Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Withnail said:
To me, it's just more strawman talk and it doesn't add anything to the discussion. There's enough actual nonsense around the place to complain about with delving into fantasies in my view.

But yes, I agree it is encouraging.
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Its not a strawman when people are doing it though.
 
I would have thought even the most passionate Ole outter would realize that he'll be staying at least till the end of the season, and should do.
We're looking for progress over last season, and I'll think we'll get that. Makes me frustrated that we didn't get sancho, cause I think we're not too far away from challenging for the title.
 
JG3001 said:
I think it’s because he’s been on two ridiculously good runs and two ridiculously bad runs in his tenure so far.

On talksport they were on about whether this squad was better than the one that beat PSG to give Ole the job, most agreed it was, however they said the biggest issue is no one still knows which United team are going to turn up from game to game.

I think people know my opinion by now but I’ll give him his dues yesterday, spot on tactics and took advantage of a team that left themselves open at the back, but it would be silly for many people to change their opinion from game to game. I’d like to see a consistent run again where we were beating teams for fun, like back when he was caretaker. Most games we play feel incredibly hard fought and on a knife edge from the word go. Nobody has a divine right to turn up and just win, but you’ve got to have that aura about you if you’re going to win the league.
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The first bad run after Ole got the job came out of nowhere, fair enough. But once the team clicked from Jan, I think it's unfair to say no one knows which United will turn up.

When we were putting teams to sword for fun after the lockdown, many fans on here did predict that with the schedule (we had cup runs as well) we'd soon burn out. I don't think most people were overly surprised when the first 11 gassed out. We also saw that when Ole looked to use the squad, those bench players disappointed, and he had to stick with the same players.

At the start of this season, with less of a break than others and no pre-season, it wasn't a surprise that we struggled badly. We only seem to be picking up now. Not refering to you specifically, but it's really silly when people try to dismiss us having no preparation as a "convenient excuse" - every semi-elite sport outfit is heavily dependent on extensive warm up and preparation to get up to speed. Much more when it's a team sport. One doesn't have to be overly smart to get that.
 
AltiUn said:
He's obviously miles better tactically than he's given credit for, he's out-thunk too many tactical savants for it to just be luck. I'm gonna suspend my optimism and pessimism because it always bites me on the arse whenever I declare it, I'll swear off knee-jerking either way. I was disappointed with the first few performances of this season, especially given my disappointment with missing out on our key transfer target, but we seem to be shaking the rust off now. I even predicted we'd be rusty and still let myself knee-jerk embarrassingly enough. I'm going to take it one game at a time from now on.

3-5-2 is the way forward for the time being, in my opinion, it gets the best out of our players while covering the weaknesses of others. I don't see a role for Matic for the time being, this system is going to heavily rely on a mobile midfield. Having 4 quality striking options in Rashford, Greenwood, Martial and Cavani lead me to believe he may have had this in mind for a while. What I found tonight was that we played well even when we weren't on the break, we had counter attacks but we weren't basing our entire gameplan on just hitting them on the counter, we were actively looking to control the game too with the high line, we controlled portions of the game to great effect and our defensive structure allowed us to soak up the pressure against some of the best attackers on the planet.

One thing is for certain, this team is a million times better than anything we've had for a long time in terms of personnel and squad depth, there's quality in pretty much every position and a healthy mix of experience and youth. Even if Solskjaer doesn't end up reaping the rewards of this we'll be feeling the positive effects of his tenure for a long time to come.
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Good post.
 
r3idy said:
Thought about this a lot last night. Hopefully this is a balanced opinion on Ole, feel free to agree, disagree.

Last night said a lot about Ole both as manager of people and also as a tactician. In the majority of big games I have no concerns with him or the coaching team. We always seem to be well drilled and create chances. Ok he is no Klopp spraying flemgh everywhere through his shiny white teeth, nor is he a Guardiola constantly waving his arms at the minutest mistake from the touchline. He has his own style and I am comfortable with that. What stood out last night was this was no defensive master class either. Containment football yes and that is the right thing to do against Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria. Park the bus no. Go back when we won over in Paris last time round and if we all take our red tinted spec's off we can all say it was a great night but the finest of margins saw us through right at the last kick. Last night we controlled large parts of the game and created chances not only from counter attack but also from build up play. There was eleven battles on the pitch last night and for a man, utd dominated those battles. When you are seeing Mbappe being pushed to the wings and Neymar picking the ball up in his own half, that's not luck, that's good preparation and more importantly progress. If Martial had his shooting boots on the score could have been more.

Also worth noting that he puts players in because he trusts them. Take Axel last night. No doubt one of the biggest games of his career. The snipers are out, the vultures are circling, every week a new crisis at Utd. He steps in and plays like has been there for the last 60 games. Revisionists will tell you Jose used to do the same thing. Jose would throw players in to make a public statement to the board i.e. McTomminay and then he would throw other players under the bus. You don't need to be a life coach or leading business manager to understand that you get better performance and results when everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction. Would you prefer how Ole is managing Greenwood for his misdemeanours or the way Jose is trying to publicly provoke Delle Ali into a reaction and performance.

My criticism of Ole, and this is an area where he needs to improve is get better at managing the troughs. When we go through a bad patch it quite often is a BAD patch and it takes a two or three game bounce to get it back on course. You got stuffed under Fergie, you got a reaction usually next game. Same with all leading coaches. He needs to minimise the pick up time between losses and bad performances. That can only come from consistency of performance on the pitch.

Lets make no bones about it, Utd have a Lot of catching up to Liverpool and City. Whether Ole is the right man to do that, only the fullness of time will tell us but if he gets the bullet today tomorrow or in five years but I dare say the club purely from a footballing perspective will be in a much stronger position than when Jose, LVG, Moyes were shown the door. I am not going to get carried away with last nights result. Great team performance all things considered. Nor am I a too concerned about the spurs result in the bigger context of this season.
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Excellent post
 
Mihai said:
It depends on the impact Cavani will have. But there will be less pressure from benching Martial than Pogba or Maguire.
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I will be glad to be proven wrong but I struggle to see Cavani doing a Zlatan rather than a Falcao. The only players that age well are ones who never had pace to start with. Fast twitch muscle is pretty much on its way out of your body after 30. Throw in injuries and the toughest league in the world and you can't really expect much except shirt sales.
 
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This is a pretty ridiculous thread now tbh - its disappointing that the poll is still open. I think he's quite capable and we are in good hands. Sure there are problems, but those aren't entirely managerial. I would love for this thread to be closed (just my thoughts)
 
sammsky1 said:
Maybe it’s the team players who are inconsistent for a variety of reasons and we are building up to something great?

also how is 4 losses from 32 games inconsistent?

Id really like your opinion on these two points.
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Because the whole season count. You can not pick only the last 32 games and ignore the first 30. You can not ignore the fact we had relegation form and bad result in the first 2 months of the league and then another 4 underwhelming months before februari. The standard should be fighting for the title (JM's second place does not count because he did not fight for the league he was 20 pts behind the title winners). This is Ole's third season and he has no excuse for not challenging for the title.
 
Giggsyking said:
Because the whole season count. You can not pick only the last 32 games and ignore the first 30. You can not ignore the fact we had relegation form and bad result in the first 2 months of the league and then another 4 underwhelming months before februari. This is Ole's third season and he has no excuse for not challenging for the title.
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So Ole was shit with a shit team, and very good with a decent team. I'll take it. Getting good results with the likes of Lingard and Pereira in the starting XI is not the job of a United manager. I don't think anyone bar Fergie would be able to achieve much with that team.

These are our stats since Bruno arrived: 20 wins, 5 draws, 4 losses. That is actually great.


Giggsyking said:
This is Ole's third season and he has no excuse for not challenging for the title.
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Let's look past Liverpool's recent results and not give completely into recency bias. When you look at our current team, do you see a team that is so good that not challenging for the title should be considered a sackable offense? And if so, how many points would be considered a title challenge to you?
 
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Giggsyking said:
Because the whole season count. You can not pick only the last 32 games and ignore the first 30. You can not ignore the fact we had relegation form and bad result in the first 2 months of the league and then another 4 underwhelming months before februari. The standard should be fighting for the title (JM's second place does not count because he did not fight for the league he was 20 pts behind the title winners). This is Ole's third season and he has no excuse for not challenging for the title.
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Im puzzled. If the whole season counts. How can this be Ole’s third season?
And. Wow! You actually think this way.
 
Listar said:
It is not about the 120m attacker. It is that we didn't sign the answers.

Telles and Cavani is not going to win us the league. If we do it is all on Ole.

Wait are you Woodward in disguise? :confused: I am shock to see someone here actually think we did alright in the transfer window.
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I don't like Woodward at all but people have been overreacting to our window just because Sancho didn't happen. I bet you If we had only signed Sancho this summer with no one else people would have said it's a great window but since it didn't happen people overreacted. It's not a great window but definitely a decent one and 3 good players bought and will all be useful this season. Cavani will surprise many here.
 
r3idy said:
Thought about this a lot last night. Hopefully this is a balanced opinion on Ole, feel free to agree, disagree.

Last night said a lot about Ole both as manager of people and also as a tactician. In the majority of big games I have no concerns with him or the coaching team. We always seem to be well drilled and create chances. Ok he is no Klopp spraying flemgh everywhere through his shiny white teeth, nor is he a Guardiola constantly waving his arms at the minutest mistake from the touchline. He has his own style and I am comfortable with that. What stood out last night was this was no defensive master class either. Containment football yes and that is the right thing to do against Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria. Park the bus no. Go back when we won over in Paris last time round and if we all take our red tinted spec's off we can all say it was a great night but the finest of margins saw us through right at the last kick. Last night we controlled large parts of the game and created chances not only from counter attack but also from build up play. There was eleven battles on the pitch last night and for a man, utd dominated those battles. When you are seeing Mbappe being pushed to the wings and Neymar picking the ball up in his own half, that's not luck, that's good preparation and more importantly progress. If Martial had his shooting boots on the score could have been more.

Also worth noting that he puts players in because he trusts them. Take Axel last night. No doubt one of the biggest games of his career. The snipers are out, the vultures are circling, every week a new crisis at Utd. He steps in and plays like has been there for the last 60 games. Revisionists will tell you Jose used to do the same thing. Jose would throw players in to make a public statement to the board i.e. McTomminay and then he would throw other players under the bus. You don't need to be a life coach or leading business manager to understand that you get better performance and results when everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction. Would you prefer how Ole is managing Greenwood for his misdemeanours or the way Jose is trying to publicly provoke Delle Ali into a reaction and performance.

My criticism of Ole, and this is an area where he needs to improve is get better at managing the troughs. When we go through a bad patch it quite often is a BAD patch and it takes a two or three game bounce to get it back on course. You got stuffed under Fergie, you got a reaction usually next game. Same with all leading coaches. He needs to minimise the pick up time between losses and bad performances. That can only come from consistency of performance on the pitch.

Lets make no bones about it, Utd have a Lot of catching up to Liverpool and City. Whether Ole is the right man to do that, only the fullness of time will tell us but if he gets the bullet today tomorrow or in five years but I dare say the club purely from a footballing perspective will be in a much stronger position than when Jose, LVG, Moyes were shown the door. I am not going to get carried away with last nights result. Great team performance all things considered. Nor am I a too concerned about the spurs result in the bigger context of this season.
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Quality post
 
Giggsyking said:
Because the whole season count. You can not pick only the last 32 games and ignore the first 30. You can not ignore the fact we had relegation form and bad result in the first 2 months of the league and then another 4 underwhelming months before februari. The standard should be fighting for the title (JM's second place does not count because he did not fight for the league he was 20 pts behind the title winners). This is Ole's third season and he has no excuse for not challenging for the title.
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Do you think that...
3rd in the Premier League
Semi in Europa League
Semi in the FA Cup
Semi in the League Cup

... last season is progress? Is it good or bad season according to you?

Do you think we can challenge Liverpool and ManCIty for the trophy? No should, but could?

Two simple questions.
 
90 + 5min said:
Do you think that...
3rd in the Premier League
Semi in Europa League
Semi in the FA Cup
Semi in the League Cup

... last season is progress? Is it good or bad season according to you?

Do you think we can challenge Liverpool and ManCIty for the trophy? No should, but could?

Two simple questions.
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It’s not progress. But it’s an okay season. I mean the year before was a bad season and if we neither kept that same form we had the season just gone. We would have made top 4.

I do think we can challenged City and Liverpool this season. Will we will depend on what form we continue with.

But are we going to credit the board for giving us a decent squad to compete with this season? Didn’t think so.
 
Mainoldo said:
It’s not progress. But it’s an okay season. I mean the year before was a bad season and if we neither kept that same form we had the season just gone. We would have made top 4.

I do think we can challenged City and Liverpool this season. Will we will depend on what form we continue with.

But are we going to credit the board for giving us a decent squad to compete with this season? Didn’t think so.
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Are you still yapping?

give it a rest for a few weeks :lol:
 
Mainoldo said:
It’s not progress. But it’s an okay season. I mean the year before was a bad season and if we neither kept that same form we had the season just gone. We would have made top 4.

I do think we can challenged City and Liverpool this season. Will we will depend on what form we continue with.

But are we going to credit the board for giving us a decent squad to compete with this season? Didn’t think so.
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So going from bad season (according to you) to last season is not making progress (according to you). It just don't made any sense. Not for me that is.

I'm not expecting challenge this year but next year. Solskjaer needs time and we can see that time is helping him and the squad. Better for every day. If we manage to challenge for Premier Legaue this year there should be lot of apologies in here. From all those who mocked him and those who believed in him.

Give him time. I've said it so many times since he took over. You give clever managers time and they will challenge for trophies in few years.
 
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OleBoiii said:
So Ole was shit with a shit team, and very good with a decent team. I'll take it. Getting good results with the likes of Lingard and Pereira in the starting XI is not the job of a United manager. I don't think anyone bar Fergie would be able to achieve much with that team.

These are our stats since Bruno arrived: 20 wins, 5 draws, 4 losses. That is actually great.




Let's look past Liverpool's recent results and not give completely into recency bias. When you look at our current team, do you see a team that is so good that not challenging for the title should be considered a sackable offense? And if so, how many points would be considered a title challenge to you?
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So you think he can challenge now or not? No manager who won the league in the past 10 years has been backed by his board like Ole (except for Man city managers). At some point the bar should be challenging for the title and stop hiding behind the (the squad is not good enough) excuse.
 
FatherWolff said:
Im puzzled. If the whole season counts. How can this be Ole’s third season?
And. Wow! You actually think this way.
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If it makes you feel better it is his second full season after spending 260m, at what point is he going to be asked to deliver trophies?
 
90 + 5min said:
Do you think that...
3rd in the Premier League
Semi in Europa League
Semi in the FA Cup
Semi in the League Cup

... last season is progress? Is it good or bad season according to you?

Do you think we can challenge Liverpool and ManCIty for the trophy? No should, but could?

Two simple questions.
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I think the progress is very difficult to be measured, but if we measure it according to performance and titles, we certainly play a better football than JM football but not good enough to be up there with Liverpool and City. We did not win any major and minor trophy. In total it is an underwhelming season the only good thing is finishing 3rd with a historically low points count for a team finishing 3rd. For me it was not a bad season, but not a good one either.
 
sammsky1 said:
Yeah he does.
And I’m going to make those valid excuses as loudly as I can every time I see you moan.
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The excuses should be valid. There are example of managers spend much much less than him and challenging for major trophies in their 2nd or 3rd seasons. When do you think he should be held accountable? he has spent more than 260m on players now.
 
Giggsyking said:
The excuses should be valid. There are example of managers spend much much less than him and challenging for major trophies in their 2nd or 3rd seasons. When do you think he should be held accountable? he has spent more than 260m on players now.
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OGS took over a club in complete disarray - at a time when the P.L experienced two of the best clubs ever. No other manager has been anywhere close to challenge these clubs. In order to beat these sides, OGS would in no time reach a level Ferguson struggled to reach.

It's a question of being realistic. We are not there yet - but we are building a foundation that will take us there. If OGS is good enough, who knows ? But he will have made the job easier for whoever takes over from him when that day comes
 
Giggsyking said:
The excuses should be valid. There are example of managers spend much much less than him and challenging for major trophies in their 2nd or 3rd seasons. When do you think he should be held accountable? he has spent more than 260m on players now.
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How has he failed according to your accountability? Should he have come 2nd or won the PL last season? Is that your expectation?
Or should he be expected to win the league this season?
Also who are these manager you talk of?

it’s so easy to make statements like yours but they need to be quantified. Then we judge Just how realistic they are, what the context is, and what are the mitigating circumstances.

Regardless Ole is our manager and will remain so til at least next summer. Now we have the fitness situation under control the quality of squad will show and there won’t be many more freak results.

So every grievance you have doesn’t matter. You guys had your shot at getting OleOUT, created enough noise for the media to bite after a erratic start to the season, but Ole beat you.
This conversation is on ice.
 
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sammsky1 said:
Are you still yapping?

give it a rest for a few weeks :lol:
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:lol: All he is obsessed with is Ole out, blaming Ole. He doesn’t know what progress is and he had no idea what the mess Ole were left with from the previous manager and it‘s not instance to fix it.
 
Giggsyking said:
I think the progress is very difficult to be measured, but if we measure it according to performance and titles, we certainly play a better football than JM football but not good enough to be up there with Liverpool and City. We did not win any major and minor trophy. In total it is an underwhelming season the only good thing is finishing 3rd with a historically low points count for a team finishing 3rd. For me it was not a bad season, but not a good one either.
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The progress is very easy to measure. Finished 6th in 2018/2019, finished 3rd in 2019/2020(don't care about points tally when we were ahead of 17 teams). And now we have a better squad overall than previous years
 
I love how the Ole outers think of 'money spent' and 'time given' as such perfect variables for making a decision on whether a manager needs to be sacked or not. I also love how the arguments for sacking him keeps changing. First it was lack of results. When we started winning, it was lack of tactical nous for single games. When it became apparent that he can outperform even the best managers in this aspect, the focus shifted to 'net spend' and 'time'.

If Manager X inherits a team that is only 1 or 2 signings away from being the best team in the league and he gets the resources to do this, then he will obviously need to show his worth more quickly than someone who inherits a team that is at least 5 signings away from achieving the same and only gets about half of that.

Practically everyone, neutral or otherwise, said that United needed to sign the following this summer: RW, DM, CB. Some people wanted a center forward, some people only thought we needed one out a DM and CB, but the general consensus was that we needed about 3 players for the starting XI. We got none. Zero. Nada. But because the magical arbitrary line is 2(or 3?) years, Ole apparently has to challenge for the title this year or expect to be sacked.

I'm curious: what if we literally spent no money this summer? Would the demands still be the same? Or are the bench options of VDB, Telles and Cavani the difference between scraping top 4 and breathing Liverpool/City down the neck until May?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I know. We whall see what will happen. But as i said; when we played for months like shit in 4231 formation with Lingard out of form on no10, Pereira on rw etc...people excused Ole with "he doesn't have better option for that position". My point always about any manager is that it is not excuse and that his job is to use the best what he has.
If we played in 4231 yesterday with lets say Ighalo on no9 and James on rw and lost, people would blame Ed because he didn't bought Sancho and Kane.

Formation rotation was something which delighted me yesterday. Because that manager must do
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I think there are a few issues with United.

Firstly, there is Ole and his squad. Like all new managers, he's inherited a group of players. Some he's happy with and some he wants to discard and other he will live with and try to mould simply because he can't get can't get rid of lots of players in one go for obvious reasons. He has to live with whatever the club buys for him whether the new player is he's first choice or his fifth choice.

Secondly, something is going on in the boardroom. It could be because they still view Ole a suprise manager who was original hired as a make-shift until they could get a top manager. Thus they are being very cautious with Ole's request for certain new players because they don't want to waste millions only for them to sack the manager a few months down the line. Then there's the owners, the Glazers. Vampires who are sucking the life-blood of the club for their own greed and are the real one's controlling the purse-strings. And finally, there is the club. Manchester United. One of the richest clubs in the world who other clubs look at with envious, greedy eyes whenever United become interested in their player. After years of being exploited by clubs and players' representives for millions, I think the club might be making a stand here. There going for young, very talented players with potential but not yet with reputations that will cost a lot less and let them develop over the next few years.
 
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Giggsyking said:
If it makes you feel better it is his second full season after spending 260m, at what point is he going to be asked to deliver trophies?
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Im not the one not feeling ok. Yes, four games in to his second season. Difficult question! We still have a squad made by three different managers.
If I want to dream, we might even challenge this year, because how crazy football has been. Realistically? Two or three years.
But your take is. It’s Oles third season. You don’t look at the players we are missing, but 260mill spent. And we should be challenging for titles?
Third place was not progress, but a failure?
 
Giggsyking said:
If it makes you feel better it is his second full season after spending 260m, at what point is he going to be asked to deliver trophies?
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I like to use Klopp's Liverpool as the blueprint for progress and success because Liverpool have been on a constant upward trajectory since he came. In Klopp's second full season he had spent 252m. He didnt win a trophy but he got 4th and a champions league final.

We have spent 260m in Oles second season, it should be less when you consider we had to overpay for Maguire out of desperation. Anything can happen but I'm sure nobody is expecting us to reach a champions league final this season like Klopp did but id say a similar achievement would be top 4 and a league cup trophy or at least 3rd position closing the gap in points with 1st position
 
Still not convinced at all by Ole, we are too inconsistent with our play and it has been almost 2 years now since he was appointed. Last year we came 3rd with a low 66 points with chelsea having a transfer ban and arsenal/spurs changing managers. This year all teams are much more stable and this season should be the mark if he stays or be sacked/goes. Both Ole 'out'and 'in' have valid arguments and due to the toxity that there is atm every win or loss will be ''i told you so''. As I said this season should be proper evaluation, no excuses now imo, if we do not progress he has to go and if we progress then he stays. In my humble opinion, I cannot see us winning anythign big with him as I do not think he is good enough, obviously I might be wrong, time will tell.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I like to use Klopp's Liverpool as the blueprint for progress and success because Liverpool have been on a constant upward trajectory since he came. In Klopp's second full season he had spent 252m. He didnt win a trophy but he got 4th and a champions league final.

We have spent 260m in Oles second season, it should be less when you consider we had to overpay for Maguire out of desperation. Anything can happen but I'm sure nobody is expecting us to reach a champions league final this season like Klopp did but id say a similar achievement would be top 4 and a league cup trophy or at least 3rd position closing the gap in points with 1st position
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You do know we have pool supports on here that could also point out if we are going down the road of the highlighted bit, their net spent 16/17 = minus £6,460,000, 17/18 net spend = minus £28,000,000, so they actually didn't give him money those first 2 full seasons just allowed the hobo to spend what they made from sales.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/liverpool/english-football-teams/liverpool-transfers
 
3rd place + 3 semis last season was progress from the season before. Progress this season would be to win a trophy (even just the League Cup) + a more comfortable top 4 with more points on the board. Next season it's time for a credible title challenge. Only time will tell how things develop, but as long as there's steady progress (albeit slow) sacking would be massively stupid.

It takes time to build a team, and it takes time for a manager build authority. Constantly chopping and changing managers means nobody gets to build any authority, and takes away one (of many) reasons to perform; impressing the manager. It can't be a healthy environment at the very top of competitiveness when players know they can slack because it's the manager who gets the sack.

Overall, things have been going well so far, and there's no reason to abandon this project now. Sure there are still things one would like to see: more consistency (playing wise), more clear patterns of play coming to fruition, more dominating displays against weaker teams, a bit more proactive changes at times, and so on. But the overall trajectory is good.
 
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