Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[sdb4884]

Now is the time to move him on and get Poch. We won't though and likely be in a similiar or worse position next season.

 

[Zlaatan]

I like your enthusiasm and loyalty, but to stake that we win the game 9/10 is absurd, and papering over cracks
I am inplay bettor and the only team that were ever 9/10 to win were seville near the end.

Even leading one nil we were nowhere near 9/10.

.

There was nothing enthusiastic or loyal about my post and 9/10 isn't a reference to odds, so somehow you managed to misunderstand everything I said.

My point was if we replay this game ten times we win nine of them because we had a ton of grade A chances and didn't score from any of them, while Sevilla scored from two crosses that our defence somehow couldn't be bothered with and that was pretty much all they had. The only thing that's absurd is when your team creates enough chances to score five goals in a game and is let down by poor finishing and then make a couple of terrible individual mistakes defensively and you blame your manager for the loss. The guy can't pause the game and micro manage a shot or a defensive cross, and just because we lost doesn't automatically mean the manager got it wrong. It's a bit like blaming Wenger for Arsenal's loss against us at the Emirates in 2017 when De Gea went in to god mode, it just makes no sense.

Blame Ole for the loss against Chelsea in the cup and I'm right there with you, it was terrible coaching right from the line up to the in game decisions, but the loss yesterday was definitely not on him.

 

[padzilla]

Ole has done enough for me this season, but just about. If it's the same story next season, just scraping into a CL place and abject performances in key games then I can't see how we can justify keeping going. There needs to be tangible progress year on year.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You can give credit to Klopp on how he has got them playing but he too had to spend money to get his team how he wants it.

Klopp's net spend is something like £60m since he took over, and he inherited a worse squad than Ole did.

Why do people continue to compare the two? One is one of the best managers of his generation, the other is.. Ole.

 

[Andycoleno9]

You are totally correct.
Sadly being honest about OGS is something the OleOut mafia find very difficult to do.

Your nearly every post is based on personal attacks. Didn't you said that you will take a break from this thread? Even hard core cultist like you need a break.

 

[anant]

People on here really need to look beyond results, and focus on the performances during the time we are in transition. It was a really promising performance yesterday and we were pretty much comfortable throughout the game. The number of chances we created was great to see, especially against a side as good as them. There definitely are a lot more positives in yesterday's game than negatives.
The team is pretty young, and is only growing and getting better so cut them some slack for their finishing. And as far as Ole is concerned, the manager can't do much more when it's simply one of those days.

 

[romufc]

Klopp's net spend is something like £60m since he took over, and he inherited a worse squad than Ole did.

Why do people continue to compare the two? One is one of the best managers of his generation, the other is.. Ole.

His net spend is actually around the £100m mark.

He inherited a worse squad and took him 3 seasons to build it.

Ole has been given one season.

So does net spend mean he didnt spend money? They got £140m for Coutinho which Barca got robbed.

Ole net spend is £100m and he finished 3rd with 3 semi finals. What did Klopp achieve in his first season?

 

[anant]

Klopp's net spend is something like £60m since he took over, and he inherited a worse squad than Ole did.

Why do people continue to compare the two? One is one of the best managers of his generation, the other is.. Ole.

Not comparing the two, but the net spend comparison is not the best comparison. If you have maintained a decent wage structure, you're going to get good value on transfers - they managed to sell some really shit players for 20m or so. Thanks to the wages we're giving, none of Lingard, AP, Jones, etc. would go for that amount and they are much better players than the dross Klopp sold

 

[Tom Cato]

I think it’s that we are papering over the cracks, the league campaign wasn’t strong given the competition

The competition? You mean the entire league competing on equal terms? That competition? What kind of what-if bazaar is this?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Not comparing the two, but that's not the best comparison. If you have maintained a decent wage structure, you're going to get good value on transfers - they managed to sell some really shit players for 20m or so. Thanks to the wages we're giving, none of Lingard, AP, Jones, etc. would go for that amount and they are much better players than the dross Klopp sold

That was my point, though. Vastly different circumstances and quality of manager so trying to justify Ole's spending vs Klopp is daft.

His net spend is actually around the £100m mark.

He inherited a worse squad and took him 3 seasons to build it.

Ole has been given one season.

So does net spend mean he didnt spend money? They got £140m for Coutinho which Barca got robbed.

Ole net spend is £100m and he finished 3rd with 3 semi finals. What did Klopp achieve in his first season?

Oh here we go, now it's comparing their first first full season. Fecking hell.

Yeah ok mate, Ole and Klopp should be compared, as such, I fully expect us to reach the CL final next year, win a CL title in two years, and win the PL within three with nearly 100 points. I can't wait!

 

[anant]

That was my point, though. Vastly different circumstances and quality of manager so trying to justify Ole's spending vs Klopp is daft.

Oops. Edited my earlier post. I meant comparing the net spends is not the best comparison here

 

[Tom Cato]

Now is the time to move him on and get Poch. We won't though and likely be in a similiar or worse position next season.

Can you extrapolate on why you say this?

I'd love some insight into this way of looking at the team as a whole, the results - primarily in 2020, the academy talent developing and the prospect of new signings in the transfer window.

What about this team is it that makes you think we will be worse off next season?

There is so much knee-jerking going on every time we lose a game, or even draw, but everyone are awfully quiet when we win.

We have lost TWO games of football in 2020. Two semi finals in cups. Something to note: The loss against Sevilla is one of the greatest football robberies of 2020. They scored on both their chances after grieveous personal mistakes from our defenders, vs our 10 qualfieid BIG scoring chances and the 7 shots that didnt hit the target.

Yesterday was a cannonade against Sevilla, it didnt go our way, "Hire Poch". What the actual hell could Poch have done about last night? Subbed Rashford off earlier, and what would that possibly have accomplishes? Remember last time Dan James came on as a sub? He was AWFUL, but now he's the solution fo sho all of a sudden?

It pisses me off to no end that we still have fans that have seen whats' happened with this team the past 8 months and you are somehow not bloody enthusiastic about the future. HOW is that actually possible? Please explain to me how you can be so massively negative after a GOOD season amidst a goddamn squad rebuild.

 

[romufc]

That was my point, though. Vastly different circumstances and quality of manager so trying to justify Ole's spending vs Klopp is daft.

Oh here we go, now it's comparing their first first full season. Fecking hell.

Yeah ok mate, Ole and Klopp should be compared, as such, I fully expect us to reach the CL final next year, win a CL title in two years, and win the PL within three with nearly 100 points. I can't wait!

I didn't compare him, you are the one who started the comparison.

I said he is a top top coach. So success has to be 100 points? Does that make fergie a bad manager?

No one is saying Ole is Klopp, all I said was even Klopp had to spend money to get where he is.

Comparing Ole spending and Klopp is daft so is comparing Ole to Klopp as a manager.

 

[Rightnr]

Why are people so worked up? I thought this was a pointless competition or does that analogy apply only while belittling what Jose did. Anyway we are already in the CL so people need to chill and hope for improvements next term.

I actually agree on the EL being of little consequence. I know it's a trophy and we should aim to win as many as we can but hopefully this loss can put even more pressure on the board to get Sancho.

As much as I don't think OGS is the man to take us forward, if he leaves a young and talented team in a year or two, at least we'd be building for hopefully a more competent appointee.

Also, with the fixture list as it stands for next season, we can use the break and save up energy from games like the Super up final.

 

[Terminator]

If we don't win a trophy next season, he should be off. Has done a good job so far, but not sure he is the one to take us to the next level.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I didn't compare him, you are the one who started the comparison.

I said he is a top top coach. So success has to be 100 points? Does that make fergie a bad manager?

No one is saying Ole is Klopp, all I said was even Klopp had to spend money to get where he is.

Yeah, so... if you're using Klopp's spending as an example as to why Ole needs to spend, that's called a comparison.

 

[romufc]

Yeah, so... that's called a comparison.

Klopp has had money to spend just like every other manager in the world who wins stuff, or aims to win stuff.

Jose had money to spend
Pep has had money to spend
Lampard
Unai Emry
Pochetino
Sarri
Zidane

I can go on and on and on and on.

 

[MattofManchester]

Comfortable 3rd place and reach the UCL knockout stages or he's out.

Simple enough.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Klopp has had money to spend

Not nearly as much as Ole!

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Can you extrapolate on why you say this?

I'd love some insight into this way of looking at the team as a whole, the results - primarily in 2020, the academy talent developing and the prospect of new signings in the transfer window.

What about this team is it that makes you think we will be worse off next season?

There is so much knee-jerking going on every time we lose a game, or even draw, but everyone are awfully quiet when we win.

We have lost TWO games of football in 2020. Two semi finals in cups. Something to note: The loss against Sevilla is one of the greatest football robberies of 2020. They scored on both their chances after grieveous personal mistakes from our defenders, vs our 10 qualfieid BIG scoring chances and the 7 shots that didnt hit the target.

Yesterday was a cannonade against Sevilla, it didnt go our way, "Hire Poch". What the actual hell could Poch have done about last night? Subbed Rashford off earlier, and what would that possibly have accomplishes? Remember last time Dan James came on as a sub? He was AWFUL, but now he's the solution fo sho all of a sudden?

It pisses me off to no end that we still have fans that have seen whats' happened with this team the past 8 months and you are somehow not bloody enthusiastic about the future. HOW is that actually possible? Please explain to me how you can be so massively negative after a GOOD season amidst a goddamn squad rebuild.

Credit for the post. I gave up months ago. Came to conclusion that most of the posters were ashamed to have Molde coach at that helm and still can’t switch off. Can’t analyze, don’t watch the games, only see the results. The newbies read all the negativity and try to make impression of die hard Reds throwing insults at the team and the manager.

Solskjaer is not a trendy, hipster coach in Klopp (Nagelsmann whatever) mould. Young fans can’t forgive him that.

 

[romufc]

Not nearly as much as Ole!

You are going by net spend. It isnt Ole's fault that the club cannot get the same value Liverpool's board gets for their players?

Or are you going to blame that on Ole too?

Liverpool 16/17 - £72m
Liverpool 17/18 - £156m
Liverpool 18/19 - £163m

That is a total of £391m compared to £200m Ole has spent so far.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Why do people continue to compare the two? One is one of the best managers of his generation, the other is.. Ole.

I think the point is that, if it took until his 4th season for one of the best managers of his generation to build a really good team, its somewhat unfair to expect Ole to do it in half that time.

 

[MattofManchester]

Credit for the post. I gave up months ago. Came to conclusion that most of the posters were ashamed to have Molde coach at that helm and still can’t switch off. Can’t analyze, don’t watch the games, only see the results. The newbies read all the negativity and try to make impression of die hard Reds throwing insults at the team and the manager.

Solskjaer is not a trendy, hipster coach in Klopp (Nagelsmann whatever) mould. Young fans can’t forgive him that.

Wtf are you on about? You act as if results don't matter when they clearly do.
Playing the best football in the world but still getting relegated is still getting relegated.

Did you have that same opinion when we completely outplayed Spurs under Mourinho and lost 3-0? No, you didn't, did you?

A lot of people have made good points for Ole not being good enough, in the same way that a lot of people have made good points that he is right for the role.


On this "young" nonsense, I'd rather trust the opinions of any young person than of the older generations that have consistently fecked up the world. So being old gives you less credibility.

 

[Cloud7]

For me the only outcome I expected out of this season was to get into the CL. We did that, so that’s settled.

I’m still not convinced on him actually being the manager to take us back to the top in the medium-long term, but we’re at least going in the right direction. No reason to sack him unless a truly quality manager becomes available and is interested in the United job. As it stands he should get next season.

Next season, on the other hand, we do need to see more progress. He needs to build on this season. I’ve never been one that cares about the FA cup or the league cup, I judge based on performances in Europe and the league. I don’t expect us to challenge for the league, second or third is the most I would expect next season, but it has to be accomplished in a more proficient fashion. This season you could say we basically sneaked in because of the collapse of the clubs around us, but next season we should be improving to the point where there’s no doubt we’re at least the third best team in the league. A decent run in the CL would be good as well. Again, not expecting us to win, but we do need to give a good account of ourselves.

My TLDR is, no sacking. Back. Keep an eye out for potential replacements. Need to show that next season is an improvement on this one.

 

[dev1l]

 

[Beaucoup]

No they won’t.

I'm pretty sure if we drop another 100+ mil, limping into the top 4 and winning feck all won't be acceptable.

 

[Green_Red]

We would still struggle to make top 4 and play exactly as we played tonight. This is the best we will get. We’ve peaked.

We've peaked? With one of the youngest (average age) starting XI's in club football right now we've peaked? Do you even think about what you're typing?

Someone else can correct this, didn't we have a stat recently where we played the youngest ever starting XI in a European game?

I have to honest with you, you're one of the worst posters on here. It's constant negativity, you need to catch a grip. In another comment you made you said "we would continue to be semi-final bottlers". Just mind blowing, really.

 

[Solius]

We would still struggle to make top 4 and play exactly as we played tonight. This is the best we will get. We’ve peaked.

A forward line aged 22, 24 and 18 have peaked lads.

 

[rotherham_red]

I genuinely don't understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth on here over yesterday. We played well, and should have taken our chances and there were periods in the game where our inexperience showed. But we did play well. When their keeper is getting MOTM, you know that it just isn't going to be your day. I'd understand the emotional responses to the game if we were flat like we were against Copenhagen or Lask, but I thought for decent stretches of the match we were more than decent.

Also I'd rather they learned from these mistakes and missed opportunities now, than have a rude awakening in the CL next season and tbh, I think a trophy might well have papered over the cracks (as much as I would have loved Ole to have won one this season). Klopp had two golden opportunities in his first season to win something and proceeded to lose both of them as well. Shit happens.

 

[romufc]

I genuinely don't understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth on here over yesterday. We played well, and should have taken our chances and there were periods in the game where our inexperience showed. But we did play well. When their keeper is getting MOTM, you know that it just isn't going to be your day. I'd understand the emotional responses to the game if we were flat like we were against Copenhagen or Lask, but I thought for decent stretches of the match we were more than decent.

Also I'd rather they learned from these mistakes and missed opportunities now, than have a rude awakening in the CL next season and tbh, I think a trophy might well have papered over the cracks (as much as I would have loved Ole to have won one this season). Klopp had two golden opportunities in his first season to win something and proceeded to lose both of them as well. Shit happens.

For me, because we qualified for CL and what not, the game yesterday was more about performance. Sevilla are sort of the team we will get drawn in the group stages in pot 3/4. it showed that we have the ability to beat these teams but we have to be switched on and clinical.

It was our best game since Brighton. This season has been a very good learning curve for the players and manager.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think the point is that, if it took until his 4th season for one of the best managers of his generation to build a really good team, its somewhat unfair to expect Ole to do it in half that time.

Except that's just not true. Klopp had built a really good team by his 2nd full season at the club.

I would expect Ole to have built a good team by next season, not necessarily a title winning side but one capable of at least getting a solid points total (75+), a decent CL run, and actually getting past a semi final would be nice, too. Anything less will be a failure.

 

[AshRK]

It's funny when we were grinding results against Crystal Palace and Leicester, some here said results are temporary but it's the performance that matters. Now when we should have won comfortably against sevilla and we lose the same are focusing on result.

The sooner people realise we are work in progress the better. The squad has a long way to go and next season is cruicial for everyone.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You are going by net spend. It isnt Ole's fault that the club cannot get the same value Liverpool's board gets for their players?

Or are you going to blame that on Ole too?

Liverpool 16/17 - £72m
Liverpool 17/18 - £156m
Liverpool 18/19 - £163m

That is a total of £391m compared to £200m Ole has spent so far.

I'm not blaming Ole for anything, I'm saying comparisons between his and Klopp's spend are irrelevant.

And I don't think Ole has bought particularly well. Bruno is great but the others leave a lot to be desired for what they cost us. Maguire is the only one of the three that's likely good enough (just about) for a team that wants to challenge, and he cost a fecking fortune.

 

[romufc]

I'm not blaming Ole for anything, I'm saying comparisons between his and Klopp's spend are irrelevant.

And I don't think Ole has bought particularly well. Bruno is great but the others leave a lot to be desired for what they cost us. Maguire is the only one of the three that's likely good enough (just about) for a team that wants to challenge, and he cost a fecking fortune.

So it is Ole's fault we spend so much money? Bruno cost £45m rising to £60m and he is not good enough?

He has bought much better than any other manager has in the last 7 years.

 

[rotherham_red]

For me, because we qualified for CL and what not, the game yesterday was more about performance. Sevilla are sort of the team we will get drawn in the group stages in pot 3/4. it showed that we have the ability to beat these teams but we have to be switched on and clinical.

It was our best game since Brighton. This season has been a very good learning curve for the players and manager.

Absolutely, totally agree on all counts. It's a young team which is still experiencing growing pains, and there are some in there who are good up to a certain point but not to the level that is required. It's those players who need to be improved on by having better quality alternatives who can demote them to squad player status.

The crucial thing is, that Ole needs to be properly backed in the market the way Jose and LvG were. Nothing less will suffice.

 

[Massive Spanner]

So it is Ole's fault we spend so much money? Bruno cost £45m rising to £60m and he is not good enough?

He has bought much better than any other manager has in the last 7 years.

The feck are you on about? I already said Bruno was great.

No it's not strictly Ole's fault but he sanctions that transfers and he decided Maguire was worth the £80m vs other, potentially cheaper targets. You have to consider the fact that there was a budget last summer and he chose to spend almost all of it on 2 overpriced defenders. Maguire you could probably overlook because he'll be good enough here long term but AWB just doesn't look like a full back you want at a top club. James is just shite.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Except that's just not true. Klopp had built a really good team by his 2nd full season at the club.

And this is Ole's first full season, if you want to look at it this way.

I would expect Ole to have built a good team by next season, not necessarily a title winning side but one capable of at least getting a solid points total (75+), a decent CL run, and actually getting past a semi final would be nice, too. Anything less will be a failure.

Other than the semi final thing (which is too much in the lap of the gods), I don't think that's unreasonable, or indeed unlikely, looking at our form once things clicked last season.

 

[romufc]

Absolutely, totally agree on all counts. It's a young team which is still experiencing growing pains, and there are some in there who are good up to a certain point but not to the level that is required. It's those players who need to be improved on by having better quality alternatives who can demote them to squad player status.

The crucial thing is, that Ole needs to be properly backed in the market the way Jose and LvG were. Nothing less will suffice.

Our front line is 22, 24, 18 with Bruno 25. We have a squad with AWB, Maguire, Fred, McTominay, Greenwood who have not experienced winning, this season has been a good step up.

Ole needs to be backed surely, not just like Jose and LVG but like every manager who wants to improve and challenge.

Pep first season was a disaster because the players were not good enough, Klopp finished 8th in the league and those are the 2 best managers in the world, again context.

 

[AshRK]

I'm not blaming Ole for anything, I'm saying comparisons between his and Klopp's spend are irrelevant.

And I don't think Ole has bought particularly well. Bruno is great but the others leave a lot to be desired for what they cost us. Maguire is the only one of the three that's likely good enough (just about) for a team that wants to challenge, and he cost a fecking fortune.

Ok I get it people are upset we lost yesterday but why change facts.

Ole has bought 4 players and 3 of them have been a massive improvements. James the otber one has done well for his first full season.

 

[romufc]

The feck are you on about? I already said Bruno was great.

No it's not strictly Ole's fault but he sanctions that transfers and he decided Maguire was worth the £80m vs other, potentially cheaper targets. You have to consider the fact that there was a budget last summer and he chose to spend almost all of it on 2 overpriced defenders. Maguire you could probably overlook because he'll be good enough here long term but AWB just doesn't look like a full back you want at a top club. James is just shite.

Well you said he hasnt bought well? So we have 2 players who are brilliant ? James was always a squad player for £15m.

Okay, what are the potential cheaper options to Maguire? Ake for £40m? De Ligt for £70m?

Do you want me to show you AWB stats?

So 3/4 signings have come off and he hasnt bought well?