Well, that's a lie...
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Well, that's a lie...
My argument, just to be clear, is that Chelsea did not park the bus. the 45% of the game being in midfield is just part of the argument - but the biggest root is from watching the game itself. I never rely solely on stats, that would be stupid. Anyone pointing just to stats to prove a point is likely to not get the whole picture. Chelsea were categorically not parking the bus for the game, they may have for the final quarter as we pushed for the win but to take that as an entire game reflection would be stupidity. As below, it was pointed out that they were actually the better side for a majority of the first half for example:
Yeah, I think your assessment is certainly fair. I agree they prioritized defence and only attacked when they saw an opportunity. It was a counter attack approach to leverage their pace. That is not parking the bus, so yeah we can finally move on from this and get the thread back on topic I guess.
Yeah very true and not many teams in this league will allow him to do that so needs to be used sparingly
Good post. The game was literally there for the taking but both managers generally shit the bed.
You are focusing on one unimportant word ''parking the bus'' just to argue, absolutely bollocks. That was never the argument all and you are missing the point. Your argument was about us being passive, for some reason you are moving away from ''passive'' as the argument to ''parking the bus''.
And if you are willing to read the whole post you could see I also mentioned counter.
End of the day, the point still stand. We are forced to play passive because of Lampard's approach to play defensive just like how Mourinho forced Klopp in 17/18. Chelsea played defensive, sit deep, focusing on passing the ball across the back from side ways to backward & barely even attack us, I put it into short word as parking the bus, if you don't like the term of parking the bus then so be it don't move away from the main argument.
This is such a weird take.
Edit: I was going to just keep this short but feck it.
This entire post is such a weird take.
"I think it is very difficult to reson with an Ole in fan, they will always find a reason of shortcomings"
Few things genuinely get me as riled up as when someone genuinely says that explaining something is somehow wrong. That nothing matters and we should just be winning regardless. Ok. But how? Bring something new to the table besides "Get Poch". Let me throw a wrench in your fandom: Tottenham is down at 1.2ppg without one single player. That's 45points on the season without their singular most important player in the squad.
Explaining why something is not an excuse. Just get the f*** out of here with that "hard man" bullshit.
No one is finding excuses for Ole here. At least I'm not. A few of us here tend to not forget that there's players on the pitch that play the actual game that are by some miracle always excused when it comes to discussing the one person that can actually be fired in the middle of a season.
Bayern operates in a different climate than the EPL clubs. It's not about the quality, they have the massive fortune of being in a position to always buy the biggest talents in their own league.
Real Madrid just had a decade of Christiano Ronaldo
Barcelona had OVER a decade of Lionel Messi. They are currently falling apart.
If you are genuinely comparing the players of peak Barcelona and Real Madrid to the editions of Manchester United since SAF, then I don't know what reality you live in. If you're also going to tell me that this squad "should be winning the Champions League with a better manager" then I also don't know what to tell you.
EVERY SINGLE TEAM THAT ENDED THE SEASON WHEN WE DID ARE ALSO OFF TO A ROCKEY START IN THE LEAGUE, MATCH FITNESS TAKES TIME TO BUILD UP. IT IS NOT A COINSIDENCE. WE ALSO TOOK THE GAME TO A PSG TEAM WITH SOME OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD AND WON DESERVEDLY YOU ABSOLUTE ONION. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE FANS THAT IMPLODE OVER A 0-0 RESULT AGAINST CHELSEA WHO JUST BOUGHT PLAYERS FOR ALL THE MONEY IN FOOTBALL MAKES ME LOSE MY ABSOLUTE MIND.
You know, I would have LIKED a better result. But for all you, or I, or anyone knows, playing Pogba or DVB or anyone else might have meant that we win the game. Or we lose the game. All we know is that we can closer to winning the game than we did a draw. Rashford lobs that ball instead of shooting we're in the lead. We got some luck with Harry Maguire being a buffoon.
"we still play like a mid table team (defensive against very good teams and clueless against mid table teams)"
The fact that you manage to say this, after beating both Chelsea and Manchester City home and away in a single season for the first time in club history. after just setting a new club record in consecutive away wins, and recruiting young talent en masse... Like.. my guy. You're not doing anything but whine.
Tell me. What do you want? What exactly is it that you want right now?
What is wrong with the PSG match?
What is wrong with the Newcastle result?
What is wrong with a 0-0 home draw v Chelsea? Do you recall the beating we took against Tottenham when we played the team you probably would have preferred to play? Can you imagine why we didn't?
We've just entered the hardest month of football this season. We got Leipzig and Arsenal this week. PSG and Chelsea the past week. This is such a perfect time to create some negative noise around the team. Just absolutely massively well done.
The fact that this thread is flaring up like a bad rash after 1 win and 1 draw out of those 2 first games make me wonder how spoiled and entitled you can possibly be? No one is accepting mediocrity here. We accepted third last season because it was a good result, what, do you think this squad could have taken it to Liverpool and City with another manage in charge while playing half the season with Andreas Pereira and Jesse Lingard as quad staples?
You're literally complaining about the end result when we are 10% of the way there.
If my kid started complaining about the road being long this soon I'd leave him on the roadside of the Autobahn and pick him up when I return tan and relaxed from Croatia 3 weeks later. Just like I want to do with this thread and your inevitable reply of "ExuSESSssSs"
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This thread is getting worse Every match is overanalyzed to suit an Ole in or Ole out narrative.
This is basically it, and is the only source of my frustration for the match.
But, considering our generally good big game record under Ole, I can cut him some slack. Especially since the draw was the better result for us than it was for them and how almost every other result went this weekend.
It was more a point gained, than two lost, IMO.
You dragged out the park the bus argument, not me.
My point was that 1) I'd have preferred 352 (Adnan suggested Ole wanted this too but had selection problems).. 2) if we were doing 433 then to implement with more urgency and 3) Ole made poor sub choices and positional dragged players out.
You came out with tripe about parking the bus and wouldn't accept you were wrong. As I said, youre just digging your heels in for the sake of it. I've never seen a team park the bus and also be called as the better side dictating the play, 40 mins in by Gary Neville. Christ.
Non-sense & bollocks. You started first by avoiding the original argument about being passive and when I stopped talking to you, you tag me in your conversation with Adnan and then you brought it back and dragged it out with this post:
Everyone told you, you are wrong. If that‘s your problem, fine you win. You are always right sir, we had 14 shots while they had 6 shots show Lampard didn’t sit deep and play defensive approach of game.
Yup needs locking. And that's from somebody who never suggests locking threads
You had just quoted me shortly before Adnan's post. After that I tagged you, agreed with him and said leave it. True to form you kept trying to claim it was still parking the bus.
Yeah, now you're just off making shit up.
Grow up.
He's just hanging on and deserves a bit more time.
Finished third last season so has bought himself time but that was a close call, a loss to Leicester on the last game and I think he would have been fired. Truth of the matter he actually had one of the lowest tallies in recent history too beating Moyes' season that finished 7th by just 2 points.
We need to push on fast, if after the Arsenal and Everton games we're still lingering around 15th then actions may have to be taken.
Finished third last season so has bought himself time but that was a close call, a loss to Leicester on the last game and I think he would have been fired. Truth of the matter he actually had one of the lowest tallies in recent history too beating Moyes' season that finished 7th by just 2 points.
We need to push on fast, if after the Arsenal and Everton games we're still lingering around 15th then actions may have to be taken.
I think the style of play we have is arguably worse than the one Moyes had with us.
It needs to improve if Ole wants to keep his job.
Arsenal next feels like another low scoring game. Can we break them down?
It needs to improve if Ole wants to keep his job.
Arsenal next feels like another low scoring game. Can we break them down?
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jeez you're a bit tetchy today
You only chat shit but no action. Before telling others to leave it, you need to tell yourself that first. By tagging me into your conversation with Adnan and bring the argument back again means you are dragging it out.
I will make it short and don't care for the pile of excuses you are putting, do you think the Ole outers are basing their opinions on the last draw? this is naive. We were literally one game away from finishing 5th in a historically low points count for 3rd and 4th and it was obvious from last season he is not good enough. It is his third season and he has been here for 2 years and hiding behind (building process excuses) will not save his as*. To rap it up. Challenge for major trophies is the only measure of success this year. I hope he can do it, but I doubt it.
This year is probably the toughest 20 teams we’ve had in a while. Some major improvements for the big teams, but teams like Villa, Leeds, Wolves, West Ham and evidently Southampton are all excellent. Even the others are strong. If we’re in the top 4 come Christmas it’ll be a miracle to be honest. Not sure Ole can push us to that level where we’ll need to be consistent enough to beat these improved sides.
The problem is, Ole in fans are basing it on a 3rd position last year while it means very little when you take into consideration the amount of games we lost and drew. I as someone who believes he is not good enough, want to know when do his supporters are going to ask questions about winning trophies?
We have come one kick away from losing the CL final too. Both of Fergie's CL wins have come based on one kick. Are you going to try diminish that too?
So you are basing Ole out on results? Top 3, 3 semi finals? And this is his second full season.
So if we get 78 points and win the title will you say its a shit title to win because the last few years its taken 95 points plus?
I am basing it on where we were as, not only team, but as a club since Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill left us. Looking back at last year, even those who think Solskjaer need to be gone, must admit that it was very well done and with little luck we could have some cup trophies in our hands.
I think that next season we should be demanding fight for Premier League crown. There you go. From a - give Solskjaer time - supporter. This year we should be top 4 although this season is wierd in terms of that everyone can beat anyone.
I don't think I have ever seen reaching semi-finals as a claimable positive. It seems weird that people are making such a big thing out of losing three semi-finals, and really emphasises the effort people are putting in to make last season look better than it was.
Nobody can claim that last season was good; it wasn't (your standard must be very low, otherwise). The points total and results were diabolical; the performances for the majority of the season were poor. We finished third with the third/fourth-best team (there was so little difference in the points that it makes no difference) in the league without even being close to putting pressure on the title contenders. It isn't some great achievement; it is average at best.
It isn't good enough that we are still struggling to maintain any form or set a particular play style. We still struggle to open up defences and very rarely create anything of note unless the game opens up. This isn't good enough going into what is, pretty much, his third season. A lot of people have praised our attacking intent and complained about Mourinho, but you don't seem to understand our expected goals from open play is actually less than it was under Mourinho. We have become heavily reliant on penalties.
Under Solskjaer, it looks all too often that if we don't get a penalty we are not going to score. When we play against teams that don't give us space, we still look slow and lethargic. We just try the same things over and over again and hope that Fernandes pulls off a moment of magic.
I feel like we are really treading water with him; I don't see these massive improvements that people make out. The good results against the top teams didn't even start under him. In second-half of Mourinho's second season, we took 12/15 points against the other members of the top six (19/30 points over the entire season); we also beat Juventus the next season. Van Gaal also took considerable points against the other members of the top six in 14/15 (18/30 points). Solskjar took 18/30 last season, so he hasn't actually been any better in this regard.
We have been effective against the top sides for quite a few seasons, but we have struggled against the lower sides for a long time (Mourinho's second season aside); that still hasn't been fixed into Solskjaer's third season.
Nobody can claim that last season was good; it wasn't (your standard must be very low, otherwise). The points total and results were diabolical; the performances for the majority of the season were poor. We finished third with the third/fourth-best team (there was so little difference in the points that it makes no difference) in the league without even being close to putting pressure on the title contenders. It isn't some great achievement; it is average at best.
It isn't good enough that we are still struggling to maintain any form or set a particular play style. We still struggle to open up defences and very rarely create anything of note unless the game opens up. This isn't good enough going into what is, pretty much, his third season. A lot of people have praised our attacking intent and complained about Mourinho, but you don't seem to understand our expected goals from open play is actually less than it was under Mourinho. We have become heavily reliant on penalties.
Under Solskjaer, it looks all too often that if we don't get a penalty we are not going to score. When we play against teams that don't give us space, we still look slow and lethargic. We just try the same things over and over again and hope that Fernandes pulls off a moment of magic.
I feel like we are really treading water with him; I don't see these massive improvements that people make out. The good results against the top teams didn't even start under him. In second-half of Mourinho's second season, we took 12/15 points against the other members of the top six (19/30 points over the entire season); we also beat Juventus the next season. Van Gaal also took considerable points against the other members of the top six in 14/15 (18/30 points). Solskjar took 18/30 last season, so he hasn't actually been any better in this regard.
We have been effective against the top sides for quite a few seasons, but we have struggled against the lower sides for a long time (Mourinho's second season aside); that still hasn't been fixed into Solskjaer's third season.
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How on earth did you come to this conclusion?
At a later stage of a season I can see how a result like that could be better for us than our opponents. But five games into the season, it's simply two home points dropped.
He hasn't made me cringe. He could have said 101 things, but to say the crowd would have won the game makes him look a bigger mug than some supporters of utd and opposition think he already is.
Can I ask you couple of questions about your text.
1. What is good season for you, looking at last year? Sure, we all wanted trophies butdid you actually think we could beat Liverpool / ManCity in the league and win cups?
Nobody cares about points. It is all about position when you look at table. Sir Alex Ferguson never had close to 100 points. Klopp and Guardiola did. Do you think that Klopp or Guardiola are better managers? Do you think their current teams are better then ours when we were in our best era?
2. Penalty are part of games and I'm not ashamed to score from penalties. That only means that opponent need to break rules to control us in penalty box. You are talking about magic from Fernandes. He is top clas and we expect him that. Do you have same opinion on Messi and Barcelona or Juventus and Ronaldo? Neymar and PSG? Salah/Mane and Liverpool? That those teams are nothing without those players?
3. You are giving credit to van Gaal and Mourinho. Don't get me wrong. Two brilliant managers. But Solskjaer have been doing better then them in league except Mourinho second place 17/18. Why not give him a little bit of credit?
Let me ask you one thing, do you think having a crowd would have made a difference in the game?
Not ventured into here for a while but wow some of you are getting tetchy. Capitals and bold blocked text ffs that used to get you warned 
Just pre-agree what he needs to do result wise to keep his job and wait til he does or doesn't do it. It's the only way his backers will concede a point and it's the only way his detractors can be kept happy. If his backers aren't willing to do that you really don't have a leg to stand on when people complain.
We know missing out on top 4 will get him sacked and being a good bit off top 4 by Christmas. I'd say where we are now if he doesn't get 6pts in the next 5 games he'll be gone.
Just pre-agree what he needs to do result wise to keep his job and wait til he does or doesn't do it. It's the only way his backers will concede a point and it's the only way his detractors can be kept happy. If his backers aren't willing to do that you really don't have a leg to stand on when people complain.
We know missing out on top 4 will get him sacked and being a good bit off top 4 by Christmas. I'd say where we are now if he doesn't get 6pts in the next 5 games he'll be gone.
Because we have a game in hand on Chelsea and if that game is won, we're ahead of them by a point. While neither side saw it as a must-win, one team would have been more fine with the draw than the other. That side, in my view, was us.
But I can see the other side of it too. We haven't played Liverpool or City, while Arsenal have played both, and Chelsea have played Liverpool.
Essentially, it's probably best if we don't conduct major analyses after every game so early on in this, most unique of seasons.
1. No, I didn't expect us to challenge for the title, but that doesn't mean results shouldn't have been a lot better than they were. You say nobody cares about points, but that is the same as saying you don't care about results as they are inseperable.
- Surely your second point actually backs up that our season was actually pretty poor? I think the quality of the league is weaker, which has resulted in such ridiculous points levels over the last few seasons. Liverpool and Man City are not better than Manutd/Chelsea of 2007/2008, so surely Solskjaer should be expected to get better results when the league is weaker. Since he didn't, surely that shows last season was poor.
2. It is not being ashamed, but finding it boring that you have to rely on penalties as it just confirms that we find it difficult to create against teams that don't open themselves up. Penalties can be entertaining, but not when they become commonplace. In the end, you want to see your team cutting through the opposition with intricate passing, pace, and good movement; we rarely see that, and most of those moments come from Fernandes. It is too much reliance, and it tells.
- Having players carry out moments of magic is fine, but being so heavily reliant on it is not necessary. You don't need the best players to be able to play intricate football; good players suffice. Liverpool's midfield is not as good as their 2008/09 midfield (it is good, but not really special at all), yet they have played some brilliant football over the past three seasons, breaking down teams, maintaining high pressure, not letting the opposition settle, scoring important goals from drive. We don't really do that, and rather just wait for Fernandes to do something; we more just go through the motions until Fernandes pulls something off or we get a penalty.
- You can look at Brighton and Southampton this season to show that you don't need top players to play like this against teams. I mean Brighton had us pinned in our half and created plenty, just poor finishing cost them which is a limitation of funds, a limitation we do not have to such an extent. We should be doing more.
3. I wasn't actually giving credit to either there, but just stating that beating top sides hasn't actually been a major issue of ours; it has actually been taking points from lower opposition where we have been abysmal, aside from 17/18 where we did take a decent number. We still struggle in this regard because we struggle to create without space.
Losing a CL final vs squeaking into the top 4 on a point total that’ll rarely get you top 4. Context is your friend.
We play defensive football and adapt to opposition in every game. And they don't complain. It becomes normal thing to play as underdog in every bigger game.
So question about titles will never come. Even with this squad people say how he can't reach 4th spot and it is not because of him, it is because of Glazers.
Ambition and standard were never low as they are now.
People just like Ole that’s all it comes dole too. They defend him because they like him and it’s kind of pathetic.
No complains if he wins the league, In fact I will praise him for taking advantage of everyone is shit and he wins the league and I think this season will be this type of season that the winner will not get more than 85 points, that is why we should be pushing to win the league this year.
Not really. It tells that points are irrelevant if you compare them to other seasons. Of course more points is a result of more wins but points under a current season can be influenced by injuries, bad / good refeering, harder league and so on. So once again, comparing Solskjaer to Mourinho and van Gaal and whoever isn't a good thing. One year 70 points can be amazing, another year it is laughing stock. And if you didn't expect us beating Liverpool/ManCity but all other teams, then the team managed to do what you expected them. Right? Coming 3rd. What do you expect us to do this year?
You didn't answer my question or I don't understand. Does Barcelona depend on Messi? Does Juventus depend on Ronaldo? Does Liverpool depend on Salah/Mane? Does PSG depend on Neymar? Every team have a player or two they depend on. They are not whole team but they are big big contribution to their attack. You are right about not needing top players to produce good football. But neither of those teams will ever win the league unless they have some "big" impact player. Maybe Danny Ings could be one. When Leicester won league they had Vardy who shined like the brightest star.
Brighton played us when we pretty much came back from vacation without preseason. I wouldn't take that game as some standard. Not saying that they are bad. They are nice club and try to play nice football.
I think it is too much time.
This is fair enough. Although i don't see why we should not challenge this year. Squad is good for it
You can't be saying that around here.
No
Depends on the context. We keep hearing about how Klopp took 3 seasons to have them challenge for the league. While it may be true the difference was the improvement made month by month. If Ole gets us playing consistent and by that I don't mean purple patches followed by crap results then I wouldn't have a problem giving him till next season to mount a league challenge but at the minute there's too much difference between our highs and lows. If that changes then so will my opinion that Ole isn't the man to take us forward.
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