Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Adisa]

Downed tools or not, I have a feeling the players don't believe in his qualities as manager regardless of their feelings about him.

 

[JG3001]

Keep him and back him. dont think theres another manager out there to have the balls to gut that dressing room. I think Ole is now finding out some home truths about the likes of Pogba and these characters. if we get rid of him now all these frauds are back to square 1 with a clean slate.this makes my blood boil more than any result over the past week. i dont think Pochetino would be the ruthless type we need either, good at signing a bargain at Spurs but another case of when he lost the dressing room at Spurs he was dispatched of easily. He would be ideal for this lot as cannon fodder. Stick with Ole and lets hope he knows what needed by now in the quality and character department, surely hope he realises by now he is going nowhere with our current starting wing backs for starters

Why is Ole just now finding some home truths about Pogba? It worries me when fans can see the problems with certain players way before the manager.

Ole is the Charlie Bucket of football, he had no business ever being given the job and is way out of his depth. Same with the coaching staff, putting novices in charge to learn on the job. The entitlement of some of these people in the background is as staggering as that shown from the players.

Remember Giggs genuinely believing he should be given the job? Listening to Rio , Scholes & Neville makes me cringe more often than not as well. Wish Fergie would come out and tell all his ex players that none of em have a clue, that would shut them up.

 

[Langers7274]

If Ole is going to survive the first thing he needs is a true leader. Maguire can bang on in press conferences about leadership but after last night's embarrassment, on the back of some shoddy defending this season, it's clear that this guy should be nowhere near the UTD armband. The only player I can see that plays with such passion and drive, and has the true quality to lead a team, is Bruno, should he get it, who knows? But this team looks rudderless and without any true leadership on-field the axe will fall in Ole's direction and only he can sort that out!

 

[devilish]

Let's start from the positives. Ole is a man manager. The squad is happy something that hasn't been throughout the Moyes/LVG/Mou administration. Under his administration toxic players have left, youth talent was brought in and we had won against some of the best teams in Europe.

That doesn't mean Ole is perfect. He made some very expensive signings that were simply not worth it, his tactics against smaller teams are not good enough and honestly I feel he's got his favourites which is, in my opinion, the end of any manager's career. He's on the job learning, something that is already dangerous at a big club like ours but border to the ridiculous when one consider that we didn't support him. I am not referring financially here. If Ole expected the club to spend yet another 200m, in the middle of a pandemic and after his 130m signings had failed so spectacularly then he's deluded. I am referring to support at board level and coaching level.

Whoever comes to the club will need at least a top DOF, a head of recruitment and some top top coaches to back him. Managers at United have absolutely no one who understand football above them and in Ole's case, he can only rely on Phelan in terms of experience. That's silly. In my opinion we should take these few months as an opportunity to strengthen the club's spine. Lets get Campos or Rangnick as DOF, Mitchell as head of recruitment and lets spot 2-3 experienced coaches who can come in and help Ole. If he feels threatened by such 'intrusion' then he can always handle his resignation.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I'm reluctant to change managers because I don't think there's a guarantee the next guy would do better. The deadwood would still be there, the weird contract extension policies will still be in place, the inflated wages we pay will still be there.

But all that aside, surely as the coach of a team consisting of the players he has at his disposal, he can at least not lose so abjectly to a second rate Turkish side, conceding stupid goals along the way?

It is with that in mind, and the nagging feeling that he can only set us up as an underdog, game raising counter attacking side, that I've changed my vote.

United can be a lot of things, but game raising bottlers are the types of teams I hate the most. If this goes on, in 10 years time, instead of "lads, it's only Spurs," it'll be, "lads, it's only Man United."

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The excuse for not sacking Ole seems to be that's things won't change. It's just an endless cycle. What exactly will keeping an underperforming manager do? Ed isn't going anywhere, but he can at least change the structure or get a DOF and this won't happen unless he is forced to react and what will force him to react is more failures from more managers. So yes sacking and replacing managers is the way. Pochettino next. If he underperforms, Rose next. Simple as that. Our only hope for change right now is stumbling upon the right manager or that Ed and Glazers who aren't going anywhere finally decides to make changes which will only happen after constant hiring and sacking of managers. Only crazy people repeat the same thing. At some things will get really bad which is when Ed and Glazers do something. They will give up and decide to make changes

 

[devilish]

If Ole is having to coach them on how to pass a ball to the right per with the right amount of pace and direction, there is little wonder that we have b


Are you serious??

If you think Ole needs to coach players on the same team to make a pass with the right speed and direction, it’s no surprise that we haven’t moved on in 2 years

Have you ever heard our former players talk on telly? You often get these people with giant egos and huge ideas most of whom have absolutely no idea what tactics are. Which explain why most have failed miserably in managing. Gaz with all his IPAD tapping was a disaster at Valencia, Keane with all his grrrs and roars got his arse handled to him at Sunderland and Sourness will always be remembered as the guy who ruined Liverpool. Players are exceptionally gifted in playing football but they are often not very bright. They are like legionnaires in a Roman army that can win great wars if carefully drilled and managed but would fail if not given proper instruction. The likes of LVG and Sir Alex knew that. LVG failed because unlike Sir Alex he made it obvious something that people with huge egos would never tolerate. Sir Alex on the other hand gave them the illusion that the sky is the limit only to drop on them like a sledgehammer the very moment one dared questioning him. He did so not because he hated the guys, something, he didn't because they won him so many trophies. He did it because these people are often morons and he can't afford having morons questioning his every move.

 

[Langers7274]

Let's start from the positives. Ole is a man manager. The squad is happy something that hasn't been throughout the Moyes/LVG/Mou administration. Under his administration toxic players have left, youth talent was brought in and we had won against some of the best teams in Europe.

That doesn't mean Ole is perfect. He made some very expensive signings that were simply not worth it, his tactics against smaller teams are not good enough and honestly I feel he's got his favourites which is, in my opinion, the end of any manager's career. He's on the job learning, something that is already dangerous at a big club like ours but border to the ridiculous when one consider that we didn't support him. I am not referring financially here. If Ole expected the club to spend yet another 200m, in the middle of a pandemic and after his 130m signings had failed so spectacularly then he's deluded. I am referring to support at board level and coaching level.

Whoever comes to the club will need at least a top DOF, a head of recruitment and some top top coaches to back him. Managers at United have absolutely no one who understand football above them and in Ole's case, he can only rely on Phelan in terms of experience. That's silly. In my opinion we should take these few months as an opportunity to strengthen the club's spine. Lets get Campos or Rangnick as DOF, Mitchell as head of recruitment and lets spot 2-3 experienced coaches who can come in and help Ole. If he feels threatened by such 'intrusion' then he can always handle his resignation.

Excellent post!!! 100% spot on. I've been saying this for god knows how long now, doesn't matter who we get in us manager, Klopp, Pep, Poch, if the foundations are not set then forget about the football. We look amateurish in the transfer market, we never seem to have a plan B or C on the field and all this comes down to getting the right experience in, starting with DoF.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Have you ever heard our former players talk on telly? You often get these people with giant egos and huge ideas most of whom have absolutely no idea what tactics are. Which explain why most have failed miserably in managing. Gaz with all his IPAD tapping was a disaster at Valencia, Keane with all his grrrs and roars got his arse handled to him at Sunderland and Sourness will always be remembered as the guy who ruined Liverpool. Players are exceptionally gifted in playing football but they are often not very bright. They are like legionnaires in a Roman army that can win great wars if carefully drilled and managed but would fail if not given proper instruction. The likes of LVG and Sir Alex knew that. LVG failed because unlike Sir Alex he made it obvious something that people with huge egos would never tolerate. Sir Alex on the other hand gave them the illusion that the sky is the limit only to drop on them like a sledgehammer the very moment one dared questioning him. He did so not because he hated the guys, something, he didn't because they won him so many trophies. He did it because these people are often morons and he can't afford having morons questioning his every move.

I am not taking Ole out of the blame scenario but if he is having to spend time on these players learning how to pass the ball to someone in the same shirt, then we might as well all give up and go home!

One of their players completed a ‘no-look’ pass last night whilst you had 11 players on the pitch for United who couldn’t find their own player consistently.

It’s a joke

 

[Matt6677]

Wishful thinking but I was hoping that Ole got the sack overnight. Hurried to this forum after I woke up for the breaking news but was sadly disappointed.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Good thing Liverpool stuck by Hodgson.

Oh wait they didn't they fired manager after manager until they eventually got it right. Granted out owners and structure are worse but we spend more so it is comparable

 

[devilish]

I am not taking Ole out of the blame scenario but if he is having to spend time on these players learning how to pass the ball to someone in the same shirt, then we might as well all give up and go home!

One of their players completed a ‘no-look’ pass last night whilst you had 11 players on the pitch for United who couldn’t find their own player consistently.

It’s a joke

One of the most promising talent I've ever met happened to be a close mate. He was a superb dribbler who could easily jump 2-3 players at ease. He was one of the finest players in his age group, he played in the UK at youth level and he even had trials with Liverpool FC youths. Unfortunately he had the ego of a bus. He would dribble past players again and again without ever releasing the ball. No coach was ever able to kick that out of him and finally he got the imminent career threatening injury that ruined him.

Players might have the talent but they are hardly geniuses and football is an emotional game. Why should my mate stop dribbling a guy if he could? Once he dribbled the guy why shouldn't he try again and score? I know that there's a huge gap in terms of talent between my mate and these players but you only have to hear these professional players talk to know that they share the same mentality.

It's up to the manager to micromanage them WITHOUT them noticing that they are being micromanaged and its up to the coaches to drill them into perfection. If that wasn't important, vital even, then why do you think that clubs pay managers and coaches the money to do the job? Why do you believe that more specialised roles like data analysts, sporting director, DOF, head of youths, youth managers and youth coaches at different levels are hired? Players have huge limitations and they need to be protected from themselves. Unfortunately the same can be said about managers these days. The Sir Alex Ferguson type of manager who could supervise everything is gone. Managers love that role as every man in the world love to do his job with little/no supervision but they aren't able to do it anymore. No one has the experience for that.

 

[Water Melon]

Ole is continuing to kill the joy of watching United. What we are witnessing this season, is one step forward two steps back. We are super reliant on individual brilliance of our players and on teams that will allow us to play to our strengths. Once, our players do not pull a rabbit out of a hat or opposition does not allow us to play the way we want, we struggle really badly. Bruno is not the player we saw at the beginning, neither are AWB, Maguire, Dan James, Ighalo. We are yet to see what Cavani and VdB can offer. The more these players are coached by Ole, the worse they are getting imo. Was Ole not all about bringing back the culture or playing the United way? The culture at this club is to play out of your skin and do whatever it takes to win. This season is anything but that, and our playing style is anything but the United way. Sack him and bring someone who improves what he has first, and let him them build upon it afterwards. Do not give stupid 4 year contracts to coaches who have not won something big for you. Set clear, objective and quantitative goals for them to reach. The more I watch Man Utd, the more I realize that SAF was an anomaly rather something common. Times have changed, the dynamics in the game have changed, the money involved has changed. We can not wait for 5-6 years before managers start winning things. Solskjaer has been backed massively and yet each and every game of ours is a fooking lottery. Enough is enough really.

 

[frookydinho]

In reality, if Ole was fired. Do you think any other team in the Premier League would hire him?

I cant see it. They wouldn't because he isn't good enough. Yet Ole is still at the wheel for us.

 

[Castia]

That was the response to the Arsenal loss? a worse performance that created virtually nothing in 90 minutes.

Captain and £80m ‘world class defender‘ this week saying we have leaders at the club then put on one of the most embarrassing defensive displays to date. Absolute disgrace.

 

[Lentwood]

It’s obvious to me that Ole has done a very good job in many areas - namely improving the morale and attitude of the squad, shipping out the bad apples, blooding young players and signing the right profile of player.

However, there is clearly a tactical/coaching issue at the club currently. We did OK last season at times with the 5-3-2 when sitting deep and countering but that’s the only formation I have ever really seen us successfully play for a prolonged period. I know we have had good spells like post lockdown but for every comfortable 3-0 win there was always a disappointing home draw with a Southampton, West Ham or Everton around the corner. Reality is, we should be beating those sides 7/8 times out of 10.

For me, it’s decision time for Ole. Does he stick with Carrick, McKenna and his other coaches or do we look to bring in new blood? He clearly needs some help tactically which is fine, where would SAF have been without Kidd, McClaren and Quieroz? Trouble is, if tactics aren’t his strong point I’m not sure he’s going to get the help he needs from the staff we have right now

 

[Josh 76]

Time to make the change now before it's too late. Sounds fecked up, but if we win our game in hand and City Beat Liverpool, we are only 3 points behind the best team ever.

 

[Gabagoo]

For me, it’s decision time for Ole. Does he stick with Carrick, McKenna and his other coaches or do we look to bring in new blood? He clearly needs some help tactically which is fine, where would SAF have been without Kidd, McClaren and Quieroz? Trouble is, if tactics aren’t his strong point I’m not sure he’s going to get the help he needs from the staff we have right now

My thoughts too. He has to do something because at the moment, our form is leading him to the door, so he has nothing to lose at this point.

I thought that Carrick and McKenna were going to bring this new skool, almost data-driven approach to coaching, but our play is one of the most basic in the division. We basically just give it straight to Fernandes and hope he pulls something out of the hat, with our attackers hopefully being fast enough against that day's opponents to create chances in the counter.

I can't believe how old fashioned we look. Ideally we should get a coach proven in building attacking plays. Maybe someone with Cruyff influences? Or maybe we should try to nick Brian Kidd from Citeh, and hope that he has remembered enough shit from Pep to give Ole a clue because currently it doesn't look like Ole has one.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Time to make the change now before it's too late. Sounds fecked up, but if we win our game in hand and City Beat Liverpool, we are only 3 points behind the best team ever.

He won't be sacked until top four is gone.

 

[UmbroDays]

In reality, if Ole was fired. Do you think any other team in the Premier League would hire him?

I cant see it. They wouldn't because he isn't good enough. Yet Ole is still at the wheel for us.

Cardiff, Molde to Manchester United.

I just don’t know why we did see him as the long term solution. We beat PSG and we just got blinded by the lights.

 

[John Blund]

Moyes is much better manager than Ole at least at EPL, the only reason we didn't give him more time is because he wasn't our club legend.

He wasn't a club legend, and the fact that Moyes didn't have a clue. His mentality doesn't fit a team that wants and needs to dominate 70 % of their games.
Even if we finish this season on 10th with Ole, I believe I'd still rank him over Moyes as United manager.
Just remember the press conferences with Moyes:
"I don't know how to win. We played well today" - After the 2-1 loss against Stoke.

"Their league position suggests they are ahead of us, and they possibly do come here as favorites. Liverpool are having a very good season and we will have to do everything we possibly can to beat them." Before the game at Old Trafford. They came to us. Yes, they had a good season, but we were the reigning champions at home. We should always see our self as favorites at home against Liverpool. At least back then.

 

[Adnan]

He won't be sacked until top four is gone.

This is what was said about Mourinho.

 

[K Stand Knut]

One of the most promising talent I've ever met happened to be a close mate. He was a superb dribbler who could easily jump 2-3 players at ease. He was one of the finest players in his age group, he played in the UK at youth level and he even had trials with Liverpool FC youths. Unfortunately he had the ego of a bus. He would dribble past players again and again without ever releasing the ball. No coach was ever able to kick that out of him and finally he got the imminent career threatening injury that ruined him.

Players might have the talent but they are hardly geniuses and football is an emotional game. Why should my mate stop dribbling a guy if he could? Once he dribbled the guy why shouldn't he try again and score? I know that there's a huge gap in terms of talent between my mate and these players but you only have to hear these professional players talk to know that they share the same mentality.

It's up to the manager to micromanage them WITHOUT them noticing that they are being micromanaged and its up to the coaches to drill them into perfection. If that wasn't important, vital even, then why do you think that clubs pay managers and coaches the money to do the job? Why do you believe that more specialised roles like data analysts, sporting director, DOF, head of youths, youth managers and youth coaches at different levels are hired? Players have huge limitations and they need to be protected from themselves. Unfortunately the same can be said about managers these days. The Sir Alex Ferguson type of manager who could supervise everything is gone. Managers love that role as every man in the world love to do his job with little/no supervision but they aren't able to do it anymore. No one has the experience for that.

You’ve lost me now.

If a professional footballer can’t pass the ball to his team mate, he should be sacked. It is literally the most basic of things. Once the players are on the pitch, it is down to them. The amount of times it happens at United is embarrassing. 2/3/4/5 yard passes repeatedly going astray from players who are paid as professionals.

Embarrassing and no amount of coaching can changethat.

 

[Godfather]

Good thing Liverpool stuck by Hodgson.

Oh wait they didn't they fired manager after manager until they eventually got it right. Granted out owners and structure are worse but we spend more so it is comparable

That's the only hope I have though. We did EXACTLY what Pool did all these years. A carbon copy of their mistakes. Now I hope we also do the same to repair them and finally go for a progressive young manager that has shown he knows what he is doing.

No more ex players, no more past it managers

 

[UnitedFan93]

The form and performances have been shocking, even in the games that we've won. The win at Brighton was smash and grab, the performance at Newcastle wasn't great with 3 goals coming late on to make it look more convincing than it was. The same can be said for the game against RB Leipzig, was even for 70mins, the 5-0 scoreline flattered us at the end. Only the PSG match have we played well for the full match.

 

[Kurton]

This thread should be closed simply for the fact that its caused a massive divide on this forum. Everything that could possibly have been said has been said. How soon into the next guys tenure is the same thread going to be opened, and round and round we all go again?

Its as if people here expect any player, manager, or board to be 100% sure of being successful without a shadow of a doubt. Well guess what, there is no 100% surety in anything in life. If the new manager is crap, questions will be asked. People speak as if we get new owners or board, everything is gonna be fine, while it could be worse than what we have with the current owners and board.

 

[Bobcat]

And again, the correct manager can fix players attitude and get the best out of our current crop of players if he holds them responsible.

Ole came in from day 1 saying he'll hold players accountable and yet it's clear that Martial, Rashford, Bruno, Maguire, AWB and De Gea plays as long as they're fit regardless of their form. Add Pogba in and that's basically only having 4 spots up for grabs, how are the rest of the players supposed to get motivated when they know they just won't get the chance to play unless one of Ole's favourites gets injured.

Just take a look at Leeds as an example of how a proper manager can improve a team. Put Ole as the manager of that Leeds team and they're relegation favourites.

The first three, we dont really have any options. Cavani? Hes looked like another Falcao since he arrived. Maguire and AWB was gash vs Spurs and yesterday but for the most part they've been solid. Maybe Tuanzebe could have gotten a few more chances, so fair enough. Laird i dont really know about. Hes apparently very talented, but i dont think hes kept out of the side "just because".

De Gea i agree should have been benched more in favor of Henderson while Pogba is a headache and has been left out a couple of times and has not really grabbed his chance when hes been trusted

 

[1974_Fergie_Time]

After last night we might not get Poch anyway PSG will probably be after him now

 

[Resch]

You can back Ole or sack him. To back him, give him some coaches to support him and a DoF to find the right players for the right price.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So today is the date, in 1986, that we hired our last really good manager. Thirty four years ago. No idea why but it popped up as a reminder on my phone calendar. And depressed the shit out of me.

 

[Murray3007]

as above is there actually any United fan who still thinks Ole is the man to take us forward ? if so what reasons ?

 

[Cloud7]

Not really,

Sacking moyes - LVG : FA CUP
Sacking LVG - Jose : UEFA Cup + League Cup

There is no problem to solve, football is not some 25 years enigma, you hire the best coach for the season and aim to win shits every season. It's that simple. Everyone else is doing it, and everyone else is successful enough doing it, we're the only team that seems to think you can only win it the SAF ways

Too much sense for this thread. The only way to win is by having a manager here for 25 years and only win stuff only that one manager.

 

[Jonno]

I must admit, i've never been so personally divided over a manager.

I think my issue is, I see him putting everything into the job, he is putting Man United first, himself second. I admire it and I appreciate it.

He gets good results, he takes us places, but what i hate more than anything, are the bad performances. I've seen the same performance 3 times in 4 games now. Chelsea, Arsenal and Istanbul last night..... All 3 games, we're probing for a goal, and we could play for 5 hours, we WONT SCORE. You're watching Shaw, Matic, Pogba, Bruno, AWB, Maguire pass it amongst themselves, sideways, sideways, sideways, backwards, and then concede posession.

We're incredibly fragile. Everton know how to beat us, score first and sit behind the ball. We'll lose 0-1 or 0-2 on Saturday if their plan goes well.

I've backed Ole lots, i admire what he's done, but I'm starting to think, we need a new voice in the dressing room, perhaps an elite manager rather than continue with our experiment?

Think of yourself in your day job. I work in sales. If I've got an uninspiring manager, maybe a new manager, that I don't see any previous success from, I see a lack of return, results, I can start to lose faith he or she is the right person, I can lose belief that the methods we're using are correct, complacency can kick in and I could drop 10-20% effort level. If I get a new manager, who is renowned in the industry and has proven methods and success, I will work harder if I see the bigger plan, the bigger picture. This applies in every industry, it doesn't matter whether its football or legal recruitment like me.

I can't help but think he's losing the dressing room.

 

[romufc]

I have been Ole in, It now has come to a point I cannot defend the guy. Arsenal was the result that sent me over the edge.

The club needs to make a decision this international break.

 

[wolvored]

Time to make the change now before it's too late. Sounds fecked up, but if we win our game in hand and City Beat Liverpool, we are only 3 points behind the best team ever.

If we have to rely on ifs then we are screwed

 

[Inigo Montoya]

as above is there actually any United fan who still thinks Ole is the man to take us forward ? if so what reasons ?

The whole system isn’t set up to take us forward. He’s just a pawn and will be sacrificed. It needs restructuring, starting at the top, but sadly it’s going to take bad results after bad results for them to take notice

 

[Cloud7]

no

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I must admit, i've never been so personally divided over a manager.

I think my issue is, I see him putting everything into the job, he is putting Man United first, himself second. I admire it and I appreciate it.

He gets good results, he takes us places, but what i hate more than anything, are the bad performances. I've seen the same performance 3 times in 4 games now. Chelsea, Arsenal and Istanbul last night..... All 3 games, we're probing for a goal, and we could play for 5 hours, we WONT SCORE. You're watching Shaw, Matic, Pogba, Bruno, AWB, Maguire pass it amongst themselves, sideways, sideways, sideways, backwards, and then concede posession.

We're incredibly fragile. Everton know how to beat us, score first and sit behind the ball. We'll lose 0-1 or 0-2 on Saturday if their plan goes well.

I've backed Ole lots, i admire what he's done, but I'm starting to think, we need a new voice in the dressing room, perhaps an elite manager rather than continue with our experiment?

Knowing what a Jekyll and Hyde team we are, we could go there and win!

 

[romufc]

We're incredibly fragile. Everton know how to beat us, score first and sit behind the ball. We'll lose 0-1 or 0-2 on Saturday if their plan goes well.

This is the problem, every team knows how to beat us. We are probably the easiest team to beat. Let Manutd have the ball, they will misplace passes, because lets be honest we cannot string together 10 consecutive passes and teams will counter because we dont know how to defend the counter.

Once 1-0 up, sit back and relax, defenders dont need to do anything because we don't get the ball anywhere near the box without losing it. We dont take shots, we dont put the ball in the box.

 

[Phil]

I gave up defending him last weekend.