Grow Up.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Grow Up.
I feel for Ole, I really do.
The whole notion he's out of his depth and is a crap coach theory people hold against him.
It's nearly two years in the job, as incompetent as our board are they wouldn't allow an imposter to manage/coach Manchester United for two whole years if he was that out of his depth.
Thats like saying Billy 19 of the deli counter has been ungraded to Tesco store manager and has fluked it for two years with zero respect of the staff. Billy wouldn't have got near the job in the first place.
Ole's route into the job wasn't the prettiest but its a joke to suggest a top club would give someone a job if he didnt know what he was doing.
You don't see the same disrespect for Lampard and he's achieved nothing of note.
Ole ticked his box last season, he got third. Starts a new season badly granted but you don't sack a manager after two defeats, especially when he's just signed new players.
This season it's a repeat of top 4 and possibly a trophy of any kind. If he doesn't achieve that then fair enough he goes but let him have more respect then he's getting. He's not exactly had the support of the board either, Cavani on the last day wasn't ever his first choice as wasn't Ighalo.
He's also having to work with a squad of over paid clowns which the former manager left behind. Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba the list goes on.
If he has a, bad run and it's clear the seasons heading for disaster then we look at it but as far as I'm concerned he's got till the summer and we judge then. Nothing to do with his legend statues either, that remains intact no matter what.
The whole notion he's out of his depth and is a crap coach theory people hold against him.
It's nearly two years in the job, as incompetent as our board are they wouldn't allow an imposter to manage/coach Manchester United for two whole years if he was that out of his depth.
Thats like saying Billy 19 of the deli counter has been ungraded to Tesco store manager and has fluked it for two years with zero respect of the staff. Billy wouldn't have got near the job in the first place.
Ole's route into the job wasn't the prettiest but its a joke to suggest a top club would give someone a job if he didnt know what he was doing.
You don't see the same disrespect for Lampard and he's achieved nothing of note.
Ole ticked his box last season, he got third. Starts a new season badly granted but you don't sack a manager after two defeats, especially when he's just signed new players.
This season it's a repeat of top 4 and possibly a trophy of any kind. If he doesn't achieve that then fair enough he goes but let him have more respect then he's getting. He's not exactly had the support of the board either, Cavani on the last day wasn't ever his first choice as wasn't Ighalo.
He's also having to work with a squad of over paid clowns which the former manager left behind. Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba the list goes on.
If he has a, bad run and it's clear the seasons heading for disaster then we look at it but as far as I'm concerned he's got till the summer and we judge then. Nothing to do with his legend statues either, that remains intact no matter what.
Focusing on the bottom line is just too simplistic, and probably part of the reason we've been going nowhere for seven years. The club has no idea how to judge a manager's work other than look at where he finishes and/or whether he got us Champions League football.
Mourinho finished second, but I think many people realised - correctly - that it would be as far as he goes because they looked at the team, at the style of football, at individual performances, and knew his work is lacking. This is also what should be judged if you seriously want to analyze a manager's work and decide whether he can actually take you further.
Solskjaer's one redeeming feature isn't where he finished. It's a the football we played for a while in the second half of the season, particularly after the break, whether it got us 3rd or 5th. But obviously, he has to kick on from that.
Well anyone advocating Ole signing a new deal right now isn't interested in a serious discussion, imo.
If wanting what's best for the club is strange, i'll take that as a compliment, cheers
Just like people on the opposite side, you are taking this to extreme.
He's not a crap coach, he's not an imposter. He's a decent manager, like many other decent managers around, who would never get anywhere near the United job because decent just isn't enough.
What is best for the club is a top Manager and coaches and of course better players all round. We have only some players and none of the rest.
Nothing will change if Ole is sacked. The same conversation will be going on about someone else in about 2-3 years time.
Well why give a new contract now when you can wait and see how the season pans out first. Ole isnt looking to leave and is still under contract. We did that with Jose when there was no need and look how that turned out. We also do it with players who are injury prone when they have managed to stay fit for 4-5 games on the trot.
We've been in this situation before where we've had bad results, tough games coming up, people were thinking they'll be the end of Solskjaer, and then we get some good wins.
It could easily happen again, because we - and his coaching - are nowhere near as bad as they've looked in the first three games. We're bound to improve.
Unfortunately, this improvement will make us better, but not as good as we should be. Which would lead to another bad period, more musings of Solskjaer's imminent demise, followed by good results. Rinse, repeat.
The only way he gets sacked mid season is if we continue the form of the last three league games, or something similar to that, which is unlikely.
I don't know how much it would cost the club to pay Ole off at the end of the season if we offered him a new contract now but it would be worth it if got the press off his and the players backs now, so they could concentrate on getting United moving in the right direction again.
Mourinho is a snake, he should never have been at the club in the first place, he got all the players he wanted in his first season, then got his agent to spread rumours that numerous clubs were after him, basically forcing the club to give him a new contract then he knew he could take the piss, asking for players he knew the club wouldn't sign so he could throw his toys out of the pram, go back to his hotel room and wait for the club to sack him with the bumper pay-off.
I don't see anyone asking us to win the title. On the other hand people treating last season as it was very good with 66 points and trophyless because we got 3rd with this points tally need to have a hard look in the mirror and review their expectations about United to be honest. The positives from last season was the run post Bruno signing and that we showed we can play well in several games, but as a individual season overall it was average.
What? Get a hold of yourself, kid.
Feck me you'd have thought i'd suggested Red Rum was deffo gonna win next years Grand National.
Kid!? I'm 57½, exactly!
In that case, happy half birthday
Got it wrong, i'm as near to 57¾ as 57½, Adrian Mole over and out!
Minimum 2 more months, to see enough how he manage the squad with the recent 4 recruits... and the current players, who knows he's making changes.. as little hope as that is.
Then we see if we should keep or sack him.
Then we see if we should keep or sack him.
I read and hear it every day, it does my head in to be fair. People are too convinced he's not up to the job.
Personally I think it's hard to be up to any job until you have the correct team in place, he's still well short of having his team in place. The bigger question for me would be will he ever make it to getting that team in place.
Sir Alex won that FA Cup but football allowed more patience then, that being said he was going if he didn't win it. I'd say Ole is at that stage now but with the added baggage top 4 is an essential as well.
Thats a bloody difficult job when your juggling the likes of Lingard, James, Ighalo and an aged Mata round as your attacking cover. Hopefully Cavani and the new kids offer better options.
The key for me though is breaking up that midfield and going back to a back five until we get a new centre back.
Let's avoid the comparisons to Sir Alex. He was a one off, and so was his story of difficult years followed by decades of success.
As for Solskjaer, I don't know why the idea he's not a great manager does your head in. Believing Solskjaer is a great manager is, for me, like believing in god - blind faith not based on something you actually see.
Sure, a manager would love to have the team 100% his and perfect, but few get that opportunity. More so, you need to earn the time to make it 100% your own.
For me he was fine as interim coach at the time, but I was very disappointed he got the job permanently and I've seen nothing since to convince me he's the right calibre for the job. He has positive ideas, he's made some good changes, but also made plenty of bad decisions - ones that could affect us for years.
I’m still not convinced OGS is the guy to take us forward and I am convinced that the 3rd place finish is his peak here. After that it’s downhill.
OGS is by no means a managerial novice as some fans like to put forward as a defence. He’s been in senior football management for the best part of a decade now. Has anyone ever contemplated that if OGS is so good as a manager then why has he been in Norway all that time and only last 9 months in Cardiff in the middle of that time?
And like any job in the world, if you don’t reach your set objectives you’re let go, if you fall below an ongoing KPI you’re let go. If you run a car showroom and set a salesman 20 sales for a given month and they only make 8 sales, you don’t give them 2 years to get it right do you? You either let them go or keep an eye on them short-term to see if they improve, and if they don’t they’re let go.
OGS is by no means a managerial novice as some fans like to put forward as a defence. He’s been in senior football management for the best part of a decade now. Has anyone ever contemplated that if OGS is so good as a manager then why has he been in Norway all that time and only last 9 months in Cardiff in the middle of that time?
And like any job in the world, if you don’t reach your set objectives you’re let go, if you fall below an ongoing KPI you’re let go. If you run a car showroom and set a salesman 20 sales for a given month and they only make 8 sales, you don’t give them 2 years to get it right do you? You either let them go or keep an eye on them short-term to see if they improve, and if they don’t they’re let go.
And my point at the beginning of this conversation was precisely that the points tally would have been significantly larger than 66 had Bruno and Ighalo played the whole season instead of just half of it, so...
It's not just the bottom line though, as you yourself say. We were more or less the best team in the league in terms of performances after the January window ended (February, March, June and July). That was only a few months ago and what's happened since is not signing a CB and CDM plus not having a proper preseason. Yet the Ole out agenda started right after the Palace game.
The bottom line is just the bottom line and a quick way of making the point. No manager in the post SAF retirement era has been sacked after getting top four and neither should Ole.
Yes, teams behind us are better this season but I don't think any manager in the world can get consistent performances out of a team without a proper preseason.
Ighalo? He can’t even get on the bench. We have Bruno now and have 3 points from 9. So I don’t believe you.
You're underestimating the importance of a preseason.
If you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
When and where have I said he was a great manager/coach. What I said was you don't do two years at a club of the size of Manchester United if you aren't a good coach, you'd be found out within the first few weeks.
And I wasn't comparing him with Sir Alex either, I was making a point that a managers squad can't be built overnight but this season is a season where Ole needs to deliver something.
If you read back you will find all I said was you can't sack a manager for losing two football matches, Ole deserves the season to see if he can achieve his expected league and Cup targets. I also said if things take a seriously bad turn then yes we may need to look at it but given he's been let down by Woodward and Co again I suspect we will never see him with a team he would fully call his own.
I'm in the camp or support a manager until there isn't a case for defending them anymore. Moyes should have gone before Christmas, totally lost the supporters and should have been held accountable for removing a top class coaching team and replacing them with midtable inferior coaches. Louis Van Gaal, in my opinion went out on a high, he was the end of his managerial career and it was good for him to leave with a trophy. Mourinho had lost his head, the usual kicking off with the board and the FA. He more than deserved the sack.
What's Ole done wrong really?
He's having to clear the decks of past managers bad buys, he's developing several youth players and he's hit his target for last season.
I'd say if it wasn't for Covid he'd have his key targets now as well.
So you don't think having Fernandes plus cover for Martial during his injury last season from the start would have made a significant difference?
Fernandes and Ighalo came in in January and after that performances plus results improved greatly. But you're saying that if they had come in during the summer it wouldn't have turned a single defeat into a draw or a single draw into a win during the first half of the season?
Fernandes is out of form now btw and Ighalo was never a long term signing.
No. We have them all now and we play exactly how we played without them. It’s not a coincidence. It’s the same way I can predict by January Spurs will be playing exactly how we played under Mourinho.
Fernandez has been our of form since the restart(lockdown one). Our players are always out of form. Why?
Include the utter dross in the Europa League and the league games that wrapped up the season and the poor, boring, zombie football has been going on for a while. The last 3 games is what was in the post all summer.
It doesn't seem a CDM was on Solskjaer's agena, so who's fault is that?
The idea that top four is what should determine whether a United manager stays or not shows how far we have fallen, and how much we are lacking in depth of knowledge and thought.
I don't think he should be sacked right now, but I do believe we should be preparing to replace him - at the end of the season at the latest.
Of course you don't sack a manager for losing two matches. Also, you don't necessarily keep a manager for finishing third. A more in depth analysis of his performance and chances of improving is required.
What are those league and cup targets for this season? Are they the only thing that matters?
Oh, I'm sure he is a good coach. There are tons of those, none of them should be around United.
I think he has done enough since he arrived to be afforded a bit more time. Squad is most definitely better now than it was when he arrived (Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini, Young all gone) and we did finish third in his first full season.
However if by Christmas we are not on course for 80 points then I wouldn't have a problem with him being sacked. His blind faith in picking the same 11 (especially the same midfield) game in and game out is really starting to piss me off.
However if by Christmas we are not on course for 80 points then I wouldn't have a problem with him being sacked. His blind faith in picking the same 11 (especially the same midfield) game in and game out is really starting to piss me off.
I say back him and hire DOF. He did well so far with that squad and board. We have 5th position material for this season so if we finish 6th sack him anything above 5th and build him a stature.
Sack him now will be like a cycle of what happened to LVG & Mourinho isn’t it. Although sacking Mourinho was necessary since he lost the dressing room. Ole deserves his chances to turn things around after finished us in 3rd place last season and there are plenty of times to turn things around and finish in top 4 again. If the expectation was to challenge for trophies then forget it since we didn’t sign his primary targets or even sign alternative for his primary targets.
Fans haven’t been happy with Woodward for years when we aren’t doing well, few wins and it gets forgotten same as Green and Gold until club is sold. Fans might be unhappy but they’ll turn up and buy their season tickets that’s what Woodward and Glazers really care about.
If things keep going badly and Ole gets sacked, he won’t be a martyr, everyone will just move on especially if results get better. No one in media would bat an eyelid if we sack Ole and bring in Poch, on paper it’s an upgrade might not work out that way or be fair but it’d be understandable.
The owners have had ample opportunity since SAF to change how club has run and still it’s same old cycle, not going to hold breath for that to change.
That’s true. But I feel abit different. The majority of the fans don’t actually hate how the board is run. They just hate we don’t get our favourite transfers.
I mean what do you honestly hate about the board?
The hate is about the way they portray we can sign anyone but then dont sign the players the managers want. All the hate would mostly disappear if they just did that. Even if its not the first choice signing.
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