Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No, that's a whopping 14 point increase from previous year.

The problem is when you finish on 66 points, come 6th previous year, spend another 200m and still finish on 66 points the next year ( yes, we got 3rd because others were worse). That's not an improvement to me.

Firstly, when we finished 6th with 66 points that's because we didn't beat our rival, we only beat the lesser teams while our rival didn't lose points because we didn't beat them. When we finished 3rd with 66 points we beat our rivals and the top teams (City, Spurs, Chelsea & Leicester) which is why the likes of Leicester, Spurs & Chelsea finished below us and that's improvement. If we never had lot of injuries, we would have beat the lesser team more consistent and finished higher than 66 points. You never think about that don't you?

Second, he didn't spend 200m. And also he sold Lukaku & Young so despite of spending 150m plus, he lost some players that was part of the first team and the net spend was lower than 150m.

 

[TheDoc]

This guys get it. Promote him!

Why thank you! That message should be obvious though, for anyone who's ever lived and experienced life while doing so. Also, having re-read it, my English teacher would probably cane me for that grammar.

To state the obvious (but it seems some people haven't got it - or have decided to ignore it): this isn't a normal season.

We have witnessed some truly bizarre results so far. And how much the exceptional circumstances will influence matters - as we go on - is anyone's guess. But you actually have to factor in those circumstances when you assess Ole's "performance" as manager - whether you like it or not.

Villa-Liverpool 7-2: Yeah...but...something.

City-Leicester 2-5: Yeah...but...something.

United-Spurs 1-6: Proof positive that Ole is shite and "tactically inept".

Nope definitely not a normal season, but... That's not an excuse in my opinion. Well maybe for the first couple of matches as we didn't really have a preseason at all, but not so much as the season progresses. It's the same for everyone, something each club has to deal with we're not exceptional in that regard at all and in the end the league table won't lie. He's built a team and established a culture which makes us competitive again, I think it's fair to expect a good run this season. Maybe not demand it, but at least expect. Personally I've felt all along towards the end of 20/21 we should look like a firmly solidified top-four side again, with the prospect of challenging next season. Last season all I expected was that we'd make a decent run for top-four, considering where that transfer window left us with a complete lack of creativity up front I actually expected another year in the Europa League so I'm thrilled Bruno made such a huge impact and we've not only made the Champions League but actually looked brilliant there.

So yeah, I'm falling for this team again. It looks and feels like the United I've loved for 32 years now, and for the first time post-Alex I'm excited about our squad as well. Young and full of promise, dedicated and hungry for success, coupled with veterans who are asserting themselves as proper die-hard role models. Real chemistry there, everyone looks motivated and fit for duty. Ole deserves a lot of credit, a lot, for what he's achieved, but the job isn't done yet and I can see why people would feel disappointed if we're not "there" come May.

No matter though, I won't change my opinion on him. Even if they slip up this season, he's at least re-established Manchester United as the team I've always admired. He's checked every point on my list so far, we're showing clear progression and I'm hopeful it'll continue, so unless we look truly dreadful throughout this campaign he's earned my backing top of the league or not.

 

[bond19821982]

Firstly, when we finished 6th with 66 points that's because we didn't beat our rival, we only beat the lesser teams while our rival didn't lose points because we didn't beat them. When we finished 3rd with 66 points we beat our rivals and the top teams (City, Spurs, Chelsea & Leicester) which is why the likes of Leicester, Spurs & Chelsea finished below us and that's improvement. If we never had lot of injuries, we would have beat the lesser team more consistent and finished higher than 66 points. You never think about that don't you?

Second, he didn't spend 200m. And also he sold Lukaku & Young so despite of spending 150m plus, he lost some players that was part of the first team and the net spend was lower than 150m.

Irrelevant point on whom did we beat . Point is we got only 66 and that's exactly where we finished the very next year despite spending huge money (again).

80 +50 + 20 + 50 = 200m - yes he did spent 200m - you are just bringing the net spend argument just to put him in good light. Point is he had enough money to improve the squad .

 

[OleBoiii]

Wow, this thread has over 30k posts. Even if only 10% of the posts were 'Ole out', that is sickening.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Irrelevant point on whom did we beat . Point is we got only 66 and that's exactly where we finished the very next year despite spending huge money (again).

That’s relevant because the point is about improvement and the main factor we finished 3rd is because we beat those top teams forcing them losing big points in important games which something we couldn’t do when we finished 6th. That’s the massive improvement.

80 +50 + 20 + 50 = 200m - yes he did spent 200m - you are just bringing the net spend argument just to put him in good light. Point is he had enough money to improve the squad .

80 + 45 + 15 + 50 = 190m. Net spend is useless if we count selling player like Darmian who was never Ole’s first team player but we sold Lukaku, Young and etc which part of Ole’s first team. Losing them means weakened Ole’s squad. And we made improvement despite of spending much less money than Mourinho 360m.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I am glad he has move and made a change. Special in champion league matches. With the diamond 4-3-1-2 formation with 2 CFs. Many of the fans and peoples in this forum know it. And you dont need to be a football expert or rocket science to know that Uniteds current squad suit 4-3-1-2 formation best?Why?Because if you dont count Martial as a left winger. Then United dont have any really good natural and typical. Classical winger and wide player. Then what should do with that?Special if you many really good CFs in your squad like Rashford and Greenwood + plus maybe Cavani and Ighalo. Of naturally and logically you drop the wingers. And go for 3 cm players, a CAM and 2 CF. Its nothing genius or super tactic wow ability. This is at least a demand ability by a top club manager. Ability to get the most out of your squad. Not a new manager just has been in the football job for months, in non league football. If a manager dont see it. Then its his super ego who is standing in the way and block the view to see the change, for the best of the sqaud and club.

Then you can see i have mentioned the intern solution for United and Ole. Before he made the change and use the 4-3-1-2 in champion league. Many does see it too. Nothing difficult.

But in the league. He still use 4-2-3-1 and James as left winger. Reason why United can still improve in the league. By the same intern solution and change of formation.

Conclusion. Before the champion league start and Newcastle win. Ole was on the sacking path and road. Ole change the road and path/change formation. So conlusion. If Ole switch back to 4-2-3-1 formation with Pogba and Matic + plus James as left winger. He is gonna switch back to the sacking path.

There are ingredients behind a sacking path and a surviving path. Depend on which ingredients Ole is using and choosing. It will lead him on that path.
Ole is his own worst enemy. His super ego and stubborness. If he think his own ego is the main factor behind the team and his success. Stuck in stubborness and ego, then it will lead to the sack path. So again. So for the whole club and fans. I am glad he made a change.

Against teams United shall dominate. A 4-2-3-1 formation with Fred - McTom + Greenwood - Bruno - Martial + Rashford will work. But if you put James and Mata in for Martial and Greenwood then you might struggle. Because the level of the players are differents. But still i believe 4-3-1-2 formation suit United best. Because United have better CMs and CFs than wingers. Then Pogba and De Beek would be a LCM and RCM options

And about Rashford. I have always said he is best as a CF. A Vardy type of CF, not a VAn Persie or Greenwood type of player. So the Martial red card might be a positive factor. To made a change to put RAshford back as CF. A trough ball CF with ability to dribble. And i am glad his top determination and killer instinct is back. 100 % determination and killer instinct is what need to play as CF. Sharp, determinaiton and clinical.

So in the end. I am glad the change of formation was coming. And i really hope he doesnt switch back to this starting line up. 4-2-3-1 with :

Matic - Pogba + Mata - Bruno - James + Rashford. This starting line up, on a regular base will lead Ole on the sacking path. If Ole think he is super smart or genius to think this starting line up will bring United closer to top 4 in the league by desember. Stubborn on this decision. Then he has start/make and put some ingredients and factors that will lead to the sacking.
It has to be reasons and factors, before you can sack a manager and peooples. Reasons are = keep repeating mistakes/bad decisions. 2 = you are stubborn and dont want to make a change, for the better. So i m seeing Ole has done both. But the future. Im not sure. I dont know Ole in person to say he will switch back to poor tactical decisions. But this is how i evulate a manager and people job. Everyone need a new chance to improve and accept your poor decisions and to make a change. If not, then you make it difficult for yourself. You are putting yourself on the sacking path. In football world or wherever.

It easy to win over others. But to win over ourself. Our ego and stubbornes. Its a lot more difficult. Ourselves is our worst enemy. Then if there are better solutions and options we can change. We have to do it. And there are intern and better solutions to Ole to make a change. And he did it. With 3 cm, a CAM and 2 CF.

So sum up. I am not in to sack or keep Ole. I am just observing and eveluate his decisions. I know and believe where United could strenght and improve. Internallly, before adding new players. So all the factors, reasons and ingredients to sacking and surviving has been mentioned. Glad the changes.....came....as soon as better. As earlier the manager realise and accept it. Make the change. Not only good for himself, but the fans and club too. Keep it up.

Great post. My position as well.

 

[bond19821982]

That’s relevant because the point is about improvement and the main factor we finished 3rd is because we beat those top teams forcing them losing big points in important games which something we couldn’t do when we finished 6th. That’s the massive improvement.



80 + 45 + 15 + 50 = 190m. Net spend is useless if we count selling player like Darmian who was never Ole’s first team player but we sold Lukaku, Young and etc which part of Ole’s first team. Losing them means weakened Ole’s squad. And we made improvement despite of spending much less money than Mourinho 360m.

Again, too much of irrelevant points which I am not even going to bite.

He had 200 million to spend on a team that finished on 66 points . He still finished on 66 points the very next year and to me, that's not progress. So unless our ppg or total points on board increases, nothing has improved for me.
Period.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Again, too much of irrelevant points which I am not even going to bite.

He had 200 million to spend on a team that finished on 66 points . He still finished on 66 points the very next year and to me, that's not progress. So unless our ppg or total points on board increases, nothing has improved for me.
Period.

Again, this 66 points you are focussing on is just a plain number that doesn’t tell anything about how the season goes and how we achieved the same points but still finished the season differently.

You need to explain it how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th? Why points is such important figure in this subject?

 

[STYLOISRED]

Again, this 66 points you are focussing on is just a plain number that doesn’t tell anything about how the season goes and how we achieved the same points but still finished the season differently.

You need to explain it how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th? Why points is such important figure in this subject?

It's a silly arguement that ignores context buts, it's the only arguement they can make forgetting that a big chunk of that 200 million (maguire and AWB and Bruno) is the reason why we finished 3rd in the frst place. This season there will obviously be a more uniform points distribution in the table. I can't wait to hear what their arguement will be at the end.

 

[lysglimt]

He was a poor manager and he has made many mistakes. He was spot on against PSG and Leipzig. He was terrible against the league teams apart from newcastle. Let's see what he does against Arsenal and Everton.
The issue is this squad is good enough to compete against any team in the PL if we get it's tactics and selection right.
He also needs to get the players playing in a disciplined system that gets the best out of the team.
People talk about James and his running. He runs but his pressing is not really good.
Ole needs to go with two up front and not three.

He wasn't terrible against the league teams apart from Newcastle. Sorry but that is a stupid thing to say.

If you look at the team we had when we lost to Newcastle last season - we had the following team:
DDG - Young, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Dalot - Mata, Fred, McTominay, Andreas, James - Rashford

It's not easy to win matches with that team

Our subs used that day - Rojo, Chong, a 17 year old Greenwood

 

[Withnail]

Great post. My position as well.

Really? All this ego nonsense?

There are ingredients behind a sacking path and a surviving path. Depend on which ingredients Ole is using and choosing. It will lead him on that path.
Ole is his own worst enemy. His super ego and stubborness

 

[90 + 5min]

Irrelevant point on whom did we beat . Point is we got only 66 and that's exactly where we finished the very next year despite spending huge money (again).

80 +50 + 20 + 50 = 200m - yes he did spent 200m - you are just bringing the net spend argument just to put him in good light. Point is he had enough money to improve the squad .

Points are irrelevant from year to year. How hard is that to understand? One year, league can be tough. Other year it can be easy. Points are irrelevant. What is relevant is fact that we have in terms of how we did in compatition we were in with Solskjaer.

2018-2019 (came in december): 6 in Premier League, CL quarter final, FA-cup quarter final, LC third round (before Solskjaer came)
2019-2020 (full season): 3 in Premier League, Europa League Semi, FA-cup Semi, LC Semi
2020-2021 (started): ?

Progress.

 

[Random Task]

Really? All this ego nonsense?

I don't get the ego stuff either.

When you of think of egotistical United managers past or present; Fergie, Big Ron, LVG and Jose spring to mind. Guys who have won everything there is to win in the game (Big Ron was just a tit).

But Ole? Nah, he's the last guy you'd accuse of having an uncontrollable ego.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Ole having an ego is an odd take.

 

[R77]

He said super ego initially tbf, not necessarily a negative conotation, but not sure if meant as such.

 

[masii]

Again, too much of irrelevant points which I am not even going to bite.

He had 200 million to spend on a team that finished on 66 points . He still finished on 66 points the very next year and to me, that's not progress. So unless our ppg or total points on board increases, nothing has improved for me.
Period.

Numbers like 66 or etc do not make any senses as quality of participants are different season by season. At the end of the season we took 3rd place and it is a progress! Points each team gets in a season is not static it is more dynamic and this dynamic works based on many things like quality of rivals and etc. The only static criteria is position of each team at end!

 

[bond19821982]

Again, this 66 points you are focussing on is just a plain number that doesn’t tell anything about how the season goes and how we achieved the same points but still finished the season differently.

You need to explain it how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th? Why points is such important figure in this subject?

Why would I do that? For me progress is total points on board end of the season. I don't care if we beat top teams or low block teams. End of the day, what matters is final points on board.

Your point would make sense if we get 80 + points and still end up 6th. Then we can start thinking about who were beaten during the season.

our points tally 70, 66,69, 81, 66, 66 - do you see a pattern ? We are slowly becoming an upper mid table team. So for me,let him show points on board and then we can very well say that he has made a progress. All he needs to do is better the ppg of 1.73 .

 

[bond19821982]

Points are irrelevant from year to year. How hard is that to understand? One year, league can be tough. Other year it can be easy. Points are irrelevant. What is relevant is fact that we have in terms of how we did in compatition we were in with Solskjaer.

2018-2019 (came in december): 6 in Premier League, CL quarter final, FA-cup quarter final, LC third round (before Solskjaer came)
2019-2020 (full season): 3 in Premier League, Europa League Semi, FA-cup Semi, LC Semi
2020-2021 (started): ?

Progress.

Oh come on - What next ? we beat City home and away? Let's not bring Rawkish arguments.

End of the day, only point and trophies matters. Yes, he got 3rd and so, he deserved one more season. But that wasn't really progress from a total season points stand point.

 

[Ole's screen]

Oh come on - What next ? we beat City home and away? Let's not bring Rawkish arguments.

End of the day, only point and trophies matters. Yes, he got 3rd and so, he deserved one more season. But that wasn't really progress from a total season points stand point.

Unfortunately you’re completely wrong. Points total doesn’t matter at all, it’s all about the position you get that year with those points. Points totals have never been comparable across seasons. We’ve won the league with 78 points that would only have been 3rd last season. Should be give the medal back? It’s a bizarre argument.

Further 66 points beating all the teams around us suggests we were better than all of them and had some inconsistencies beating the worse teams. Whereas 66 points beating only bottom teams and not our direct rivals means we were a paper tiger.

Incidentally this is why Poch never seriously challenged for the title with Spurs. His Spurs were the masters of thrashing relegation teams. You have to beat your direct rivals too.

 

[midnightmare]

Oh come on - What next ? we beat City home and away? Let's not bring Rawkish arguments.

End of the day, only point and trophies matters. Yes, he got 3rd and so, he deserved one more season. But that wasn't really progress from a total season points stand point.

So if Ole finishes on 76 points this season and wins the Carabao Cup, but we end 6th in the league, you'd consider that progress?
After all, it'd be an increase in points and also a trophy!
For the record, I'd not - since dropping from 3rd to 6th would (for me) be the far more relevant angle than the increase in points and pots.

You can't compare points across seasons - unless you also say that 1998-99 wasn't really a good season as we didn't get that many points in the league.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Oh come on - What next ? we beat City home and away? Let's not bring Rawkish arguments.

End of the day, only point and trophies matters. Yes, he got 3rd and so, he deserved one more season. But that wasn't really progress from a total season points stand point.

have to disagree.

it’s the position you finish that’s important. Liverpool got more points finishing Second the season before last, and that would have won the league most seasons.

then look at the other end. Generally your target is 40 points to stay up, it teams have been relegated with that number,whilst some have stayed up when they get around 35 points. Which would you prefer a higher no. of points or to finish 17th?

so back to last season, we finished 3rd, that’s what is important, couldn’t care less about the number of points. It told me that only 2 other teams finished above us.

 

[bond19821982]

have to disagree.

it’s the position you finish that’s important. Liverpool got more points finishing Second the season before last, and that would have won the league most seasons.

then look at the other end. Generally your target is 40 points to stay up, it teams have been relegated with that number,whilst some have stayed up when they get around 35 points. Which would you prefer a higher no. of points or to finish 17th?

so back to last season, we finished 3rd, that’s what is important, couldn’t care less about the number of points. It told me that only 2 other teams finished above us.

Say, if Liverpool wins the league with 100 points but we finish with 50 points and get second.
I would consider that as a horrible season but you would consider that as an excellent season. Thats the difference. Fair enough, but for me we have gone backwards .

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don't think our league form last season was anything more than average. Our run post-COVID break was very good and we played some good stuff. I still felt we rode our luck at times and struggled in midfield.

The positives for me more came in the sense of team camaraderie, the positive unified spirit that Ole had built and how the squad was shaping up. He got rid of the right players and I have no doubt that the rest of the perceived deadwood will fecked off next summer. Our squad and bench options are now actual game changers and we finally have some depth. This is a much better, more unified squad than the burning embers left by Jose.

Tactically, Ole has improved since joining us in a monumental manner. From reading up on him, he seems keen to learn more all the time and progress his coaching style. Our football needed a massive overhaul after Jose and that was going to take time to implement. I can't say I've always been a fan of Ole's football and at times I thought we looked poorly coached. Maybe I was too harsh and didn't fully appreciete the task of implementing his style of play and bringing in the correct personnel to do so. I'm still not sold on all of his signings but he has certainly improved players such as Fred, Rashford, Greenwood and McTominay which is a huge positive. Rashord was being wtitten off on here but I always felt it was Jose holding him back. Nevertheless, Ole has really elevated him to another level. I also feel his handling of Greenwood has been top notch.

Our league form needs improving though. We laboured a-bit against Newcastle but he made some good subs and turned the game. I feel ge got it wrong against Chelsea but it's not the end of the world. Agsinst PSG and Leipzig he got the tactics totally spot on and I can't say how impressive both those games were. Despite the childish insults on here: Tuchel and Naglelsmann are very talented coaches and Ole played a blinder against both.

 

[Withnail]

Say, if Liverpool wins the league with 100 points but we finish with 50 points and get second.
I would consider that as a horrible season but you would consider that as an excellent season. Thats the difference. Fair enough, but for me we have gone backwards .

You could have chosen points totals that have some grounding in reality. 100pts for the winner and 50 for second place is just silly and undermines your point completely.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Why would I do that? For me progress is total points on board end of the season. I don't care if we beat top teams or low block teams. End of the day, what matters is final points on board.

Your point would make sense if we get 80 + points and still end up 6th. Then we can start thinking about who were beaten during the season.

our points tally 70, 66,69, 81, 66, 66 - do you see a pattern ? We are slowly becoming an upper mid table team. So for me,let him show points on board and then we can very well say that he has made a progress. All he needs to do is better the ppg of 1.73 .

Why for you total points in different seasons is a way to determine progress?

If total point is the only thing matter here then why didn’t we finish 3rd in 18/19 with 66 points? So how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th?

I need to know the answers of these questions, you need to give explanation & detail because so far there is nothing behind of your logic and reasoning.

 

[bond19821982]

You could have chosen points totals that have some grounding in reality. 100pts for the winner and 50 for second place is just silly and undermines your point completely.

Not really, that's the whole point. If we just go by the position it doesn't say anything.

What matters is points end of the season and it doesn't lie.

 

[bond19821982]

Why for you total points in different seasons is a way to determine progress?

I need to know the answers of these questions, you need to give explanation & detail because so far there is nothing behind of your logic and reasoning.

As usual, you are way off the topic and blaming others for the lack of comprehensive arguments.

My logical reasoning is quite clear and its explained very clearly above mate. If you still don't get it, there is nothing I can about it. Sorry bro !

 

[Tel074]

No, that's a whopping 14 point increase from previous year.

The problem is when you finish on 66 points, come 6th previous year, spend another 200m and still finish on 66 points the next year ( yes, we got 3rd because others were worse). That's not an improvement to me.

That's really a pathetic argument. You obviously have some sort of agenda towards the manager because there was a clear improvement in getting 3rd but instead of admitting that you are telling us we got 3rd because everyone was was shit . So if we finish 2nd and win the CL this year it will be because everyone else is shit.
Grow up and stop arguing something that just isn't there to argue

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

As usual, you are way off the topic and blaming others for the lack of comprehensive arguments.

My logical reasoning is quite clear and its explained very clearly above mate. If you still don't get it, there is nothing I can about it. Sorry bro !

My questions are relevant to the topic. It’s about the total points that you are using in the argument.

Why can’t you answer the question bro? At least answer 2 or 3 of them will ya.

1) Why for you total points in different seasons is a way to determine progress?

2) If total point is the only thing matter here then why didn’t we finish 3rd in 18/19 with 66 points?

3) So how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th?

 

[Withnail]

Not really, that's the whole point. If we just go by the position it doesn't say anything.

What matters is points end of the season and it doesn't lie.

What I mean is claiming anyone would be happy with 50pts is nonsensical as there's zero chance you could come second with that total.

Also clearly what matters is league position. To argue points totals are more important than league position is ridiculous to be honest.

 

[Tel074]

My questions are relevant to the topic. It’s about the total points that you are using in the argument.

Why can’t you answer the question bro? At least answer 2 or 3 of them will ya.

1) Why for you total points in different seasons is a way to determine progress?

2) If total point is the only thing matter here then why didn’t we finish 3rd in 18/19 with 66 points?

3) So how is it possible for United to finish 3rd with the same points when United finished 6th?

Mate what you are saying is spot on but that guy just doesn't want to see the truth . You are better just letting it slide before you lose the will to live haha

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Not really, that's the whole point. If we just go by the position it doesn't say anything.

It does. We finished 3rd because we beat the top teams & our rival, something we couldn’t do.

Noticed how in 18/19 season they were only 4 to 6 points away from us? If we can beat them we could actually steal those 4-6 points away from them and finish above them which what we did in 19/20. That’s improvement.

What matters is points end of the season and it doesn't lie.

Why is it the only thing matter?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The length some Ole outers are going to make a rubbish point

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Again, too much of irrelevant points which I am not even going to bite.

He had 200 million to spend on a team that finished on 66 points . He still finished on 66 points the very next year and to me, that's not progress. So unless our ppg or total points on board increases, nothing has improved for me.
Period.

I agree with this.

 

[90 + 5min]

Oh come on - What next ? we beat City home and away? Let's not bring Rawkish arguments.

End of the day, only point and trophies matters. Yes, he got 3rd and so, he deserved one more season. But that wasn't really progress from a total season points stand point.

I see some people asked you already.

If you win the league with 72 p one year. Next year 72 p isn't enough for even Champions League. Does that mean that it wasn't good season winning Premier League with 72 p? For me, if you win the league you win the league. If you come 3r you come 3rd. You can't realy compare to other seasons when we talk about points. It is not right. Every season is different.

Just because someone gets impressive amount of points one season doesn't mean that others are bad. Can we sometime say: oh, that was brilliant? Without saying the other teams are bad?

 

[bond19821982]

That's really a pathetic argument. You obviously have some sort of agenda towards the manager because there was a clear improvement in getting 3rd but instead of admitting that you are telling us we got 3rd because everyone was was shit . So if we finish 2nd and win the CL this year it will be because everyone else is shit.
Grow up and stop arguing something that just isn't there to argue

Agenda mate - I am here for a civil conversation and my points are exactly based on facts that the team has achieved . I don't care if Ole is retained or sacked tomorrow/next year.

If it irks you, feel free to put me on ignore . But don't take that kind of shit on me.

 

[bond19821982]

What I mean is claiming anyone would be happy with 50pts is nonsensical as there's zero chance you could come second with that total.

Also clearly what matters is league position. To argue points totals are more important than league position is ridiculous to be honest.

No, I was proving a point is that league position doesn't tell you the whole story. We finished 33 points behind the champions despite spending 200m and thats just washed out because we got 3rd.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No, I was proving a point is that league position doesn't tell you the whole story. We finished 33 points behind the champions despite spending 200m and thats just washed out because we got 3rd.

It does. We finished 3rd because we beat the top teams & our rival, something we couldn’t do.

Noticed how in 18/19 season they were only 4 to 6 points away from us? If we can beat them we could actually steal those 4-6 points away from them and finish above them which what we did in 19/20. That’s improvement.

So now your turn to explain the whole story why didn’t we finish 3rd in 18/19 with 66 points?

 

[bond19821982]

I see some people asked you already.

If you win the league with 72 p one year. Next year 72 p isn't enough for even Champions League. Does that mean that it wasn't good season winning Premier League with 72 p? For me, if you win the league you win the league. If you come 3r you come 3rd. You can't realy compare to other seasons when we talk about points. It is not right. Every season is different.

Just because someone gets impressive amount of points one season doesn't mean that others are bad. Can we sometime say: oh, that was brilliant? Without saying the other teams are bad?

Ofcourse it has to be relative to what the champions get. If we are champions by scoring 72 points means the league was extremely tight. The problem is, when we have the champions at 100 points and we get 66 yet we get third means our competitors has been piss poor. Definitely the quality of league is same for everyone ?

 

[lysglimt]

If our last season had been reversed - we started strongly and fell apart in the last half, then 66 points wouldn't be progress. But progress is a mixture of many things. I can easily mention 10 areas where Man United as a club look a lot stronger and have progressed a lot since OGS arrived - but of course not all of it is down to him. Here are a few of the main areas where we have progressed a LOT.

Our strongest 11 - you can't even compare it to where we were when OGS started. Now we have 3-4 players who can be mentioned as best in the league in their position.

Squad - Henderson, Williams, Bailly, Tuanzebe, Telles, McTominay, Bruno, Mata, Rashford, Cavani - Romero, Mengi, Fosu Mensah, Lingard, Ighalo, Jones, James. This is our squad if we remove all 11 starters from the Leipzig-game. 1 year ago we talked about a paper-thin squad - now we have really good players not making the match-day squad.

Youth - it's never been better. Yes the class of 92 was better - but that was a one off, in the 5-6 years after we hardly produced anyone apart from Phil Neville and Wes Brown. Same with the class of 2011 with Lingard , Pogba, Keanex2 and Sam Johnstone to mention some - it was a one off. Now we have 15-20 youngsters who all look class. Of course all wont make it - but the majority of them will play in the P.L - or equvivalent abroad. Nicky Butt of course deserves a lot of the credit, but I assume OGS had some say in us signing a few of these youngsters who will dominate youth football for the next few years.

Environment - yes Romero is understandably not happy. But 3 managers in a row created an environment the players hated. One thing that made Ferguson unique was that almost no players have had anything bad to say about him - even players he kicked out of the club. Stam, Nistelrooy, Beckham - all of them eventually came around and made up with Ferguson. Solskjaer has created an athmosphere where the players genuinely seem happy.

Transfers - Yes we overpaid for Maguire, but AWB was a brilliant signing, Bruno will go over in history as one of the very best signings we have made in modern times. I could stop here - and his transfer record has already wiped the floor with Moyes, Mourinho and LvG. James - even if he fails to make an impact will be sold for the same amount we bought him for, Telles look lika bargain for the price we paid, and v.d Beek is too much quality not to make an impact at the club - and once again, if he fails to make an impact - we will get our money back. So for the first time in a long time (including the last 3-4 years with Ferguson) we have signed players whose total transfer value is higher than we signed them for. We could probably sell Bruno alone for close to £100 million now.

Attacking football - we have creativity and we have pace. We have so much quality up front that we can scare any team in Europe now. Under Mourinho, Moyes, LvG - we could mostly scare our opponents by moving Fellaini up front and putting crosses into the box. Now we have Martial, Bruno, Pogba, Greenwood, Cavani, Rashford and v.d Beek.

Reputation - 23 months ago we lost 3-1 to Liverpool in one of the worst matches I have ever seen us play. They had 36 shots against our 6. We had Darmian, Young, Lingard, Dalot, Bailly, Lukaku, Herrera, Matic etc - which quality footballer would appreciate joining United after watching that game ?And it wasn't a one off - it was basically how we had played for 4 months that season. Compare that to our performance against PSG and Leipzig - and suddenly we have a team most top footballers would love to join. Playing with Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood - it would be a dream for most quality footballers.

Maybe - we wont get the points we need for this season to be a success - but anyone saying there hasn't been progress at United over the last 24 months are clueless. Progress isn't only the points we get - but granted it's an important part of it. But he has turned United from an awful side to a team with so much quality - and even if he fails and get fired, my God he will have made the job easy for the next person to arrive here.