Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[devilish]

No 1 is true.

But you need to be smarter than your No.2 in order to utilize them, at the very least you need to be smarter than them to know that they're smarter than you in some aspect. SAF delegated alot, but he's smart enough and experienced enough to judge the result of his No.2

Unless your No. 2 is fully in charge you'll need to decide what to ask, what to agree to, what to instruct etc. Even if they come up with a brilliant idea you have to know it is one , and likewise if they come up with stupid suggestions.

Even Gary neville looks smart to me listening to him speaking, he looks convincing in his tactical analysis. But we all know how it went.

Top coaches tend to be fantastic in their field. It's common for a top coach to be better in his respective field then the manager is. For example under Mourinho, our fitness went to crap since Faria left. Dolcetti on the other hand is said to be behind Allegri's tactics with the manager focusing more on man management while Carlos Queroz helped greatly in tactics and had a huge say on the day to day training. That's why managers tend to drag their entourage around. Having said that, coaches tend to be a bit like centurions. They are experts in their line of work but they fail to see the bigger picture. Which is why great/decent coaches such as Carlos, Rene, Faria, Trombetta, Phelan, Mclaren, Kidd and co had failed in management, some in a spectacular fashion.

I tend to see top coaches as augmenters ie people who step in

a- to allow the manager to focus on other areas. With players becoming more prima donnas then ever before + they are more empowered then ever (ie agents, their own fitness coach and some are even involved in politics or fighting Albanian gang lords these days) man management is taking a lot more effort then in the 80s were players were considered as pawns in a chess game. I dare to say it takes most of the manager's time these days.
b- to provide that added knowledge the manager may lack

Ole has one of the most demanding jobs in football. Manchester United is irony itself really. On one hand its a giant that dwarfs the likes of Bayern, Juventus or Barcelona with its millions of fans, its huge marketing and brand name and its enormous scouting net and youth academy. On the other hand its still run like some small club from the 70s. There's no DOF, no sporting director, no head of recruitment and barely any people at board level who understand what football is. Thus alot of things fall on the manager's shoulders whose got to supervise day to day training, he has to keep an eye on players inside (first team, youths etc) and outside the club and he occasionally has to speak with prospective signings and their agents etc.

I understand that Ole need to surround himself with people he can trust as leaks can destroy his career. However he also need to surround himself with experience and specialised men as well. Sir Alex is possibly the most experienced manager alive and despite that experience he made sure to surround himself with the likes of Queroz, Smith, Rene and co.

 

[lysglimt]

I mean the fact that you're even considering other teams having a super season more than expecting us to qualify for top 4 and then accepting getting 5th is ok after getting 3rd the previous season shows you've dropped your standards a bit. We are a top 4 side so we should demand at least top 4. If we don't achieve that then you look at the circumstances like a poster said but I don't agree with the circumstance that if a Leceister has a really good season then it's ok we didn't get top 4

Well - let's be honest here, the majority of the clubs in the P.L's standards have "dropped" - not necessarily because they have got worse - the results in Europe clearly indicates otherwise, but because the other teams in the P.L have got better. Liverpool is nowhere near the side they were exactly 12 months ago. They are not scoring for fun and they are leaking goals. Man City is nowhere near the team they were 12 months ago -they are not scoring goals at all. Add to that - Villa, Everton, Southampton, Spurs and Chelsea are a lot better than 12 months ago - while Leicester is almost at the same level.

No team will get 95-100 points this season, not even close in my opinion. If anyone will get close to 90 - they will probably take the title. So we would easily have a season where 5-6-7 teams will get from high 60's to high 80s. Getting 6-7 points more than last season might only get us a 6th place - maybe we need to add 10-12 points to get 4th.

If we get 6-7 points more, do really well in Europe and still end fifth, that wont be a disaster - not good enough no, but it's this "if we dont get 4th the manager should be sacked" attitude I dont like. I want progress - and at our best we are a lot better than we ever were under our previous 3 managers. OGS's main issue now, is to lift us when we are out worst - to avoid another Arsenal-game in the near future.

 

[lysglimt]

Speak for yourself.

I'm not all about result, it's about seeing actuall coaching abilities. I don't see any in Ole. Not even if we give him another 400m and 3 years

He's just not a good coach. He's had 12 years in management, if he's any good he would have shown something by now. He's been managing us for 100+ games, maybe he's just not a good manager. Giving a manager 6 years doesn't automatically make him Ferguson

And please. You have less than 100 post and you come here with the hollier than thou attitude as if you're the only one who supports the club and everyone else that dares to even question Ole is a plastic fantastic

So basically - you are saying that since he didnt win the C.L with Molde he is a crap manager ? Oh btw - you should know the difference between a coach and a manager.

 

[lysglimt]

Ole has a stronger squad than Vangle or Jose ever had.

Yes because unlike those 2 - he actually signed decent players

 

[Sky1981]

So basically - you are saying that since he didnt win the C.L with Molde he is a crap manager ? Oh btw - you should know the difference between a coach and a manager.

He's not a crap manager, he's a great manager. It's only because the PL are getting better it's Ok to finish 5-7 this season

Aren't you tired of moving the goalpost every week?

If we get 6-7 points more, do really well in Europe and still end fifth, that wont be a disaster - not good enough no, but it's this "if we dont get 4th the manager should be sacked" attitude I dont like. I want progress - and at our best we are a lot better than we ever were under our previous 3 managers. OGS's main issue now, is to lift us when we are out worst - to avoid another Arsenal-game in the near future.

 

[Widow]

If we get 6-7 points more, do really well in Europe and still end fifth, that wont be a disaster. I want progress

Did I read that right?

If we get more points? If, Ifs and but where fruit and nuts, we'd all have plenty of them... As the saying goes!

To finish below last seasons 3rd place, isn't progress. Our football hasn't progressed.

Where is this progression you speak of?

 

[Giggsyking]

My point is this - those days when a team is guaranteed top-4 in the P.L - they are over. There are too many good sides - Leicester, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, United....to name some.

What a load of nonsense, united is the second most expensive team in the league. Teams like Leicester, spurs and arsenal should be nowhere near us. But even if we say all teams have good players, then it is a matter of a manager. If any supporter in the world should know better about the importance of the manager it should be a united supporter, because they had brilliant one for 27 years.

Sure coming 4th one season can be acceptable because City, Liverpool and Chelsea are good teams, but it says alot about the quality of our manager if we keep finishing behind them.

 

[Bilbo]

Which other big club in world football thinks that a manager should still be figuring things out after two years?

Who cares about what other big clubs do or think? There is no magic formula to success.

 

[Giggsyking]

Did I read that right?

If we get more points? If, Ifs and but where fruit and nuts, we'd all have plenty of them... As the saying goes!

To finish below last seasons 3rd place, isn't progress. Our football hasn't progressed.

Where is this progression you speak of?

I cant believe people started to accept finishing 5th , just to find excuses to keep the novice manager. If he finishes anything bellow second then he has not progressed and should be catapulted out of Old Trafford.

 

[RUCK4444]

So what's the excuse for this season then. Have had basically a fully fit squad.

No, we haven't. No pre-season has meant that we've started this season in terrible form, it's happened with most teams and some have faired better than others, it's why this weekend Southampton were top of the league ffs.

It's been a unique start to the season for this reason. That's not an excuse it's just a fact, look at the league table, we are 2 points behind City, 8 pts off top with a game in hand, not only us starting badly.

 

[Bilbo]

The consistency thing isn't right. Technically any team that doesn't win all their games can say inconsistency. Fulham can look at how they won their last 3 games last season and say "well if we were more "consistent" we would have never got relegated" to avoid the reality that they collectively weren't good enough.

No that doesn't make any sense at all. United have shown that we are capable of a very high level of performance at our best. Fulham haven't.

The consistency thing is simply a way of saying that the gap between our best quality performances and our worst is too great, and its clear to see that on occasion our focus doesn't seem to be there as much as others.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I cant believe people started to accept finishing 5th , just to find excuses to keep the novice manager. If he finishes anything bellow second then he has not progressed and should be catapulted out of Old Trafford.

I'd accept 4th but a lesser point difference between us and 1st compared to last season as that is still progress in a way. Unless we win the champions league or we get injuries to alot of important players then anything less than top 4 is unacceptable. We should be demanding for top 4 because that is the least the strength of our current squad that is without major injuries is capable of but instead 7 games into the season with no major injuries and some are already making excuses on why not making top 4 is acceptable. Standards have dropped

 

[GBBQ]

No, we haven't. No pre-season has meant that we've started this season in terrible form, it's happened with most teams and some have faired better than others, it's why this weekend Southampton were top of the league ffs.

It's been a unique start to the season for this reason. That's not an excuse it's just a fact, look at the league table, we are 2 points behind City, 8 pts off top with a game in hand, not only us starting badly.

Look at the Demba Ba goal we conceeded against Basaksehir. Or McTominay on the right of the diamond against Arsenal. Or Matic being the first change in that match, or Pogba playing the whole game when he was clearly struggling.

Crazy tactical decisions that have taken place in the past 8 days that have nothing to do with a lack of pre season.

 

[Mainoldo]

If everyone is happy being average let’s just keep him.

I mean it’s great. We are just like old Liverpool Bruno being our Steven Gerrard. Pretending they are Keane and Scholes level.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

One other thing with Ole is that he can't seem to get the squad to punch above their weight. Since he came our team either underperforms or performs on par with the quality of the squad. In the first half of last season with the major injuries we had we were 6th, some argued he was underperforming, some argued the quality we had and the injuries made us the 6th best team so we were performing on par with the current squad quality.

The second half of the season together with the restart we had a fully fit squad plus a performing Bruno and Ighalo and on paper we arguably had the 3rd best team as well as the easier run of fixtures after the restart. We won games we were expected to win and performed on par with the quality of the squad coming 3rd place.

It seems like the best Ole can do is get the squad to perform on par with the quality of the squad. Maybe it's not really a problem but what it will mean is that unless we have the number 1 squad in the league, unless we can afford to spend money on the best all the time then we won't be winning the league title under Ole. Missing out on Haaland, Grealish and Sancho, the club has already shown they won't give Ole the luxury of spending money on the best all the time and it's not going to be the first or last time that happens.

Liverpool is a good example of a team that couldn't always afford to get the best but had a coach that could get the team to punch above their weight. I strongly believe that the only way we get back to the top of the league under Ed and Glazers is we get a manager that can get the team to punch above their weight. And Ole isn't that manager imo

 

[RUCK4444]

Look at the Demba Ba goal we conceeded against Basaksehir. Or McTominay on the right of the diamond against Arsenal. Or Matic being the first change in that match, or Pogba playing the whole game when he was clearly struggling.

Crazy tactical decisions that have taken place in the past 8 days that have nothing to do with a lack of pre season.

The Demba Ba goal was a freak goal where everybody in the team fell asleep. No coach, good or inept, coaches a team to do that. That's on the players, you learn those basics in School.

At the beginning of that Arsenal game almost everybody on the Caf were happy with the team selection. Now I agree Ole sat on his arse and let the game slide, which I was unhappy about but with the highly unpredictable performances he's been getting you can almost forgive him for wanting both Fred and McTominay on the pitch.

 

[RUCK4444]

Liverpool is a good example of a team that couldn't always afford to get the best but had a coach that could get the team to punch above their weight. I strongly believe that the only way we get back to the top of the league under Ed and Glazers is we get a manager that can get the team to punch above their weight. And Ole isn't that manager imo

On the bolded, your comparing Ole with Klopp which even Ole's biggest fans don't do. Klopp is the best coach in the world by a distance, a big distance. Your talking about a coach who polishes turds in CL winners.

I hate to say it but nobody we bring in will be on Klopp's level.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If everyone is happy being average let’s just keep him.

I mean it’s great. We are just like old Liverpool Bruno being our Steven Gerrard. Pretending they are Keane and Scholes level.

Bore off and get behind the manager and club. We're 6pts off top 4 with a game in hand ffs after a really poor start. We had a poorer start last season only winning our 3rd PL game in gw10 and we still finished 3rd.

Let's see where we are after 10-12 games. We could well be right back in contention and all the Ole outers will look foolish yet again.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

At the risk of offending a lot of Ole out posters, I think a lot of this comes down to people just lacking any patience. We are going to lose games from time to time, and we are going to be shit sometimes. Its just the way it goes. Its the agony of supporting a sports team.

Many people are never going to accept Ole. Most managers end up getting sacked eventually, so they will always take that point in time as vindication that they were right, even if its 5 years from now. This bonkers argument will never end.

The patience part is an interesting one. If Ole had a progressive style I can guarantee you most people would be a lot more forgiving of bad days, I certainly would.
Unfortunately Ole style is a counterattacking/defensive one. Even more unfortunate for me is that our football committee has decided to give thumbs up to this style of football with two successive defensive managers.

 

[RUCK4444]

Bore off and get behind the manager and club. We're 6pts off top 4 with a game in hand ffs after a really poor start. We had a poorer start last season only winning our 3rd PL game in gw10 and we still finished 3rd.

Let's see where we are after 10-12 games. We could well be right back in contention and all the Ole outers will look foolish yet again.

I know, right. It's like some can't see what a mess the start of this season has been for all teams.

Southampton were top of the league on the weekend for a reason. We could be right back in the mix in a relatively small amount of time.

 

[Cloud7]

Who cares about what other big clubs do or think? There is no magic formula to success.

When we're underperforming well below the level we should be at, it's worth looking at what the other clubs around our level are doing. There is no magic formula, but there is what is a sensible course of action. We're the only club that had a manager that was successful for 25 years. That in itself suggests it's an outlier and not something we should pin our hopes on happening again. Sir Alex was an anomaly, a magnificent one but an anomaly nonetheless. We have to accept that our managerial situation now will consist of going through managers, keeping them if they do well, for as long as they do well, and then getting rid of them when they're no longer performing at the level required. Every other club does this, I don't see why United fans act as if there's something wrong with this.

 

[Smores]

Bore off and get behind the manager and club. We're 6pts off top 4 with a game in hand ffs after a really poor start. We had a poorer start last season only winning our 3rd PL game in gw10 and we still finished 3rd.

Let's see where we are after 10-12 games. We could well be right back in contention and all the Ole outers will look foolish yet again.

So you're saying we've had two bad starts in consecutive seasons and that's somehow a good thing?

We've got some easy games coming up so yeah we'll probably climb the table over the next few games, that doesn't miraculously make the job so far this season good enough for a United manager.

 

[Cloud7]

If we get 6-7 points more, do really well in Europe and still end fifth, that wont be a disaster - not good enough no, but it's this "if we dont get 4th the manager should be sacked" attitude I dont like. I want progress - and at our best we are a lot better than we ever were under our previous 3 managers. OGS's main issue now, is to lift us when we are out worst - to avoid another Arsenal-game in the near future.

At our best under the previous managers we won the Europa league, Fa cup, League cup. Tough to say that we're better than we were under them because we scalped PSG a couple times. I'm not going to mention that time Jose came second, because that was just as unimpressive as the third place last season, with how far away we were from the team(s) above us.

 

[Cloud7]

This is starting to feel like the Jose days, with the same arguments happening back and forth on repeat on here

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

On the bolded, your comparing Ole with Klopp which even Ole's biggest fans don't do. Klopp is the best coach in the world by a distance, a big distance. Your talking about a coach who polishes turds in CL winners.

I hate to say it but nobody we bring in will be on Klopp's level.

How is that comparing Klopp to Ole? Its a simple example of a manager that can get teams to punch above their weight. Hassenhutl has done it in his previous teams and is currently doing it again at Southampton as another example. Some will argue Pochettino did it in his previous clubs. Also where were you when people were comparing Ole and Klopp's first hundred games. People that like Ole compare him to Klopp all the time.

The bolded bit is such a terrible logic that has been thrown around by Ole supporters in different forms "Nobody we bring in is on Klopp's level" "Bring in Pochettino if you'd like we are never winning the league with the Glazers and Ed running the club". How does this even help Ole's case who is very visibly inferior to these managers.

My point stands. We are not going to win the league unless we get a good coach that has the attribute of getting players to punch above their weight and Ole isn't that coach from what he has proven. What he has proven and continues to prove here is that he can only get us to perform on par with the quality of the squad or underperform

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If it worked for Zidane and Flick, why not Ole? Especially when you consider how Ole has done in the big games in his tenure thus far, is it really such a leap to say? If it doesn't work out then fine, chalk it down to experience and move on but like Jose and LvG received that backing to build the squad in his image, so too should Ole. And as far as I'm concerned, that hasn't happened.

This team with Ole has progressed a heck of a lot and for the first time there is a coherence to the building of the squad that hasn't been there in years. Let's see where we are at the end of the process, and if by the end of this season we're out of the top 4, he'll be let go, or if by the end of next season there isn't any further progress beyond the current level of a top 4 dog fight, then again, he should be let go but outside of that I'm more than okay with seeing where we end up with him.

It's almost like you have forgotten how far we had fallen under Jose, or how mind numbingly boring we were under LvG. Neither has been the case with Ole, and both of those guys had a much stronger squad than Ole in the first place.

First Hundred game comparison between Ole and Jose.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...00-games-as-man-utd-boss-with-jose-mourinhos/

Manager	Ole	Jose
Played	100	100
Won	55	62
Drawn	21	23
Lost	24	15
Trophies	0	3
Goals for	181	180
Goals against	100	70
Clean sheets	38	49
Points per game	1.86	2.09
Win rate	55%	62%
Loss rate	24%	15%
Goals per game	1.81	1.8
Goals against per game	1.0	0.7

In his last season here, Jose was also 10 points from 7 at this stage. This was a Jose trying his hardest to get sacked. Ole hasn't even bettered the disaster that was Jose.

PS: Sorry for the bad table, this is the best I could do.

 

[SATA]

I am not Ole out yet but this point about having a game in hand that comes into every argument is just so cringey and weak. How about winning the game and taking the 3 points first? It’s no guarantee we’ll win that game either looking at our form

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

If he loves United he'll resign.

If he hold his hands up, I'm not good enough to manage the team I love then I'll say he literally bleed reds.

Not when he's stinking up the place with his mismanagement while getting paid handsomely. That's not love dear, that's just a logical business decision

How can you expect ANY manager to do that it would be career suicide.

 

[RUCK4444]

How is that comparing Klopp to Ole? Its a simple example of a manager that can get teams to punch above their weight. Hassenhutl has done it in his previous teams and is currently doing it again at Southampton as another example. Some will argue Pochettino did it in his previous clubs. Also where were you when people were comparing Ole and Klopp's first hundred games. People that like Ole compare him to Klopp all the time.

The bolded bit is such a terrible logic that has been thrown around by Ole supporters in different forms "Nobody we bring in is on Klopp's level" "Bring in Pochettino if you'd like we are never winning the league with the Glazers and Ed running the club". How does this even help Ole's case who is very visibly inferior to these managers.

My point stands. We are not going to win the league unless we get a good coach that has the attribute of getting players to punch above their weight and Ole isn't that coach from what he has proven. What he has proven and continues to prove here is that he can only get us to perform on par with the quality of the squad or underperform

You mentioned Klopp, not me. Why mention him in the Ole thread unless your drawing comparison. I don't see anybody comparing Ole to Klopp, some draw comparisons to the time it took Klopp and the potential benefit there might be in allowing managers time. Nobody, literally nobody is here saying Ole is better than Klopp.

I'm all for a coach who guarantees an improvement, except that's not what you or any of the Ole-Out posters are providing. Poch? We will be having exactly this conversation about him in a few years.

And for your 'very visibly inferior' line that's just nonsense. Last season the only managers Ole was inferior to were Klopp and Pep, shock horror, there is no manager available that would have finished above them last season. This season it's a slightly more even playing field, let's see how Ole does. I back him to prove people wrong more than I back the negative posters here.

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

You not seeing it doesn't mean it's not there to be seen. To quote a proven genius: A fool sees not the same tree a wise man sees. So instead of being so over-the-top judgemental, so downright demeaning, so hostile, maybe you should consider the fact that you might be, perhaps, just a fool. In fact acting the way you do, so utterly exaggerated in your inclinations, so completely one-sided in your analysis, is usually an indication of just that. More so than merely being wrong, even.

Calling someone hostile and a fool in the same sentence is quite impressive.

 

[R'hllor]

This tread is pure gold, not gonna lie, mental as mf but still gold.

 

[romufc]

How many coaches improve when they don't get the players they want?

It is obvious that we are missing a RW who knows how to play RW. It is having a big impact going forward and defensively.

This has forced Ole to try different formations and tactics.

The reason we play Mata is because he is the only player who can play RW at an ok level. Dan James is rubbish, Greenwood is struggling at the moment.

Attacking, the current RW never stay out wide so we cannot stretch plays, because of this we cannot build properly.

Defensively, because the RW is always infield, the opponent LB is in acres of space causing us massive problems.

 

[rotherham_red]

First Hundred game comparison between Ole and Jose.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...00-games-as-man-utd-boss-with-jose-mourinhos/

Manager	Ole	Jose
Played	100	100
Won	55	62
Drawn	21	23
Lost	24	15
Trophies	0	3
Goals for	181	180
Goals against	100	70
Clean sheets	38	49
Points per game	1.86	2.09
Win rate	55%	62%
Loss rate	24%	15%
Goals per game	1.81	1.8
Goals against per game	1.0	0.7

In his last season here, Jose was also 10 points from 7 at this stage. This was a Jose trying his hardest to get sacked. Ole hasn't even bettered the disaster that was Jose.

PS: Sorry for the bad table, this is the best I could do.

And I've already said Jose had a better team and squad at that point, where he was fully invested in the project and was backed extensively with multiple big-money purchases, including breaking the world transfer record.

Ole, meanwhile, and unlike Jose, had the brass bollocks to be more focused on turfing out players than bringing them in. He's by and large worked with the players he was given. Most of whom, were considered cast-offs by the previous management. Tell me, who is the big money replacement for Lukaku (who himself, was a big money replacement for Zlatan)? Or Sanchez?

He brought in Bruno, Maguire and AWB, all of whom are bona fide first choice players who have massively strengthened the positions they were bought in for. He's also brought in VdB, Telles, and Cavani, who have added to the squad depth which was sorely lacking last season. As well as the cheaper punts on James and Pellistri, who may or may not work out, and a further player in Diallo, who is again, a long-term purchase.

Compare that to the players that Jose brought in, and there really is no comparison - the latter spent much, much more with barely a noticeable sale (to my recollection, just the two: Schneiderlin and Depay).

Give Ole the level of backing that Jose got, and we'll see where we end up.

EDIT - Thought it would be worthwhile sharing the list of players purchases from both of them during their time at Utd.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ole...ainer/7286/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=223189

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jos...rainer/781/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=134947

 

[Nou_Camp99]

So you're saying we've had two bad starts in consecutive seasons and that's somehow a good thing?

We've got some easy games coming up so yeah we'll probably climb the table over the next few games, that doesn't miraculously make the job so far this season good enough for a United manager.

Pep sitting above us with 2 more pts says hello.

This league is a strange one this year. United, City n Wolves were playing catch up for the first 3 to 4 weeks of the season due to a nothing pre season which I think has seriously distorted the league table. We really struggled in our first 3 games because of this. We were actually lucky to get the 3pts at Brighton.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

You mentioned Klopp, not me. Why mention him in the Ole thread unless your drawing comparison. I don't see anybody comparing Ole to Klopp, some draw comparisons to the time it took Klopp and the potential benefit there might be in allowing managers time. Nobody, literally nobody is here saying Ole is better than Klopp.

I'm all for a coach who guarantees an improvement, except that's not what you or any of the Ole-Out posters are providing. Poch? We will be having exactly this conversation about him in a few years.

And for your 'very visibly inferior' line that's just nonsense. Last season the only managers Ole was inferior to were Klopp and Pep, shock horror, there is no manager available that would have finished above them last season. This season it's a slightly more even playing field, let's see how Ole does. I back him to prove people wrong more than I back the negative posters here.

Sorry but you're being very ignorant. I'm not going to waste any more time here. How can you even call using Klopp as an example of coaches that can get a team to punch above their weight a comparison to Ole? Whereas posters that outrightly bring out Ole and Klopp's stats after 100 games aren't comparing them? Where have I even said posters ever said Ole was better than Klopp? I'm not even keen on Poch as I've said in other Poch threads but you and other posters seem to have a magic crystal ball that shows how every good manager we can get will fail here while Ole who isn't a better coach than Poch for example is somehow immune to this curse.

And then are you really measuring the quality of coaches by the league position of whatever team they are managing? Complete ignorance in your post. I'm not even going to bother again

 

[Mainoldo]

First Hundred game comparison between Ole and Jose.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...00-games-as-man-utd-boss-with-jose-mourinhos/

Manager	Ole	Jose
Played	100	100
Won	55	62
Drawn	21	23
Lost	24	15
Trophies	0	3
Goals for	181	180
Goals against	100	70
Clean sheets	38	49
Points per game	1.86	2.09
Win rate	55%	62%
Loss rate	24%	15%
Goals per game	1.81	1.8
Goals against per game	1.0	0.7

In his last season here, Jose was also 10 points from 7 at this stage. This was a Jose trying his hardest to get sacked. Ole hasn't even bettered the disaster that was Jose.

PS: Sorry for the bad table, this is the best I could do.

So Ole has improved us but Jose as we all know has had a better managing period of United than Ole.

I for one am not surprised.

 

[Mainoldo]

Pep sitting above us with 2 more pts says hello.

This league is a strange one this year. United, City n Wolves were playing catch up for the first 3 to 4 weeks of the season due to a nothing pre season which I think has seriously distorted the league table. We really struggled in our first 3 games because of this. We were actually lucky to get the 3pts at Brighton.

But sitting above us like 12 other teams is the main point from this. Keep backing Ole into mediocrity. When he’s sacked you’ll be the first to be like he just wasn’t good enough this new guy is so much better and pretend you actually know what your talking about.

 

[Roboc7]

And I've already said Jose had a better team and squad at that point, where he was fully invested in the project and was backed extensively with multiple big-money purchases, including breaking the world transfer record.

Ole, meanwhile, and unlike Jose, had the brass bollocks to be more focused on turfing out players than bringing them in. He's by and large worked with the players he was given. Most of whom, were considered cast-offs by the previous management. Tell me, who is the big money replacement for Lukaku (who himself, was a big money replacement for Zlatan)? Or Sanchez?

He brought in Bruno, Maguire and AWB, all of whom are bona fide first choice players who have massively strengthened the positions they were bought in for. He's also brought in VdB, Telles, and Cavani, who have added to the squad depth which was sorely lacking last season. As well as the cheaper punts on James and Pellistri, who may or may not work out, and a further player in Diallo, who is again, a long-term purchase.

Compare that to the players that Jose brought in, and there really is no comparison - the latter spent much, much more with barely a noticeable sale (to my recollection, just the two: Schneiderlin and Depay).

Give Ole the level of backing that Jose got, and we'll see where we end up.

EDIT - Thought it would be worthwhile sharing the list of players purchases from both of them during their time at Utd.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ole...ainer/7286/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=223189

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jos...rainer/781/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=134947

I don’t think you can paint Ole as being hard done by, he inherited that ‘better squad’ you mentioned and has spent plenty himself.

I think a big issue with recruitment is Ole doesn’t know how he wants to play, very difficult to recruit players with no clear identity or way of playing unless he commits to counter attacking fully, which I think he probably should and will do.

All out managers post SAF have been very cautious and have had quite a negative approach, I hoped Ole would be different but he just doesn’t seem to have the will or skill set to break away from that and been here long enough now.

 

[FatherWolff]

I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.

Top post, and so refreshing reading something with a bit of perspective!

 

[Luffy]

I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.

The thing is, the comparison with Everton doesn't compute. Ole already achieved the dizzy heights most teams crave, in his first 10 or so matches. After that there were some stinging results, until we got Fernandes, who began another group of outstanding results. Then came the semifinal defeats. The pattern is that of a yoyo club. Oh I don't mind if Ole stays for two more years, you know? I love to see him gloat after a win, just as I like to see his shocked and puzzled face after a defeat. Both are satisfying spectacles and I've had more than my money's worth of entertainment from this team. I'm wary of who we'll bring after him. I don't want Poch, who is a very limited manager.