Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Chairman Steve]

Even more worryingly, media are on the same bandwagon too. Did you watch MOTD yesterday? Lampard was complemented so much, you would expect him to have won the league. On the other hand, not a word of praise for Ole. According to the three pundits (Lineker, Shearer and Wright) it was all on Bruno. Nothing else.

Because Lampard is still relatively new in the role and he’s English. No doubt the press are always on the hunt for the next England manager. Let’s not forget how much the press were praising Solskjaer after beating PSG in Paris too so he has had credit in his tenure. I suppose Lampard will get more credit because he wasnt allowed transfers and their standout player left.

I’d rather we went under the radar regarding press coverage because expectations and pressure will mount of the back of the praise.

 

[romufc]

Even more worryingly, media are on the same bandwagon too. Did you watch MOTD yesterday? Lampard was complemented so much, you would expect him to have won the league. On the other hand, not a word of praise for Ole. According to the three pundits (Lineker, Shearer and Wright) it was all on Bruno. Nothing else.

Lampard has been complimented alot by various pundits. They are looking at it like how everyone is saying transfer ban etc...

They lost Hazard and signed Pulisic, they got Tammy, Mount, Tomori, James and the likes back from loan as well.

We lost our top goal scorer too at the start of the season. They all doubted Martial, Rashford etc.. Ole got them going.

Ole got us to semi final of league cup
semi final of FA cup
3rd place
Quarter final EL so far.

Yes, Bruno catapulted us to another level but no one is saying VVD is the only reason Liverpool are so good. Without him they don't win the CL and the PL. So you do need top top players.

Chelsea finished 3rd and won the EL last season. Ole got a team that was all over the place.

The problem is alot of our own fan base is saying Bruno is the only reason too.

 

[AshRK]

My prediction was not based on the quality of our squad, you can dig as much as you want I always said we have a better team than many of our own fans believe and that it's good enough for TOP 4. My prediction was based on how we finished last season and that I didn't think Ole is good enough.

Understandable but you are not factoring the injuries that we suffered in September/october. This was our attacking line up against West Ham in that 2-0 loss: Rashford-James-Mata-Periera. Further Rashford got injured and we were playing with Lingard as the striker. I wouldn't call this a good squad.

Further the next league game against Arsenal our attacking line up was Rashford-James-Periera-Lingard. Ashley Young (remember him) and Tuanzebe were our full backs that game.

Against Newcastle (1-0 loss) our attacking line up was same to the West ham game with Mata back in and our full backs were Young and Dalot.

The point being had there were no injuries then yes maybe one can argue we may have a top 4 squad but we lost key players during that time and it was bound to make us look weak.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

My prediction was not based on the quality of our squad, you can dig as much as you want I always said we have a better team than many of our own fans believe and that it's good enough for TOP 4. My prediction was based on how we finished last season and that I didn't think Ole is good enough.

So you were wrong about Ole then

 

[dove]

So you were wrong about Ole then

Time will tell.

 

[b82REZ]

Yes, he did. No manager can get rid of every bit of deadwood around a club in a single summer & winter transfer window, it's not a realistic expectation to have of any manager. Big calls were made however and he was fully vindicated in making them!

Just for clarity Ole got rid of: Fellaini, Herrera, Valencia, Darmian, Lukaku & Young and loaned out Rojo, Smalling & Sanchez.

I'm not sure what your cheap little dig is about the Sanchez loan... many top European clubs use loans like Real, Dortmund, Bayern and Juve. The latter have done some super business with loans.

The risk had to be taken in leaving us light, it afforded young players mins this season. It was short term pain, for long term gain. It's because of these risks and long term vision Ole brought to the club he would be afforded time.

For years we had Young and Valencia in their 30s stinking up the club with support from Darmian also hitting 30, now we have AWB (22) & Shaw (25) and support from Dalot (21) & Williams (19).Where we had overweight and bad attitude Lukaku and ageing, injury prone Sanchez we now have 3 forwards with an avg age of 21 that gave us 88 goal involvements in their full debut season together.



Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, it really depends on the manager at the club. Simply put it is clear to see Ole's plan here when we look at the avg age of our team from last season to this, youth is the goal here and again to repeat myself long term vision. Our avg age from last season was 26 years old I believe and now it is the leagues youngest at 24.

What I would say is, even if he debuted with another manager would we of seen the same results? Before you fire off and think absolutely we would. Didn't ring true for Jose with his handling of Martial & Rashford did it. The latter went 26 games without a goal if memory serves right.

You seem to take this as a singular sentiment for him keeping his job, it isn't... its everything, altogether that would keep him in the job, not simply for debuting some young lads.



Not sure why you would disagree, unless you've forgotten just how utterly terrible we were previously under Jose? At no point this season did I feel in despair and even in games where we might not of been at our absolute best, I still felt we were deserving of 3pts more often then not. I can see that we can retain possession now very well whereas previously Jose had no desire to have the ball. I can see we counter on teams beautifully, something I don't think I ever saw consistently under Jose.

Again, to address these issues takes time. It doesn't happen over night and you need the necessary players for it to work something close to flawlessly and consistently but if you read up the right resources and take on board valid, objective information it shows otherwise.

Here's a twitter page I follow often and as early as Oct he had us as performing as 3rd best team in the league, that's with an injured Martial and Pogba bear in mind





There's no BS about it at all. Those numbers were still down on the previous year when at the back end of last season and right after being named full time manager of United he had 13 players injured at one point and do you know what followed? Horrendous form and performances, hardly surprising.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6389205...-each-club-suffered-during-the-2018-19-season

We did suffer some bad injuries, but it should give you an indication how bad last year was and previous years when this is still an improvement.




Absolutely we've stumbled across the line and you know why, I've explained it above. Lack of quality in the squad. Read the thread that Gandalf Greyhame posted. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-most-promising-side-post-saf-and-also-some-stats.456375/

A brilliant thread full of factual info that explains the issues Ole has faced and over come quite often, this one section hits the nail on the head and why Ole had to get every last drop out of the starting XI.

Sheffield United (A) : James, Fred, Williams, Pereira, Phil Jones start : 3-3 Draw
Bournemouth (A): James, Fred, McTominay, Pereira start : 1-0 loss
Villa (H): James, Pereira, Fred, Mata, Williams start: 2-2 Draw
Southampton (A): Mata, Pereira, James, McTominay start: 1-1 Draw
Palace (H) : Lingard, James, McTominay start: 1-2 Loss
West Ham (A): Mata, James, Pereira, McTominary start: 2-0 loss.

3/18 points before restart and 14/18 points now.



Don't just say they've regressed without name dropping. The only player who has is De Gea, but...that regression was already in place with Jose there. I don't attribute that to Ole's handling of him at all.

Outside of that, I'm genuinely struggling to think of players who previously were consistent and now are not.




Soooo basically like the Greenwood point you just don't want to give credit where it is due.

There really isn't much objectivity within your sentiments again sadly.

I really don't think you understand what objective means.

I can and have noted all the good Ole has done. I'm not going to give him credit for things I don't think he deserves it for.

I've always taken issue with the lauding of his clearing the deadwood. You're welcome to to back over my old posts but his decisions in the summer were irresponsible and almost cost him and the club this season. In fact I'd go as far as to say he was very lucky culling the squad the way he did didn't ruin his chances of top 4.

Other than sanctioning the signing, Ole does not get credit for Bruno's level when he arrived. We were buying one of the hottest properties in Europe. If we're going to credit Ole for that he needs to be questioned for his form falling off a cliff in the last few games.

You need to start understanding that I am able to recognise the good Ole has done, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to credit him for every positive because that isn't all down to him. You seem to overlook any positive things I say and only focus on the areas I say he needs to improve or I don't necessarily give him credit for.

You basically absolve a lot of the complaints about him by saying it was on Jose.

 

[dove]

Understandable but you are not factoring the injuries that we suffered in September/october. This was our attacking line up against West Ham in that 2-0 loss: Rashford-James-Mata-Periera. Further Rashford got injured and we were playing with Lingard as the striker. I wouldn't call this a good squad.

Further the next league game against Arsenal our attacking line up was Rashford-James-Periera-Lingard. Ashley Young (remember him) and Tuanzebe were our full backs that game.

Against Newcastle (1-0 loss) our attacking line up was same to the West ham game with Mata back in and our full backs were Young and Dalot.

The point being had there were no injuries then yes maybe one can argue we may have a top 4 squad but we lost key players during that time and it was bound to make us look weak.

Injuries of course played some part in our drop of form but hard to say exactly how much has it affected us seeing how we finished last season with pretty much fully fit team. Also I am not replying to everyone saying our squad is not good enough for TOP 4 as you can make a case for both sides here. If you don't think it's good enough, fair enough. I just replied to someone claiming "Realistically 6th to 8th was realistic with our squad, and that was with Pogba in it." which I think it's nonsense and serious underrating of our team.

 

[b82REZ]

Injuries of course played some part in our drop of form but hard to say exactly how much has it affected us seeing how we finished last season with pretty much fully fit team. Also I am not replying to everyone saying our squad is not good enough for TOP 4 as you can make a case for both sides here. If you don't think it's good enough, fair enough. I just replied to someone claiming "Realistically 6th to 8th was realistic with our squad, and that was with Pogba in it." which I think it's nonsense and serious underrating of our team.

This is problem in this thread. Many poster's are under some illusion their opinion is fact. CL qualification will have been his target.

We've sacked numerous manager for not reaching that target and this year would have been the worse year to miss out due to financial implications of the Adidas deal. Woodward is a businessman first and foremost and the nepotism we often see on here would not happen when evaluating Ole had he not got CL.

He's achieved his minimum target and really needs to crack on. His true ability probably lies somewhere between the two sides opinions of him and I genuinely hope he's learnt some important lessons this season. If he makes some of the same naive mistakes next season there is simply no excuse.

 

[Keefy18]

I really don't think you understand what objective means.

I can and have noted all the good Ole has done. I'm not going to give him credit for things I don't think he deserves it for.

I very much do.

The problem is you criticize him for things that are matter of fact, not true. Like the injury / fitness issues we've improved upon. Injuries happen to all clubs, every season. I'm simply highlighting the fact that he has improved on it.

That's just one area where you fail to be objective and don't analyze the detail further, rather just throw out blanket statements without supporting evidence as reasons for your beliefs.

I've always taken issue with the lauding of his clearing the deadwood. You're welcome to to back over my old posts but his decisions in the summer were irresponsible and almost cost him and the club this season. In fact I'd go as far as to say he was very lucky culling the squad the way he did didn't ruin his chances of top 4.

Again, why would anyone take issue with moving on Young, Fellaini, Valencia, Lukaku and Sanchez and replacing them with Williams, AWB, Greenwood & moving Martial to CF?

The latter has far greater upside.

Again as per the xg info (tweet) I sent you... the data showed he already had us playing to a level that suggested 3rd best side in the league as early as Oct.

Other than sanctioning the signing, Ole does not get credit for Bruno's level when he arrived. We were buying one of the hottest properties in Europe. If we're going to credit Ole for that he needs to be questioned for his form falling off a cliff in the last few games.

What about scouting? What about contacting Ronaldo to suss out his attitude? It isn't as binary as a manager simply saying yes and no. Ole has clearly done his homework, his due diligence if you will on each signing.

Ole discusses the Bruno transfer in the opening 15 mins or so here. Explained the highlighted part to you previously, you know.. lack of real quality in the squad? 3 pts from 18 and now 14 from 18?

You need to start understanding that I am able to recognise the good Ole has done, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to credit him for every positive because that isn't all down to him. You seem to overlook any positive things I say and only focus on the areas I say he needs to improve or I don't necessarily give him credit for.

You basically absolve a lot of the complaints about him by saying it was on Jose.

Honestly, to my mind he has done very little wrong thus far.

I see the right ideas in terms of squad rebuild being done, I see the attitude vastly improving. I see a defence improving, I see a midfield improving and I see attack improving.

For someone who is supposedly lacking tactically, he's managed to beat some of the leagues best managers in Jose, Pep & a draw with Klopp with limited resources in his full debut season.

It's all positive from me and that is me being objective.

 

[glazed]

Well, after all it's on him. It was exactly as he planned it.

Indeed. He gambled and won.

 

[glazed]

Absolutely clueless.

I think he's right. But Ole has earned the chance to prove him (and me) wrong.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I'll say this: everything else notwithstanding, this Poch fixation some people still have is just bizarre.

 

[rotherham_red]

Time will tell.

I'd say it's already told, considering we're 3rd and you had us down as 6th

 

[dove]

I'd say it's already told, considering we're 3rd and you had us down as 6th

You really think Ole proved his doubters wrong already don't you? I would say it's a bit premature but whatever

 

[Chesterlestreet]

They'd rather the club go backwards than admit they were wrong.

This is a real phenomenon in this day and age - sadly. I don't think it applies to many posters on this particular forum, happily. But the phenomenon is real. You go to such extremes with your criticism of someone that it becomes very hard, not to say impossible, to back down. We see it all the time with regard to individual players. It absolutely kills some people when a player they have concluded is shite/Championship quality/a complete fraud/whatever has an upsurge in form and delivers good performances.

There are people to whom being right on the Internet is of the utmost importance - and to suspect that such people actually want United to lose rather than admitting that perhaps the manager isn't quite as hopeless as they bombastically claimed is not outlandish at all. In fact, given the nature of the thing, it would be surprising if we don't have a number of posters who belong in this category. But - again - they aren't many. Just bloody vocal (which goes with the territory, you could say).

There are some people in here - not many but 15-20 posters whose comments have been so bad towards OGS that it's hard to say that they want the best for the club. OGS was clueless, a moron, the worst manager in the league and God knows what.

I said so months ago, when things began to turn properly ugly. It's never been about "criticism" or "skepticism" with that lot. It's been nasty words and insults, petty shite that doesn't belong anywhere, and certainly not on a United forum when the current manager is a man who lives and breathes United.

And - for the record - I have never been "Ole in" staunchly and implicitly. I was skeptical about Woodward giving him the job permanently and said so at the time.

 

[ReddBalls]

I think he's right. But Ole has earned the chance to prove him (and me) wrong again.

Fixed that for you.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

You really think Ole proved his doubters wrong already don't you? I would say it's a bit premature but whatever

A manager is only as good as their last season. He's proven you wrong and a lot of others wrong this season - most are happy to be wrong.

Next season he will be under scrutiny once again and rightly so.

 

[Oldham]

Fair play to Ole. Chanced my vote to keep. Will be exciting to see if he can transform us into a title challenging side next season...with two or three good signings I think we can...

 

[Verminator]

You would have thought that this place would be like happy-land today, but there are still some people clinging to their prejudices.
You don't sell your only CF, without replacing them and expect to improve league position, unless you are supremely confident in your vision.
(I thought we would struggle to finish in the top half.)
I think Ed had accepted this was going to be a blank season, but with necessary bloodletting, for the long term vision.

The doomsayers on here constantly said "he should be gone, if he didn't get top 4, and that is how he should be judged."

Well he achieved your threshold of success, and even managed a spot higher.
All whilst it being a transitional period.
That is an amazing feat.
Compare last year's teamsheet to this one, to see how much of an overhaul this has been.

Compare how many of Pellegrini's players have remained stalwarts in the Lord God Peps side.

Our regulars from Jose's side are DDG, Matic, Lindelof (all of these are seen as being upgradeable, by some). Shaw was missing for more than half the games, and Rashford and Martial were rotated.
That is a huge change.

But, I don't know why I'm wasting my time.
If people still want to bemoan what Ole has done, and more importantly, is doing, after his achievements in 1.5 seasons, the day after finishing third, they will never change.

By all means, have a go if things go off track. State what you'd like to see for the team to improve.
But if you can't put aside your small-mindedness at a time like this, you should ask why you're here at all.

 

[Fredo]

Ole has done such a great job this season, so happy he will be leading us next season, so happy he stepped up and made this clearout. We have good first 11,now it:s the time to bring more players to properly rotate and remain competitive. Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, who were all deemed not good enough for Jose, turned out to be our star performers this season.. Shows when you put faith in those boys they will do whatever it takes.. Proud of Ole and the managing team, bring on next season

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I think Ed had accepted this was going to be a blank season, but with necessary bloodletting, for the long term vision.

This was my hope at the beginning of the season - but back then it wasn't based on anything truly substantial (not anything I personally had seen stated anywhere, at least).

But it has now transpired that something of the sort is actually the case: Ole has stated explicitly that he was given the job (permanently) with a certain long-term plan in mind, and that he made it clear to his employers that it won't be an easy fix.

That is reassuring for me. It's something else than what we've seen under previous managers.

 

[rollingstoned1]

Lucky Leicester completely choked: Yes, let's keep pretending that not only did we claw ourselves back from a 14 point deficit to finish 4 points ahead, but we also pegged Chelsea along the way too. In the end, Leicester's poor form was inconsequential, because we topped Chelsea too.

indeed, for the lot who have pivoted on 'caution' now if we had suffered a similar set of results - heck they do it even when we go on a small bad patch - it's because we are shit and not unlucky. but when we win or seem to be doing well it's down to everything else from a false dawn purple patch, league being shit, playing the right kind of teams at the right time, etc. We saw this when we were beating the strongest teams in the league and people were saying both that we are only a good counter attacking team/let's see how we do in the big games. now it's that there isn't a 'defined playing style'.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure where to post this

 

[sp_107]

Not sure what happens to Ole but if I spend this much time on Redcafe my manager would sack me for sure, Its an addiction even we were not playing well and since Bruno joined its just everything.

So happy that better times are now back and enjoying the nice feeling of looking forward to next match with excitement.

 

[Greck]

But let’s be honest it’s taken a turn for the worse with posters like you because despite evidence to the contrary you are literally sat there with the blinkers on saying you’d replace Ole. He’s exceeded expectations and yet you want him gone. You can’t reason with that rationale because it simply defies logic.

Incredibly narrowminded take from you. No, it's not a turn, because I already knew Ole and the squad could make top 4 since the restart, especially with the way things unfolded in the 2nd half, even supported it. Thinking he and the team can/will make top 4 and viewing him as a transitional figure are not at odds with each other. You only think it's a turn because you blew your load early by viewing it as some kind of checkmate. Ideal scenario was for Ole to make top 4 for his successor to build on a solid foundation Ole had set (keep Pogba, sign european talent in the summer). The poll deleted the original option to let him finish out the season before replacing him. Some see him as the man, some see him as a transitional manager

 

[RedSky]

You really think Ole proved his doubters wrong already don't you? I would say it's a bit premature but whatever

What would convince you? We were never going to overtake Liverpool or City this season and we finished the best of the rest. You may say that was down to luck, I would say the unbeaten run we've had shows a top level of consistency. Strengthen in the window and we go again, this time we can start fast as we won't be bedding in several new first teamers. No excuses next season, we start strong and see where we end up.

We are not finishing 5th, Ole is that useless. If I had to bet, I would say 10th.

Also, you're one of my favourite anti Ole posters, i'm just teasing you but this made me giggle.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Ideal scenario was for Ole to make top 4 for his successor to build on a solid foundation Ole had set (keep Pogba, sign european talent in the summer).

Fair enough, but who is this successor?

Also, securing CL football and then - subsequently - securing top talents for the next man to work with, whilst cleaning up what many would call a right mess and getting pretty much everyone to feel good/hopeful about United again...is no mean feat for a stop-gap manager. If you add in the emergence of someone like Mason, the further development of Rashford and Martial, and the return of genuinely exciting attacking football - well, he's certainly done a truly remarkable job for a stop-gap.

In fact, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that given the current state of affairs, this successor you mention would have to be someone remarkable in his own right. Not some random German bloke who is supposedly "tactically savvy" but who has proven feck all in the grand scheme of things.

Or Poch.

 

[dove]

What would convince you? We were never going to overtake Liverpool or City this season and we finished the best of the rest. You may say that was down to luck, I would say the unbeaten run we've had shows a top level of consistency. Strengthen in the window and we go again, this time we can start fast as we won't be bedding in several new first teamers. No excuses next season, we start strong and see where we end up.



Also, you're one of my favourite anti Ole posters, i'm just teasing you but this made me giggle.

Consistency. I like how we look since Bruno came in but at the same time I am a bit vary because with Ole we seem to either go on a long unbeaten run or be on a relegation form for months, there is no inbetween. Also there are question marks about his game time management because he literally killed the team in a month and we should be used playing 2 games a week. As I said before we did well to finish 3rd, I like the type of squad Ole is trying to build and at times we look really good so there are quite a few positives. But at the same time we should expect to finish TOP 4 with the team we have and let's not forget how horrible we looked for a big chunk of the season. That's basically my take on it.

 

[Greck]

Fair enough, but who is this successor?

Also, securing CL football and then - subsequently - securing top talents for the next man to work with, whilst cleaning up what many would call a right mess and getting pretty much everyone to feel good/hopeful about United again...is no mean feat for a stop-gap manager. If you add in the emergence of someone like Mason, the further development of Rashford and Martial, and the return of genuinely exciting attacking football - well, he's certainly done a truly remarkable job for a stop-gap.

In fact, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that given the current state of affairs, this successor you mention would have to be someone remarkable in his own right. Not some random German bloke who is supposedly "tactically savvy" but who has proven feck all in the grand scheme of things.

Or Poch.

Friend, you know this discussion never ends well

 

[roonster09]

Consistency. I like how we look since Bruno came in but at the same time I am a bit vary because with Ole we seem to either go on a long unbeaten run or be on a relegation form for months, there is no inbetween. Also there are question marks about his game time management because he literally killed the team in a month and we should be used playing 2 games a week. As I said before we did well to finish 3rd, I like the type of squad Ole is trying to build and at times we look really good so there are quite a few positives. But at the same time we should expect to finish TOP 4 with the team we have and let's not forget how horrible we looked for a big chunk of the season. That's basically my take on it.

I think we did well when we played 2 games a week, playing 4 games in 9-10 days was the big problem.

 

[dove]

I think we did well when we played 2 games a week, playing 4 games in 9-10 days was the big problem.

I just checked a schedule again and it doesn't look any different at all of the one when we play in Europe with 3-4 days of average gap between matches.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Friend, you know this discussion never ends well

I know. But it's a reasonable question to ask, surely.

If we had ended the season on an undeniable low note - not so much. But as things stand, Ole pretty much did the job: brought in the right reinforcement in Bruno, integrated Pogba in a team that actually looks funcional for the most part, turned things around generally, finished third (top of the post-restart table and whatnot) - and yeah, not too shabby at all.

In short - if the manager has done reasonably well and is, as per himself and his employers, in the middle of a "process" (as LVG would say), it doesn't make sense to replace him unless someone who is an obvious and undeniable upgrade is available.

What does make sense is to let him continue said "process", given that it seems to involve recruiting the likes of Sancho, and then see how things turn out next season. If he doesn't build on what he's done so far - by all means, demand his arse (or head - or both) on a plate, rejoice in the fact that you were right to doubt him all along, and so forth. But here and now it really doesn't make much sense to go in for replacing him - and if you do, you really need to answer that question (who's the successor?), and explain why your candidate would be an undeniably better choice.

 

[roonster09]

I just checked a schedule again and it doesn't look any different at all of the one when we play in Europe with 3-4 days of average gap between matches.

We didn't play like that every week. We play on Sunday then you have game on thursday, then Sunday. That's 3 games in a week and it won't be like that every week either. So you get good enough rest. With this schedule it was 4 games in 9 days, something that will happen very rarely.

 

[RedSky]

Consistency. I like how we look since Bruno came in but at the same time I am a bit vary because with Ole we seem to either go on a long unbeaten run or be on a relegation form for months, there is no inbetween. Also there are question marks about his game time management because he literally killed the team in a month and we should be used playing 2 games a week. As I said before we did well to finish 3rd, I like the type of squad Ole is trying to build and at times we look really good so there are quite a few positives. But at the same time we should expect to finish TOP 4 with the team we have and let's not forget how horrible we looked for a big chunk of the season. That's basically my take on it.

We've shown consistency though.

It took time, granted. But no fecking shit. We changed our starting CB, our Captain, our starting RB. Our creative hub, Pogba was out injured for the first 2/3's of the season, Shaw was injured for the first third of it and it was plainly obvious very quickly that we had no adequate backup for him. Once we got a quality backup we immediately shifted up a gear and long term, having Bruno taking the creative responsibility off Pogbas shoulders will be vital as he was struggling with the pressure. Likewise, Rashford and Martial struggled with the pressure when one of them was absent.

We relied on Pereira, James and Lingard far, far too much on the first half of the season. Ole himself said this season would be an experiment to see which players were capable of playing for United and I think he's got his answer. I'm expecting him to be ruthless this Summer. Time to continue the rebuild and get rid of the players clearly not fit to wear the shirt. Then we'll be able to rotate the squad a bit more next year. The addition of Sancho alone will be massive for us (if we get him) as that will allow us to rotate Rashford/Martial/Greenwood.

 

[Greck]

I know. But it's a reasonable question to ask, surely.

If we had ended the season on an undeniable low note - not so much. But as things stand, Ole pretty much did the job: brought in the right reinforcement in Bruno, integrated Pogba in a team that actually looks funcional for the most part, turned things around generally, finished third (top of the post-restart table and whatnot) - and yeah, not too shabby at all.

In short - if the manager has done reasonably well and is, as per himself and his employers, in the middle of a "process" (as LVG would say), it doesn't make sense to replace him unless someone who is an obvious and undeniable upgrade is available.

What does make sense is to let him continue said "process", given that it seems to involve recruiting the likes of Sancho, and then see how things turn out next season. If he doesn't build on what he's done so far - by all means, demand his arse (or head - or both) on a plate, rejoice in the fact that you were right to doubt him all along, and so forth. But here and now it really doesn't make much sense to go in for replacing him - and if you do, you really need to answer that question (who's the successor?), and explain why your candidate would be an undeniably better choice.

The bolded is the problem. We'll just end up in circles on who is an obvious and deniable upgrade. Now if you were Woodward, I'd be spamming you email, fax, telephone and pigeon carrier on who we should transition to. Secondly, have no interest in waiting for Ole to stutter next season so I can bask in my "being right to doubt him all along". That's the point in wanting a transition at the right time. No interest in rooting for us to take a step back, well maybe except when Jose failed, and still do to this day because of his cult really rubbed it in while he was here.

 

[dirkey]

In response to your rather dismissive comments:

This is a public forum, if you wish people to keep opinions to themselves, maybe consider another form of social communication rather than a public forum.

We almost were 5th, it was close. We still lack quality, even OGS states the need to add to the squad.

If a good season is because you feel more optimistic, then fine. Am I more optimistic than last season, I would say yes, marginally. But judgements made to Jose ' (who finished second with all the dross and problems that were going on btw.... ) do not fill me with feelings of elation. Jose got much wrong, and had to go. OGS started brightly, faded drastically, had a very average period, and ended a strange season (due to CoVid) relatively strongly, although I still question our form against better teams.

If you ask me where I think we will finish next season, with all things as they are , I would probably say what I stated at the beginning of this season, that we will be competing to finish in the top four. I expect us to be above Leicester, Sheff Utd and Wolves, so I do not see this as some fantastic achievement. Maybe that's asking too much from a United fan nowadays. This is exactly what happened to Arsenal, celebrating top four finishes, great young players coming through, and the regular flashes of inspiration from good players. That's all great, I enjoy that to an extent.. but are we going to win something? Under OGS? Have I seen that in this team? In him?

Nope, not quite yet. It may happen, but we have had a good few years of being way off the pace of the very, very top clubs. Other top clubs change managers etc, and still retain an element of being competitive. We now 'aim' to finish in the top four.

How is that successful?

We were the 2nd best team in England against the top 6. 4 points better off than City.

It's our form against the poorer sides was a worry. Now we have the class to break them down.

 

[RedSky]

I just checked a schedule again and it doesn't look any different at all of the one when we play in Europe with 3-4 days of average gap between matches.

Since the season started up again we've played 11 matches in 37 days.

Last season however, at the same point in the season we were in the CL and FA Cup. 11 matches were being played every 50+ days. I checked the fixtures at the start of February to the end of the season. It's a pretty big difference.

 

[AshRK]

Not sure where to post this

But now many have changed the narrative to we always had a top squad and what Ole did was bare minimum.

 

[lysglimt]

In terms of posisi

I said so months ago, when things began to turn properly ugly. It's never been about "criticism" or "skepticism" with that lot. It's been nasty words and insults, petty shite that doesn't belong anywhere, and certainly not on a United forum when the current manager is a man who lives and breathes United.

And - for the record - I have never been "Ole in" staunchly and implicitly. I was skeptical about Woodward giving him the job permanently and said so at the time.

I have been pro-OGS since day 1 - but I have no problem with 90% of the People who wanted him fired. However its hard to take any person seriously if they still want the manager fired the day after he took us to Third Place in the league, after a run of 9 wins and 5 draws in the last 14 - where we have scored a total of 30 goals - and when we are in the quarter finals of the Europa League

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Secondly, have no interest in waiting for Ole to stutter next season so I can bask in my "being right to doubt him all along".

Alright - that too is fair enough, and I apologize for wording it like so.

But the point is - I suppose - that if Ole does indeed stutter next season (after having brought in new reinforcements that, as such, make sense - say, Sancho, we're all hoping for him I'm sure), then the next guy (whoever he is, whenever he comes in) won't have to start another massive rebuild: what will happen, presumably, is that we find out that Ole simply isn't capable of turning a good enough or at least very promising squad into proper challengers. And so he has to go - but he will leave a good enough or at least very promising squad behind.

Bottom line: he's on his way to assembling a good enough (or at least very promising) squad. That in itself is something - a big something, in fact. Unless he starts bringing in highly questionable new recruits, and - yes, again - in the absence of any obvious candidate to replace him, that will have to do for the time being.

Final point: Ole knows what he has to do, ultimately. He knows that better than any fan on here. He can't stutter too much. He has to improve all the time - and in the end, the "process" has to yield results of the sort he achieved as a player under a certain manager. He knows this - it's part and parcel of the premise for him sitting there in the stands watching his increasingly infamous monitor/screen/mounted Ipad or whatever the feck it is.