwhelmed if we went for them. Really baffles me seeing the lengths people will go to excuse our failing manager. We have a very good team, as good as anyone. Of course we have some obvious weaknesses like RW but every team does. There is no progress with Ole, we just hope to get some random penalty to save us and even though it works okay-ish for us as we get plenty of it, we are not getting anywhere near winning anything with this "tactics". We are just not a well coached team, how hard is it to see that?What I'm saying?
I'm saying that for example, in 2017 if we were offered Salah we would counter that we got Lukaku and that Salah was a flop in his Chelsea stint. Is that any more clear to you now?
And at the time we considered ourselves, one RW and one CB away from the league
Just to get this out of the way I don't think they're bad players now, but at the time they were purchased with the exception of 3-4 players, none other would be considered top quality.
Anyway, here are all the top quality
January 2016
Marko Grujic (£5.1m, Red Star Belgrade)
Steven Caulker (loan, QPR)
Kamil Grabara (£250,000, Ruch Chorzow)
Summer 2016
Sadio Mane (£30m, Southampton)
Loris Karius (£4.7m, Mainz)
Joel Matip (free)
Ragnar Klavan (£4.2m, Augsburg)
Alex Manninger (free)
Gini Wijnaldum (£25m, Newcastle United)
Summer 2017
Mohamed Salah (£36.9m, Roma)
Dominic Solanke (undisclosed fee, Chelsea)
Andy Robertson (£10m, Hull City)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (£35m, Arsenal)
January 2018
Virgil van Dijk (£75m, Southampton)
Summer 2018
Naby Keita (£52.75m, RB Leipzig)
Fabinho (£39.3m, Monaco)
Xherdan Shaqiri (£12.85m, Stoke City)
Alisson Becker (£65m, Roma)
Summer 2019
Harvey Elliott (tribunal fee, Fulham)
Sepp van den Berg (£1.3m, PEC Zwolle)
Adrian (free)
January 2020
Takumi Minamino (£7.25m, Red Bull Salzburg)
Summer 2020
Thiago Alcantara (£25m, Bayern Munich)
Diogo Jota (£45m, Wolves)
Kostas Tsimikas (£11.75m, Olympiacos)
That last sentence is the biggest issue. The Ole ins are frightened of upsetting Ole as he was a legend here as a player. If we had have had Gerrard or Lampard as manager instead, with the same outcome in games, they would be clamouring for him to be sacked
Funny how both your predictions turned to be a pile of stinking horse manure, isn't it?
Que? @rotherham_red
If you look at how these signings were rated back then and how our players are rated now. How much of a difference is there really?What I'm saying?
I'm saying that for example, in 2017 if we were offered Salah we would counter that we got Lukaku and that Salah was a flop in his Chelsea stint. Is that any more clear to you now?
And at the time we considered ourselves, one RW and one CB away from the league
Just to get this out of the way I don't think they're bad players now, but at the time they were purchased with the exception of 3-4 players, none other would be considered top quality.
Anyway, here are all the top quality
January 2016
Marko Grujic (£5.1m, Red Star Belgrade)
Steven Caulker (loan, QPR)
Kamil Grabara (£250,000, Ruch Chorzow)
Summer 2016
Sadio Mane (£30m, Southampton)
Loris Karius (£4.7m, Mainz)
Joel Matip (free)
Ragnar Klavan (£4.2m, Augsburg)
Alex Manninger (free)
Gini Wijnaldum (£25m, Newcastle United)
Summer 2017
Mohamed Salah (£36.9m, Roma)
Dominic Solanke (undisclosed fee, Chelsea)
Andy Robertson (£10m, Hull City)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (£35m, Arsenal)
January 2018
Virgil van Dijk (£75m, Southampton)
Summer 2018
Naby Keita (£52.75m, RB Leipzig)
Fabinho (£39.3m, Monaco)
Xherdan Shaqiri (£12.85m, Stoke City)
Alisson Becker (£65m, Roma)
Summer 2019
Harvey Elliott (tribunal fee, Fulham)
Sepp van den Berg (£1.3m, PEC Zwolle)
Adrian (free)
January 2020
Takumi Minamino (£7.25m, Red Bull Salzburg)
Summer 2020
Thiago Alcantara (£25m, Bayern Munich)
Diogo Jota (£45m, Wolves)
Kostas Tsimikas (£11.75m, Olympiacos)
Only on social media. Where it counts - the club - there is no indication of any pressure whatsoever.
We may do but if Sporting did not want to sell for less than £60m upfront you cannot blame it on Ole.
Lets be honest, the board will not let the manager decide how much is worth paying for players.
He's bought well and yet achieved nothing!!! There's no light at the end of the tunnel with him. We have to face facts. Ole simply not good enough. We're under achieving even though the defence needs additions. Ole has proven time and time again he's not up to the task of taking us back where we belong.
All we're doing is prolonging the inevitable. If he goes now maybe we can enjoy Christmas with Poch in charge.
Nobody knows what Woodward and his cronies think.
Club officials can publicly brief that they're in full support of a manager while making plans to get rid of him BTS.
Woodward is not completely stupid. If results and general performances don't pick up between now and January, Ole will be under real pressure.
Right now, it's our results against PSG and RB Leipzig that have saved him. Fans would be even more outraged if they were a draw,. But they were wins, so it's given him a bit of breathing room. Right now, Ole needs to just keep winning games if he wants to stay in a job. Fans can give out about style, but a few consecutive wins in the league will buy him more time. He's started that process with a good win against Everton and a meh displays against WBA.
I would fire Ole out of a cannon pointed towards Norway if given the chance, but I do realise that he won't be going anywhere as long as top 4 is still achievable. That's all the Glazers want.
I don't know about that. I think he is.
We are in a similar position we were in last year, we cannot always claw back a huge points deficit in the second half of the season.
The problem with the club is incompetence from the top, which is why we have Ole in charge.
Don't get me wrong. Ed is a disaster when dealing with transfers and normally I'd agree with you but the widely rumored opinion on why he wasn't signed in the summer of 2019 was because of his passing stats. So whether that came from Ole or the board we'll never know. (or at least until Ole writes his book
) at the end of the day it doesn't matter this time because we've now got ourselves something we've been missing for a decade. A natural born fighter with the necessary skills to become a great for us.Don't get me wrong. Ed is a disaster when dealing with transfers and normally I'd agree with you but the widely rumored opinion on why he wasn't signed in the summer of 2019 was because of his passing stats. So whether that came from Ole or the board we'll never know. (or at least until Ole writes his book
yep, thats something we will potentially never know.
Weird that alot of Bruno haters have his passing stats to have a go at him, completely ignoring the most relevant stats. Chances created, goals, assists etc...
What I'm saying?
I'm saying that for example, in 2017 if we were offered Salah we would counter that we got Lukaku and that Salah was a flop in his Chelsea stint. Is that any more clear to you now?
And at the time we considered ourselves, one RW and one CB away from the league
Just to get this out of the way I don't think they're bad players now, but at the time they were purchased with the exception of 3-4 players, none other would be considered top quality.
Anyway, here are all the top quality
January 2016
Marko Grujic (£5.1m, Red Star Belgrade)
Steven Caulker (loan, QPR)
Kamil Grabara (£250,000, Ruch Chorzow)
Summer 2016
Sadio Mane (£30m, Southampton)
Loris Karius (£4.7m, Mainz)
Joel Matip (free)
Ragnar Klavan (£4.2m, Augsburg)
Alex Manninger (free)
Gini Wijnaldum (£25m, Newcastle United)
Summer 2017
Mohamed Salah (£36.9m, Roma)
Dominic Solanke (undisclosed fee, Chelsea)
Andy Robertson (£10m, Hull City)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (£35m, Arsenal)
January 2018
Virgil van Dijk (£75m, Southampton)
Summer 2018
Naby Keita (£52.75m, RB Leipzig)
Fabinho (£39.3m, Monaco)
Xherdan Shaqiri (£12.85m, Stoke City)
Alisson Becker (£65m, Roma)
Summer 2019
Harvey Elliott (tribunal fee, Fulham)
Sepp van den Berg (£1.3m, PEC Zwolle)
Adrian (free)
January 2020
Takumi Minamino (£7.25m, Red Bull Salzburg)
Summer 2020
Thiago Alcantara (£25m, Bayern Munich)
Diogo Jota (£45m, Wolves)
Kostas Tsimikas (£11.75m, Olympiacos)
You literally proving my point. Look amount players he brought in since been there, then look at the absolute quality amongst the crap. Not far off a whole new first 11 of quality, as well as working with what he had at the time. Hes been backed and given time.
You where saying hes a top coach so he got the max out of the players. First 2 years wasnt the case at all. He wasnt blowing anyone away. But once they got the front 3 up and running the real magic happened.
Now they've a settled team squad for last 3 years.
100% on the we could have for Salah etc signing but we went for lukaku. We been trying to sort that out, but then again look at Dortmund, united tax crazy money to try and sign quality on the right which we have needed since fergie was manager.
True.
My fear about the constant talk off replacing managers, which the current one isnt under threat of being sacked at the moment, is the rinse and repeat which will come in a year time when results not what people expect and we still got that same issues with woodward and targets not got for the manager.
Everything a gamble at the moment.
Ole staying manager for this season in my eyes looks the least gamble out of bringing another manager in. Going to be another new 3/5 year plan, different ideas, another load of money spent on players who prob not match with the players already in the squad.
We've actually improved our results significantly from this time last season. Sorry
The logical way to think should be where would we be without Bruno? We damn sure wouldn't be beating Leipzip and PSG this season because we wouldn't be anywhere near playing in the CL if Bruno hadn't of come in January. Unless someone has an agenda the bigger picture should be looked at and not some stat that doesn't tell the whole story.
You're preaching to the converted. I think we've seen all there is to see from Ole and while Poch is available I would love him installed as our new head coach. I'm just trying to stay rational though.
You are of course correct. Nobody can predict the future.
But what we do know is that Spurs didn't trust Poch to win them even a Carabao cup. He had ample chances to win trophies reaching a few semi finals and a CL final and he lost them all.
They have now turned to the anti-christ of exciting football because he knows how to win. Surely that should ring alarm bells to all those wanting Poch.
I could understand if it was Pep or Klopp waiting in the wings to take over but it's not. Poch would be well up against it at this club just like Ole is.
I totally understand the rinse and repeat fear and I'm not so anti-Ole that I just want him out no matter the disruption. I do believe he's operating at his limit though.
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