Even if such an asinine scenario were to exists, you have no idea what kind of owners we'd have after that. You have no idea how worse that will make our ability to purchase players, hire top managers, and have influence in TV rights. Wishing for that to happen just to make a point is beyond idiocy and you should consider mental help for even considering it. I'd even argue that it is you who doesn't care about this club. Have a word with yourself.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Shall I go through Chelsea? Madrid? Barcelona? Bayern? PSG? Dortmund? Sevilla? Any other consistently successful or challenging club? EDIT: Even City went on a merry go round who went from an already successful manager to Pep.
Please, other than Ferguson with United, which started in the 80s, enlighten me which successful clubs stuck with failing managers and then became dominant?
Would that be the failing Pochettino at Spurs? The one who just masterminded a 7-2 home defeat?
You have to be blind to not see the Glazers are the reason we are here. They sucking money out of the club. They could have sucked money out of the club and have UTD be successful if they weren't so incompetent. If a business starts falling, the owners are the ones responsible.
But the solution isn't as easy as selling the club. UTD is so big, it's gonna cost 3 billion to buy it. The only people who are willing to spend that kinda money are the Saudi's. So either Glazers or human rights abusers.
The situation can be fixed with the Glazers if they actually started caring about the long-term future club and changed the club structure. Keep Woodward away from the football side. Hire experienced DOF and experienced coach. Give them 250 million to restructure the club. But recent reports indicate they might not hire a DOF after all, seems nothing will change
Maybe i can called myself "shot on target hunter" because all i wanted tonight was only a shot on target
It never reached the target though it was block. And typical of the season to be honest - it was literally harder to hit that block than to net it and still he went for the block
I'm sure in your head you think you're making a point, but you're really not.
The same can be said about the hiring of manager after manager though? Sacking 5 managers in 6 years is really helping to make the Manchester United Manager's job appealing, isn't it?
United could hire Klopp tomorrow and his reign would ultimately end the same way as the previous 4 managers as the same parasitic owners are there, the same clueless CEO is there also. It really is as simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with the other clubs you mention, they're irrelevant as far as I am concerned, they don't have the Glazers in charge.
Glazers and Woodward have their share of blame too and they'd be long gone if I were making decisions. HOWEVER. Their mistakes does NOT absolve Ole of blame.
And before you or anyone goes there, the senior players have their share of the blame too. HOWEVER. They are supposed to be managed by a manager and Ole is clearly not doing that well. Like fecking hell, I'm not expecting top Champions League level football here, but a manager, despite the circumstances, should be able to get some level of coherent football. No excuses. Games like this aren't a one off anymore. It's become the norm.
Feels like a matter of when than if at this point. Hope that a 4th manager failing under his watch will mean the end for Woodward too but I'm not holding my breath.
Are you stupid? Read the quoted posts again - BigBenFoster’s mention of us getting relegated was clearly tongue-in-cheek. No one is wishing that to happen.
Christ on a bike.
Yet, other clubs seem to hire the best of the business despite their managerial merry go round. And many of those clubs have even more demanding fans than we do. So no, the same could not be said.
If United hired Klopp, we'd sure as feck be performing better than we currently are. Liverpool was a sack of shit when he took over. And do you really think the Glazers are the only greedy owners in football? They're not that unique, sorry to break it to you. FSG, Levy, and any club that isn't owned by Arabs or are Barca/Madrid/Bayern have to have limits on spending and compromise on not getting the best talent.
Levy, FSG and all the other clubs you mention here all have good structures in terms of their sporting directors and recruitment policies. United under Ed have been like a kid playing FIFA when it comes to transfers and ultimately, the hiring and firing of managers.
Hiring a new manager will not fix anything with the Glazers in charge.
I'm a stable genius bitch
True, but persisting with Ole is adding fuel to the fire. He is utterly clueless and is not going to become magically better tactically and in implementing a style of play no matter what kind of time he is given.
Ole is working hard on that. It's a 3 year project after all
They only seem that way now because they actually had success. I doubt you were complimenting their structure when they both were mediocre while we were dicking them.
You, like any of us, have no idea how a new manager will do. Until you see them work with the club, how can anyone tell? But we have seen Ole with the club for 10 months. We are playing significantly worse and having worse results. That's pretty damn obvious if you have eyes. But let's humor you and say no new manager will fix anything. How, with that same logic, can you then say that Ole will have success?
We'll win against Newcastle and things will start to look better chill.
Ole brought proven EPL players on crazy fees. You don't need a DOF for that
By the way, Jon...
And judging by my correspondence with him, I'd say he's serious. So now you're both mean AND wrong. You should owe me money or something.
Feck off with your top red bollox.
The club, thanks to Mourinho, was a mess when Ole took over, he's had less than a year to try and sort it out, and it takes time, so chill your knickers.
To be fair though most United fans I know also laugh at Liverpool even when they are winning everything so...
Klopp wasn't an instant success either (no I'm not saying Solskjaer is Klopp by the way he'd have to win us everything there is to win before making such a comparison) - but when my friend who's of the laughable stock started yelling for his head (as so many Liverpool supporters did back then) I still told him he was a total eejit - because you just can't judge any manager that early on no matter what. Also - much like the situation we're in now - the lack of immediate results during his first months obviously wasn't down to Jürgen's decisions it was just the best you could hope for given their situation. He got them looking a good side before Christmas though - and I suspect Ole will need to get some quality in during the January window (something they should have done this summer) before we look a proper decent side again.
Oh and I don't agree with those who says finishing 8th or even 7th or lower is acceptable for us. This isn't the United we used to be and expectations needs a reality check during this transition - there will be pain and a lot of it all true it is unavoidable no matter who's in charge - but the squad we currently have are still good enough to battle for a top-four and personally I would only settle for top-six if I at least see signs towards the end of this campaign that this is where we'll be in 2020 - solidified so even.
My biggest problem with Ole is he never has a plan B, he will always make like for like changes and try to same the same way. We stick to aimless crosses into the likes of Rashford and Greenwood who 99 times out of 100 aren't going to beat most CBs in the air.
Klopp's initial troubles weren't nearly as bad as ours in terms of results. And even then, was he not getting his team to play something that resembles attacking football? And although we laugh at Liverpool fans calling for Klopp's head, were we not anticipating his sacking here? I remember the Klopp the Flopp times.To be fair though most United fans I know also laugh at Liverpool even when they are winning everything so...
Klopp wasn't an instant success either (no I'm not saying Solskjaer is Klopp by the way he'd have to win us everything there is to win before making such a comparison) - but when my friend who's of the laughable stock started yelling for his head (as so many Liverpool supporters did back then) I still told him he was a total eejit - because you just can't judge any manager that early on no matter what. Also - much like the situation we're in now - the lack of immediate results during his first months obviously wasn't down to Jürgen's decisions it was just the best you could hope for given their situation. He got them looking a good side before Christmas though - and I suspect Ole will need to get some quality in during the January window (something they should have done this summer) before we look a stable side again.
Oh and I don't agree with those who says finishing 8th or even 7th or lower is acceptable for us. This isn't the United we used to be and expectations needs a reality check during this transition - there will be pain and a lot of it all true it is unavoidable no matter who's in charge - but the squad we currently have are still good enough to battle for a top-four and personally I would only settle for top-six if I at least see signs towards the end of this campaign that this is where we'll be in 2020 - solidified so even.
The fact is that when you observe other successful clubs, they don't put up with failure for long, and will easily sack managers and keep repeating the process until they get it right. Look, if it's just a matter of poor results, but we play some decent football, I'd still be Ole in. But we're not even playing football at all. Shit, we're sitting back against AZ and hoping to hit on the counter?*
*supposedly according to IG
Ah, blame mourinho if you're too shit to have 1 shot on goal against the mighty alzkaamr... aklmar... az alkzarr?
Sure let's hire another manager only for Ed to completely balls up every attempt at recruitment again. The cycle will again repeat itself and there will be another manager after that only for the cycle to once again repeat itself. Because that makes perfect sense doesn't it? I am only going off the past 6 years experience to come to this conclusion.
Give Ole the time he needs. He has had one window for Christ's sake. The three players we have signed have been good but it's clear to anyone with a bit of sense that those 3 weren't enough. I don't believe for one moment that Ole only wanted to bring in 3 players. Whilst I know we're not working with unlimited funds, we're supposedly the richest team in the world. Whose fault is that? Not Ole's again.
Have a bit of faith instead of calling for manager's heads every time the wind changes. We will not get anywhere as a club with that kind of mentality, because you know we've done this 3 times already now and it's not helped. That's all I care to say on it.
The failure in your logic is that you believe there's only one source of the problem. This means that either the players are perfect of the manager is perfect or the owner/leadership is perfect (and by perfect I mean not a problem).
First off, you don't know the true extent of the influence that Ed has on transfers. But I too hold him accountable as I do the Glazers. That doesn't absolve Ole of his portion of blame in this. He's still a manager. He's been here 10 months. He's had a full summer already. He's not teaching rocket science. It's football. It don't take 10 months to play decent football, make decent passes, not make childishly stupid decisions that professionals shouldn't make. And I get that some senior players are a big problem, but guess what. He can choose who starts, who sits on the bench, and who gets subbed in. He with his staff can influence training and tactics. He can manage players when they are not behaving to a top standard. Ed isn't in the locker room or training pitches doing that. Ed's not the locker room addressing strategy and tactics. So how can anyone absolve the manager of this? Be honest here, if you saw this going on at another club, would you objectively say they need to give them more time?
By the way, I used to be a late adopter to wanting managers sacked for Moyes, LVG, and Mourinho. I've learned my lesson. I'm an early adopter now.
1 window and 10 mths and you can't coach a win in 10 away game, or 1 shot on goal against alkmaar?
Take a step back, and rethink on that. The excuse for Ole20 is nauseating.
I'll elaborate further by saying a large portion of the blame goes to Woodward and ultimately the Glazers and the players not giving a feck for the most part. Also by adopting a culture of constantly going through managers gives the impression that the players can do whatever the feck they want and not be held accountable.
That's a fair point but is that 100% totally on Ole? is it buggery.
Sure, let's blame Jose, Ed, Glazer for that.
No. I'm not talking about our slide to mediocrity, just the point that all our young and hungry pashyun youngster can't manage a shot on target agains Alkmar
This logic fails so hard, my head hurts. Like dude...
Should have been sacked after we got battered 4-0 by Everton.
Actually Liverpool was really bad during that time (not as bad as we've been for the past fourteen months though). I only remember this because of my friends - whom I argued with almost as hard as I argue with you guys. Like you said they called him Jürgen Flopp for feck's sake
and I believe they finished mid-table. From autumn 2015 all the way to May he couldn't get them playing that much better than Rodgers did during his decline - and then they also started weak the next season before suddenly picking up pace after the first couple of rounds (not as weak as Van Gaal though and he never got them going properly). I'm not making this up - there was a meltdown a lot of people wanted him out prior to his second season and some even remained unconvinced after he got them back into the top-four. Imagine if they'd had their way how happy we'd be today As for other successful clubs that varies a lot and it has to do with culture more so than pragmatism I believe. In England and Germany for instance most clubs prefer to be somewhat lenient - giving them a fair shot (within reason of course) and reserving judgement until the managers have established their vision before deciding - but in Spain for instance they're way less patient and seek quick fixes - even firing managers who actually delivers at times because they're simply down on their luck. I won't get into what's best to be honest - because you have successful examples from both camps so truth be told I just don't know.
AZ was a reserve's game by the way in a competition we're clearly not prioritizing. That being said it was still a truly sad spectacle - I fell asleep midway through it so trust me I have no objections there.
This helps. The last thing I want is a bought title. I want a team built from the ground up. Is Ole the right man to do that? Surely we can’t tell after one month with the youngsters who will be the backbone of the squad in years to come. I’m voting keep until next summer, then we’ll see where we are.
I spent 2 years telling Liverpool supporting mates to calm down, that they had signed a great manager and he would eventually come good.To be fair though most United fans I know also laugh at Liverpool even when they are winning everything so...
Klopp wasn't an instant success either (no I'm not saying Solskjaer is Klopp by the way he'd have to win us everything there is to win before making such a comparison) - but when my friend who's of the laughable stock started yelling for his head (as so many Liverpool supporters did back then) I still told him he was a total eejit - because you just can't judge any manager that early on no matter what. Also - much like the situation we're in now - the lack of immediate results during his first months obviously wasn't down to Jürgen's decisions it was just the best you could hope for given their situation. He got them looking a good side before Christmas though - and I suspect Ole will need to get some quality in during the January window (something they should have done this summer) before we look a proper decent side again.
Oh and I don't agree with those who says finishing 8th or even 7th or lower is acceptable for us. This isn't the United we used to be and expectations needs a reality check during this transition - there will be pain and a lot of it all true it is unavoidable no matter who's in charge - but the squad we currently have are still good enough to battle for a top-four and personally I would only settle for top-six if I at least see signs towards the end of this campaign that this is where we'll be in 2020 - solidified so even.
They were not happy with him for a long long time. People on here seem to want to gloss over that. And pretend the progress and change was obvious from the start. They're being disingenuous.
Yes, the famously inept managers Louis van Gaal and José Mourinho, who were only swimming in trophies at the other clubs they've been at. Must've been just dumb luck.
When even the best fail it says a lot about how impossible it is to succeed here under the current ownership.
I have my frustrations from many PL games this season. So while we switched it up a lot against AZ, the performance and result are consistent with our poor form as opposed to the old days where it happened to be a boring performance in a sea of ass wrecking success.Actually Liverpool was really bad during that time (not as bad as we've been for the past fourteen months though). I only remember this because of my friends - whom I argued with almost as hard as I argue with you guys. Like you said they called him Jürgen Flopp for feck's sake
As for other successful clubs that varies a lot and it has to do with culture more so than pragmatism I believe. In England and Germany for instance most clubs prefer to be somewhat lenient - giving them a fair shot (within reason of course) and reserving judgement until the managers have established their vision before deciding - but in Spain for instance they're way less patient and seek quick fixes - even firing managers who actually delivers at times because they're simply down on their luck. I won't get into what's best to be honest - because you have successful examples from both camps so truth be told I just don't know.
AZ was a reserve's game by the way in a competition we're clearly not prioritizing. That being said it was still a truly sad spectacle - I fell asleep midway through it so trust me I have no objections there.
I'm not referring to their history, as they were clearly successful. I'm referring to their stints with United. Inept was probably strong word to describe all of them, but I had Moyes in my head as I was typing that. LVG and Mourinho were clearly past it though. At least with LVG of the three, we could see what they were trying to do and some semblance of a footballing strategy. We don't even have that now.
The best was technically SAF, and he didn't fail. Just to counter your assertion there.
Why didn't Liverpool do better before Klopp? With the exception of the 13/14 season the were mostly a hot mess.
The wonderful recruitment team was signing players like Benteke, Lambert, Balotelli before Klopp took over. Before someone posts about Michael Edwards, I know about his role change and everything but he was part of famous transfer committee.
When you hire better manager everything looks good.
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