Fergie was also a once in a lifetime manager. It’s just unrealistic to judge any manager based on his tenure.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Haven't seen a manager recover from this in recent history. I'd buy progress if we were good but inconsistent, that's what I thought would happen this season anyway, but we're terrible most of the time, I don't see any signs of progress.
I don't know if sacking him will solve anything, but right now he's failing in stopping the decline big time.
I don't know if sacking him will solve anything, but right now he's failing in stopping the decline big time.
Your correct but it wasn’t the point I was making, I was saying we’ve had tougher times and stuck by a manager who had a plan with a future.
But those tough times were the 80s and that manager we stuck by was a once in a lifetime kind of guy. Put any other manager in his position and the chances of doing that 20 run of success is astronomically low, let alone a low profile manager from Norway.
You just have to keep looking over at Chelsea to see that, however naive and inexperienced Lampard is, he's doing a miles better job than Ole, despite zero opportunity to change things in his first summer given the transfer ban.
We've been on a steadily downward trend for over six years. A few highs here and there, but with every manager we've been worse off than when they started, with the exception of van Gaal who, in fairness, took over after a complete dumpster fire of a manager and actually won a trophy right before getting the boot. How many world class managers do we need to hire and sack before we realize that there's a much bigger problem at the club?
I'd gladly see us relegated if it meant the Glazers finally decided to cut their losses and sell the club, which will mean that Woodward has to go with them. We're never getting to the heights we want to be at if they're in charge, so in the long term any approach that gets those feckers out is what's right for me. In the mean time I'm sticking with complete and utter indifference. I don't have it in my to do more. Expectations will remain at zero as long as Woodward is in charge of the operation.
I don’t know, here’s a thought though. Maybe it’s our players who are the problem?
In fairness to OgS, who’s lucky to still be in the job imo.
It’s unfair to judge Lamps & OgS’ current United form. The bounce under OgS was as historic as the decline.
Any comparison should wait till at least the New Year.
This is like the 3rd rebuild and we are still blaming the players. Maybe it’s just David DeGea as he’s the only player left!!!
He's lucky in some respect that they have had some talented youngsters on their books for some time but just haven't used them. In a way the transfer ban has helped them. Our youngsters aren't as good as people thought they were.
I have posted them - I just don't care to repeat myself at present because I don't have the time nor the energy. Make an effort if it's such a stretch for you imagining why so many supporters don't agree with you - and read back what they've said. The arguments are all presented across this thread and others - clear for anyone to see. It's not mine or anyone else's job to spoon-feed you - if you can't keep up with the opposition that's your responsibility - and if you're really curious as to why a majority of people in here are of another opinion than yourself then do some fecking research lazy boy.
I don't get paid doing this there's no reward in it for me whatsoever - so to demand I repeat myself over and over to everyone who wants him gone - which is a ludicrous amount of people mind you - is just plain unreasonable
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Oh I’m definitely blaming a lot of players, any that have been here longer than 2 months and cost over £50 million straight away, then add the likes of Lingard, jones, shaw. There would probably be less than 8 with a job still if I was the owner and if mr pogba and his mate had the gall to come asking me for a pay rise after the 3 and a bit years of shite he’s served I’d have them renditioned somewhere being the billionaire I am in this scenario.
Time for him to go./ Absolutely useless.
Becoming increasingly evident Ole will not be the manager to return United to the top, I just don't think he is in anyway tactically good enough.
He is, however, still the manager to see us through the ongoing and still heavily needed clear out and recruitment.
He is, however, still the manager to see us through the ongoing and still heavily needed clear out and recruitment.
What do you think are acceptable aims for him to see out the season? How long will the clear out take, 2-3 years? I shudder to think where we will be at that point.
It is going to take a couple of years at minimum I expect.
I don't have the answers, I don't think anyone does anymore, but I don't think we can keep sacking managers. What's the point?
Again the most important point should be the direction , give ole all the time if we had a direction. He has been our manager for 8 months now and I swear literally no one can tell you our style of play/tactics because we don't have one . Arsenal are a joke but at least they hammer terrible teams at home but we score 0-1 goal every game
It's hard getting a sense of any direction unless you have all the facts - something you'll never have as long as you're just observing from the outside. All you can do is see what's been done so far - and what's planned in our immediate future. We're actually best in the league defensively - that's a huge step up from last season - and also our morale has definitely improved too as has our level of fitness and team cohesion. We are trying to play a high pressing game - being positive again unlike what we've seen the latter years - however we lack creativity and we simply can't convert so it's sort of a wasted effort. Which I believe most people realize is due to the fact that we never reinforced our offense during the previous transfer window - something Ole clearly wanted prior to this summer as he said so himself. That'll be done in January though I'm pretty sure - so for now I at least choose to remain patient and just suck it up.
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Sadly he has to go. There would appear to be very little in the way of tactical awareness, leadership or change that's required to turn results around. Players who were, for a while playing okay seem to be loosing confidence and look lost as to what system the coach is asking them to play. Unfortunately the debacle of who takes the penalties spoke volumes as to Ole's management and leadership capabilities and his response after the game was a real eye opener, sadly the writing was very clearly on the wall. I always thought the rush to give him a permanent contract was unnecessary as there was no pressure to appoint him regardless of early results and the impending January transfer window, and I believe it has proven to be another bad decision by "Ed Woodentop". Could it be the Spurs situation is throwing up a possible way forward ??????
I'm split on this issue because there's little chance the board appoints the right manager after sacking Ole -- especially if the Allegri rumors are to be believed, and Ole's signings have arguably been great so far.
However, I don't believe Ole is the manager who will get us to challenge the for the title again. He's simply nowhere near the level of Pep and Klopp and it's evident when you watch United matches. The passing is horrendous and we get dispossessed more than any other Premier League team. His substitutions are often poor and come extremely late in the game. He's also very slow to tactically respond to opposition goals in general. There is no sense of tactical identity -- we're still relying on counter attacks like we were under Mou. Even if our squad is average, these are coaching failures on his part.
At this point, we might as well let him go and hope the board gets someone like Poch who can actually be trusted for a several year rebuild.
However, I don't believe Ole is the manager who will get us to challenge the for the title again. He's simply nowhere near the level of Pep and Klopp and it's evident when you watch United matches. The passing is horrendous and we get dispossessed more than any other Premier League team. His substitutions are often poor and come extremely late in the game. He's also very slow to tactically respond to opposition goals in general. There is no sense of tactical identity -- we're still relying on counter attacks like we were under Mou. Even if our squad is average, these are coaching failures on his part.
At this point, we might as well let him go and hope the board gets someone like Poch who can actually be trusted for a several year rebuild.
The whole we are best in the league defensively thing is just a farce . We have conceded 7 which is the same as man city who seem to have a defensive crisis and 2 more than liverpool. As a big team it is hardly a hard thing to have a good defensive record if you are not scoring at all . Bottom half clubs when they play us aren't exactly lining up to put 5 pass us , they are happy with a point and hope for a moment of madness from our defence . The less said about our attack the better . As I said if I asked you right now to tell me our starting 11 on Sunday you would have a huge struggle . On the other hand I can tell you that the game will be 0-0 , 1-0, 0-1 or 1-1
Any manager that can leave a squad as woefully short as Ole has left us needs to be out of the job asap. No idea how Woody and Ole thought we had enough coming into this season.
He's got to go after Newcastle especially if we dont win which given our current play we wont. He's got to ASAP, we are a sinking ship.
He's not doing any better at this point than most people here would be doing if they managed United.
We all got this one wrong. Its not fair to just blame the board. I remember when we were all like theres gonna be riots if Ole isnt hired. Lets be honest about that, that was the mood.
I remember after PSG, Gary Neville asked him how much money he wants and where does he want his statue.
We all got it so horribly wrong, time to admit it and move on.
He's not doing any better at this point than most people here would be doing if they managed United.
We all got this one wrong. Its not fair to just blame the board. I remember when we were all like theres gonna be riots if Ole isnt hired. Lets be honest about that, that was the mood.
I remember after PSG, Gary Neville asked him how much money he wants and where does he want his statue.
We all got it so horribly wrong, time to admit it and move on.
I always enjoy the way Spurs play. They are one of the top sides in the world atm and he has done it on a budget. I’d be more than happy with him as our manager. I’m guessing you don’t watch much football r
I could name about another 100 or so managers better than Ole too so your point is void either way. We need better and deserve better.
We’re banging our head against the wall with some United fans. I know people who hated Mourinho when we won trophies yet won’t criticize Ole, Phelan etc...
They don’t seem to realise you actually need talent. We need someone who is super smart, super conscientious and a forward thinker.
Fergie was that guy, always moving with the times and implementing new styles of play.
The whole backroom coaches need changing and the culture ripping up as you say. It’s dated and quite frankly an embarrassment with the old boys club in charge.
How we went from having top international coaches for the time in Maulensteen and Queiroz to this bang average bunch of wannabes in less than 10 years - despite a growth in profits the mind boggles.
What's the score? I haven't voted..
This thread is very similar one to José thread! Each bad or average result the poll result changes. It seems that 4 managers on - we are still thinking the issue is really the manager? One or two or three but 4 in a row!
Looking at goals against alone to determine how good the defense is - is oversimplifying things in my opinion. You have to see the number of chances against and also the quality of those chances to get a better picture - and we're leading that chart as of now (season still young though). And even if you won't agree we're the best - surely you see improvement from last year of misery? Or would you bring back Young, Rojo, Smalling and Jones as our main contributors backfield thinking we'd look the same?
As for our starting lineup: De Gea, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelöf , Shaw, James, Pogba, McTominay, Lingard, Martial and Rashford - with our best backups being Young, Tuanzebe, Pereira and Greenwood. I can't disagree with your scoring prediction though - because as that previous lineup so desperately tells we're miserably short on quality in that final third. We lack creativity and a few players who can actually hit the net (seriously a lot of the chances we've wasted this seasons were as clear-cut as they come I'm pretty sure even I would have converted some of them).
The annoying part about it is how long it takes for some people to see that a manager is not going to make it here, Moyes should’ve been sacked in October, so does Ole.
It is all a matter of perspective, compared with SAF Jose was a failure, compared with Ole and Moyes he has been an absolute success.
At the end of the day:
Jose>LvG>Moyes>Ole
The best manager out of the four got the best results, the worst manager out of the four is getting the worst results, what a surprise.
Changed my vote from sack to sack again
I can understand people's frustrations and anger and I am angry too, but Ole isn't the issue. He needs at least another 3-4 windows before we should sack him.
We'll be in League One at that rate
It depends on how many players we can recruit each window.
If we can get in 5-6 new players - 4 starting squad players (2 CM, a RW, ST), we can maybe clear out 1-3 players (don’t want a thin squad like this year).
Then next year, if we just recruit replacements for players that aren’t good enough, and clear out those, we can be a very good squad in two years time (if the manager and coaches are good enough)
Sack. I dont even watch our matches anymore. Fickle fair weather fan perhps but it's just the facts. We are boring, pass around aimlessly, shocking bench, I completely lost all hope in getting a good result on any given match so I don't bother to put my heart through the stress. I just check the score for the inevitable dropped points.
He started so well. I don't know why they made it permanent as early as they did. No style to speak of, no direction, no hope. The only question for me is when and who will replace him.
He started so well. I don't know why they made it permanent as early as they did. No style to speak of, no direction, no hope. The only question for me is when and who will replace him.
SAF used 7 years to rebuild his squad, no point to change 4 managers in 7 years
Is this as sarcastic post?
If there was a poll on whether Woodward should go feck himself it would be 99% absolutely and 1% Eboue. If there was a vote on whether we should hire a competent DoF and grant him the commensurate authority it would be the same. And if there was a vote on whether you'd want to swap the Glazer cnuts for an individual or group interested in footballing success (not a PR project for murderers I might add) that would be the same. We're all in agreement there. At least with Ole there is a bit of a discussion
What are you on about?
Yes the manager atm is a huge issue. Not the ONLY issue, but he's a huge issue.
Just as Moyes and the others were an issue.
We've hired 4 poor managers. Liverpool weren't going anywhere until they hired Klopp.
Our defense is made to look better than it actually is because middling teams don't even bother to attack us at all because they know we can't score unless we counter or get a penalty.Looking at goals against alone to determine how good the defense is - is oversimplifying things in my opinion. You have to see the number of chances against and also the quality of those chances to get a better picture - and we're leading that chart as of now (season still young though). And even if you won't agree we're the best - surely you see improvement from last year of misery? Or would you bring back Young, Rojo, Smalling and Jones as our main contributors backfield thinking we'd look the same?
As for our starting lineup: De Gea, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelöf , Shaw, James, Pogba, McTominay, Lingard, Martial and Rashford - with our best backups being Young, Tuanzebe, Pereira and Greenwood. I can't disagree with your scoring prediction though - because as that previous lineup so desperately tells we're miserably short on quality in that final third. We lack creativity and a few players who can actually hit the net (seriously a lot of the chances we've wasted this seasons were as clear-cut as they come I'm pretty sure even I would have converted some of them).
There's a reason why stats analysts are paid top dollars for their analysis instead of the rubbish conclusion some idiots on Twitter posts and people like you who lap it all up.
Wow the hostility. Did someone not hug you enough - or too much maybe? Oh and wouldn't it be amusing beyond belief if that's exactly how I make my top dollars?
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