No need, Didn't actually have a problem with it either. Fair enough on the rest, can relate, though I may not totally agree on the final conclusion
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Yeah - but Molde, Cardiff, United legend (which is a derogatory term in this context - oh, the sentimentality of it all), etc.
In short, there are reasonable posters who worry about Ole's long-term potential (but these generally don't seem to advocate his immediate sacking). And there are cnuts who are blinded by prejudice against him (for all sorts of reasons).
Either I suck at maths or I am missing something here. For example from December 1st and January 29th we played 18 matches this season. 60 days 18 matches is ~3.3 days between. 11 matches in 37 days is pretty much exactly the same. To me the schedule we had just now is absolutely no different than what we should be used to playing with European football and cups.
I'd argue that 1 loss in 22 games is about as feckin consistent as you'll get in recent memory in the PL.
I just checked as well...
Klopp managed 1 loss in 19 twice and his best record is 1 loss in 20. Stand to be corrected on that info but having just ran my eye over results for them going back to 2016 that seems to be the case.
For Pep, it seems to be 1 loss in 24.
Not really sure how much more consistent you can expect when only 1 manager has bested him in recent memory.
Season didn't start 22 games ago did it?
It's different in that we've had two winter schedules in one season. But it's worse in that it's crunch time, it's when trophies are won or loss and therefore mentally it's exhausting. It's hard enough in a normal season!
You're comparing phases at different parts of the season, you should be comparing them at the same time. I.E. from premier league matchday 30. That gives a fair comparison.
People should understand that Ole has done what he needs to be done this season.
People also should understand that not everyone thinks he can win the PL or the CL.
That's a difference of opinion.
What's the most important is not Ole but Manchester United. So be it any manager who is going to win us trophies. Be it Ole or not.
The way some people are going here I feel they are fans of Ole and not Manchester United.
Everyone here wants United to win and everyone here is a supporter of Manchester United.
It's demeaning to crow about fans who doesn't think Ole can win the PL and CL. They have a right to express their views as they also want United to succeed.
As for people who want him gone, they should accept that he has done what he was required to do to manage United next season.
I still have my issues with him in his tactics and his game management. It's my opinion and I have said the reasons time and again.
But for now he has earned the right to manage United and let's hope he succeeds and wins us the PL and CL next year and win the EL this year too.
People also should understand that not everyone thinks he can win the PL or the CL.
That's a difference of opinion.
What's the most important is not Ole but Manchester United. So be it any manager who is going to win us trophies. Be it Ole or not.
The way some people are going here I feel they are fans of Ole and not Manchester United.
Everyone here wants United to win and everyone here is a supporter of Manchester United.
It's demeaning to crow about fans who doesn't think Ole can win the PL and CL. They have a right to express their views as they also want United to succeed.
As for people who want him gone, they should accept that he has done what he was required to do to manage United next season.
I still have my issues with him in his tactics and his game management. It's my opinion and I have said the reasons time and again.
But for now he has earned the right to manage United and let's hope he succeeds and wins us the PL and CL next year and win the EL this year too.
Excellent point on Lingard, Pereira playing in the majority of those games.
Nah, just that your prediction was horribly incorrect and your prophecies of impending doom and destruction were premature.You really think Ole proved his doubters wrong already don't you? I would say it's a bit premature but whatever
It would be equally hard with CL and EL games. Two times per week is normal during a season with all the cups.
It is rare you get rest fighting on all fronts. It is so tight that Liverpool had to play two games at the same day. due to the club world cup.
Which was silly from FA still to not find a solution.
He overhauled a huge gap to Top 4, never mind he actually got us 3rd!
The quality like Bruno he has brought in only gives me more confidence we have the right guy at the right time.
100% Back him, and I think we will challenge for the title in the next 2 years.
Really looking forward to us in the CL next year too, he knows how to win that!
The quality like Bruno he has brought in only gives me more confidence we have the right guy at the right time.
100% Back him, and I think we will challenge for the title in the next 2 years.
Really looking forward to us in the CL next year too, he knows how to win that!
Let us hope that Ole can prove us all wrong and manage a CL season well enough. It is going to be harder on all fronts. He need to coach the side better so backup guys know how to do the job.
If he does then we can fight for the big things. CL might be easier to win since we should be able to reach the knockout rounds. Then if we win the group there might only be 3 hard games away from the title.
If he does then we can fight for the big things. CL might be easier to win since we should be able to reach the knockout rounds. Then if we win the group there might only be 3 hard games away from the title.
I don't quite get your point but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. We literally had a 3 month break and looked knackered after 7-8 games. We won't have that luxury to rest 3 months next season (I guess) so we better learn to keep our players more fresh.
To me, this season has been reminiscent of LVG's first season. Ole has done the absolute minimum one way or other. I cannot see him get anywhere close to 85 points, which would be the absolute minimum.
Normally there are around 8 games per month (2 games per week and maybe slightly less).
In CL in February there is more rest though since they have one round less.
Although near the end of the season it will be the same if you include FA cup games.
Ole finished top 4, so he gets another year. Expectations will he higher next year, so scraping top 4 on the last day may not be enough to save him next year. TBF, expectations will he higher for him AND the players next year, so everyone needs to step up or risk being shipped off. Has to close the gap on the top 2 IMO. FA Cup can be a cr@p shoot at times with the luck of the draw, so I'm not going to say he has to get a trophy there. He has to get out of the group stages in the UCL though.
That's quite a good record, but it doesn't help very much.
Every one of us would take losing 10-0 home and away against Liverpool and City if it meant we won the league.
If we're not up for the scraps against West Ham or Watford, then there's little point in beating the big guys.
That isn't the point.
You requested consistency, you're getting it and still complaining.
I was always Ole-in, but got no issue with respecting and seeing the sense in some of the caution/criticism leveled at him, especially since the poll was initially opened during the season and it was anyone's guess as to where we would end up. That said, I do find it a tad more difficult to see the sense in Ole-out sentiment now that we actually did finish 3rd.
We can always argue what defines progress:
is it style of play?
how many goals we score?
how many goals we let in?
head 2 head vs top 6?
head 2 head vs outside top 6?
player development?
transfer record?
background staff?
But at the end of the day, it's really just one metric that counts - where did you place at the end of the season.
We placed third after 38 matches - we did not get anything for free.
Again, I find it difficult to see the sense in the Ole-out sentiment today, it comes across to me as "change for the sake of changing"....
We can always argue what defines progress:
is it style of play?
how many goals we score?
how many goals we let in?
head 2 head vs top 6?
head 2 head vs outside top 6?
player development?
transfer record?
background staff?
But at the end of the day, it's really just one metric that counts - where did you place at the end of the season.
We placed third after 38 matches - we did not get anything for free.
Again, I find it difficult to see the sense in the Ole-out sentiment today, it comes across to me as "change for the sake of changing"....
So sack him if he doesn't get 85 points next season??
That would have been enough to win the Premier League 9 times since 92/93.
What have I been wrong about? That we will continue to be fekking sh1te till the Glazers sell up? That Ole isn't good enough to win the title? That the club is badly run? Which one has turned out wrong?
Ole is not the biggest problem in my opinion, Ed Woodward and the antiquated football structure at the club is.
Is Ole absolutely the best manager in the world? Quite clearly he's not.
But he's doing an adequate job, and I seriously doubt even Pep or Klopp could win the title when we're so inefficient at churning the squad.
Is Ole absolutely the best manager in the world? Quite clearly he's not.
But he's doing an adequate job, and I seriously doubt even Pep or Klopp could win the title when we're so inefficient at churning the squad.
If only we had similar results as Pool or City against the rest of the 14 teams.
Pretty much this, though Ole is getting a little better day by day I think. He and the coaching staff will really need to work on in game management and rotations to keep everyone fit throughout the season. We have seen these limitations in the latter part of this season restart, albeit a unique situation.
Believe me when Fergie was winning titles but not performing that great against our top rivals, the desire was that we play better against those teams.
At that time, the people who opposed that view said it's important that we are consistent when playing the rest of the league, too.
Funny how that's the argument against Ole because I'm sure it's exactly those who posed the former point using the latter now.
Yeah, the 14 game unbeaten streak had nothing to do with it whatsoever.That had more to do with Leicester picking up a miserable 24 points in 22 games
But yeah, since mid-December we’ve been much improved and have ended the PL on a high. I’d imagine we’re an attractive proposition again for some excellent players, let’s see where next season takes us.
We are in the CL and Manchester United is still one of the biggest clubs in the world. Top players will be ready to come to play if we are in the champions league.
We certainly need two midfield players a CB and maybe another full back. These need to be world class players as the current 11 is not good enough.
Then Ole needs to get his coaching and tactics spot on. When I say Ole I include his staff as well.
3rd or 4th is not enough for next season.
We certainly need two midfield players a CB and maybe another full back. These need to be world class players as the current 11 is not good enough.
Then Ole needs to get his coaching and tactics spot on. When I say Ole I include his staff as well.
3rd or 4th is not enough for next season.
Think we won lots despite the Glazers, not because. Rival fans always point out the silly money invested since 2013 (fair enough), but look at the spending for the 6 years prior, and even more significant the net spend. We staled at a time City and Chelsea were going big, and the investment needed was clear as day from 2010-2013.
A stitch in time saves nine, comes to mind. Probably would have spent a lot less and been in a better position, had we spent big in Fergies last couple of seasons.
At the current rate, teams are getting towards 95 points while winning the league and I expect Liverpool or city to get above 90 points next season as well. So, if we want to be any closer to them, we should be getting 80-85 points. and if we don't, Yes of course we should sack him.
Say, we finish third behind city and liverpool next season as well, but 20 points off both, do you think that's an improvement? Or do you suggest keep him on and wait for Klopp and Pep to leave so we can have a go at the title?
Just see this on Facebook.
• 4 players scored 10 or more goals
• Martial and Rashford enjoyed their personal best season
• Mason Greenwood's development
• Martial did well as number 9 (scored his first hattrick)
• Signed Bruno Fernandes, Harry Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Ighalo, James
• 2nd fewest games lost in the league
• 4th most wins in the league
• 26 Cleansheets — most in Europe
• 36 league goals conceded — third fewest in the division
• 0.84 goals conceded per game — second fewest in Europe
• 2nd best record against top 6
• 113 goals this season — the most since Sir Alex Ferguson.
• Fred's revival and McTominay's development
• Luke Shaw's revival
I don't get unnecessary hate he gets. My manager!
• 4 players scored 10 or more goals
• Martial and Rashford enjoyed their personal best season
• Mason Greenwood's development
• Martial did well as number 9 (scored his first hattrick)
• Signed Bruno Fernandes, Harry Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Ighalo, James
• 2nd fewest games lost in the league
• 4th most wins in the league
• 26 Cleansheets — most in Europe
• 36 league goals conceded — third fewest in the division
• 0.84 goals conceded per game — second fewest in Europe
• 2nd best record against top 6
• 113 goals this season — the most since Sir Alex Ferguson.
• Fred's revival and McTominay's development
• Luke Shaw's revival
I don't get unnecessary hate he gets. My manager!
City got 81 this season. If we are as good as City next season we will be making serious progress.
About 8 to 10 more points than this season and securing champions league football with a few games to spare should be the expectations for 2020/21. This group of players are a while off from getting 85 plus points.
Worth remembering when Klopp joined Liverpool in October 2015 they finished the season in 8th.
His first full season he led Liverpool to 4th by just one point. His 2nd full season 4th again five points ahead of 5th.
The transfer business United do in the next two to three years will be key and that includes moving out the dead wood that's still floating around.
People do realize that we've improved on every metric as compared to last season, right?
We've had more shots, more possession, betting passing %, were fouled more and we dribbled more. We conceded lesser number of shots and made more interceptions, we played more of the game in opposition third and we cleared the ball less. Its these numbers that Ole can control - he can't control the result, but the things that contribute to a result, and we've shown an improvement on every single one of these
We've had more shots, more possession, betting passing %, were fouled more and we dribbled more. We conceded lesser number of shots and made more interceptions, we played more of the game in opposition third and we cleared the ball less. Its these numbers that Ole can control - he can't control the result, but the things that contribute to a result, and we've shown an improvement on every single one of these
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What?
Also, what is this 85 points threshold based off? Points are based on the relative strength/weakness of the league for that season.
Totally agree, but one position is easier to change than an entire football structure and they're much more likely at this point to change the manager than the way they operate. As a result, I think the question is whether Ole is a good enough manager to ultimately challenge for titles in spite of that antiquated football structure. If the answer to that is no, then the longer he's here the larger the bigger the problem with that inefficiency with squad churn you mentioned.
What?
Also, what is this 85 points threshold based off? Points are based on the relative strength/weakness of the league for that season.
It is based on the assumption that Liverpool or city will get to 95 next season. Let me put it this way, we should be atleast within 10 points of the top 2 to call it a progress next season.
So if we finish the season with 84 points playing some good football and reach semis in UCL but finish 15 points behind city and Liverpool, so should ole be sacked then.
If we get 75 Points and end 3rd - of course it's an improvment. But I am pretty certain that City and Liverpool wont get 95 Points. City because they are too shake in defense - and Liverpool because they had an absolute max season and I doubt they will come Close to it next season. High 80s maybe even 90 or so - but 95...I don't think so
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