Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Viral United]

It's bad when our home form is the way it is. It's bad when the last game played at Old Trafford we were smashed 6-1. It's bad when we struggle to score at home without a penalty.

It will come good, as I said its not good when we lots to CP or Spurs but today is not worst result.
And really we didn't struggle for score, we have 14( I guess ) shots and their keeper had good game.

 

[OrcaFat]

Signs of the team getting up to speed at last. I think Ole is dealing with the poor start really well. With hindsight mistakes were made in the close season, managing player holiday and pre-season etc. Possibly these were calculated decisions knowing that we would inevitably start slowly but surely things have gone a lot worse than expected. But still not too bad really.

I can understand gloom about the results but anyone actually watching the games must have seen the great football we’re playing, in fits and starts, but it’s there.

A few selections have been questionable but that’s the job, everyone thinks they can do better. My personal bugbear is Ole’s persistence with James but I’m sure there are reasons behind it. Donny will play more as the season wears on, Mason will come back in, Martial will hit some form.

The overall curve is on the up.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

It's bad when our home form is the way it is. It's bad when the last game played at Old Trafford we were smashed 6-1. It's bad when we struggle to score at home without a penalty.

We've lost a few games at home and same time set records away. How many games have we won by penalties at home? I can understand Ole being inconsistent but this is just not true. The same guys looking at past few results (while ignoring everyone who went far in Europe started badly) and also ignoring the great work done last season (only 66 points) just reeks of being reactionary. Ironically also the same people missing over the last 2 weeks.

 

[Godfather]

You don't? Says who? Kids in here? Mata has been very good and James usefull (maybe not today).

James useful....And you are talking about kids on here.

 

[Greck]

It's a good result but if I'm being honest I'd be more swayed if these big game results came off of good attacking displays. I already know Ole can set up a mean low block counter, I knew the same about Jose and still wanted him gone, especially as this style hasn't translated to sustainable results when it was time to play on the front foot

 

[Lewnited]

They've had a tough week. Let them enjoy the fact we didn't win despite being the better team.

I just don't understand the need for the patronising tone of comments like these... Do you honestly think anyone's taking any sense of enjoyment out of having to question the manager? We just took our first home point of the season away from a Chelsea team who turned up and made no attempt to threaten us!

In isolation that may not be that bad, but we've also taken a grand total of 7 points from a possible 15, with Arsenal and Everton in our next two fixtures. We've barely scraped past the mighty Brighton and gotten turned over 6-1 by Spurs. You understandably may not think it's cause for concern, but the condescending tone of some of the posts in here gives me a headache...

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

It's the bigger picture I am looking at. If teams do exactly what Chelsea did today (and many of them are) we are in big trouble with our style of football.

So low blocks? Didn't the run after lockdown ended prove we can do this now to a great degree and be successful most of the time?

 

[anant]

It's the bigger picture I am looking at. If teams do exactly what Chelsea did today (and many of them are) we are in big trouble with our style of football.

If others do that, I'm quite certain you'd see us push more men forward. The reason why we couldn't do that is a long ball would mean that Pulisic, Werner would go 1v1 vs Dave

 

[Anustart89]

So low blocks? Didn't the run after lockdown ended prove we can do this now to a great degree and be successful most of the time?

Not really. At the end we clearly struggled and limped over the line. We secured 3rd with a lot of penalties and with help from Leicester and Chelsea who dropped 34 and 21 points respectively in 17 games. But everyone was busy blaming fatigue, just like they did during the end of the season before, difference being that we got the results we needed with a lot of help from an unsustainable run of penalties being given for us.

 

[Viral United]

On paper, no, but the way the game went it just shows how we struggle to beat any team that doesn't come at us and leave space in behind.

I mean, tactically his choice of personnel doesn't make any sense. What is your attacking plan when you put Mata and James on the wings? Possession? Counter-attack?

I think we lack dept on those area, I would had choose Greenwood than Mata, but in other-hand Mata had good last game so Ole might had given him chance.
We also have to remember that we have some big games coming up, so we will going to see lots of squad changes.
Today I think Ole was worried about repeat of FA cup semis and they really set up the same way, but this time we were more conservative in our approach.

 

[edgecutter]

We've lost a few games at home and same time set records away. How many games have we won by penalties at home? I can understand Ole being inconsistent but this is just not true. The same guys looking at past few results (while ignoring everyone who went far in Europe started badly) and also ignoring the great work done last season (only 66 points) just reeks of being reactionary. Ironically also the same people missing over the last 2 weeks.

I said it earlier to someone else..it' the bigger picture I am looking at. Any other day a draw against Chelsea is fine, but we now need to get a win against Arsenal because 7/8 from 18 is going to have to bring serious questions about where we are going. For Ole to remain for me as a manager I need to see consistency, not have a purple patch and be poor again. Bad results happen, but that squad is better that what we have seen adn Ole is far to stuck with this 4-2-3-1 formation which is becoming far too predictable for other teams to play against.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I just don't understand the need for the patronising tone of comments like these... Do you honestly think anyone's taking any sense of enjoyment out of having to question the manager? We just took our first home point of the season away from a Chelsea team who turned up and made no attempt to threaten us!

In isolation that may not be that bad, but we've also taken a grand total of 7 points from a possible 15, with Arsenal and Everton in our next two fixtures. We've barely scraped past the mighty Brighton and gotten turned over 6-1 by Spurs. You understandably may not think it's cause for concern, but the condescending tone of some of the posts in here gives me a headache...

I really think some are actually enjoying it in their own way but that's not a discussion for now.

It is worrying a bit and we could have been better with team selections. But it's not the end of the world everyone is making it out to be. The tone is a result to the absolute dross posted here after every draw/loss by the same guys who don't bring any point to the table but like a good ol moan.

 

[Anustart89]

I think we lack dept on those area, I would had choose Greenwood than Mata, but in other-hand Mata had good last game so Ole might had given him chance.
We also have to remember that we have some big games coming up, so we will going to see lots of squad changes.
Today I think Ole was worried about repeat of FA cup semis and they really set up the same way, but this time we were more conservative in our approach.

I've been very critical of Ole's insistence on 4-2-3-1 without having the players for it, or persisting wuth Pogba as CDM. Why does he persist with a formation he doesn't have players for? I was quiet after the PSG game because I was happy that he showed that he could switch it up tactically and utilize a formation that best suited the players at his disposal in their preferred positions (dropping Pogba), but come the weekend he reverts back to the 4-2-3-1 just for the bloody sake of it. Why did he not play any four of Fred/McTominay/Bruno/Pogba/vdB in a diamond, play Telles with a lot of attacking instructions and Rashford with Cavani/Greenwood up top. If neither of Cavani/Greenwood were fit, let them have one half each then.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I said it earlier to someone else..it' the bigger picture I am looking at. Any other day a draw against Chelsea is fine, but we now need to get a win against Arsenal because 7/8 from 18 is going to have to bring serious questions about where we are going. For Ole to remain for me as a manager I need to see consistency, not have a purple patch and be poor again. Bad results happen, but that squad is better that what we have seen adn Ole is far to stuck with this 4-2-3-1 formation which is becoming far too predictable for other teams to play against.

I agreed we need consistency. I disagree with the formation bit - he has been quite successful with it until very recently.

Based on what we saw today I'd say we've seen an upturn in form past 3 games which suggests that the start was slow because of xyz reasons (late in europe/lack of preseason) and not a greater pattern of downfall some think. But yes agreed we need to improve now.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Everyone is a master of hindsight. The same formation led us to a winning run not very far back.

 

[NJM78]

They can. But they have to be realistic. They aren't right now where even a draw, where we are better against a top side, seem to be bad.

I'm getting old. For me football started when Hughes was our striker. MClair was fabelous and Pallister/Bruce were like great wall.

You sound my era, I'm 43 next birthday and have been supporting us since I could grasp the sport. I still believe whatever the age anyone saying James is clearly not good enough are right in my opinion.

Todays result wasn't good either in my opinion and the line up we picked was not positive and a team looking to win. It was negative and yeah we created more than Chelsea but they were here for a point and got it. Lampard clearly the happier manager.

 

[Viral United]

I've been very critical of Ole's insistence on 4-2-3-1 without having the players for it, or persisting wuth Pogba as CDM. Why does he persist with a formation he doesn't have players for? I was quiet after the PSG game because I was happy that he showed that he could switch it up tactically and utilize a formation that best suited the players at his disposal in their preferred positions (dropping Pogba), but come the weekend he reverts back to the 4-2-3-1 just for the bloody sake of it. Why did he not play any four of Fred/McTominay/Bruno/Pogba/vdB in a diamond, play Telles with a lot of attacking instructions and Rashford with Cavani/Greenwood up top. If neither of Cavani/Greenwood were fit, let them have one half each then.

I agree with you,
The only reason I think he didn't change formation is, Chelsea also want to play on Counter-attacking football and they are targeting our FB so Ole don't want to over committed on attack.
Why Greenwood not start? may be he will get start in remaining games or may be Ole was confidant with Mata, but honestly I don't know.
I really don't want to start Cavani today, let him ease in to team.

 

[MrSingh2002]

I'm at the point where I think he could have a great squad and still not make the right decisions with regards to squad rotation.

He hasn't got the excuse anymore that we only have 11 good or fit players. He's failing so far this season.

VdB, Telles, Tuanzebe and Cavani are his only hope at bettering last seasons 3rd place finish.

Playing Fred and McTominay 3 games in a row killed us. Matic, Pogba and VdB have been underused in the same period and it clearly showed today.

I want Ole to succeed but don't know if he's got what it takes to make ballsy decisions. I'm Ole out.

 

[Foxbatt]

Anyone but James would have done a better job. He has never worked out on left wing. Even Bailly there would have been better.

 

[Rightnr]

I would just like to ask all the super supporters at what point in the league would you consider removing him if we're in the bottom half? How much longer? Christmas?

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm at the point where I think he could have a great squad and still not make the right decisions with regards to squad rotation.

He hasn't got the excuse anymore that we only have 11 good or fit players. He's failing so far this season.

VdB, Telles, Tuanzebe and Cavani are his only hope at bettering last seasons 3rd place finish.

Playing Fred and McTominay 3 games in a row killed us. Matic, Pogba and VdB have been underused in the same period and it clearly showed today.

I want Ole to succeed but don't know if he's got what it takes to make ballsy decisions. I'm Ole out.

Welcome to the club! We’ll look after you. You’ll get a lot of your deluded comments and made to feel like a fake fan. But the truth is the truth. This guy hasn’t got it. Even with the best team in the league we’d finish comfortably nowhere near top.

 

[AC1689]

I would just like to ask all the super supporters at what point in the league would you consider removing him if we're in the bottom half? How much longer? Christmas?

Conference

 

[Eplel]

Ole is not helping it with these decisions.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Welcome to the club! We’ll look after you. You’ll get a lot of your deluded comments and made to feel like a fake fan. But the truth is the truth. This guy hasn’t got it. Even with the best team in the league we’d finish comfortably nowhere near top.

I created this thread a long time ago. I knew it then and I know it now. He needed to improve then but he's wasted his time doing the same things and expecting different results. That's insanity.

The lack of using the squad should ultimately cost him his position. He should know better as an ex Man United player and he should know better after over 2 years in charge.

 

[OrcaFat]

Last season 3rd.

This season two bad results, otherwise okay, despite being behind the curve on fitness and preparation. Liv and City not looking that clever. Prospects for 3rd or better perfectly decent.

Lot of folk want Ole out, campaigning fairly unpleasantly and sometimes rather ignorantly (don’t be insulted unless you think I could be talking about you) and yet here he is, still going, still sticking it to the feckers. Good lad.

 

[Rightnr]

Last season 3rd.

This season two bad results, otherwise okay, despite being behind the curve on fitness and preparation. Liv and City not looking that clever. Prospects for 3rd or better perfectly decent.

Lot of folk want Ole out, campaigning fairly unpleasantly and sometimes rather ignorantly (don’t be insulted unless you think I could be talking about you) and yet here he is, still going, still sticking it to the feckers. Good lad.

100% mate. Don't hold back, go full on delusional on these feckers.

I really wonder how some of you people go through a single day in your life without being scammed given how gullible you are.

 

[Reddevildans]

For him to start James was absolutely criminal. What merited his start? We could have easily had greenwood and van der beek in his position. Our home form will and has me worried. We're simply not cute enough to conjure chances against men behind the ball. We thrive on counter attacks. Until I see progression on the former then I'm afraid ole isnt the man.

My feeling is that he also doesnt trust our defence and how can you. So employing two DMs seems reasonable but they're just not good enough in the opposite half. Only one should be employed against the weaker teams. I think we should rotate pogba and bruno in the number 10 or left of midfield position. We have excellent choices in attack and well good enough to finish in the top 4 especially how the top teams are looking so far.

 

[Flytan]

I dunno what the feck James has done to earn a spot under ole but that lone fact should call for him still being sacked. It's like I go into games after seeing the lineup "hey if we can hold them even until our good players come on we might win". He doesn't start with the best lineup at all. I get the double pivot of Fred/McSauce over Pogba but I just don't see what Mata and James really ever bring.

 

[VP89]

Everyone is a master of hindsight. The same formation led us to a winning run not very far back.

Master of hindsight?! There were eyebrows raised when the lineup was released.

 

[OrcaFat]

For him to start James was absolutely criminal. What merited his start? We could have easily had greenwood and van der beek in his position. Our home form will and has me worried. We're simply not cute enough to conjure chances against men behind the ball. We thrive on counter attacks. Until I see progression on the former then I'm afraid ole isnt the man.

My feeling is that he also doesnt trust our defence and how can you. So employing two DMs seems reasonable but they're just not good enough in the opposite half. Only one should be employed against the weaker teams. I think we should rotate pogba and bruno in the number 10 or left of midfield position. We have excellent choices in attack and well good enough to finish in the top 4 especially how the top teams are looking so far.

Starting James wasn’t criminal. But it didn’t work. These selections you are asking for will happen. I assume James must train very well but it’s a while since he’s delivered much in matches. I would have been happier to see him go on loan but he may still prove useful. Bottom line is I don’t feel good when I see that he’s in the team.

 

[OrcaFat]

I dunno what the feck James has done to earn a spot under ole but that lone fact should call for him still being sacked. It's like I go into games after seeing the lineup "hey if we can hold them even until our good players come on we might win". He doesn't start with the best lineup at all. I get the double pivot of Fred/McSauce over Pogba but I just don't see what Mata and James really ever bring.

Mata did okay and has been in good form.

 

[Andycoleno9]

They can. But they have to be realistic. They aren't right now where even a draw, where we are better against a top side, seem to be bad.

I'm getting old. For me football started when Hughes was our striker. MClair was fabelous and Pallister/Bruce were like great wall.

But how then you can justify this shit. In your era (and mine) we were dominant side. Always. Our setup was to dominate teams and many players said that they would be scared already in tunnel. Today, despite we have pretty good team, opposition comes at OT without any fear and they attack us.
With Lvg and Mourinho, hell even Moyes, in first half we were (nearly) always team who put pressure on other team and that team wait to counter us. With Ole from minute one is "you have the ball and we will counter you".
This is something which is killing me. Not results. Results and trophies will come. Sooner or later. But our approach to game is not United way.

 

[Maluco]

I am usually pretty amicable in these debates and am perfectly happy to be proven wrong and learn something new.

But at this stage, in this game, with a year of woeful form, anyone not asking “why is Dan James starting?” ,when the lineup was released, has questionable judgement at best.

It’s fine to be Ole In, but defending every single thing he does is crazy and doesn’t help the argument.

It’s baffling that he would start him in a game like this and it’s a perfect example of why I still can’t trust that he is the right man 2 years in. He goes from brilliant to baffling in the blink of an eye. No consistency.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

I’m too much of a newbie to be able to create new posts but its clear that Ole’s home form over the last few months is dreadful. Is there a reason why I feel so confident when we go away to any ground in the PL or CL but a game at OT right now feels a long, hard slog, whoever the opponents? Maybe it’s no crowd related. Please don’t just say it’s the “system”. It’s deeper than that. Something isn’t right....

 

[Godfather]

Usually I am pretty amicable in these debates and am perfectly happy to be proven wrong and learn something new.

But at this stage, inthis game, with a year of woeful form, anyone not asking “why is Dan James starting?” when the lineup was released has questionable judgement at best.

It’s fine to be Ole In, but defending every single thing he does is crazy and doesn’t help the argument.

It’s baffling that he would start him in a game like this and it’s a perfect example of why I still can’t trust that he is the right man 2 years in. He goes from brilliant to baffling in the blink of an eye. No consistency.

It's crazy. In any team in the world you'd expect your winger to create at least ANYTHING. He does nothing. Absolutely nothing. Still starts.

 

[Halftrack]

100% mate. Don't hold back, go full on delusional on these feckers.

I really wonder how some of you people go through a single day in your life without being scammed given how gullible you are.

I wonder how you go through a day in your life without stroking out, given how much it offends you that some people want to keep Ole.

 

[Maluco]

It's crazy. In any team in the world you'd expect your winger to create at least ANYTHING. He does nothing. Absolutely nothing. Still starts.

Worse still, almost every single time he got the ball today, he made the worst possible decision, often deliberately dribbling in to two/three players. It’s not just that his quality is poor, his decision making is abysmal and we have seen it in so many games.

What was Ole expecting to see today?

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm confused as to what United and Chelsea are playing at this season. Huge chance to step up this season, and they're persisting with Ole and Lampard who to be honest won't ever really be more than top 4 competitors, regardless of players. The squads are there for both. The rest are inconsistent. Liverpool and City with big cracks this season. A manager like Pochettino just waiting... or at the very least, any halfway proven manager that would do more than Lampard and Ole.

Ole has done well enough, but he's a caretaker manager at best who is here until we wait for the right person/moment. Lampard for Chelsea is holding them back more than Ole IMO, as he's clueless tactically and either goes all out attack or defence with no balance. Ole at least can get really good performance in big games, but its just so strange to see 2 of the 4 biggest teams in England persisting with manager who arguably wouldn't get a single other job in the premier league if all were available.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Worse still, almost every single time he got the ball today, he made the worst possible decision, often deliberately dribbling in to two/three players. It’s not just that his quality is poor, his decision making is abysmal and we have seen it in so many games.

What was Ole expecting to see today?

It’s the clearest example of a player playing in a team a tier or even two too high for his ability. Are we really that short Going forward that in a huge PL game, we must start the lad? That is all on Ole.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm confused as to what United and Chelsea are playing at this season. Huge chance to step up this season, and they're persisting with Ole and Lampard who to be honest won't ever really be more than top 4 competitors, regardless of players. The squads are there for both. The rest are inconsistent. Liverpool and City with big cracks this season. A manager like Pochettino just waiting... or at the very least, any halfway proven manager that would do more than Lampard and Ole.

Ole has done well enough, but he's a caretaker manager at best who is here until we wait for the right person/moment. Lampard for Chelsea is holding them back more than Ole IMO, as he's clueless tactically and either goes all out attack or defence with no balance. Ole at least can get really good performance in big games, but its just so strange to see 2 of the 4 biggest teams in England persisting with manager who arguably wouldn't get a single other job in the premier league if all were available.

There doing a trading places experiment. I think Joe Glazer and Roman have bet eachother £2 to see who can last the Longest without the fans going full out. So far so good. I reckon Ole could last another 3 season with these same results with our fanbase.